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Question: Who is your preferred candidate to ultimately WIN the presidency?
Joe Biden - 11 (10.2%)
Michael Bloomberg - 9 (8.3%)
Cory Booker - 1 (0.9%)
Pete Buttigieg - 6 (5.6%)
Julian Castro - 1 (0.9%)
John Delaney - 1 (0.9%)
Tulsi Gabbard - 11 (10.2%)
Kirsten Gillibrand - 1 (0.9%)
Kamala Harris - 6 (5.6%)
Amy Klobuchar - 1 (0.9%)
Beto O'Rourke - 2 (1.9%)
Bernie Sanders - 31 (28.7%)
Elizabeth Warren - 7 (6.5%)
Andrew Yang - 20 (18.5%)
Total Voters: 64

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 »
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Author Topic: 2020 Democrats  (Read 7386 times)
suchmoon
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January 26, 2020, 06:00:26 PM
 #261

I just chked what write-in candidates are...

MF what freaking non-sense... Dems deserve to lose if they act in such an incoherent fashion...

Bernie will never win, no one likes to hear the truth and he makes ppl swallow it...

There needs to be a NOTA (None of the Above) for every election. This would help get a better sense of the electorate.

There already is, it's called not voting.

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January 26, 2020, 06:07:25 PM
Merited by mayo2u (1)
 #262

I just chked what write-in candidates are...

MF what freaking non-sense... Dems deserve to lose if they act in such an incoherent fashion...

Bernie will never win, no one likes to hear the truth and he makes ppl swallow it...

There needs to be a NOTA (None of the Above) for every election. This would help get a better sense of the electorate.

There already is, it's called not voting.

No it's different... NOTA actually signifies that the ppl chose to reach the booth and did not approve of the current candidates.
In my college elections it so happened that once the winning margin was far lesser than the NOTA votes, next time the groups started taking voters more seriously and took their feedback in their campaigns and candidates... But i guess the US has a far more inclusive primary.

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January 26, 2020, 06:51:45 PM
 #263

I just chked what write-in candidates are...

MF what freaking non-sense... Dems deserve to lose if they act in such an incoherent fashion...

Bernie will never win, no one likes to hear the truth and he makes ppl swallow it...

There needs to be a NOTA (None of the Above) for every election. This would help get a better sense of the electorate.

There already is, it's called not voting.

If a significant portion of the population doesn't vote then many reasons can be ascribed to explain why people don't vote: the people are content with how things are; they like both candidates, etc... However, if one shows up at the voting booth and selects NOTA then the ambiguity is gone. 
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January 26, 2020, 07:04:05 PM
 #264

Yeah, they must not have been paying attention in high school the day they taught the part of the constitution that deemed all write-ins be counted towards Trump's vote totals.

If they wrote in Bernie, they were essentially choosing not to vote for Clinton, which directly benefited Trump.

So yeah, the Bernie write-ins definitely gave Trump a boost.
What? This makes no sense.

They were choosing not to vote for Clinton or Trump by writing in Bernie.  They were also choosing not to vote for Johnson, Stein, or any other candidate who was on the ballot.  This is how delusional Hillary people are.  They think everyone's vote is "owed" to Hillary by default when we could just as easily say they helped Hillary by writing in Bernie instead of voting for Trump.  Statistically speaking, in states where Trump won, people, by default, would have been slightly more likely to vote for Trump. 


Yeah, they must not have been paying attention in high school the day they taught the part of the constitution that deemed all write-ins be counted towards Trump's vote totals.

They definitely didn't pay attention in school, math classes in particular and anything related to stats, logic, or common sense, as TwitchySeal pointed out.

"Busters" category also overlaps significantly with people who don't vote in primaries and expect someone else to do it for them. The turnout is so abysmally low that if 31%+16% = 47% of all Bernie supporters showed up at the primaries he'd get the nomination in a landslide.

Maybe they don't vote in primaries because they aren't members of a party and disagree with both parties?  Many states have closed primaries meaning you have to register as a party member to vote in the primary.

Also the democratic primary is not as simple as you make it seem.  The person who gets the most votes isn't necessarily the winner.  There are tons of weird rules about who gets delegates.  They aren't just proportional to the votes in each primary. Also, if no one gets 50% of the delegates, the superdelegates pick the nominee. 

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January 26, 2020, 07:17:32 PM
 #265

I just chked what write-in candidates are...

MF what freaking non-sense... Dems deserve to lose if they act in such an incoherent fashion...

Bernie will never win, no one likes to hear the truth and he makes ppl swallow it...

There needs to be a NOTA (None of the Above) for every election. This would help get a better sense of the electorate.

There already is, it's called not voting.

If a significant portion of the population doesn't vote then many reasons can be ascribed to explain why people don't vote: the people are content with how things are; they like both candidates, etc... However, if one shows up at the voting booth and selects NOTA then the ambiguity is gone.  

They just write in someone else's name.

In 2016 the democrats that didn't like Clinton wrote down Jill Stein (Or Bernie).  The Republicans that didn't like Trump wrote down Gary Johnson.



I would discourage anyone from voting this way in 2020.  Unless you like/dislike both candidates completely equally, you should vote for either the Democratic or Republican nominee.  A vote for a third party is half a vote for the nominee you prefer less.




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January 26, 2020, 08:54:34 PM
 #266

Maybe they don't vote in primaries because they aren't members of a party and disagree with both parties?  Many states have closed primaries meaning you have to register as a party member to vote in the primary.

Exactly what I'm talking about. They don't vote in primaries but then throw a tantrum if their preferred candidate is not the nominee. If they want Bernie they should register and vote, it's as simple as that. This laziness and the rationalization thereof is quite ridiculous.

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January 26, 2020, 09:09:13 PM
 #267

Quote
I would discourage anyone from voting this way in 2020.  Unless you like/dislike both candidates completely equally, you should vote for either the Democratic or Republican nominee.  A vote for a third party is half a vote for the nominee you prefer less.





That may make sense in a state that's very close - think Florida or Michigan - but it doesn't in a state like NY or California.

There one can easily vote third party and not affect the outcome. AND, the better a third party does the more attention is paid to the party platform and future Dem or Rep candidates will pay attention to the issues raised.   
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January 26, 2020, 09:46:39 PM
 #268

Quote
I would discourage anyone from voting this way in 2020.  Unless you like/dislike both candidates completely equally, you should vote for either the Democratic or Republican nominee.  A vote for a third party is half a vote for the nominee you prefer less.





That may make sense in a state that's very close - think Florida or Michigan - but it doesn't in a state like NY or California.

There one can easily vote third party and not affect the outcome. AND, the better a third party does the more attention is paid to the party platform and future Dem or Rep candidates will pay attention to the issues raised.  

You're right technically for states like NY and CA, but I feel like it's still a bad mentality for the population to have as a whole in any state that could swing one way or the other in the next decade (which is most of them).  It's kind of natural to convince yourself your vote really doesn't matter because you already know what's going to happen.  But that results in states not swinging the way they would if people didn't have this mentality. when a party decides to spend less campaigning there the next cycle, and then the next...

I guess what I'm really saying is I think the electoral college is dumb.  (and I'm not just saying that because Trump won it but lost the popular and has been a total embarrassment since, I know I know, different campaign strategies would have different results)

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January 26, 2020, 10:04:18 PM
 #269


Also on a side note, the Bernie or Bust folks have returned. Nearly a 3rd of Sanders supporters can't commit to supporting the democratic nominee if Sanders doesn't win in addition to the 16% that wouldn't support the elected nominee.
This is probably because the DNC was tipping the scales against Sanders in the 2016 nomination cycle, and there is evidence they are doing the same this cycle. For example, in the last Democratic debate, Sanders denied telling Warren that a women could not win the presidency, Sanders denied this, and the very next question to Warren was praised in a way such that this is an accepted fact. Some are also speculating that the timing of sending the impeachment articles to the Senate was intended to harm Sanders by way of preventing him from being able to campaign immediately prior to the first primary. 


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January 26, 2020, 11:01:52 PM
 #270

This is probably because the DNC was tipping the scales against Sanders in the 2016 nomination cycle, and there is evidence they are doing the same this cycle. For example, in the last Democratic debate, Sanders denied telling Warren that a women could not win the presidency, Sanders denied this, and the very next question to Warren was praised in a way such that this is an accepted fact. Some are also speculating that the timing of sending the impeachment articles to the Senate was intended to harm Sanders by way of preventing him from being able to campaign immediately prior to the first primary.  

I agree the way the question came off as if they were straight up calling Bernie a liar, but I don't think it was intentional, and if it was, it's on the CNN moderator, not the DNC.

CNN:  "cnn reported and Warren confirmed that you said a woman couldn't win, why'd you say that?"
Bernie: "I didn't say that, lets move on"
CNN: "just be clear, you didn't say that?"
Bernie: "no!"
CNN: "Warren, what did you think when he said that?"


I think if the moderator got warren to actually say it, instead of "Warren confirmed to CNN", it would be fine because it would be more explicit.

CNN: "What did Bernie say"
and then
CNN: "What did you think when he said that"



Some are also speculating that the timing of sending the impeachment articles to the Senate was intended to harm Sanders by way of preventing him from being able to campaign immediately prior to the first primary.  

The DNC has done shady things and definitely fucked Bernie last year, but these DNC/Biden conspiracy theories seem to be red meat for anyone who reveled in the Clinton conspiracy theories and are looking for any opportunity to make Biden Hillary 2.0 and experience that same sweet victory all over again.

I'm not saying Bernie has nothing to complain about, he does, and so do his followers.  But he's also been fiercly independent from the Democratic party his whole life.  If he didn't have to register as a Democrat to run, he'd have an (I) next to his name, so getting the same love from the DNC as rank and file Biden is not something he's ever expected.


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January 27, 2020, 04:05:07 AM
 #271


Also on a side note, the Bernie or Bust folks have returned. Nearly a 3rd of Sanders supporters can't commit to supporting the democratic nominee if Sanders doesn't win in addition to the 16% that wouldn't support the elected nominee.
This is probably because the DNC was tipping the scales against Sanders in the 2016 nomination cycle, and there is evidence they are doing the same this cycle. For example, in the last Democratic debate, Sanders denied telling Warren that a women could not win the presidency, Sanders denied this, and the very next question to Warren was praised in a way such that this is an accepted fact. Some are also speculating that the timing of sending the impeachment articles to the Senate was intended to harm Sanders by way of preventing him from being able to campaign immediately prior to the first primary.  

I feel like that was more CNN being incompetent than anything else. The DNC removed the large influence of super delegates from the 2016 election by introducing new rules on super delegate voting. The media is doing the DNC's bidding for them by doing the best job they can to stop Sanders from winning the nomination.

The DNC has done shady things and definitely fucked Bernie last year, but these DNC/Biden conspiracy theories seem to be red meat for anyone who reveled in the Clinton conspiracy theories and are looking for any opportunity to make Biden Hillary 2.0 and experience that same sweet victory all over again.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's not a conspiracy with how badly the democratic establishment wants Joe Biden to win. There were reports that Obama would step in to stop Bernie from winning the nomination because he believes that the traditional democratic voter wouldn't adopt Bernie's hard left ideology.

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January 27, 2020, 06:06:23 AM
 #272

This is probably because the DNC was tipping the scales against Sanders in the 2016 nomination cycle, and there is evidence they are doing the same this cycle. For example, in the last Democratic debate, Sanders denied telling Warren that a women could not win the presidency, Sanders denied this, and the very next question to Warren was praised in a way such that this is an accepted fact. Some are also speculating that the timing of sending the impeachment articles to the Senate was intended to harm Sanders by way of preventing him from being able to campaign immediately prior to the first primary. 

I agree the way the question came off as if they were straight up calling Bernie a liar, but I don't think it was intentional, and if it was, it's on the CNN moderator, not the DNC.

<>


I think if the moderator got warren to actually say it, instead of "Warren confirmed to CNN", it would be fine because it would be more explicit.

<>
Warren's campaign did confirm it, but this is somewhat circular considering it is almost certain that Warren's campaign leaked the conversation in the first place. I would consider the facts to be disputed based on Sanders' denial, and the lack of evidence.

On the topic of this being the fault of the CNN moderator vs the DNC, I would consider them to be one and the same, along with other MSM outlets. This is based in part on the consistent messaging among MSM outlets, and Democrat elected officials, down to the specific wording of what they are saying. I would go as far to say that most MSM media outlets are violating campaign finance laws, although any attempt to investigate or prosecute these violations would probably be unconstitutional, and most campaign finance laws are probably also unconstitutional. 


Some are also speculating that the timing of sending the impeachment articles to the Senate was intended to harm Sanders by way of preventing him from being able to campaign immediately prior to the first primary. 

The DNC has done shady things and definitely fucked Bernie last year, but these DNC/Biden conspiracy theories seem to be red meat for anyone who reveled in the Clinton conspiracy theories and are looking for any opportunity to make Biden Hillary 2.0 and experience that same sweet victory all over again.

I'm not saying Bernie has nothing to complain about, he does, and so do his followers.  But he's also been fiercly independent from the Democratic party his whole life.  If he didn't have to register as a Democrat to run, he'd have an (I) next to his name, so getting the same love from the DNC as rank and file Biden is not something he's ever expected.

Sanders running as an independent would almost guarantee a republican win, and might even result in result in Trump running the table in all 50 states (I would say at least a solid 45 would be a lock for Trump, and 5 would be a tossup).

I really don't see what else Pelosi could have been trying to accomplish by delaying sending the impeachment articles. She said she wanted witnesses to be called, but the witnesses she wants were not even subpoenaed by her house, and if witnesses were to be called, Trump would have the opportunity to call witnesses, which would be damaging to Democrats.

A more important point is the status quo is the DNC will screw Sanders over, and out of the Nomination. If they can't show Sanders' supporters this is not the case in 2020, they will have a lot of unhappy voters on their hands.

DNC removed the large influence of super delegates from the 2016 election by introducing new rules on super delegate voting.
The new rules are that super delegates cannot vote in the first round of delegate voting. They can vote in the second and all subsequent rounds of votes, if they happen. This means someone with few, or no votes in the first round, could potentially be a serious contender in the second round.


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January 27, 2020, 07:24:53 PM
 #273

Booker is out and Bernie is surging (at exactly the right time).  Warren lost too much support when she flipped flopped on M4A.  

The leader of the Des Moines Register/CNN/Mediacom Iowa Poll has gone on to win the nomination for the last 6 cycles, Bernie for the first time in his 2 attempts at the nom has reached 1st place in that poll.  If the last 6 cycles are any indication Bernie will win the nomination!!!!

The MSM, Biden campaign and the Trump campaign have finally started to realize that Bernie has a shot at the nomination, and all 3 are spending time going after him now!

Bernie is by no means a sure shot at this point, IA AND NH are absolute must wins for Bernie BUT if he can manage to win them both it could be the momentum he needs for Super Tuesday!  Bernie leads the polls in CA as well.  Bernie is very popular with latino's as well and NV should be another momentum builder.  SC could end up in play for Bernie if he can win IA, NH and NV.  If anyone other than Sanders wins IA and NH, Biden will win the nomination and Trump will win the general!

Bernie needs to bring out the "traditional" non voters as the boomers who vote in huge percentages still don't like him.  Bernies strength has always been in bringing in "new" voters and over performing the shitty primary polls!

Buttigieg is a non starter at this point, he spent his load in IA and is trending down in the IA poll.  The best he can hope for at this point is for Biden to win the nom and then the general so he can get a high profile cabinet position.  In a few cycles when the neolibs are dead and withering in the streets Buttigieg can flip back to being progressive and run again (this time he would have executive branch experience).  Everyone will forget how much of a neolib twat he was in this cycle.

Warren shit the bed when she flip flopped on M4A, she came off as another corporate politician trying to walk a line rather than an authentic person who believed her ideals.  There was 12434636 candidates against M4A and 2 for it, once she wasn't one of the 2 supporting it she lost to much support to the only other candidate that does support it.

40% of the US wants to vote for a "burn the whole fucking thing down" candidate, this is a big part of the reason Trump drew the inside straight flush draw to win in 16.  Bernie has been trying to BTWFTD since Vietnam and his message is inspiring to the people Bernie needs to win.  Bernie has been on the right side of history (anti war, civil rights, globalization etc etc) for 40 years and voters can see his authenticity and they like it and his 4 decade messages.

The GOP base is SOOOOO energized right now (hyper partisan politics at it's best), the only real chance the Dems have to beat Trump in 2020 is to bring out the largest voting block in the US (non voters...).  Biden (HRC 2.0) will get stomped in the general, he doesn't inspire ANYONE and he (along with Trumps campaign HAMMERING him) will suppress the dem vote worse than Hillary did! Bernie will win most if not all of the only ~8 states that actually matter

It's time for Bernie to go hard after Biden and Warren tomorrow night.  If done right Bernie can really keep the pressure on going in to IA.

In my opinion we should know (with about  90% accuracy) after NH if the nominee will be Biden or Bernie.

Hey Squatz what happened to it being a 2 horse race between Biden and Warren, what happened to "Bernie will never win the nom"....??

Well I guess I still have time to not be wrong. But at this point I'm going to be admitting that I was wrong here. At this current point, Bernie does seem to be the frontrunner in all the states that he needs to come through in order to turn momentum the way that he needs. Obviously, none of this has happened yet and he still needs things to happen - but at this current point, I'll admit that I was wrong (for now, hehe)

I just don't think that traditional democrats are ready for him, I don't think the party establishment is ready for him -- though I suppose that the same thing could've (and was) said of Donald Trump. When you sit down and think about it, their campaigns are actually similar in a way - they both are going for hostile takeovers of their respective parties (Trump more then Sanders on this one, but still) and they've both burned a ton of bridges within their party that would lead to many people in the House and Senate stepping down if they were to win (Many moderate republicans left office when Trump was elected, I expect the same for the Dems if Sanders is to win the presidency)

We'll see, we only have a week or so until Iowa. Lot can happen in a week.




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January 27, 2020, 09:53:17 PM
Merited by TwitchySeal (1)
 #274

In Iowa, voters who support candidates who have under 15% have to go support someone else (or leave). If I combine the latest RCP average with the latest Emerson second-choice data for Iowa and treat it sort of like ranked-choice voting, that implies this result:

Round 1
Sanders 26.7%
Biden 23.5%
Buttigieg 18.2%
Warren 14.4%
Klobuchar 9.1%
Yang 3.2%
Steyer 3.0%
Gabbard 1.9%

Round 2
Sanders 27.3%
Biden 23.9%
Buttigieg 18.6%
Warren 14.8%
Klobuchar 9.2%
Yang 3.2%
Steyer 3.0%

Round 3
Sanders 29.0%
Biden 24.6%
Buttigieg 18.7%
Warren 15.0%
Klobuchar 9.5%
Yang 3.2%

Round 4
Sanders 30.6%
Biden 25.1%
Buttigieg 19.1%
Warren 15.2%
Klobuchar 10.0%

Round 5
Sanders 32.0%
Biden 29.2%
Buttigieg 22.2%
Warren 16.6%

(It doesn't actually work in rounds like this, and it's done at a per-district level, so in some districts even Sanders or Biden will be eliminated due to the 15% threshold. The above is just a way of getting a very rough estimate.)

It's looking good for Sanders in Iowa, though with the sheer confusion of the caucus process, Biden's more experienced supporters and caucus managers might push him over the top. If Sanders wins both Iowa and New Hampshire, his overall victory looks much more likely, and he'll at least go far. A contested convention is also very possible in that case, where Sanders would have a huge disadvantage due to superdelegates (who still get to vote if there is no majority). Can you imagine the chaos if Sanders wins a plurality of the delegates but loses the nomination?

My preferred outcomes are, in order:
 1. Sanders wins and loses to Trump.
 2. Sanders wins and wins against Trump.
 3. Sanders has the nomination stolen from him at the convention, and the Democrats implode.
 4. Biden wins and loses to Trump.

Those are all decent* outcomes IMO, and it's looking likely that one of them will happen. I can't wait to see the Iowa results.

* By decent I mean about as best as could be hoped for in today's world. Trump is a warmonger, Sanders would seek to utterly strangle the economy, and both are authoritarians.

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January 29, 2020, 06:32:45 AM
 #275

"Bernie Sanders Staff EXPOSED In Most INSANE Video Yet, Reveal Their REAL Secret Plan"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD3NQtIzQng


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January 29, 2020, 07:03:14 AM
 #276

"Bernie Sanders Staff EXPOSED In Most INSANE Video Yet, Reveal Their REAL Secret Plan"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD3NQtIzQng

Tim Pool knows how to get the clicks.

Getting a field office staffer to say something stupid while being secretly recorded, and then trying to spin it into 'this is what Bernie is really doing' is pretty laughable though, even for James Okeefe.  

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January 29, 2020, 05:18:55 PM
 #277

"Bernie Sanders Staff EXPOSED In Most INSANE Video Yet, Reveal Their REAL Secret Plan"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD3NQtIzQng

Tim Pool knows how to get the clicks.

Getting a field office staffer to say something stupid while being secretly recorded, and then trying to spin it into 'this is what Bernie is really doing' is pretty laughable though, even for James Okeefe.  

How did I know you would be making excuses for this? Like I said before, you don't have any principles, you are just interested in confirming your bias. This is now paid and vetted staffer #4 calling for violent "revolution", and they say there are more to come. Your whole "one bad apple" excuse is not applicable any more. Also Sanders refuses to address this and has instead chosen to lock down all of his social media. You know if these people get what they want, people like me won't be the first to suffer under them. History shows they kill the left that helped foment the revolution first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ag7W755b4


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February 01, 2020, 04:15:54 AM
 #278

Well I guess I still have time to not be wrong. But at this point I'm going to be admitting that I was wrong here.

Honestly dude it was WAAAAY to early to make the call you did!!

At this current point, Bernie does seem to be the frontrunner in all the states that he needs to come through in order to turn momentum the way that he needs. Obviously, none of this has happened yet and he still needs things to happen...

Things are all coming together for Bernie at the right time but the establishment is starting to freak out (hopefully to little to late!).  The establishment will play every dirty trick they can to sink Bernie and it could work.


I just don't think that traditional democrats are ready for him,

Working class dems that stayed home instead of voting for Hilary or voted for Trump and Gen X, Millenials and Gen Z overwhelmingly are ready and love him.  Boomer neolibs not so much, if you look into the near future you can see the neoliberal support base shrinking (because old) while the younger generations grow.  The reality of it is we are at the point where the neolibs are very vulnerable and the battle for control of the party is just starting.  If Bernie can turn out The under 45 voters he can win and control of the party will start to shift left.  The neolibs won't just give up but they will suffer a HUGE lose if Bernie wins the nomination.  If the under 45 voters don't turn out and Biden or another Neolib wins the nom the party will be in full on civil war for a few more cycles and that will do nothing but help the GOP win presidential elections.

Trump is scared of Bernie because Bernie is "tough on trade" and he speaks to the forgotten working class in a way that neolibs like Biden and the rest can't.

I don't think the party establishment is ready for him...

There not ready for him and they are terrified of him, they hate him (just ask HRC) he is a threat to their power and a threat to their donors.

-- though I suppose that the same thing could've (and was) said of Donald Trump. When you sit down and think about it, their campaigns are actually similar in a way - they both are going for hostile takeovers of their respective parties (Trump more then Sanders on this one, but still) and they've both burned a ton of bridges within their party that would lead to many people in the House and Senate stepping down if they were to win (Many moderate republicans left office when Trump was elected, I expect the same for the Dems if Sanders is to win the presidency)

I agree there are many parallels between Trumps campaign and Bernies not the least of which is because their respective establishments hate them.   It's almost like avg Americans on both sides of the aisle are sick and tired of corrupt establishment corporate politicians and as such populist candidates are popular eh???  Bernie speaks to the people on the left who are sick and tired of the corruption as did Trump all be it in very different messages lol.

Turnout, it all comes down to turnout and in a couple of days we get to see if Bernie can do what he says he can do and turn out the largest voting block in the USA (non voters).

Can you imagine the chaos if Sanders wins a plurality of the delegates but loses the nomination?

What is interesting to me is that I don't think the neolibs understand how much of a problem this would be.  One could make a reasonable argument that Bernie getting the nom "stolen" is the likely outcome.  I don't think the establishment and their super delegates will think twice about voting Biden if a second round is needed because Bernie is a bigger threat to them than Trump is.  If they do that it will disenfranchise are pretty large portion of their base for a long time, it will reaffirm their belief that corruption runs the democrats and all government and will help the GOP win presidential elections until another popular populist comes along for a second try.
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February 02, 2020, 09:45:29 PM
 #279

...

What is interesting to me is that I don't think the neolibs understand how much of a problem this would be.  One could make a reasonable argument that Bernie getting the nom "stolen" is the likely outcome.  I don't think the establishment and their super delegates will think twice about voting Biden if a second round is needed because Bernie is a bigger threat to them than Trump is.  If they do that it will disenfranchise are pretty large portion of their base for a long time, it will reaffirm their belief that corruption runs the democrats and all government and will help the GOP win presidential elections until another popular populist comes along for a second try.

Belief? Hasn't that been well understood for a long time? It's all right out in the open, their switching votes for Hillary and the other antics, and also how much resistance, including in the Republican, there was against Trump.

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February 04, 2020, 01:38:19 AM
Last edit: February 04, 2020, 12:42:30 PM by mprep
Merited by Flying Hellfish (1)
 #280

Quote
I would discourage anyone from voting this way in 2020.  Unless you like/dislike both candidates completely equally, you should vote for either the Democratic or Republican nominee.  A vote for a third party is half a vote for the nominee you prefer less.





That may make sense in a state that's very close - think Florida or Michigan - but it doesn't in a state like NY or California.

There one can easily vote third party and not affect the outcome. AND, the better a third party does the more attention is paid to the party platform and future Dem or Rep candidates will pay attention to the issues raised.   

You're right technically for states like NY and CA, but I feel like it's still a bad mentality for the population to have as a whole in any state that could swing one way or the other in the next decade (which is most of them).  It's kind of natural to convince yourself your vote really doesn't matter because you already know what's going to happen.  But that results in states not swinging the way they would if people didn't have this mentality. when a party decides to spend less campaigning there the next cycle, and then the next...

I guess what I'm really saying is I think the electoral college is dumb.  (and I'm not just saying that because Trump won it but lost the popular and has been a total embarrassment since, I know I know, different campaign strategies would have different results)
My vote DOES matter and thats why I won't just automatically give it to any party.  They have to EARN IT.  Maybe if enough people like me vote third party again, they will start to realize what they need to do to EARN my vote.  Until then, I'm not enabling their excuses for being shitty. 



In case you missed tonight's historic fiasco in Iowa
https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1224561674679488513
https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1224562950133800961

-Pete campaign paid 21k to shadow in july
-DNC bought APP in December for 120k to report iowa and Nevada results
-All results missing due to app malfunction and "mishap" with the backup phone system
-Pete declares himself the winner with no results reported
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