Liberated: LoyceV's Legendary Little Lightning Loans Lowered

[LoyceV]

Recently, I started playing around with a Bitcoin Lightning Network wallet (Eclair).

I considered creating a Satoshi doubler thread, but Little Lightning Loans sounds much better. The main purpose of this topic is to encourage Bitcoin users to try the Lightning Network, while using it for something real (although small).
A slight warning: Since the Lightning Network is still (a bit) experimental, you shouldn't deposit more than you're willing to lose. I think of it as an investment of time in Bitcoin's (possible) future.

Loan
No collateral required.
Amount: 0.01 mBTC (0.00001 BTC, or 1,000 satoshi).
Duration: one week.
Interest: 1% (0.0001 mBTC (=0.0000001 BTC or 10 satoshi)).
Conditions: Members (and higher) without red trust on DT2 all account ranks can apply.

To apply
1. Make sure you have inbound capacity.
2. Post a Bitcoin Lightning Network payment request for 0.01 mBTC. Make sure it doesn't expire too soon (in case I'm not online).
Repayment
3. When you want to pay back, let me know and I'll post a payment request.

Disclaimer
Self-moderated to stop spam from users who don't read and ask for a on-chain Bitcoin loan.
I reserve the right to reject or accept users as I please.
This topic is experimental, if it works out I might add Larger Lightning Loans later.
Don't take a small loan to get positive feedback, join to try the Lightning Network

Challenge
Help me add more sensible words (starting with an L) to the title

[1715367489]

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[1715367489]

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[1715367489]

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[1715367489]

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[LoyceV]

LoyceV's Legendary Little Lightning Loans Ledger
1. PrimeNumber7: June 2 - June 4: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 satoshi interest
2. thehun: June 8 - June 10: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 satoshi interest
3. BitCryptex: June 18 - June 20: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 102 satoshi interest
4. bitmover: June 22 - June 22: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 satoshi interest
5. Timelord2067: July 10 - July 13: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 satoshi interest
6. asu: August 6 - August 9: 0.1 mBTC 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 satoshi interest
7. asu: August 16 - August 23: 0.2 mBTC paid back in full with 200 satoshi interest
8. Timelord2067: August 23 - August 23:  0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 50 satoshi interest
9. Timelord2067: December 28 - December 30: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 50 satoshi interest
10. HCP: December 30 - January 1: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 50 satoshi interest
11. HCP: January 9 - January 9: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 50 satoshi interest
12. Timelord2067: January 9 - January 11: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 50 satoshi interest

[LoyceV]

here is btc address:1Fq8xvcZokMFHtfvVzRov4s7VK4wh5sB1X

I've added some red font to the OP. This topic is about Lightning Loans, a payment request looks like this:

Code:

lnbc100u1pw082lmpp56a6f0dt5jwddu2q4m0q8drvn6gsg87mstl2a4edz445lrmcpvunqdpsdp68gurn8ghj7mrfva58gmnfdenj6un0w4kx2ar5v5hxxmmdcqzpgxqyp2xq8rzuaxqr5fe8y33wtduphma45tu9rqk3t55dlf7z7j47vclrhwu9q9ymwmw2qc3pmuuky5kt798x6mnynwahv00nkf42glv9p8mhgtqpu82wj4

[niceboy999]

here is btc address:1Fq8xvcZokMFHtfvVzRov4s7VK4wh5sB1X

I've added some red font to the OP. This topic is about Lightning Loans, a payment request looks like this:

Code:

lnbc100u1pw082lmpp56a6f0dt5jwddu2q4m0q8drvn6gsg87mstl2a4edz445lrmcpvunqdpsdp68gurn8ghj7mrfva58gmnfdenj6un0w4kx2ar5v5hxxmmdcqzpgxqyp2xq8rzuaxqr5fe8y33wtduphma45tu9rqk3t55dlf7z7j47vclrhwu9q9ymwmw2qc3pmuuky5kt798x6mnynwahv00nkf42glv9p8mhgtqpu82wj4

ahh ok i have no Lightning Network address right now but i will do later.Thanks

[DireWolfM14]

Nice project, much lightning.

I have a little learning curve to overcome, but I'll request a loan from you just for fun once I've learned how to generate a pay request. 

[PrimeNumber7]

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Date June 2 2019
Time within 12 hours of 00000000000000000022d73ec793bd1c0bbbfa70a7098702711c634c101c8b9a
LN invoice lightning:lnbc100u1pw0gyygpp5nu7lxxrqr6sggmmwtasjvlvpc8p3hcmf98cqgj79my09274xeg9qdq6f3hkz m3qveex7mfqf3hhjcm92ccqzpgnzatmsy2eug3umpn6jy23hte2ttyjz20g43weul962wnm8vcs05rj 3efchhhtm40993kw0q36sy0hvvhpfflx2u8hwfhncnt999edlgqufhqvn

Requesting loan in the amount of 0.0001 BTC from LoyceV. The purpose of this loan is to test my LN client.

In exchange for this loan, I promise to repay LoyceV in the amount of 0.000101 BTC by June 9 2019

Thanks.
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
bc1qak92tjzyev30pk6nkqhqjgmgxqj68fxvyn5tl7
H5R0z9u/SSPpFhVCr2TMCZKm6/t0mLN0hoiYMlXwZR0OUVDdJuDEryxqfsE5IJSRI7r34Q+5jpWdjOsn2EXs0e0=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

[suchmoon]

@LoyceV - may I suggest explicitly stating your trust feedback policy because... you know... trust farmers.

Edit to avoid offending touchy newbies.

[PrimeNumber7]

May I suggest explicitly stating your trust feedback policy because... you know... trust farmers.

I am not sure if your post was directed about my request. If you bothered to read my post you would see the stated purpose very clearly says is to test my LN client. Nowhere did I imply that I expect trust in return for repaying >$1

[suchmoon]

May I suggest explicitly stating your trust feedback policy because... you know... trust farmers.

I am not sure if your post was directed about my request. If you bothered to read my post you would see the stated purpose very clearly says is to test my LN client. Nowhere did I imply that I expect trust in return for repaying >$1

Since I didn't quote or refer to you in any way it's obviously directed at the OP. But if the shoe fits I won't argue.

[LoyceMobile]

Time within 12 hours of 00000000000000000022d73ec793bd1c0bbbfa70a7098702711c634c101c8b9a
LN invoice lightning:lnbc100u1pw0gyygpp5nu7lxxrqr6sggmmwtasjvlvpc8p3hcmf98cqgj79my09274xeg9qdq6f3hkz m3qveex7mfqf3hhjcm92ccqzpgnzatmsy2eug3umpn6jy23hte2ttyjz20g43weul962wnm8vcs05rj 3efchhhtm40993kw0q36sy0hvvhpfflx2u8hwfhncnt999edlgqufhqvn

Eclair tells me: "this payment had expired".

[PrimeNumber7]

Time within 12 hours of 00000000000000000022d73ec793bd1c0bbbfa70a7098702711c634c101c8b9a
LN invoice lightning:lnbc100u1pw0gyygpp5nu7lxxrqr6sggmmwtasjvlvpc8p3hcmf98cqgj79my09274xeg9qdq6f3hkz m3qveex7mfqf3hhjcm92ccqzpgnzatmsy2eug3umpn6jy23hte2ttyjz20g43weul962wnm8vcs05rj 3efchhhtm40993kw0q36sy0hvvhpfflx2u8hwfhncnt999edlgqufhqvn

Eclair tells me: "this payment had expired".

Try this one:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
To ammend the post here <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5149962.msg51324624#msg51324624>

lightning:lnbc100u1pw0ggn2pp55rwr3kh5yetsa43h2x2g234kfdy9e83zvm9fxykx5rv3kh04xvfsdpyf3hkz m3qveex7mfqf3hhjcm92cs8guneyqeqcqzpgeh2lhm0gqyx68254u89ftu0q0qxddwz8w34jvctlp4n gzn27z049emt6jxy4e0cpajja4e43vsmc9h4j2ejyfwh6w6v4lvewvhy7wdqqlts8ls-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
bc1qak92tjzyev30pk6nkqhqjgmgxqj68fxvyn5tl7
H+IRiWBKfpYUm6KBJ5QgPkPQ67c20Ocjr3KDsoNH9QzDK6RcYG/mXMerLhC3K/+8gAQNLuHQWLU9BDVL+gfLDoI=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

BlueWallet appears to set the invoice to expire after an hour. I created it a few minutes ago

[LoyceMobile]

0.0001 Bitcoin Lightning Loan sent to PrimeNumber7. Fee paid: 2.02 satoshi

Welcome, my first customer!

[PrimeNumber7]

0.0001 Bitcoin Lightning Loan sent to PrimeNumber7. Fee paid: 2.02 satoshi

Welcome, my first customer!

Received.



I will play around with my client a bit and ask for an invoice to pay you back.

[t0011b4dzz]

Please can I have a loan too? Thanks!

[LoyceV]

@LoyceV - may I suggest explicitly stating your trust feedback policy because... you know... trust farmers.

Added:

Don't take a small loan to get positive feedback, join to try the Lightning Network

Please can I have a loan too? Thanks!

No. Only Members and higher are allowed, and your post history doesn't show anything else than applying for giveaways and loans, so you don't qualify for an exception.

[AB de Royse777]

0.0001 Bitcoin Lightning Loan sent to PrimeNumber7. Fee paid: 2.02 satoshi

Welcome, my first customer!

Holy Sh**!
I wanted to learn how to setup LN then I totally forgot about it. :-P

[TheBeardedBaby]

I want to try it too at a later stage.
My big house project is soon to be finished, just left to build a veranda and paint the roof and that will be all for this year and then I'll setup my Lighting node as I dream to do this for very long time now.

[Vod]

Fee paid: 2.02 satoshi

How is this possible?  I thought a satoshi was the smallest amount you could break a bitcoin into? 

(Feel free to delete if off topic, but I am curious.    )

[LoyceMobile]

Lightning Network uses milli-satoshis as smallest unit.

I'm more curious why it's 2 dot something: my guess is some node charges 1 or 2 satoshi, and another node charges just 0.02. I don't think one node would charge 2.02, and I've seen a "weird number" as fee quite often.

[PrimeNumber7]

0.0001 Bitcoin Lightning Loan sent to PrimeNumber7. Fee paid: 2.02 satoshi

Welcome, my first customer!

Received.


I will play around with my client a bit and ask for an invoice to pay you back.

If you can post an invoice in the next 15 minutes, I will pay you back tonight. It is nearly midnight in California, and I need to be at work by 7.

[LoyceV]

If you can post an invoice in the next 15 minutes, I will pay you back tonight.

Code:

lightning:lnbc101u1pw0v9k6pp5023tmcssc39mnktdnnjupnpjz66rkdv72nc89649uxgjaep33q0qdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrl4dtaacqnwg8htva6d7xptsusshjx6pvkdzmdsd3fqq5am7f0vhvqwur4hdd2dw350nzk9xd2wdvf4t3x8hmyg9mlk7q29d5c8fmjgp96nnhu

[PrimeNumber7]

If you can post an invoice in the next 15 minutes, I will pay you back tonight.

Code:

lightning:lnbc101u1pw0v9k6pp5023tmcssc39mnktdnnjupnpjz66rkdv72nc89649uxgjaep33q0qdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrl4dtaacqnwg8htva6d7xptsusshjx6pvkdzmdsd3fqq5am7f0vhvqwur4hdd2dw350nzk9xd2wdvf4t3x8hmyg9mlk7q29d5c8fmjgp96nnhu

Sent. Please confirm at your convenience.

It was a pleasure. This gave me the opportunity to learn about the economics behind the current LN ecosystem.

[LoyceV]

Sent. Please confirm at your convenience.

Although I'm a bit slow at posting here, the transaction was received at Lightning speed

It was a pleasure. This gave me the opportunity to learn about the economics behind the current LN ecosystem.

Glad to hear that

While trying to open a new channel, I found out many nodes require at least 0.02 BTC per channel, but I'm not comfortable yet depositing $150 to an experimental network. It took me a while to find another one that accepts a lower amount. It's not confirmed yet, so I can't test it yet.
Until now, anything up to 3 satoshi had 0 fee, but anything above that had at least 1 satoshi fee. I'd like to see if 2 nodes lead to lower fees. My expectation is that payments take the cheapest possible route.

After opening a LN channel, you need to make a payment first to get inbound capacity. I bought 1000 Doge at https://www.coinplaza.it/ (ANN thread), but you can also exchange Bitcoin Lightning for Bitcoin.

[PrimeNumber7]

After opening a LN channel, you need to make a payment first to get inbound capacity

There appear to be several services that will open a channel to your node to give you inbound liquidity in exchange for a fee that is a percentage of the size of the channel plus what amounts to the opening and closing TX fee. The percentage these services charge depends on how long you want the channel to be ‘guaranteed’ to stay open, but this is really just their word and is not an actual guarantee. I found some of these services on 1ML, so I know they have at least many open Channels, or someone who does is willing to display their name. I haven’t figured out a way to gauge any of their reputation, so I cannot estimate the likelihood they will follow through on actually opening a channel that gives liquidity.

I had found one that claimed to open a channel of the same size if you have an open outbound channel to them, for only the cost of the tx fees, but the above still applies.

[LoyceV]

On a slightly related note:

BlueWallet

On bluewallet.io they say: "You control your private keys", but on bluewallet.io/lightning they say "you can use custodial Lightning wallets (or choose to run your own node)".

If I understand correctly, that means your Lightning funds are entirely at their mercy if they decide to shut down their service.

[PrimeNumber7]

On a slightly related note:

BlueWallet

On bluewallet.io they say: "You control your private keys", but on bluewallet.io/lightning they say "you can use custodial Lightning wallets (or choose to run your own node)".

If I understand correctly, that means your Lightning funds are entirely at their mercy if they decide to shut down their service.

Correct. I was unable to find a non-custodial mobile wallet that doesn’t require a connection to a local LN wallet/node to operate.

The plan was to setup a local wallet on my laptop that I would transfer LN coin from to my phone when I would go out planning on spending coin via LN and transfer any excess coin back when I return home. This would reduce counter-party risk to only pocket money and only for short periods at a time, and could stop using their services if I noticed problems. As noted above, inbound LN liquidity is not free and this probably isn’t a good solution based on the current LN economy. I don’t have access to a computer I can have on 24/7, when I am away from home I can use for personal use. I could spin up a cheap VPS but this would reduce the cost benefits of using LN.

[LoyceV]

I was unable to find a non-custodial mobile wallet that doesn’t require a connection to a local LN wallet/node to operate.

Eclair connects to a node that you choose. I started with one of the more or less default nodes (ACINQ NODE).
A custodial wallet isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if you only use it for small payments and don't risk too much on it. It might actually be an easier way to start with LN.

I could spin up a cheap VPS but this would reduce the cost benefits of using LN.

I'm still postponing (where's the time?) to get a VPS for loyce.club's data. Once I have one, adding a LN node would be a nice project too.
For now I'm using other nodes (kinda what I do when I use Electrum).

[PrimeNumber7]

I was unable to find a non-custodial mobile wallet that doesn’t require a connection to a local LN wallet/node to operate.

Eclair connects to a node that you choose. I started with one of the more or less default nodes (ACINQ NODE).
A custodial wallet isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if you only use it for small payments and don't risk too much on it. It might actually be an easier way to start with LN.

I don't have an android device, so Eclair is not an option for me.

A custodial LN wallet does have some real world advantages, such as giving the end user free inbound liquidity, and allowing the end user to only send one transaction to the custodian instead of having to open many channels with many nodes. If the custodian is well connected in the LN, the end user may also have less failed transactions.

The business model of custodians could be to use coin received by their users to open channels with liquidity they charge for. It is not clear this is the case with BlueWallet.

Presently, it is very difficult to judge if any custodial wallet is a scam. If any particular custodial wallet service gets very popular, they may become the target of hackers, and their operational model will require them to keep the majority of coin in a hot wallet type environment.

[LoyceV]

I don't have an android device, so Eclair is not an option for me.

We're more or less "collecting" Android devices, so I can now literally use one device for one wallet, I'm still paranoid for installing new wallets, so I like to keep them strictly separated.

A custodial LN wallet does have some real world advantages, such as giving the end user free inbound liquidity, and allowing the end user to only send one transaction to the custodian instead of having to open many channels with many nodes. If the custodian is well connected in the LN, the end user may also have less failed transactions.

I'd like to see established trusted sites join this business. Exchanges for instance, although KYC isn't ideal, or maybe casinos.

The business model of custodians could be to use coin received by their users to open channels with liquidity they charge for.

I'd be okay paying a bit for that, or it could be used to lower their transaction fees, while getting more users for their business.

I deleted a Newbie's post. I'm not against a Newbie joining, but it has to be a real user who has an actual interest in LN. Not the generic default Newbie who has no idea what LN is, posts a Bitcoin address to asks for 0.1 mBTC here, and asks for 0.2 BTC in another topic. These I delete

[thehun]

Very interested in trying this out. After some fiddling I think I managed to open an inbound channel for payments.

Amount: 0.1 mBTC (0.0001 BTC, or 10,000 satoshi).
Duration: one week.
Interest: 1% (0.001 mBTC (=0.000001 BTC or 100 satoshi)).

lightning:lnbc1pw0n8j6pp5790h8zncfhxjperah0tn8l07czrfuughgrfaw2n9fkywr8muzjlsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq5wharrjwufrhfphs87rpwf7l36hk4s786hr6fwdgaterye0lzz3pu6vz0pqv9jsalc3yxdw3cxgr rt49y870t7pz7x8dftf0nucmpngpwz2y9t


Cheers  

[LoyceV]

lightning:lnbc1pw0n8j6pp5790h8zncfhxjperah0tn8l07czrfuughgrfaw2n9fkywr8muzjlsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq5wharrjwufrhfphs87rpwf7l36hk4s786hr6fwdgaterye0lzz3pu6vz0pqv9jsalc3yxdw3cxgr rt49y870t7pz7x8dftf0nucmpngpwz2y9t

Payment failed: "Channel is currently disabled, remote failure".

[thehun]

lightning:lnbc1pw0n8j6pp5790h8zncfhxjperah0tn8l07czrfuughgrfaw2n9fkywr8muzjlsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq5wharrjwufrhfphs87rpwf7l36hk4s786hr6fwdgaterye0lzz3pu6vz0pqv9jsalc3yxdw3cxgr rt49y870t7pz7x8dftf0nucmpngpwz2y9t

Payment failed: "Channel is currently disabled, remote failure".

Hmm that's really weird, I don't see errors in my client. Maybe my phone went offline at some point?

[LoyceV]

Hmm that's really weird, I don't see errors in my client. Maybe my phone went offline at some point?

It was set to expire in 6 hours, so that shouldn't be the problem. Let's try again with a new payment request?

[thehun]

Hmm that's really weird, I don't see errors in my client. Maybe my phone went offline at some point?

It was set to expire in 6 hours, so that shouldn't be the problem. Let's try again with a new payment request?

Let's see if this one works

lightning:lnbc1pw0cz40pp544wcdru5s9ks88jp6n37schgsl5ptzvy3ws6qu6gzq545cr7kqzsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq8mu44hgczzukj8rawa4vtmrjzmg2mmeju3s8x9mqv6uzka26ny3p59jexhr8evus7fsrmjl8q8ug 2lteazftkxynm4ue8xd8q94pfwgqjfn4va

[LoyceV]

lightning:lnbc1pw0cz40pp544wcdru5s9ks88jp6n37schgsl5ptzvy3ws6qu6gzq545cr7kqzsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq8mu44hgczzukj8rawa4vtmrjzmg2mmeju3s8x9mqv6uzka26ny3p59jexhr8evus7fsrmjl8q8ug 2lteazftkxynm4ue8xd8q94pfwgqjfn4va

Lightning Loan sent! The spaces are annoying on mobile, so I made a QR-code on my PC, then scanned from Eclair. Your request didn't ask for an amount, I sent 0.1 mBTC.
Fee paid: 2 sat!

[thehun]

lightning:lnbc1pw0cz40pp544wcdru5s9ks88jp6n37schgsl5ptzvy3ws6qu6gzq545cr7kqzsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq8mu44hgczzukj8rawa4vtmrjzmg2mmeju3s8x9mqv6uzka26ny3p59jexhr8evus7fsrmjl8q8ug 2lteazftkxynm4ue8xd8q94pfwgqjfn4va

Lightning Loan sent! The spaces are annoying on mobile, so I made a QR-code on my PC, then scanned from Eclair. Your request didn't ask for an amount, I sent 0.1 mBTC.
Fee paid: 2 sat!

Received! 

I didn't realise I could set an amount, I just saw that setting now.

Let me know how I can repay 

[Timelord2067]

What version of BitCoin is needed for this to work? And, sorry to ask, can you give a brief walk through commands to use?

[LoyceV]

Let me know how I can repay

When you're ready, I'll post a payment request. This expires in 6 hours, so I can't plan a week ahead.

What version of BitCoin is needed for this to work?

You need a Lightning wallet. See for instance Top 11 Wallets for the Bitcoin Lightning Network (disclaimer: I've only tested Eclair (and Tippin) by myself, be careful with untrusted software on your main devices).

[thehun]

When you're ready, I'll post a payment request. This expires in 6 hours, so I can't plan a week ahead.

I'm ready 

[LoyceV]

I'm ready  

Please pay 0.101 mBTC here:

Code:

lightning:lnbc101u1pw0u9skpp5lj2yggxc5jfy7hsr428ck2tutem8ec5nu3daqa20nn2ynrxv22mqdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq0nqj27c6434zsat2py74a3atfle4vrdtvsxt484f2sv4dde4l7ukkphlnmygu3l3mdwsd72r20399e8vp279q769l2lkqvmhn9n595qq0vk5yq

[thehun]

I'm ready  

Please pay 0.101 mBTC here:

Code:

lightning:lnbc101u1pw0u9skpp5lj2yggxc5jfy7hsr428ck2tutem8ec5nu3daqa20nn2ynrxv22mqdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq0nqj27c6434zsat2py74a3atfle4vrdtvsxt484f2sv4dde4l7ukkphlnmygu3l3mdwsd72r20399e8vp279q769l2lkqvmhn9n595qq0vk5yq

Payment failed for some reason. I tried it twice with the same result

[LoyceV]

Maybe Eclair didn't keep running in the background, I'll keep the screen on for a while. Try again?

[thehun]

Maybe Eclair didn't keep running in the background, I'll keep the screen on for a while. Try again?

Failed again 

[LoyceV]

I don't know what causes it. Try paying to https://tippin.me/@LoyceVVal ?

[thehun]

I don't know what causes it. Try paying to https://tippin.me/@LoyceVVal ?

This one worked  

Payment hash 65109e8e0a6d9882674787c282bbc797684ce3a8665fb2836086113af8d6c605

I like the concept and the speed of LN transactions but I feel like there is still a lot to improve before we can think of mass adoption. Setting up an incoming channel should be a lot easier and it's not very convenient to need to have the client running all the time if you want to receive something. Also, 6 hours max expiry for a payment request is not enough.

In any case, thanks for a great trade!

[LoyceV]

This one worked  

I've sent it from Tippin to my Eclair wallet with no problems.

I like the concept and the speed of LN transactions but I feel like there is still a lot to improve before we can think of mass adoption. Setting up an incoming channel should be a lot easier and it's not very convenient to need to have the client running all the time if you want to receive something.

We're playing with experimental technology here. It's fun to do, but far from finished. From what I've seen, custodial wallets work easier than non-custodial wallets. For decentralization, I hope latter wallets will be improved, but I'm okay with using a custodial wallet for small payments if I have to.

Also, 6 hours max expiry for a payment request is not enough.

In many cases 10 minutes is enough, but indeed for payments through different time zones it's not very convenient if it expires before the other party has even seen it.

In any case, thanks for a great trade!

Thanks for joining this test

[wwzsocki]

...I don't have an android device, so Eclair is not an option for me.

Same here and additionally Bluewallet wich PrimeNumber7 used is only for Android and Mac. I have only windows on my computers and my phone.

This is a great opportunity to learn about the LN and the best way to do it is to send a transaction, download wallet, just do all of this, step by step by yourself.

From the discussion in this thread, I see that already involved members gathered a lot of new knowledge about the LN network.

Great idea @Loycev if you know any windows wallet which is safe to use I will be glad to try it.

[LoyceV]

Great idea @Loycev if you know any windows wallet which is safe to use I will be glad to try it.

Top 11 Wallets for the Bitcoin Lightning Network gives 3 options. I can't tell you how safe they are, and I haven't tested them.

[Rath_]

Great idea Loyce! What node are you connected to?

Code:

lightning:lnbc100u1pws3w8tpp5eyzwh4hwtqkj83yeueqkgaycjxtnzqyza8fwkdvd6wakv6unx4dqdp2f3hhjcm92csxcmmpdcsxvmmjyppxjazrwfuhqar90qcqzpgxqyz5vq02ly82jzuhayx6pcd78p4xygmvnf44xwtq657llpnfu2k7qf2fwhlepgzqqzdd89kzsdkrjwpslrh0qkw70mfq5q0wvvmjd45fjveygpu307qq

[...]and then I'll setup my Lighting node as I dream to do this for very long time now.

If you need any help, hit me up! I can also help with setting up Zap on your mobile which will make it easier for you to manage your node.

[LoyceV]

What node are you connected to?

I'm currently connected to one of ACINQ's nodes, which is the easiest to connect to from Eclair.

Code:

lightning:lnbc100u1pws3w8tpp5eyzwh4hwtqkj83yeueqkgaycjxtnzqyza8fwkdvd6wakv6unx4dqdp2f3hhjcm92csxcmmpdcsxvmmjyppxjazrwfuhqar90qcqzpgxqyz5vq02ly82jzuhayx6pcd78p4xygmvnf44xwtq657llpnfu2k7qf2fwhlepgzqqzdd89kzsdkrjwpslrh0qkw70mfq5q0wvvmjd45fjveygpu307qq

Funded! Welcome my third customer
I paid a whopping 5.52 satoshi on fees.

I also installed BlueWallet, which allows receiving Lighting payments without funding a channel first. Using a custodial wallet certainly has benefits. BlueWallet recommends to only use it for small amounts.
From what I've seen, it charges (up to) 1% in fees for making a payment. For small payments, that's totally acceptable, and much less than the on-chain fee I paid to close a channel that failed to open (due to my low funding fee).

[PrimeNumber7]

From what I've seen, [BlueWallet] charges (up to) 1% in fees for making a payment. For small payments, that's totally acceptable, and much less than the on-chain fee I paid to close a channel that failed to open (due to my low funding fee).

My understanding is BlueWallet will force the user to reserve 1% for possible LN channel fees, but will not necessarily actually charge this much, depending on the LN network fees. I have noticed their LN fees to be higher than sending transactions while connected to a few well connected nodes found on 1ML. The total cost, including tx fees, and fees paid to 3rd party nodes when using a non-custodial wallet, remains lower using BlueWallet.

[LoyceV]

My understanding is BlueWallet will force the user to reserve 1% for possible LN channel fees, but will not necessarily actually charge this much, depending on the LN network fees. I have noticed their LN fees to be higher than sending transactions while connected to a few well connected nodes found on 1ML. The total cost, including tx fees, and fees paid to 3rd party nodes when using a non-custodial wallet, remains lower using BlueWallet.

I noticed BlueWallet is just a bit inaccurate. I did this starting with an empty wallet:
I deposited 200 sat. It shows the deposit correctly, but the balance shown was 198 sat.
I withdrew 196 sat. It shows the withdrawal correctly, the remaining balance was 2 sat.
I withdrew 2 sat. The balance now shows 0 sat, but the withdrawal is shown as 4 sat.

All in all nothing I worry about, and I assume they'll fix those tiny details at some point.

[Rath_]

I would like to repay my loan. Feel free to charge me more I am going to open a bigger channel anyway. I will use Eclair Mobile this time so the routing fee should be different. By the way, a new non-custodial Lightning Network wallet has been released. It's available for both iOS and Android so it's perfect for most people here.

[LoyceV]

I would like to repay my loan. Feel free to charge me more

I like it, deal I've increased the interest by 2% (from 100 to 102 satoshi). Please pay 0.00010102 BTC:

Code:

lnbc101020n1pwskh3rpp55cf2tn68dmg4pskula9elmk2yle0rsu7hfcewpx7l9m6wn8r2w8qdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq0dj7h8kdr68g6hp8222fwrps0y6pkd8pzmyjelzg6qts8nnxn77zecgtgzh07sr45j9z8k83m732jm70w0e9g9gjdewnjfhc7sju45qqy3y8zm

I am going to open a bigger channel anyway. I will use Eclair Mobile this time so the routing fee should be different. By the way, a new non-custodial Lightning Network wallet has been released. It's available for both iOS and Android so it's perfect for most people here.

I'll check it.

[Rath_]

I like it, deal I've increased the interest by 2% (from 100 to 102 satoshi). Please pay 0.00010102 BTC:

Paid. The routing fee was lower this time, 2.01 satoshi and the transaction was instant despite being connected to different nodes.

[LoyceV]

Paid.

Received.

The routing fee was lower this time, 2.01 satoshi and the transaction was instant despite being connected to different nodes.

With Eclair and the node I'm connected to, any transaction up to 3 satoshi doesn't take a fee and is very fast, anything above that charges a (small) fee and takes a bit longer (maybe 5 seconds) to find a route).
I've tried BlueWallet a couple of times too, but it's quite annoying with the amount of confirmation screens I get. That's probably good for serious usage, but not for testing it and sending a couple hundred transactions in a short time.

It probably doesn't help that I use a tablet for testing, while Eclair and BlueWallet are designed to be used on a phone. I just don't want to experiment on devices that I use for other things.

[bitmover]

Hello Loycev
I would like to participate

I was trying to open a channel but I am receiving weird messages
"Channel capacity not valid"
Cani use some already opened channel?

Sorry I am a newbie with this

[LoyceV]

I was trying to open a channel but I am receiving weird messages
"Channel capacity not valid"

What wallet are you using?

Cani use some already opened channel?

I think that's only possible if you use a custodial wallet.

[bitmover]

What wallet are you using?

I am using Éclair wallet.
Do I need to send some funds to the wallet so I  open a channel?

[LoyceV]

I am using Éclair wallet.
Do I need to send some funds to the wallet so I  open a channel?

Yes. A channel needs at least 1 mBTC (some nodes require more), and to do that, you'll need to fund the Eclair wallet first (on-chain).

[bitmover]

I am using Éclair wallet.
Do I need to send some funds to the wallet so I  open a channel?

Yes. A channel needs at least 1 mBTC (some nodes require more), and to do that, you'll need to fund the Eclair wallet first (on-chain).

Hello Loycev

I have opened a channel (still waiting for confirmation of the transaction

This is the channel id.
I found it very expensive to open the channel. Unless we are planning to make a lot of transitions, it is more expensive to use lightning network, right?

68a147394c28312b887c590b59523ed4886a0f9f14d2b7a27e76f98e7cf64c1f

In the next hours (when confirmed) I will make the payment request for 0.1mBTC

[LoyceV]

I found it very expensive to open the channel. Unless we are planning to make a lot of transitions, it is more expensive to use lightning network, right?

It's up to you what fee to choose, but as I found out the hard way: if it doesn't confirm within 24 hours, the channel gets closed at a much higher fee. That's the part I can't control (I think the node decides), and fees for opening and closing channels are indeed the main worry I have for large scale LN adoption.
As long as the node keeps running, I don't really see a reason to close the channel.

[bitmover]

if it doesn't confirm within 24 hours, the channel gets closed at a much higher fee.

I think it will happen to me... i used 4 sat/byte . I thought "I am not in a hurry, i am not transferring to anyone"

Edit: But, I will be "charged" for closing the channel? How am I going to be charged, if I am the only one with the private key? Theoretically I would have to go to the wallet and pay this fee for closing the channel, right?
Or is Eclair getting my keys and closing channels after 24h? This is not clear to me.

Edit2: Just saw that to open the channel I needed to transfer 0.001 to another wallet.... so they have the keys... That is basically a loan.
I didn´t knew about it. I understood now what people were saying when they said nodes were becoming banks.

[LoyceV]

if it doesn't confirm within 24 hours, the channel gets closed at a much higher fee.

I think it will happen to me... i used 4 sat/byte . I thought "I am not in a hurry, i am not transferring to anyone"

If there was achange output, you can use CPFP on it.

Edit: But, I will be "charged" for closing the channel? How am I going to be charged, if I am the only one with the private key? Theoretically I would have to go to the wallet and pay this fee for closing the channel, right?
Or is Eclair getting my keys and closing channels after 24h? This is not clear to me.

Edit2: Just saw that to open the channel I needed to transfer 0.001 to another wallet.... so they have the keys... That is basically a loan.

I admit I don't know all the details of LN under the hood, but from what I understand you've send the funds to an address that both you and the node have some control over. I think your wallet gave the node a signed transaction which can be used to close the channel. So the node can decide to close the channel, thereby initiating another transfer (with a predefined lock time) to close the channel. When that happens because it's unconfirmed, the node does CPFP.
More of my experience with it here.

I didn´t knew about it. I understood now what people were saying when they said nodes were becoming banks.

I don't think that's entirely correct. The "banks" problem is more when nodes become very big and LN becomes very centralized, but even then anyone can still create their own node.

99Bitcoins.com can explain it much better than I can:

if I want to transact with my friend, we open an “off-chain” payment channel between us.
~snip~
Simply put, my friend and I write down how much each one owes the other without ever exchanging the money until we choose to settle the bill.
~snip~
When you open a payment channel, each of you deposits a certain amount of money that acts as a security deposit.
(further reading)

[bitmover]

Got confirmed  @LoyceV. 3 sat/byte got confirmed in about 17hours lol

I made the payment request of 0.1 mbtc
Let's hurry we have few hours left

lightning:lnbc100u1pwsmedmpp5syshv54ve523dncw498058hwjcul5vf37dcjvcqe0anw560504lsdq0dpjhj grvdaukxegxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z8qcuqq vjgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqju8560ztv9lwdndckytvjvnkvjadyzh72y975m8etjhr0gy8cgw4nded6 zvht8syv5355vpga4zw7hdx32c082x2mcenhzqcrlvna5cqj4qt0e

I will try to pay back in the same channel.

[LoyceV]

lightning:lnbc100u1pwsmedmpp5syshv54ve523dncw498058hwjcul5vf37dcjvcqe0anw560504lsdq0dpjhj grvdaukxegxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z8qcuqq vjgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqju8560ztv9lwdndckytvjvnkvjadyzh72y975m8etjhr0gy8cgw4nded6 zvht8syv5355vpga4zw7hdx32c082x2mcenhzqcrlvna5cqj4qt0e

Payment failed! "channel is currently disabled", RemoteFailure.
Does that mean your wallet is offline?
It worked 5 minutes later. Loan funded
Fee paid: 2 satoshi.

I will try to pay back in the same channel.

I'm not sure if you can choose the channel by yourself, but you'll need a payment request from me before you can pay (they're working on an update that allows payments without sending a request first).

[bitmover]

You're fast! I made a new request and you just paid before I could paste the lightning request here. How? Lol

I will pay your back as soon as you post your request

Edit:
I could not find anything related to your payment, such as fees or from which address you paid. This is interesting for privacy, as companies cannot track customers even if they are using the same address in multiple lightning payments. I cannot even pay you back because I don't see where it came from

I cannot track you in this offchain database. Interesting. Sadly I cannot see the fees...

Waiting for your request LoyceV.

For me, so far I paid 0.4mbtc in fees for opening the channel and sending out the funds to eclair,, even using very low fees.

[LoyceV]

I will pay your back as soon as you post your request

Here it is:

Code:

lnbc101u1pwsuz6fpp5um0962czsdaygfspmevz3ca3qkf6fn2q0xssdyz70wayg40a89pqdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqq2dcr4xw62cvlucqzxmhe3v7anhe23fz0p2gl5zdavfr6wpprzzxct53dmnu4vcfzfy047kkfw32mpl399tw28xqfv4um069zk6awxgpgkl8qc

I could not find anything related to your payment, such as fees or from which address you paid. This is interesting for privacy, as companies cannot track customers even if they are using the same address in multiple lightning payments. I cannot even pay you back because I don't see where it came from

I don't think there is such a thing as "using the same address twice", if you try to pay the same request again, it says it's already paid.
I'm not sure how much nodes can see from transactions that they don't process. I can imagine this is very good for mass adoption: no node will have to handle millions of transactions, all nodes will only handle the transactions that pass through that node.

Sadly I cannot see the fees...

2 sat

For me, so far I paid 0.4mbtc in fees for opening the channel and sending out the funds to eclair,, even using very low fees.

How do you get to that amount? Is that the amount "reserved" in the channel that you can't send? I've noticed the amount I can send sometimes goes up and down a bit.

[bitmover]

Here it is:

Code:

lnbc101u1pwsuz6fpp5um0962czsdaygfspmevz3ca3qkf6fn2q0xssdyz70wayg40a89pqdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqq2dcr4xw62cvlucqzxmhe3v7anhe23fz0p2gl5zdavfr6wpprzzxct53dmnu4vcfzfy047kkfw32mpl399tw28xqfv4um069zk6awxgpgkl8qc

Paid. There is no payment receipt or whatsoever.

Same 2 sat fee.

No doubt it is good for Mass adoption. Nobody knows where he money comes from or where it goes.
I will close the channel in a few hours, in case someone else wants to use it just post here something...

When the channel is closed I will know my final balance and how much that test cost in fees.

Thanks LoyceV, and congrats on your initiative.

[LoyceV]

Paid. There is no payment receipt or whatsoever.

Received
I'm still not entirely sure how payments are registered and how you can prove a request was paid. There are explorers like 1ML - Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine, but I'm haven't searched for transactions yet. I kinda expect it only shows nodes.

When the channel is closed I will know my final balance and how much that test cost in fees.

I'm curious to see that too, and I really dislike that I can't set a custom fee.

[Rath_]

I'm still not entirely sure how payments are registered and how you can prove a request was paid.

Payment hash proves that transaction has been paid. You can see it in Eclair Mobile in transaction details.

There are explorers like 1ML - Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine, but I'm haven't searched for transactions yet. I kinda expect it only shows nodes.

One of the benefits of using the Lightning Network is that no one can see your transactions. Nodes which route payments don't know which node initialized the payment and if the next node is the final one. Also, such explorers don't show private channels (those are incapable of routing payments, for example, mobile wallets use them).

I'm curious to see that too, and I really dislike that I can't set a custom fee.

That's a software limitation. Other wallets allow setting custom fee.

[bitmover]

I'm still not entirely sure how payments are registered and how you can prove a request was paid.

Payment hash proves that transaction has been paid. You can see it in Eclair Mobile in transaction details.

I saw that too. But I couldn't find anywhere to paste it so I could verify (see fees, receipt or whatever).

When the channel is closed I will know my final balance and how much that test cost in fees.

I'm curious to see that too, and I really dislike that I can't set a custom fee.

I tried to close the channel prematurely (now) and I was warned that I would pay higher fees.
I believe that in the way lightning channels are designed channels should only be closed prematurely if there is a reason or a misunderstanding between the parts. I read something like this in mastering bitcoin but I am lazy now to check it

[Timelord2067]

Bump! 10,000,000 milli-satoshis are waiting for a 7 day loan

I'm just transferring some funds over - hopefully they won't take too long to arrive 

[bitmover]

Just a small update.

I have closed all channels (2, one created by and the other probably created by loycev).  I received a few Satoshis from those channels, but in the end this test was expensive. I don't know exactly why because the  fees aren't very transparent.

I send 0.0011 BTC to eclair, and my final balance now is 0.000652
Open and closing channels are transactions... I sent to eclair with 3 sat/byte and create a channel with 13 sat/byte. Even with those relatively low w fees , this was quite expensive.

[Timelord2067]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind testing this out for you...

Bump! 10,000,000 milli-satoshis are waiting for a 7 day loan

I'm just transferring some funds over - hopefully they won't take too long to arrive  

I've already lost 66¢ by opening a channel (where my funds went I have no idea), so this is indeed a steep learning curve.

Code:

lnbc1pw3d2a3pp525tlssfzmtsaqqg26mampzz5k99snkkml8tjmqr5w268tu7vpnrsdq5235k6etvdaexgv3sxcmsxqr4rqtqadr90fkwu8wt7lfjw3yy68mufqyzkr4zs5sce8kdnscd78vd05auh7wvmre7nzuf723es0xfscxzqe77jjkz840k5h7lkwwddychqp5rt0uw

Open and closing channels are transactions... I sent to eclair with 3 sat/byte and create a channel with 13 sat/byte. Even with those relatively low w fees , this was quite expensive.

Opening a channel cost me 534 sats according to the TX or 5,340 sats on the eclair program, of which 0.00004060 BTC went to bc1qu6y02ypekdze9wrjhyma9eqkufnznzeu2x8et62umqe345uc06mqj3n3a4

[LoyceV]

I send 0.0011 BTC to eclair, and my final balance now is 0.000652
Open and closing channels are transactions... I sent to eclair with 3 sat/byte and create a channel with 13 sat/byte. Even with those relatively low w fees , this was quite expensive.

What was the fee for closing the channel? I assume that's the one that took a much larger share than when you opened it.

the  fees aren't very transparent

I think the fees have to be high, to prevent a double spend attack with an older state if it doesn't confirm fast enough. I hope it will at least become more transparant in the future.

I've already lost 66¢ by opening a channel (where my funds went I have no idea)

Miners?

Code:

lnbc1pw3d2a3pp525tlssfzmtsaqqg26mampzz5k99snkkml8tjmqr5w268tu7vpnrsdq5235k6etvdaexgv3sxcmsxqr4rqtqadr90fkwu8wt7lfjw3yy68mufqyzkr4zs5sce8kdnscd78vd05auh7wvmre7nzuf723es0xfscxzqe77jjkz840k5h7lkwwddychqp5rt0uw

I get "PAYMENT FAILED!" in Eclair: Route not found. Type: Local.

Opening a channel cost me 534 sats according to the TX or 5,340 sats on the eclair program, of which 0.00004060 BTC went to bc1qu6y02ypekdze9wrjhyma9eqkufnznzeu2x8et62umqe345uc06mqj3n3a4

The fee was 5340 sat (Blockchain.com doesn't show the 8th digit for some reason). The remaining 4060 sat is change. That happened to me too when I opened the channel: despite trying to send the maximum amount, it created a change. I think this was because I adjusted the fee.
It would have been much better if Eclair would open a slightly bigger channel and have no change (which is almost dust).

[Timelord2067]

I'm going to ask a mindnumbingly obvious question here.

If there's a TESTNET version of eclair https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair-mobile/releases why aren't we using testnet bitcoins?

Can a new thread for TESTNET Bitcoin lightning be started to run in parallel to this thread?

[LoyceV]

If there's a TESTNET version of eclair https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair-mobile/releases why aren't we using testnet bitcoins?

It's more fun to play with the real stuff

Can a new thread for TESTNET Bitcoin lightning be started to run in parallel to this thread?

I'm not doing it (and I'm not sure if it would be allowed on the Lending board), but feel free to create one.
Timelord2067's Trusted Testnet Thunder Timepayments?

[Timelord2067]

If there's a TESTNET version of eclair https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair-mobile/releases why aren't we using testnet bitcoins?

It's more fun to play with the real stuff

Can a new thread for TESTNET Bitcoin lightning be started to run in parallel to this thread?

I'm not doing it (and I'm not sure if it would be allowed on the Lending board), but feel free to create one.

No. No. No. Thank you for the suggestion, but no.  I thought we were just testing out the lightning network.

[Rath_]

No. No. No. Thank you for the suggestion, but no.  I thought we were just testing out the lightning network.

If you want to test it out without touching your mainnet coins then install Eclair Mobile Testnet, grab some free testnet coins and buy yourself a coffee via the Lightning Network.

[Timelord2067]

No. No. No. Thank you for the suggestion, but no.  I thought we were just testing out the lightning network.

If you want to test it out without touching your mainnet coins then install Eclair Mobile Testnet, grab some free testnet coins and buy yourself a coffee via the Lightning Network.

Thanks for the faucet link - I'd lost it quite a long time ago (it was empty at the time)


Am trying it again: (main-net)

Code:

lnbc1pw3spvspp5zhcz69a3jhq3emxphnvrtfnmytffvgm7w2mraqcxesr0n29v9lgsdq5235k6etvdaexgv3sxcmsxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrmksz4xx46f4paayk4ym0fn09t3vzdwqs8v2wm4q0puf54ej07dp5m0lyy4ps76z2z3rukgxyceuah8kc936q45tva9ze0ul4xp44mcpy5dq0v

[WhyFhy]

I stumbled upon this by accident, (I havn't been on Lending in ages)
LLLLL is almost a Tounge Twister! I'm really happy to see this service BTW! #StackingSats
I'm also stoked to see this many users playing with LN now!

[LoyceV]

Am trying it again: (main-net)

Code:

lnbc1pw3spvspp5zhcz69a3jhq3emxphnvrtfnmytffvgm7w2mraqcxesr0n29v9lgsdq5235k6etvdaexgv3sxcmsxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrmksz4xx46f4paayk4ym0fn09t3vzdwqs8v2wm4q0puf54ej07dp5m0lyy4ps76z2z3rukgxyceuah8kc936q45tva9ze0ul4xp44mcpy5dq0v

It was night here, so your request expired (that's a serious shortcoming of using 6 hour expiration times on a global payment system!). But there's another problem: since last night, Eclair Wallet tells me there's a temporary node problem so I can't send anything. I'll wait if this gets resolved or I may need to force close the channel.

Update: I can send up to 4 satoshi, anything larger gives an error. I'm not sure why.

I've funded BlueWallet, it's now waiting for confirmation. It has an annoying bug on Android: when entering the BTC amount, the keyboard doesn't show a decimal dot. I had to copy/paste the amount to be able to send less than 1 Bitcoin.

[Timelord2067]

It was night here, so your request expired (that's a serious shortcoming of using 6 hour expiration times on a global payment system!). But there's another problem: since last night, Eclair Wallet tells me there's a temporary node problem so I can't send anything. I'll wait if this gets resolved or I may need to force close the channel.

Update: I can send up to 4 satoshi, anything larger gives an error. I'm not sure why.

I've funded BlueWallet, it's now waiting for confirmation. It has an annoying bug on Android: when entering the BTC amount, the keyboard doesn't show a decimal dot. I had to copy/paste the amount to be able to send less than 1 Bitcoin.

Damm it! You were online a moment ago!

Code:

lnbc1pw339a4pp5k29mr7j4rqm8x3hk3xfzu2t9jxzvy9aldtskcxv65crfg5ja29sqdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq5kp53erns9t04y2mewfgk8nyafknv06a0jeefv95ptyylj8eku3hzcddmzeyppgl4lrr2acz2euqs7g67c0nagxq4qalamgzt5h7hksqh43msl

My channel (Node) seems OK, I think I have worked out that funds get shuffled about when a node is created sometimes the other end gains funds but the actual balance is showing in your wallet (when in fact it's not).

I guess it's in anticipation of the funds going out that they are "parked" elsewhere.

I'd say the funds don't go to miners, but to the "nodes" carrying the signal.  I might investigate seeing if I can keep a couple of connections open.  With more channels open, I'd say more funds are parked elsewhere.  Strange setup.  Plus there doesn't seem to be any actual way to send my funds out, I have to wait for a funds request to come in.

Code:

Re: Legendary LoyceV's Luscious, Loopy and Lip-smacking "Little Lightning Loans"

[Rath_]

-snip

Why don't you open a channel with LNchat's node? I reboot the server manually once a week so the downtime is negligible.

I guess it's in anticipation of the funds going out that they are "parked" elsewhere.

Coins are locked in a multi-signature address which is in control of both parties.

I'd say the funds don't go to miners, but to the "nodes" carrying the signal.  I might investigate seeing if I can keep a couple of connections open.  

The Lightning Network is an off-chain scaling solution so that's why miners don't participate in payments (except when closing and opening a channel). It works thanks to Hash Time Locked Contracts.

Plus there doesn't seem to be any actual way to send my funds out, I have to wait for a funds request to come in.

That's a known problem which has been already addressed. Sphinx solves it but it's available only to nodes which update to a specific branch.

[Timelord2067]

That pretty much answers my questions, thanks.

Why don't you open a channel with LNchat's node? Wink I reboot the server manually once a week so the downtime is negligible.

I'm working on it.

[LoyceV]

Damm it! You were online a moment ago!

Try again if you still want a 0.1 mBTC loan Just keep in mind I'm asleep during Amsterdam night time.

Code:

Re: Legendary LoyceV's Luscious, Loopy and Lip-smacking "Little Lightning Loans"

Lol, too cheesy

Why don't you open a channel with LNchat's node?

Judging by the Node Rank™, my current node (which works again) is much better connected.
If Eclair can't route a payment again, I now have a small amount in BlueWallet too. The main benefit: I could fund it with a low amount at low fee. The most annoying thing: it doesn't update balances realtime after a payment, I have to either refresh it or wait a bit.

I'm working on it.

I'd advise against taking a loan to take a Lightning Loan just to test LN

[bitmover]

I'm working on it.

I'd advise against taking a loan to take a Lightning Loan just to test LN

You won't be able to pay back the loan, because opening and closing channels costs miners fees , also txs to eclair wallet. So you will pay at least 4 transaction fees, and those open/close fees are quite obscure to me (spent much more than expected)

[Rath_]

-snip

Not to mention that he will also have to spend some coins in order to be able to receive payments. @Timelord2067 check out this website.

[Rath_]

@LoyceV it looks like that the problem of too high closing and opening fee has been addressed by Lightning Labs team. Users will be able to use either RBF or CPFP if the fee is too low. I will prepare a detailed post on the latest LND update tomorrow. Eclair Mobile is powered by Eclair's implementation of the Lightning Network so it won't be available for you anytime soon

[Timelord2067]

I'd advise against taking a loan to take a Lightning Loan just to test LN

You won't be able to pay back the loan, because opening and closing channels costs miners fees , also txs to eclair wallet. So you will pay at least 4 transaction fees, and those open/close fees are quite obscure to me (spent much more than expected)

Yeh I'm seeing there's a few coins that need to be locked away just to be able to transact on the Lightning Network.

Not to mention that he will also have to spend some coins in order to be able to receive payments. @Timelord2067 check out this website.

I'm looking at trying out testnet coins for a little while and will then try out the main-net version again.

Timelord2067's Trusted Testnet Thunder Timepayments?

Soon my precious...  

[LoyceV]

Bump! 10,000,000 milli-satoshis are waiting for a 7 day loan

[Timelord2067]

Trying again (I have inbound this time)

Code:

lnbc1pwj9h9wpp5g0rv83yfcjg5elzuejmdtxsefnlps6xzttj4gjgqkjhjkqy86yqsdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq4whdkcv375dy5k4xr5ndpmer5ae9pyak7ssnuwtdl6ypawruttxycp6f6au8l54m3xma4gjtcmtu8vxqeep3sg8j44prk6awz4qx5mqp4y9km9

I figure you're trying to redistribute the incoming from just one node across many channels?

[LoyceV]

Code:

lnbc1pwj9h9wpp5g0rv83yfcjg5elzuejmdtxsefnlps6xzttj4gjgqkjhjkqy86yqsdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq4whdkcv375dy5k4xr5ndpmer5ae9pyak7ssnuwtdl6ypawruttxycp6f6au8l54m3xma4gjtcmtu8vxqeep3sg8j44prk6awz4qx5mqp4y9km9

I used BlueWallet this time, and the payment is currently "in transit". I'm not sure how long it will stay that way, it may or may not complete.
BlueWallet used a whopping 100 sat fee.

I figure you're trying to redistribute the incoming from just one node across many channels?

That's something for the Lightning Network itself to figure out, but from what I've seen earlier, it didn't use multiple channels on my side.

[Rath_]

I figure you're trying to redistribute the incoming from just one node across many channels?

That's something for the Lightning Network itself to figure out, but from what I've seen earlier, it didn't use multiple channels on my side.

Payments can't be split automatically across multiple channels, yet. The only thing one can do is try sending a few smaller transactions but that might be too costly and take a lot of time.

[Timelord2067]

Payments can't be split automatically across multiple channels, yet. The only thing one can do is try sending a few smaller transactions but that might be too costly and take a lot of time.

On my test-net Eclair I have a few channels open with small amounts and a couple of bigger channel amounts.  I hadn't realised payments (outbound) wouldn't be split.


My main-net Eclair has one inbound good for BTC 0.01 so I should be able to receive your (LoyceV's) L-Loan, but alas, nothing as yet.


I'm being cautious about how much BTC I'm willing to commit to the Lightning Network as it seems to be one way in, but no way out.  Although the docs say it's good for traders, I'm figuring traders will want to cash out their acquired BTC and with channels being in or out traffic only, then they probably won't want to use it.  In saying that it'll probably become a closed system once enough bitcoin is committed to it.

Do you want to try sending me a request and I'll see if I can fill it from my end?

[LoyceV]

My main-net Eclair has one inbound good for BTC 0.01 so I should be able to receive your (LoyceV's) L-Loan, but alas, nothing as yet.

The payment that was "in transit" disappeared from BlueWallet without a trace (my balance wasn't reduced). I can only guess it couldn't find a channel.

Do you want to try sending me a request and I'll see if I can fill it from my end?

I could, but that would be the worst loan ever

[bitmover]

Electrum is adding Lightning Support in a few weeks.

Electrum’s founder Thomas Voegtlin told CoinDesk from the BIP001 blockchain event in Odessa, Ukraine, that work on the solution for sending lightning transactions with the Electrum wallet is now close to its official release.

While he declined to reveal a specific release date, Voegtlin said:

    “We’ve been doing this work for about a year in a separate branch [on GitHub] and we’ve reached the point when we are ready to merge it with our master branch. This is going to happen in the coming weeks until the end of July, and it means that the next major release will have lightning support.”

https://www.coindesk.com/electrum-wallet-is-adding-support-for-bitcoins-lightning-network

I think that a better wallet will certainly give us more transparency over the fees for creating/closing channels. I think that Eclair made a nice job because it is easy to use, but certainly it lacks control of the fees and transparency over the costs.

[Timelord2067]

Did you receive the micro tip a couple of days ago? 1 satoshi and 1/500th of a sat as the TX fee.

I now have 1.0002 sats more I can receive from others, so it looks like no lightning node receives any of the TX fees so the Lightning Network could possibly be a closed system?

[LoyceV]

Did you receive the micro tip a couple of days ago? 1 satoshi and 1/500th of a sat as the TX fee.

1 satoshi arrived at tippin.me I didn't check it earlier as nobody (else) uses it

I now have 1.0002 sats more I can receive from others, so it looks like no lightning node receives any of the TX fees so the Lightning Network could possibly be a closed system?

The Lightning Network is a closed system indeed. It seems your node charges 0.2% fee on all transactions, including small ones. For bigger transactions, other nodes in the channel might charge a fee too, so the node you're connected to pays them part of the fee.

[Timelord2067]

Did you receive the micro tip a couple of days ago? 1 satoshi and 1/500th of a sat as the TX fee.

1 satoshi arrived at tippin.me I didn't check it earlier as nobody (else) uses it

I saw the link on your mobile UID, so I thought I'd try it out to see if the main-net was connected.

I now have 1.0002 sats more I can receive from others, so it looks like no lightning node receives any of the TX fees so the Lightning Network could possibly be a closed system?

The Lightning Network is a closed system indeed. It seems your node charges 0.2% fee on all transactions, including small ones. For bigger transactions, other nodes in the channel might charge a fee too, so the node you're connected to pays them part of the fee.

I've got one connection in and my one out.

Code:

lnbc1pwjtk4vpp506yzzt4rvqvyquf58qpa7rrhyd97yfqn247a9nmarh3qjmcyprrqdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjquuf0083l0unn03hm4yu5wtv9u0uyjku56vwpw46eknxwj9l8q9sny4hucx2llw68vfkz6nvdcl8483py39hskht7canx49gt239cy7cpcrtm2p

My testnet has over a dozen out and none in.

*edit*

Drats! You were online a moment ago! Now you're offline again...

[LoyceV]

Code:

lnbc1pwjtk4vpp506yzzt4rvqvyquf58qpa7rrhyd97yfqn247a9nmarh3qjmcyprrqdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjquuf0083l0unn03hm4yu5wtv9u0uyjku56vwpw46eknxwj9l8q9sny4hucx2llw68vfkz6nvdcl8483py39hskht7canx49gt239cy7cpcrtm2p

It finally worked: 0.0001 BTC Lightning Loan sent! I paid 34 satoshi fee from BlueWallet.

[Timelord2067]

Code:

lnbc1pwjtk4vpp506yzzt4rvqvyquf58qpa7rrhyd97yfqn247a9nmarh3qjmcyprrqdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjquuf0083l0unn03hm4yu5wtv9u0uyjku56vwpw46eknxwj9l8q9sny4hucx2llw68vfkz6nvdcl8483py39hskht7canx49gt239cy7cpcrtm2p

It finally worked: 0.0001 BTC Lightning Loan sent! I paid 34 satoshi fee from BlueWallet.

Yep confirmed - have just received something 7e88212... Will be in touch in a day or two to repay.

[Timelord2067]

Yep confirmed - have just received something 7e88212... Will be in touch in a day or two to repay.

Did you want to try sending me a loan repayment link please?

[LoyceV]

I'll continue my experiences with Eclair Wallet here: A couple of days ago, I made a 1 sat/byte transaction with Eclair. It now has 60+ confirmations, but Eclair still says it's unconfirmed. In Settings > Network Infor, I clicked "RESET NETWORK DATABASE", and now it's okay again.

Did you want to try sending me a loan repayment link please?

This request for 0.101 mBTC  is  valid for 6 hours:

Code:

lnbc101u1pwjnxlxpp5x2r3zxkv8xgrm5u8rgyc7l27yd437ay925nmseldyyer2nddj00sdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq5cyl7nlnx3lt26s8j85hhss9v9gmscjg8hymt6kt49p2szt336szh442a95ewuzuqc5nxncwcx88792cv8mg7u6dyag9nldst0jkycgpluet68

However, Eclair is still reloading it's Lightning Network settings. This takes a while, so I'm not sure if this payment request works already.

[Timelord2067]

I'll continue my experiences with Eclair Wallet here: A couple of days ago, I made a 1 sat/byte transaction with Eclair. It now has 60+ confirmations, but Eclair still says it's unconfirmed. In Settings > Network Infor, I clicked "RESET NETWORK DATABASE", and now it's okay again.

Did you want to try sending me a loan repayment link please?

This request for 0.101 mBTC  is  valid for 6 hours:

Code:

lnbc101u1pwjnxlxpp5x2r3zxkv8xgrm5u8rgyc7l27yd437ay925nmseldyyer2nddj00sdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq5cyl7nlnx3lt26s8j85hhss9v9gmscjg8hymt6kt49p2szt336szh442a95ewuzuqc5nxncwcx88792cv8mg7u6dyag9nldst0jkycgpluet68

However, Eclair is still reloading it's Lightning Network settings. This takes a while, so I'm not sure if this payment request works already.

Apparently it's paid already before I can even get back to this thread.    (hash 3287111acc399....)

I've also discovered if you scan a wallet address you can send and receive via either the block chain or the lightning network, so Eclair has a home on my mobile device from now on.



Edit - are you wanting to share your node address to boost your channels list?

2nd edit:

Maybe Eclair didn't keep running in the background, I'll keep the screen on for a while. Try again?

I'm pretty certain Eclair doesn't run in the background.

[LoyceV]

Apparently it's paid already before I can even get back to this thread.    (hash 3287111acc399....)

Received! The only weird thing is that the label ("pay back") disappeared when you paid it.

I've also discovered if you scan a wallet address you can send and receive via either the block chain or the lightning network

I highly doubt that. You can use the same button to scan either a LN request or a Bitcoin address, but you can't send a LN payment directly to an addy.

Edit - are you wanting to share your node address to boost your channels list?

I'm not running a node.

I'm pretty certain Eclair doesn't run in the background.

Your payment arrived with Eclair in the background, but a few days back an on-chain payment only arrived when I opened the app. I think it's an Android setting, Android keeps closing apps that consume battery in the background (I installed Eclair on a tablet).

[Timelord2067]

I've also discovered if you scan a wallet address you can send and receive via either the block chain or the lightning network

I highly doubt that. You can use the same button to scan either a LN request or a Bitcoin address, but you can't send a LN payment directly to an addy.

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly - what I meant was (in Eclair) I can both receive and send on the block-chain by scanning the wallet address as easily as I can send or receive a lightning network transaction by scanning the relevant details.  IE I can do both LN and BC (Block Chain) with the one app, so Eclair ticks all the boxes which I wouldn't have even considered had you not started your Lightning Loans, so Kudos.

[LoyceV]

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly - what I meant was (in Eclair) I can both receive and send on the block-chain by scanning the wallet address as easily as I can send or receive a lightning network transaction by scanning the relevant details.  IE I can do both LN and BC (Block Chain) with the one app, so Eclair ticks all the boxes which I wouldn't have even considered had you not started your Lightning Loans, so Kudos.

You're welcome Experimenting with the Lightning Network is of course the main purpose of this topic, and loans with 100 satoshi interest are only meant to demonstrate the potential of LN

That being said, I'm not trusting Eclair with any significant amounts, as I have no way of knowing how secure it is.

[Rath_]

That being said, I'm not trusting Eclair with any significant amounts, as I have no way of knowing how secure it is.

You should be fine as long as you set up backups to Google Drive. They are automatically encrypted. Mobile wallets can be considered more secure than dedicated nodes since they are not reachable at all times (funds are not stored in a hot wallet). As for the timelocks, I have already explained them here.

[Broomy101]

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly - what I meant was (in Eclair) I can both receive and send on the block-chain by scanning the wallet address as easily as I can send or receive a lightning network transaction by scanning the relevant details.  IE I can do both LN and BC (Block Chain) with the one app, so Eclair ticks all the boxes which I wouldn't have even considered had you not started your Lightning Loans, so Kudos.

You're welcome Experimenting with the Lightning Network is of course the main purpose of this topic, and loans with 100 satoshi interest are only meant to demonstrate the potential of LN

That being said, I'm not trusting Eclair with any significant amounts, as I have no way of knowing how secure it is.

Hi I'm interested in this

[LoyceV]

Hi I'm interested in this

Considering your Newbie and Trust status, I'm willing to give 50% of the normal Little Lightning Loan amount. Please post a payment request.

[Timelord2067]

Hopefully this time there won't be as much trouble:

Code:

lnbc1pwndjw7pp5lnanrpzag9fuvdnk0lc8lhpsr6ekm3nchhwgdkucvnrna33dnd4qdqqxqrrssrzjqgxf94caleraf8fj9mkezqry0puh8hledsz688t45awharen46k5cz8ndgqqshqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqw8ldmplk5kz8u029u6ph4lemkyewe3cqagwfn5vw6l39cg7r0u6zz8ndgqqsnqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqtnug2hzj5kh5ufe3c34xk6nllrqm6exnt9u0sgrqlnt09aerv08jz8djyqqtucqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqf9jph7ldq5xz25hz8fcc0huzxkpmyxdprpq6hvsdfrkmnnr364dsdkfxdtszklxkk2an9gt3akg2vvswexnjhy79qqka4dxlc60sasqpjr27n8

[LoyceV]

Hopefully this time there won't be as much trouble:

Can I postpone this for about a week and a half? I'm currently out of LN-balance, and it's almost Family Road Trip time

[LoyceV]

I've funded my LN-wallet again (confirmation shouldn't take long at 1 sat/byte), so this service to test the Lightning Network with a Little Lightning Loan is available again.

Since fees are currently so low, Eclair allowed me to transfer almost all funds out of the channel. The current channel balance on my side is just over 3000 sat only!

[asu]

Testing purpose Loyce

Learning more a bit on how it works.

Lightning Invoice:
lnbc100u1pw5sg97pp56zjvwk06kzfylj8krnpypgkdpq406ajq0dtsh39749rpjk0j3uasdqqcqzpg lzgtjqufdwqqygfq8kdygyxp63sueqcydayuz7v0gf7gy6a85g0ks9mp2fk0ka2026fc0e4cyamfk8x q2uxq8aay5ps23w2jdvljl8cp605ql8

[LoyceV]

Lightning Invoice:
lnbc100u1pw5sg97pp56zjvwk06kzfylj8krnpypgkdpq406ajq0dtsh39749rpjk0j3uasdqqcqzpg lzgtjqufdwqqygfq8kdygyxp63sueqcydayuz7v0gf7gy6a85g0ks9mp2fk0ka2026fc0e4cyamfk8x q2uxq8aay5ps23w2jdvljl8cp605ql8

It expired already And my funding transaction is still unconfirmed anyway, fees went up right after I broadcasted it.
Try again in a bit?

[asu]

Let’s try it again a newly fresh one

Lightning Invoice:
lnbc100u1pw53rr2pp5kjekmgeu9dmducyj3rpsxgfv25xwlepf3hyyzgrmqx86vvuyfnusdqqcqzpg zzn33qfmm5wmznkhawsxst2rw0u2h7vd9lu7ymh3nje8gv25fqzzqqypedsxw93608wx2qf54nsxksc vn2wu4xtx0dplt5jryvzhkjqqc0k5m3 Expired waiting for you to online and make a new one again.

[LoyceV]

@asu: I'm online now If possible, set the expiration to 6 hours (it's currently set to 1 hour). Eclair Wallet allows this.
One hour or less is great for merchants with automated systems to reduce the risk of volatility, but it's terrible for human interaction online.

[asu]

I just created this payment request 1min. ago

Can’t find how to set the expiration, is it because i’m using Bluewallet mobile (ios) and they don’t have that feature?

Lighting Invoice:
lnbc100u1pw5j8y5pp5khsk5thauy3m8743kze4e9yvyhxpgkrmm890u84tza8fq2ekwvgsdqqcqzpg 574z7haetsufd756m3zgm8fcnkvzvfqna7strmsjre3v0574vpf43g9xff4cd0f74y8xhk9567tfq3z d694900czz8hcujsu89yelkcqvr2puu

[LoyceV]

Can’t find how to set the expiration, is it because i’m using Bluewallet mobile (ios) and they don’t have that feature?

I can't find it in Bluewallet either.

Lighting Invoice:
lnbc100u1pw5j8y5pp5khsk5thauy3m8743kze4e9yvyhxpgkrmm890u84tza8fq2ekwvgsdqqcqzpg 574z7haetsufd756m3zgm8fcnkvzvfqna7strmsjre3v0574vpf43g9xff4cd0f74y8xhk9567tfq3z d694900czz8hcujsu89yelkcqvr2puu

Little Lightning Loan sent! I used Bluewallet and paid a whopping 30 sat fee.

[asu]

I can't find it in Bluewallet either.

So they don’t have that feature.

Does Eclair have the time that you can set the expiration max to 6 hours? Don’t know because of I don’t have Android phone.

Little Lightning Loan sent! I used Bluewallet and paid a whopping 30 sat fee.

Received.

That’s fast though. Just get used to waiting more than 50 minutes using blockchain transaction, pretty impressive.

[LoyceV]

Does Eclair have the time that you can set the expiration max to 6 hours?

Yes: 10 minutes, 1 hour or 6 hours.

That’s fast though. Just get used to waiting more than 50 minutes using blockchain transaction, pretty impressive.

Most of the delay was caused by me, the transaction itself took only seconds.

Yesterday, I deposited some shitcoin to an exchange, and I was reminded how long it takes to get a few confirmations. Most of the time I'm not waiting for a result from a transaction, but when I do, an hour is just annoying.
Despite a few hiccups, I have high hopes for LN, and so far this topic has introduced a few people to testing it

[asu]

Most of the delay was caused by me, the transaction itself took only seconds.

Yesterday, I deposited some shitcoin to an exchange, and I was reminded how long it takes to get a few confirmations. Most of the time I'm not waiting for a result from a transaction, but when I do, an hour is just annoying.
Despite a few hiccups, I have high hopes for LN, and so far this topic has introduced a few people to testing it

Yeah, It’ll really depends now from the sender on how it will takes.

At first I actually have in my mind on how LN works because its a little bit the same to coins.ph who mostly filipinos use bitcoin wallet. But it only works to coins.ph user to coins.ph user transact without broadcasting their transaction on blockchain, instant, and no transaction fee at all.

More likely the same on how LN works based from my understanding.
(Loyce channel —> sent 10,000 sats —> Asu channel)
- Small Fee
- Instant
- Without broadcasting their transaction on blockchain.

Am I right? or I’ve missing something that I don’t know on LN

Anyways, I’m ready to pay my Little Lightning Loan Loyce

[Rath_]

More likely the same on how LN works based from my understanding.
(Loyce channel —> sent 10,000 sats —> Asu channel)
- Small Fee
- Instant
- Without broadcasting their transaction on blockchain.

Am I right? or I’ve missing something that I don’t know on LN

Actually, it's a little bit more complex You would be right if Bluewallet's and Loyce's nodes were connected to each other directly; meaning that they would have a channel in which both of them had some coins on their sides. In such a case, there would be no fees. However, you paid a really small fee. This means that your transaction has been routed by some node which is connected to both Loyce and BlueWallet or a much longer path was found.

Have you seen my LN FAQ and the basics of the Lightning Network? Feel free to post your further questions there.

[Timelord2067]

Hi again,

Code:

lnbc1pw5jarvpp5cstd55yvxhz39zt0hultnv455cnqgkepfg3d0mm5ej37272x76psdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqw2sxwe993h5pcm4dxzpvttgza8zhkqxpgffcrf5v25nwpr3cmfg7z80dyqq2cqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqqq3j6r5d8zcd5d9xmg2zlgmmeplx70mr02755te4yawp29anmmq3l2yqzn848el7gmmq4r09tx0nhtl7u6tv9drzrzsknxncaknfpkgpgsphuj

Thanks,

[LoyceV]

Anyways, I’m ready to pay my Little Lightning Loan Loyce

Maybe I should start setting a minimum duration I'll get you a payment request a bit later.

You would be right if Bluewallet's and Loyce's nodes were connected to each other directly; meaning that they would have a channel in which both of them had some coins on their sides. In such a case, there would be no fees.

Actually, I sent from my Bluewallet to asu's Bluewallet, and since these are custodial, I'm not even sure why it asked a fee at all. Maybe it's part of their payment model (which is totally fine of course!).

Code:

lnbc1pw5jarvpp5cstd55yvxhz39zt0hultnv455cnqgkepfg3d0mm5ej37272x76psdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqw2sxwe993h5pcm4dxzpvttgza8zhkqxpgffcrf5v25nwpr3cmfg7z80dyqq2cqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqqq3j6r5d8zcd5d9xmg2zlgmmeplx70mr02755te4yawp29anmmq3l2yqzn848el7gmmq4r09tx0nhtl7u6tv9drzrzsknxncaknfpkgpgsphuj

I'm sending it, but Bluewallet says "payment is in transit". I'm not sure if it will go through or not.

[Timelord2067]

Eclair seems to disconnect from the network almost immediately after my Android device's screen saver kicks in.

I've got Zap on PC but no inbound...

[LoyceMobile]

Eclair seems to disconnect from the network almost immediately after my Android device's screen saver kicks in.

That's probably an Android setting, something to minimize data and/or battery use.

[LoyceV]

Anyways, I’m ready to pay my Little Lightning Loan Loyce

Let me know when you're here, I'll request through Bluewallet, and I think those payment requests expire in just 1 hour.

[asu]

Let me know when you're here, I'll request through Bluewallet, and I think those payment requests expire in just 1 hour.

I’m here now, just got home.

[LoyceV]

I’m here now, just got home.

Please pay back 10100 sat (including 1% interest):

Code:

lnbc101u1pw5mqh6pp5mtwem4d6f9ylggevmp3ex89wxwqcz65h4xl0n27nx0pzvh79gydsdqqcqzpgdxl40t52cg3lfl9mr7nfflc8shxpuq3dmwsfyglevuvw2y97kl3qhdw4w944ks6esehel9t6p4uc38hgkc5fwqqjdp9axzdv0kgvncgqhd0f5t

[asu]

Please pay back 10100 sat (including 1% interest):

Code:

lnbc101u1pw5mqh6pp5mtwem4d6f9ylggevmp3ex89wxwqcz65h4xl0n27nx0pzvh79gydsdqqcqzpgdxl40t52cg3lfl9mr7nfflc8shxpuq3dmwsfyglevuvw2y97kl3qhdw4w944ks6esehel9t6p4uc38hgkc5fwqqjdp9axzdv0kgvncgqhd0f5t

Sent. Bluewallet charged me 30 sats like you when you send the loan to me, It’s like their set of fee in every transaction that will made.

Edit: Thanks! I’ll try next time four in a row payment request in one time, hopefully you find it interesting.

[LoyceV]

It’s like their set of fee in every transaction that will made.

So 0.3% is their "fixed" internal rate? I've had external transactions from Bluewallet without any fee. Weird, but I'm totally fine with these very small fees (especially since they must pay more to consolidate my on-chain deposit).

Payment received, thanks

[asu]

Hello, Loyce

I’d like to try it again. Two payment request?

Code:

lnbc100u1pw4dz6gpp5nnhzawurg8pc0ep3686v5ypcylf830yt2vwxj2yce704pzvquwgqdqqcqzpgjhvyc0pqxmfmt04wvn88h4pn2qx4c2attytadfygzkccwk8438mn5cv8z8fnc4hdnhqzw6nffe422v32qsnnfz2a76sdc3drlszunfcp8t5j0n

10,000 sats

Code:

lnbc100u1pw4dz6lpp5argygjuy0p69e9fy45fkqcr76plxtae2cysq76lxqfjuh8jp4j6sdqqcqzpgfefarzdlttazth9p9gse5esp24uh987rztqgssvm44mjlam2pjkku8whld7kgkkcf6lc8amupxcrftgqd8a2czc7f8w94739t0306fsq554lxj

10,000 sats

[LoyceV]

Code:

lnbc100u1pw4dz6gpp5nnhzawurg8pc0ep3686v5ypcylf830yt2vwxj2yce704pzvquwgqdqqcqzpgjhvyc0pqxmfmt04wvn88h4pn2qx4c2attytadfygzkccwk8438mn5cv8z8fnc4hdnhqzw6nffe422v32qsnnfz2a76sdc3drlszunfcp8t5j0n

10,000 sats

Code:

lnbc100u1pw4dz6lpp5argygjuy0p69e9fy45fkqcr76plxtae2cysq76lxqfjuh8jp4j6sdqqcqzpgfefarzdlttazth9p9gse5esp24uh987rztqgssvm44mjlam2pjkku8whld7kgkkcf6lc8amupxcrftgqd8a2czc7f8w94739t0306fsq554lxj

10,000 sats

I've funded both, each with 30 sat fee.

[asu]

I've funded both, each with 30 sat fee.

Both payment received, that small fee though.

LN is so interesting. Hope there’s an app that legitimate to used to transact big amount, ~phew. Thanks

[LoyceV]

Hope there’s an app that legitimate to used to transact big amount,

There are exchanges. I've only tested coinplaza.it (reflink in LoyceMobile's sig).
I didn't need KYC to exchange up to 100 euro per day, but I've only exchanged much smaller amounts. No other exchange allows me to buy just 1000 Dogecoin with Bitcoin Lightning

[Timelord2067]

I have a channel open to a node in Amsterdam so this should work...

Code:

lnbc1pw4lfjrpp5awnhfdh59ayr6m2dmhtv7m3na5m2thr0z64q50e90vj8fenwaglsdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqfs04d3nqehd0vwehxu2p7kg0c2hn5tsn6r5629q69c6rawy8wu8wzgr6qqqsjsqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqw2sxwe993h5pcm4dxzpvttgza8zhkqxpgffcrf5v25nwpr3cmfg7z80dyqq2cqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqlccx8znjdlm3405lsxc6matuxhnaf9q35l8a0gl5ytmkyz5zg0nxw92grxvm49sue08k67rygtsh250xla9wz7u4m2dm3c7dw7ny9tspk5ujhx

[LoyceV]

Code:

lnbc1pw4lfjrpp5awnhfdh59ayr6m2dmhtv7m3na5m2thr0z64q50e90vj8fenwaglsdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqfs04d3nqehd0vwehxu2p7kg0c2hn5tsn6r5629q69c6rawy8wu8wzgr6qqqsjsqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqw2sxwe993h5pcm4dxzpvttgza8zhkqxpgffcrf5v25nwpr3cmfg7z80dyqq2cqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqlccx8znjdlm3405lsxc6matuxhnaf9q35l8a0gl5ytmkyz5zg0nxw92grxvm49sue08k67rygtsh250xla9wz7u4m2dm3c7dw7ny9tspk5ujhx

Loan funded: I've sent 10,000 sat to "Roaming LN wallet" with 34 sat fee.

Code:

lnbc100u1pw4dz6gpp5nnhzawurg8pc0ep3686v5ypcylf830yt2vwxj2yce704pzvquwgqdqqcqzpgjhvyc0pqxmfmt04wvn88h4pn2qx4c2attytadfygzkccwk8438mn5cv8z8fnc4hdnhqzw6nffe422v32qsnnfz2a76sdc3drlszunfcp8t5j0n

10,000 sats

Code:

lnbc100u1pw4dz6lpp5argygjuy0p69e9fy45fkqcr76plxtae2cysq76lxqfjuh8jp4j6sdqqcqzpgfefarzdlttazth9p9gse5esp24uh987rztqgssvm44mjlam2pjkku8whld7kgkkcf6lc8amupxcrftgqd8a2czc7f8w94739t0306fsq554lxj

10,000 sats

I've funded both, each with 30 sat fee.

It's pay back time
Please pay 20,200 sats:

Code:

lnbc202u1pw4lt97pp5wttuvmnnkdp972ta44g0ue8nx94tln8q8667hgv6xrnjjwp8fr7sdqqcqzpgszngd9kpmuer3690q5a2jntnhce48dl66maxwzm99l77kwx8d58ht27jn57s53h3gsgarr2v8lrzs2y5tcv0rmaghm7qty3upwe4y6qps0e6c2

[Timelord2067]

Code:

lnbc1pw4lfjrpp5awnhfdh59ayr6m2dmhtv7m3na5m2thr0z64q50e90vj8fenwaglsdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqfs04d3nqehd0vwehxu2p7kg0c2hn5tsn6r5629q69c6rawy8wu8wzgr6qqqsjsqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqw2sxwe993h5pcm4dxzpvttgza8zhkqxpgffcrf5v25nwpr3cmfg7z80dyqq2cqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqlccx8znjdlm3405lsxc6matuxhnaf9q35l8a0gl5ytmkyz5zg0nxw92grxvm49sue08k67rygtsh250xla9wz7u4m2dm3c7dw7ny9tspk5ujhx

Loan funded: I've sent 10,000 sat to "Roaming LN wallet" with 34 sat fee.

Thanks, have got it - please send a repay request in um five or six hours time (if you're still on) and I'll try making a repayment.

*edit* am home now, feel free to send a repay request.

Regards,

[LoyceV]

*edit* am home now, feel free to send a repay request.

I lowered the interest by 50% (only 16 sat the fee I paid): because of the early pay back:

Code:

lnbc100500n1pwkqz4cpp50ruc82js5txalzfknmjrl729axfuvumxck8yjty4jge70fdfjr0sdqqcqzpgfetmyy7g6tqj54pf5lmfpk8vrz0n9088m9653dparnhg3yhkavsnntwj7wjg7rrha0juvza0nm0gajj8rwcymudsgc2wk09jqfkgn7cpp9nvdj

[Timelord2067]

*edit* am home now, feel free to send a repay request.

I lowered the interest by 50% (only 16 sat the fee I paid): because of the early pay back:

Code:

lnbc100500n1pwkqz4cpp50ruc82js5txalzfknmjrl729axfuvumxck8yjty4jge70fdfjr0sdqqcqzpgfetmyy7g6tqj54pf5lmfpk8vrz0n9088m9653dparnhg3yhkavsnntwj7wjg7rrha0juvza0nm0gajj8rwcymudsgc2wk09jqfkgn7cpp9nvdj

Paid via my ZAP LN wallet...

cb256ac2588b784f81807e5621e7c61b16e23c7312c190f5b10b6fbcf98a7323 (and it went via Germany, not Amsterdam node too)

[LoyceV]

Paid via my ZAP LN wallet...

Received

I'm taking your quote from another topic here:

Am trying to get tippin working, like everything lightning related, I just don't seem to have enough connections or a large enough channel.  Just some of LN's failings.  Main net broadcasts a transaction, while LN tries ten times to find a path then gives up.

I'm now only using Bluewallet (custodial), it has less problems than my own channels had. I'm hoping this will chance once LN matures, at least this wallet doesn't tell me I can't send a payment.

[asu]

It's pay back time
Please pay 20,200 sats:

Code:

lnbc202u1pw4lt97pp5wttuvmnnkdp972ta44g0ue8nx94tln8q8667hgv6xrnjjwp8fr7sdqqcqzpgszngd9kpmuer3690q5a2jntnhce48dl66maxwzm99l77kwx8d58ht27jn57s53h3gsgarr2v8lrzs2y5tcv0rmaghm7qty3upwe4y6qps0e6c2

Sorry for the delay Loyce. The invoice payment request has already expired, please make a new invoice request

[LoyceV]

Sorry for the delay Loyce. The invoice payment request has already expired, please make a new invoice request

No problem Here's a new one, for 20,200 sat:

Code:

lnbc202u1pwkqs8npp5ugd494s98hzhdvqlkck0zrnhqcg0txxuxetr4wjudvwykd298n6sdqqcqzpgwdf54v69xw355a85t7uqqsung53yxxpqkhc9tfkma8ffdka74v9netj0c6ap2u28fx677d9pmh9qr344nzlmqswefupr72z75nu7gvsp5jgglp

[asu]

No problem Here's a new one, for 20,200 sat:

Code:

lnbc202u1pwkqs8npp5ugd494s98hzhdvqlkck0zrnhqcg0txxuxetr4wjudvwykd298n6sdqqcqzpgwdf54v69xw355a85t7uqqsung53yxxpqkhc9tfkma8ffdka74v9netj0c6ap2u28fx677d9pmh9qr344nzlmqswefupr72z75nu7gvsp5jgglp

Sent with 30 sats fee as usual. Thanks for the help I enjoyed the 3 casinos you sent to me but I end up losing some of my satoshi lol. Helped out some of my countrymen also with the help of that 3 casino’s, helps them to lose their satoshi also

[LoyceV]

Sent with 30 sats fee as usual.

Received! I expected a higher fee for a larger transaction, now it looks like 30 sat is the standard fee for transactions from Bluewallet to Bluewallet.

Thanks for the help I enjoyed the 3 casinos you sent to me but I end up losing some of my satoshi lol. Helped out some of my countrymen also with the help of that 3 casino’s, helps them to lose their satoshi also

But have you fed the chickens yet?

[asu]

But have you fed the chickens yet?

Oh yeah,
Sent 5 Times Little Lightning Help 3 sats fee per transaction

[DireWolfM14]

But have you fed the chickens yet?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over?  You pay bitcoin to watch the chickens eat?  Do you think the farmer is gonna let these chickens starve if you don't pay?  Shivering shit on a shingle!  

My neighbors are tickled pink that I let their chickens clean the slugs and snails out of my garden for free.  Maybe I should charge them for saving them money on chicken feed.  Chicken feed high in Omega 3...  I suppose I do get free eggs from time to time.

[LoyceMobile]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over?  You pay bitcoin to watch the chickens eat?  Do you think the farmer is gonna let these chickens starve if you don't pay?  Shivering shit on a shingle!

It's not about the chickens of course, all I see is someone who built something, hooked it to a webcam, and added the Lightning Network to operate it. That, I like!

LN is still experimental and isn't used much yet, but I've seen close to a dozen different wallets already. I believe LN can get really big, and I like to encourage development of applications.

[Timelord2067]

I'm now only using Bluewallet (custodial), it has less problems than my own channels had. I'm hoping this will chance once LN matures, at least this wallet doesn't tell me I can't send a payment.

ZAP doesn't recognise tippin requests, one of my eclair wallets can't find a path, while the other found a path to tippin straight away.


Almost OT

My two eclair testnet wallets have numerous channels, but neither of them seems to have any traffic despite some inbound being available.  (I've got ~6 BTC combined and even bought inbound (which never seemed to appear) I can go up to ~100 BTC of testnet coins, but creating that many channels with a max of 0.1677721 each is tedious)


If you hear of any testnet LN wallets for PC I'd appreciate it if you could let me know.  I could definitely get something going that doesn't disconnect whenever the screen saver is activated in the same way Eclair does.

[LoyceV]

I'm now only using Bluewallet (custodial), it has less problems than my own channels had. I'm hoping this will chance once LN matures, at least this wallet doesn't tell me I can't send a payment.

ZAP doesn't recognise tippin requests, one of my eclair wallets can't find a path, while the other found a path to tippin straight away.

So I guess this was you:

Code:

Aug 24, 2019No message+9648 sat

It worked, thanks

My two eclair testnet wallets have numerous channels, but neither of them seems to have any traffic despite some inbound being available.  (I've got ~6 BTC combined and even bought inbound (which never seemed to appear) I can go up to ~100 BTC of testnet coins, but creating that many channels with a max of 0.1677721 each is tedious)

I've never used testnet, I always consider it to be for developers, while I (as a user) prefer to play around with real Bitcoins. I just stick to small amounts.

I could definitely get something going that doesn't disconnect whenever the screen saver is activated in the same way Eclair does.

Isn't that an Android power/data saving feature?

[Timelord2067]

I could definitely get something going that doesn't disconnect whenever the screen saver is activated in the same way Eclair does.

Isn't that an Android power/data saving feature?

Probably - if I don't have it running I might end up never starting it up.  (It's all an exercise for me at the moment).

[LoyceV]

i'm new to this . i need a loan for 0.016 BTC . can you help me?

No. I don't give reading lessons.

Deleted

[LoyceV]

Bump

[DireWolfM14]

I'm almost ready to request a loan.  I don't really need it, just want to learn about lightning, support this effort, and have some fun feeding chickens.

But I ran into a snag:
I downloaded and installed Eclair
I sent mBTC0.5
Tried to open a channel
I was informed I needed a minimum of mBTC1 to open a channel
I sent another mBTC0.9+ from the change address of the first transaction
I opened a channel before the first transaction (mBTC0.5) had 6 confirmations
I waited
The channel finally went to "Normal" but it still said the amount I could receive is 0. 

Why can't I receive any coins?  I've since closed the channel (mutual,) and now I'm waiting for that transaction to complete.  Now that the funding transactions have plenty of confirmations, if I open another channel will I be able to receive?  What did I do wrong?  Other than not reading this thread thoroughly, and being impatient?

[PrimeNumber7]

<>

Why can't I receive any coins? 

When you open a channel, the other party will need to fund the channel with you if you are going to receive coin. The amount you send to fund the channel is the amount the other party can receive in the channel and each party may find different amounts to start the channel.

From what I have seen, most channels will be funded by one person. There are some websites that allow you to “rent” inbound receiving capacity for a percentage of the capacity plus a fixed amount and they will “guarantee” the channel be open a predetermined minimum time, but this cannot be enforced.

[LoyceMobile]

Why can't I receive any coins?

All funds are on your side of the channel. See:

After opening a LN channel, you need to make a payment first to get inbound capacity. I bought 1000 Doge at https://www.coinplaza.it/ (ANN thread), but you can also exchange Bitcoin Lightning for Bitcoin.

In Eclair, you may need to enable receiving funds in Settings too.

[DireWolfM14]

In Eclair, you may need to enable receiving funds in Settings too.

That part I figured out.

All funds are on your side of the channel. See:

After opening a LN channel, you need to make a payment first to get inbound capacity. I bought 1000 Doge at https://www.coinplaza.it/ (ANN thread), but you can also exchange Bitcoin Lightning for Bitcoin.

I didn't realize I needed to make a payment first.  Coinplaza.it isn't available to US residents so I can't use them.  Maybe I'll feed some chickens, while I eat some chicken during my lunch break today.  Or, I could pay back my Lightning Loan before I borrow it...

[LoyceV]

Or, I could pay back my Lightning Loan before I borrow it...

That'll only work if you pay a very high interest (the channel reserve).
I can get you 1000 Doge if you want too, just post an addy and I'll get you a LN request.

[DireWolfM14]

I can get you 1000 Doge if you want too, just post an addy and I'll get you a LN request.

That sounds good, let's do that.  My DOGE address: DHoyadiVDMFcgbPPaR5spBL1znxdedsbWJ
I've opened another channel, so lets see if it works.  Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.

Code:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
03 SEP 2019
DireWolfM14's DOGE address: DHoyadiVDMFcgbPPaR5spBL1znxdedsbWJ
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
157v67atJjnx7Fdi2wmcBBpChugHNmDWup
IBrXl+445QjU5c+Hehl96zKAkq5D4nVqwg0dbMnJF8tJR+k5AhfbZV5h/jmhxO5JBv9cPyHxXEmSgmIUlfpy0DQ=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Signed with staked address.

ETA:  Fixed the date in the signed message. 

[LoyceV]

I can get you 1000 Doge if you want too, just post an addy and I'll get you a LN request.

That sounds good, let's do that.  My DOGE address: DHoyadiVDMFcgbPPaR5spBL1znxdedsbWJ

Send anything from Min: 25252.52 SAT to Max: 1028641.28 SAT to:

Code:

lnbc252525300p1pwkax5hpp5uluan5s***removed because I removed it from coinplaza***mtxz5gm7xdp3spya7lx5

Code:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
03 SEP 2019
DireWolfM14's DOGE address: DHoyadiVDMFcgbPPaR5spBL1znxdedsbWJ
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
157v67atJjnx7Fdi2wmcBBpChugHNmDWup
IBrXl+445QjU5c+Hehl96zKAkq5D4nVqwg0dbMnJF8tJR+k5AhfbZV5h/jmhxO5JBv9cPyHxXEmSgmIUlfpy0DQ=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Signed with staked address.

I didn't check the signed message. Partially because it's less than 3 dollars, but also because you're the one funding the LN exchange to Doge.
If anyone would need to sign, it would be me, but again: less than $3 I'm not sure how long it's valid.

[Timelord2067]

Hello again.

Code:

lnbc1pwkax5xpp5fa04rpsqmax0wkgdjqflt23tfl7j4w46dlaxq5ngdpmjt3ql45rqdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqw2sxwe993h5pcm4dxzpvttgza8zhkqxpgffcrf5v25nwpr3cmfg7z80dyqq2cqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqfs04d3nqehd0vwehxu2p7kg0c2hn5tsn6r5629q69c6rawy8wu8wzgr6qqqsjsqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqjxxghvca8cxe6enlr25esvxcyk6ql7xywrh0tch6lzpyaeewfh4ywl9jm92eaahfh3z3zs7lmd7l0c3hwjw0x5u2cd67elrhz9qsh6qpmqqamx

Thanks,

[DireWolfM14]

Send anything from Min: 25252.52 SAT to Max: 1028641.28 SAT to:

Code:

lnbc252525300p1pwkax5hpp5uluan5sek2h78ucjxulqz5txe2erjcyum4xkh4gy97u74qfgryasdp68qux2dt9x5ekxttp8qmrztf4x56rzttpx5cnztfhvsmnjwp3v4jkvc3hvyxq97zvuqcqp2rzjqfvy9ta9ntgzgpuycxwstz2g39mak79vheh9wdcavr8tmrqna8xtzzx5vqqqq4gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqqgq9q7kamt5cmg2usxdrvelxhucmddtxc969fkfd80w25m5szjymk6sk9uvdka470ck50kvs42sxku3rtxlgl43awrxlp4amtxz5gm7xdp3spya7lx5

Okay, I pasted the invoice into the wallet, and it automatically calculated how much to send, but it looks like the transaction includes the whole balance of the channel.  And it's still confirming.

Does this look right?

[LoyceV]

Okay, I pasted the invoice into the wallet, and it automatically calculated how much to send, but it looks like the transaction includes the whole balance of the channel.  And it's still confirming.

Does this look right?

No
That's an on-chain transaction, while I sent you a LN request. I don't know how that can happen.

Decoder for Lightning Payment Requests shows this for the request I posted:

Code:

Payment Info:
Network
bitcoin mainnet
Amount
0.0002525253 BTC
Date
Tue, 03 Sep 2019 16:53:43 GMT
Payment Hash
e7f9d9d219b2afe3f312373e015166cab239609cdd4d6bd5042fb9ea8128193b
Description
88e5e53c-a861-5541-a511-7d7981eefb7a
Expiration Time
31536000 seconds
Min Final CLTV Expiry
10
Routing Info
Public Key
025842afa59ad0240784c19d0589488977db78acbe6e57371d60cebd8c13e9ccb1
Short Channel Id
08d4600000550000
Fee Base Msat
1000
Fee Proportional Millimonths
1
CLTV Expiry Delta
40
Signature
R value
f5bbb5d31b42b903346ccfcd7e636d6acd82e8a9b25a77b954dd20291376d42c
S value
5e31b6ed7cfc5a8fb3215540d6e446b37d1fac7ae19be1af76b30a88df8cd0c6
Recovery Flag
1
Signing Data
6c6e6263323532353235333030700badd352e10d39fe7674866cabf8fcc48dcf805459b2ac8e582737535af5410bee7aa04a064ec1a1d1c1c329ab29a99b196b09c1b18969a9a9a1896b09a9898969bb21b9c9c18b2b2b3311bb086017c2670180054314809610abe966b40901e13067416252225df6de2b2f9b95cdc75833af6304fa732c4235180000154000000000fa00000000400a00
Checksum
ya7lx5

As far as I know, it's not possible to pay this with an on-chain transaction. I don't know how you got there

Your transaction sent funds to bc1qtm6y3c3vnplncu7zqf8w2zzafxgrxqxdgp6gzlc4ad8zzfx53auqusdjqk, are you sure you didn't copy/paste an addy instead of the LN request?

[DireWolfM14]

No
That's an on-chain transaction, while I sent you a LN request. I don't know how that can happen.

Lol, operator error is how that happens.

Your transaction sent funds to bc1qtm6y3c3vnplncu7zqf8w2zzafxgrxqxdgp6gzlc4ad8zzfx53auqusdjqk, are you sure you didn't copy/paste an addy instead of the LN request?

100% certain I pasted the lightning request.  The funny thing is the funds look like they're being transferred back to my wallet, the funds are still there, just minus the transaction fees, and now it's waiting for confirmations.  I know I didn't paste that bc1 address into my wallet.  Oh well, I'll wait for the transaction to confirm and I'll give it another shot.

[LoyceV]

Oh well, I'll wait for the transaction to confirm and I'll give it another shot.

Weird, but good thing it's your own address
You don't need to wait for this to confirm, you won't need these on-chain funds for the LN request. Let's put if this way: if it allows you to choose a fee, you're using on-chain instead of LN.

Code:

lnbc1pwkax5xpp5fa04rpsqmax0wkgdjqflt23tfl7j4w46dlaxq5ngdpmjt3ql45rqdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqw2sxwe993h5pcm4dxzpvttgza8zhkqxpgffcrf5v25nwpr3cmfg7z80dyqq2cqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqfs04d3nqehd0vwehxu2p7kg0c2hn5tsn6r5629q69c6rawy8wu8wzgr6qqqsjsqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqjxxghvca8cxe6enlr25esvxcyk6ql7xywrh0tch6lzpyaeewfh4ywl9jm92eaahfh3z3zs7lmd7l0c3hwjw0x5u2cd67elrhz9qsh6qpmqqamx

I can't send 10 000 satoshi. It says: "Payment failed. Does the receiver have enough inbound capacity?".

[DireWolfM14]

The wallet shows 1.32577 mBTC in the channel, but when I try pasting the code it tells me I don't have enough funds in the open channels.  The channel state is "waiting for funding confirmed," so I may have to wait.  The home screen still shows a balance in the wallet, so I'm guessing the funds aren't lost into the ether...

[LoyceV]

The channel state is "waiting for funding confirmed,"

I don't remember the exact details, so just a guess: does it have/need 6 confirmations?

[Timelord2067]

Code:

lnbc1pwkax5xpp5fa04rpsqmax0wkgdjqflt23tfl7j4w46dlaxq5ngdpmjt3ql45rqdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqw2sxwe993h5pcm4dxzpvttgza8zhkqxpgffcrf5v25nwpr3cmfg7z80dyqq2cqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqfs04d3nqehd0vwehxu2p7kg0c2hn5tsn6r5629q69c6rawy8wu8wzgr6qqqsjsqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqjxxghvca8cxe6enlr25esvxcyk6ql7xywrh0tch6lzpyaeewfh4ywl9jm92eaahfh3z3zs7lmd7l0c3hwjw0x5u2cd67elrhz9qsh6qpmqqamx

I can't send 10 000 satoshi. It says: "Payment failed. Does the receiver have enough inbound capacity?".

My total inbound is 0.0101 split between a 0.0002333 and 0.0007788

[DireWolfM14]

The channel state is "waiting for funding confirmed,"

I don't remember the exact details, so just a guess: does it have/need 6 confirmations?

I believe so, but not certain.  I have one confirmation now, I'll keep and eye on it to see if I can make the determination if that's accurate.

[Timelord2067]

I believe so, but not certain.  I have one confirmation now, I'll keep and eye on it to see if I can make the determination if that's accurate.

In Éclair you have to toggle between "on-chain" and the lightning-network when making a request. Perhaps you hadn't toggled that setting?

[DireWolfM14]

I believe so, but not certain.  I have one confirmation now, I'll keep and eye on it to see if I can make the determination if that's accurate.

In Éclair you have to toggle between "on-chain" and the lightning-network when making a request. Perhaps you hadn't toggled that setting?

I did not toggle.  I'll be sure to toggle next time. 

I only just got around to checking it again and now; it has 14 confirmations, and the channel status is "normal" now.  I still don't know if it needs a minimum of 6.

[DireWolfM14]

In Éclair you have to toggle between "on-chain" and the lightning-network when making a request. Perhaps you hadn't toggled that setting?

Okay, I see the on-chain/LN toggle on the receiving screen, but not on the payment screen.  If anyone can tell me what I did wrong the last time I'd appreciate it.  Here's a screen shot:



ETA:
I figured out how to buy some dogecoin using a lightning payment.  That was fast and fun, I like this game.


Loan Request:

Code:

lnbc100u1pwk7gxepp5ceyvsfv2gf90dywru94855nfeg3a03hdmua7ue7eyczx4ttkte7sdqjd3hhjcm9ypkx7ctwyqxqr4rqrzjq2jl4pzdxy84stfqnlnyjdftyf2ypw99femnv8eznwujacnreplx7zgv6qqqnqgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq88r7w0mlf4lkch423p2meslw0n2c08xegq6d3k86ghjjxv98ps648kflplnj73jv6qedr6es5dhjda0a7atw0jhkylyr42yz34ee84gqdsxhu7

I'll pester you for a repayment script tomorrow. 

[Timelord2067]

I'm sorry I don't know how to do screen grabs from mobile phones...

When Éclair starts it's on the centre of three pages, my phone has a short pause where you can't toggle, however once it's done its thing you can either swipe left or right. Or, touch the three buttons "Receive" "Payments" or "Channels"

On the "Receive" page you start with "on-chain" but can't touch "lightning" until you go into "settings" and turn on the receive Lightning Payments" toggle. (very dense for a lightning-node based product)

You can request an amount of bitcoins, or fiat if you scroll down slightly to the "edit request"

• "On Chain" you can touch the QR code or, touch and hold the text, or use the "share" button (three circles connected in an < shape) to copy the text.
• "Lightning" is the same, however I've found if you touch the text version of the payment request (receive) you will inevitably have to "select all" text then copy it.
  
  You can then use this text starting "lnbc..." to send a payment request.

swiping (or touching "payments") takes you to the middle page.  There is a blue circle with an arrow which I mistakenly thought was a Telegram Logo... touch this and you will be offered the following options:

• "Paste a payment request" - this option enables you to paste a payment request "lnbc..." you received from some-one else... There's a few issues of it's own which requires another set of dot points...
• "Scan a payment request" *if* you have a mobile device/tablet with two cameras (one each front and back) you can scan the QR code for either some-one's Éclair program, or QR codes on pages such as this one.

On your payment screen as with the amounts in your various wallets, you can toggle between the amount in bitcoin and a fiat denomination that you set (default is US$)

If the payment request fails to send (9.99/10 it fails on my three devices I've installed LN programs) you have to manually re-enter the value you want to send if you go into the payments TX details and click "retry payment".

When my mobile phone's screen goes blank I'm disconnected from the network and even though I have opened a channel to Amsterdam I'm still unable to receive a transaction from LoyceV as his end can't find a path to my end.  Very clunky - not just both ends, but every node in-between has to be online simultaneously for a transaction to first find a path, then occur.

[LoyceV]

Okay, I see the on-chain/LN toggle on the receiving screen, but not on the payment screen.  If anyone can tell me what I did wrong the last time I'd appreciate it.  Here's a screen shot:

You only have to paste or scan the payment, if it's an address (which you did some how), it'll make an on-chain payment, and if it's a LN-request, it'll go through LN.

Loan Request:

Code:

lnbc100u1pwk7gxepp5ceyvsfv2gf90dywru94855nfeg3a03hdmua7ue7eyczx4ttkte7sdqjd3hhjcm9ypkx7ctwyqxqr4rqrzjq2jl4pzdxy84stfqnlnyjdftyf2ypw99femnv8eznwujacnreplx7zgv6qqqnqgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq88r7w0mlf4lkch423p2meslw0n2c08xegq6d3k86ghjjxv98ps648kflplnj73jv6qedr6es5dhjda0a7atw0jhkylyr42yz34ee84gqdsxhu7

I get the same error (in Bluewallet) as I got for Timelord2067's request: "Payment failed. Does the receiver have enough inbound capacity?".

[DireWolfM14]

Okay, I see the on-chain/LN toggle on the receiving screen, but not on the payment screen.  If anyone can tell me what I did wrong the last time I'd appreciate it.  Here's a screen shot:

You only have to paste or scan the payment, if it's an address (which you did some how), it'll make an on-chain payment, and if it's a LN-request, it'll go through LN.

I'm confident I didn't paste an address, but I'm also confident I didn't paste the payment request properly.  Copying and pasting on my phone can be challenging with my sausage-like fingers, I bet I just buggered up the script some how.  Once I figure out how to send a proper payment I noticed some differences from that first attempt.  When it worked right the wallet software asked me to confirm the transaction, then it asked me to enter my PIN.  None of that happened during the first attempt, it just took that buggered up code and created a transaction that sent all the funds in the channel back to my wallet.  Weird.

I get the same error (in Bluewallet) as I got for Timelord2067's request: "Payment failed. Does the receiver have enough inbound capacity?".

That's odd, my wallet shows I have inbound capacity:




Could it be that my payment request expired?  I changed the setting to allow payment requests for up to six hours.  Can we try it again?

Code:

lightning:lnbc100u1pwklj00pp52src254vfseudduyxhw39sfd2kjl2fnaculgewvf43xahm9ukuxqdqqxqr4rqrzjq2jl4pzdxy84stfqnlnyjdftyf2ypw99femnv8eznwujacnreplx7zgv6qqqnqgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqt2df0c90fsnvxf50fnmw0yfq02yp2eaddd3j96h0hlxh55m74wyklsm6k7m90r6xwtl7tjqdrtmhf0y4mpw8m6sjxcnyjds5tnrlmucql8t0e6

[LoyceV]

Could it be that my payment request expired?  I changed the setting to allow payment requests for up to six hours.  Can we try it again?

It wasn't expired (it would tell me). I get the same error again, and I don't know why

[PrimeNumber7]

There must be insufficient capacity in intermediary channels to complete the transaction.

See this picture as an example of what I believe the issue to be.

It is also possible that the channel that DireWolfM14 is connected to is a node that is not well connected to the rest of the LN network. I ruled out this being the case for LoyceV because he used both his local LN wallet and a custodial wallet that I believe to be well connected to the LN network.

[LoyceV]

See this pictureas an example of what I believe the issue to be.

Maybe. Or maybe it's a flaw in routing, I've experienced before that I couldn't send a transaction directly, but I could send it to another service first, and complete it from there. That means a route is possible.

[Rath_]

@LoyceV, could you post a screenshot of that error message? I am quite sure that it used to look different. One month ago, Eclair Mobile got an update in which they fixed an issue in route calculation for direct payments. Do you have the latest update? Also, can you try paying the following invoice? Don't worry, I won't rip you off

Code:

lightning:lnbc1u1pwklmz9pp5987tgmjjphl4vzgdehzkcz60dqv2rdjk5c25nanndddh3pkrjcvsdp223jhxapqw3exzmnnv93hg6t0dcsxvmmjypxx77trv5xqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxq2cqqj8cqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqhs579ahpp79u9wzp0xlgpn6fx79cr4enq8ld0zqeukjj0w6prxns54qwrk8wkmnc4pz67qy7a07jkqg4u5jy93rmjv9mmjcu0luaveqq7zj7e9

lightning:lnbc100u1pwklj00pp52src254vfseudduyxhw39sfd2kjl2fnaculgewvf43xahm9ukuxqdqqxqr4r qrzjq2jl4pzdxy84stfqnlnyjdftyf2ypw99femnv8eznwujacnreplx7zgv6qqqnqgqqqqqqqlgqqq qqeqqjqt2df0c90fsnvxf50fnmw0yfq02yp2eaddd3j96h0hlxh55m74wyklsm6k7m90r6xwtl7tjqd rtmhf0y4mpw8m6sjxcnyjds5tnrlmucql8t0e6

I got a different error. "Processing node does not know the next peer in the route".

[DireWolfM14]

It is also possible that the channel that DireWolfM14 is connected to is a node that is not well connected to the rest of the LN network. I ruled out this being the case for LoyceV because he used both his local LN wallet and a custodial wallet that I believe to be well connected to the LN network.

That's possible.  I chose the node based on proximity using the map found here: https://explorer.acinq.co/
I'm connected to BonsaiSoftware's node, peer ID: 02a5fa844d310f582d209fe649352b225440b8a54e77361f229bb92ee263c87e6f

[LoyceV]

@LoyceV, could you post a screenshot of that error message?

That's terrible on mobile, I'll just type it:

Alert

API error: Payment failed. Does the receiver have enough inbound capacity? (code 10)

I'm using Bluewallet, and Android doesn't tell me there's a newer version. I could pay your request, but I can pay the same amount to lightning-roulette.com.

[Rath_]

I'm connected to BonsaiSoftware's node, peer ID: 02a5fa844d310f582d209fe649352b225440b8a54e77361f229bb92ee263c87e6f

It seems to be well-connected. ACINQ, satoshilabs, bitreffil, LNBIG.com nodes have open channels with this node, so the liquidity shouldn't be the issue.

[LoyceMobile]

I sent 10000 sat from Bluewallet to Eclair: that worked.
I tried 100 sat after this: same error as before.
I sent 25253 sat from Bluewallet to Coinplaza: that worked.

[DireWolfM14]

I closed the channel with BonsaiSoftware and tried to open one with ACINQ, but I don't have enough funds in the wallet anymore.  I'll fund the wallet soon and try again with a different node.  I may even try Bluewallet next to see if I run into fewer errors. 

[LoyceMobile]

I've funded my Eclair again, I'll try different paths next time.

[Timelord2067]

I've funded my Eclair again, I'll try different paths next time.

I've now got four channels on each of my three devices, so I'll try again with the only one that has an incoming channel.

Code:

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

(Adding a 4th channel is a bit redundant as it doesn't have the inbound on it as yet)

[LoyceV]

Code:

lnbc1pwh2vk2pp50qj48fd3xzg9h5s5tj2uh3dj9xa0qu9v7686n880fssmg938t8sqdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqw2sxwe993h5pcm4dxzpvttgza8zhkqxpgffcrf5v25nwpr3cmfg7z80dyqq2cqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqwxtjcva9yaumdy42vxws7p32n9ljqj4ch9v58t2mtl77hh8lzrzvzgwlgqqszqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqfs04d3nqehd0vwehxu2p7kg0c2hn5tsn6r5629q69c6rawy8wu8wzgr6qqqsjsqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq38jt8u508v98hqckpdscj55vdlha9p7nm4zdfjst8wz7udx2rq9p23wx5t8f5uu25q6hy7n54l7sywn9xeuu6kcknsamr7870j0j6ngqhvlkya

I still can't send a payment
Bluewallet gives the same error as last time:

Alert
API error: Payment failed. Does the receiver have enough inbound capacity? (code 10)

Eclair made 10 attempts, and alternates different errors:

• channel is currently disabled
• processing node does not know the next peer in the route
• payment fee was below the minimum required by the channel

From both wallets, I also tried sending a few satoshi. This failed too.

[Timelord2067]

Inbound channel is 0.01 so should be good...

Code:

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

[LoyceV]

Code:

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

I get the same error.

[LoyceV]

I'm closing this topic for a while. I couldn't even send a few satoshis from Bluewallet to my Eclair wallet, so I closed the channel for now.
I may reopen this in a couple of months.

[LoyceV]

It's been almost 4 months since I locked this thread, and I saw bitmover missed my thread, so I've opened it again. Let's see if LN has improved a bit now. Most of my other LN-payments to well-connected nodes work without problems.
Payment requests in BlueWallet should now expire in 24 hours instead of 1 hour, so that should make things much easier.

[Timelord2067]

It's been almost 4 months since I locked this thread, and I saw bitmover missed my thread, so I've opened it again. Let's see if LN has improved a bit now. Most of my other LN-payments to well-connected nodes work without problems.
Payment requests in BlueWallet should now expire in 24 hours instead of 1 hour, so that should make things much easier.

Welcome back - I'll be the first cab off the rank:

Code:

lnbc100u1p0q09e8pp5ar75kaa03jfr5sffm62cdj3lx37qzkesnzrxhh2u6q6lh0yxnzfqdql23xzqtfqfpshqureyp8x2aeqt9jkzuscqzpgxqyz5vqrzjqggrus6nzyccsp9rv4lcsme2tjduz32t5jumyzhv4vtpgkg8jchk2z8u3vqqrucqqyqqqqlgqqqqqqgqjqrzjqf622s4kjvu9l83c67k0gqt76vt535qxj0ljr8z5uxenwj2etf6pjz2pryqqjpsqqyqqqqlgqqqqqqgq9qrzjqfly2w8au8fuwa5hp4w4kvjamk75p9mcp20rgv7l9msln72u6cy8gz2zjyqq5pqqqyqqqqlgqqqqqzsqpcrzjqvt8saznsw7jww6v8kl0erlm7jz8mpwz7ckngp7qexqyxzej2lzqxz20guqqdycqqyqqqqlgqqqqqqgq9qrzjqdfnpzfk6e8yf9cpsm958us4l08pu24cvvw6zlz5t7kmpfunzg3fczfc55qqvdsqqyqqqqqqqqqqqeqqrcrzjqdk3zqak0tyvfsmkcye3yw4ad83y9hkrhcgtfuxj7cch0dfxun50cz2zn5qq4mcqqyqqqqlgqqqqqqgq9q8swvkqnqdl6qz9rms0ffwyn4rr6s09r6t9p3jq3qp4zdj78542uhvdkh4ezdggypgvm6fswjs27jw5wvd3s9caluxk7n07c9lhd949spe785u2

(24 hour expiry)

[LoyceV]

Code:

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

Sent! It worked at first try (using BlueWallet), with 32 satoshi fee. Which wallet do you use now?

[Timelord2o67]

Sent! It worked at first try (using BlueWallet), with 32 satoshi fee. Which wallet do you use now?

Still using Zap (on the PC) for incoming and Éclair on mobile for outgoing.

Thanks to CoinPlaza I've been boosting my Zap wallet's to eight X BTC 0.011  channels by setting up the Chanel, cashing out BTC 0.01 and repeating as well as sending BTC 0.005 to the Éclair wallet via only inbound (paid for) with the other channels cancelled until I can fix up that problem I was telling you about.


Feel free to send over a repayment request. (I've got to repay Jack when he comes back online too)

[Timelord2067]

Hi, Can you post a 24 hour request for repayment, so that I can repay the testing of the network. Thanks.

[LoyceV]

eight X BTC 0.011  channels

Did you use different nodes for each channel? If so: how do you select them?
Judging by my transaction, at least one of them is now well-connected

Don't know if I am doing it correctly.
But downloaded the wallet. Didn't say anything about request option.

I've deleted your post (and I'm not quoting your Bitcoin address for you).
Feel free to apply again after you've installed a LN-compatible wallet. If you don't know how, at least start by saying which wallet you're trying to use.

Hi, Can you post a 24 hour request for repayment, so that I can repay the testing of the network. Thanks.

I had kids-day yesterday, hence the delay:

Code:

lnbc100500n1p0qnjxppp5ljauujm8tppqcm26g2wkn5p9r9tyucsrwzw3nvuq9fkv67gwyadsdr92fjhgatjdcs8getnwskzqjfqvdex2ct5v4jzqcfqdejhwgrhv9kxcet5yp5kugzzd36k24mpd3kx2apqdf6hxapqvehhygr5dp5hxcqzpgxqyz5vqtraga3fgwvv94j2xdt5jenet0mvyrwu328pu4mjd5df7vmejqrz5pahxq95hwp90u3jrllgq8zmq9l0xvm925jwtzyncxx2g0h9g6tcqpvxwhx

I created a new wallet in BlueWallet just for this payment. That's one of the perks of being custodial

[Timelord2o67]

I'll have to reply to your question later as I've just arrived at work and it'll take a bit of typing.

Have repaid testing loan:

Code:

fcbbce4b6758420c6d5a429d69d02519564e6203709d19b3802a6ccd790e275b

Regards,

[LoyceV]

Have repaid testing loan:

Code:

fcbbce4b6758420c6d5a429d69d02519564e6203709d19b3802a6ccd790e275b

Received

[HCP]

Hey fella... can I get a test loan please:

Code:

lnbc100u1p0q4rwepp5m2ypu8qd83pd5u50zzyru3yyln6afq4t9guawxv9nu7s3h8nqwtsdqjf3hhjcm92csycmmpdccqzpgxqyz5vqrzjqd35hkjfe8zz4lv8dkpg3qpfgtzfuk8masuyfl65k3s5807tdn067z2sacqq44cqqqqqqqlgqqqqqqgq9qsw05hld6733kzslwacsepuz7xd046cya0s0s8kdz02f7vlrtz9h84hlezpynmj957tl35803a40zqgjle5f6grd7qtdl70a5gk4exesph9z0mv

Will only need it for an hour or three (no more than a day etc)

[LoyceMobile]

Hey fella... can I get a test loan please:

Code:

lnbc100u1p0q4rwepp5m2ypu8qd83pd5u50zzyru3yyln6afq4t9guawxv9nu7s3h8nqwtsdqjf3hhjcm92csycmmpdccqzpgxqyz5vqrzjqd35hkjfe8zz4lv8dkpg3qpfgtzfuk8masuyfl65k3s5807tdn067z2sacqq44cqqqqqqqlgqqqqqqgq9qsw05hld6733kzslwacsepuz7xd046cya0s0s8kdz02f7vlrtz9h84hlezpynmj957tl35803a40zqgjle5f6grd7qtdl70a5gk4exesph9z0mv

Will only need it for an hour or three (no more than a day etc)

Sent!

[HCP]

Sweet... received... Feel free to post up a request and I'll repay it... probably a good idea to make it valid for 24 hours if you can. Otherwise, I'll do my best!

[LoyceV]

Sweet... received... Feel free to post up a request and I'll repay it...

Here you go:

Code:

lnbc100500n1p0qecggpp5ufc2ultffdd04hu9q0s5uagw93v8a389l5vplxl9f9z4wguvl5cqdqlf3hhjcm92cs8qctevfskx6eqw35k6egcqzpgxqyz5vq3mdzc67g49nq4hpyxpkquhjdfaln32as3rjmt9t2ys6m9dzzdn7pm7l8vd0g87k8m679lasshqgzj5yh03vhzn3vn9pvacyddl25v7spx800wk

BlueWallet allows 24h by default now.

[HCP]

Thanks, this has been repaid:



I'm slowly picking up some of the realities of Lightning... like how you can commit a bunch of sats to a channel... and the other party can end up offline for days... and then you need to wait 144 blocks to force close the channel to get your sats back!

[LoyceV]

I'm slowly picking up some of the realities of Lightning... like how you can commit a bunch of sats to a channel... and the other party can end up offline for days... and then you need to wait 144 blocks to force close the channel to get your sats back!

Been there, done that. That's why I started to like the custodial wallet, it takes all the trouble away and just works out of the box. Until they run with the money, in which case they have enough for one beer

Update: I never connected to a node that went offline though. That's just bad.

[HCP]

Hey mate... ok, experimenting more with LND... Seems like my Bluewallet+lntxbot combo isn't working at this time, apparently the lntxbot is a bit "broken", so I can't send sats to myself.

Code:

lnbc100u1p0pv5y5pp5uagzm5tfdgnuu55788pxfhncy736gc2hr3lxrlq8fkf0d6m0se3sdp2gajhgarfdenjqcfqf3hkzm3qveex7mfqf3hhjcm92ccqzpgxqyz5vq32my89k9yexrkpe3u0s5wagk48pkt6gsnme5a8cwrwrfjrft0779rjv88yt5mg3fwcq5e9vc0pgn64gef38mkffl5pwr99gjx2kwyvcq2pgy9r

[LoyceV]

Code:

lnbc100u1p0pv5y5pp5uagzm5tfdgnuu55788pxfhncy736gc2hr3lxrlq8fkf0d6m0se3sdp2gajhgarfdenjqcfqf3hkzm3qveex7mfqf3hhjcm92ccqzpgxqyz5vq32my89k9yexrkpe3u0s5wagk48pkt6gsnme5a8cwrwrfjrft0779rjv88yt5mg3fwcq5e9vc0pgn64gef38mkffl5pwr99gjx2kwyvcq2pgy9r

Funded! With 32 satoshi fee.
Sorry for the delay, it was night here.

[Timelord2o67]

Morning.

Code:

lnbc100u1p0pwll2pp53jdhvtxsdvxav0ty48mmesfjfx2gk38wpu3uq4knnurfqklw237qdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqd35hkjfe8zz4lv8dkpg3qpfgtzfuk8masuyfl65k3s5807tdn067z2s2yqqwgsqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z2pwsqq2fqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqdfuh5rlst509etz007sr7d4fe739clersecndzlgfc5hw9dg60qsxwkkjk6dhudqxzt75ztrl6dg0l777kxuakwyzydsemsvua9lm6qqp49n8m

[LoyceMobile]

Morning.

Code:

lnbc100u1p0pwll2pp53jdhvtxsdvxav0ty48mmesfjfx2gk38wpu3uq4knnurfqklw237qdqu2fhkzmtfdenjqnzwyptkzmrvv46qxqr4rqrzjqd35hkjfe8zz4lv8dkpg3qpfgtzfuk8masuyfl65k3s5807tdn067z2s2yqqwgsqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z2pwsqq2fqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqdfuh5rlst509etz007sr7d4fe739clersecndzlgfc5hw9dg60qsxwkkjk6dhudqxzt75ztrl6dg0l777kxuakwyzydsemsvua9lm6qqp49n8m

Evening

BlueWallet says the payment is in transit. That usually means it failed, in which case I'll try again later.

Sent!

[HCP]

Funded! With 32 satoshi fee.
Sorry for the delay, it was night here.

Thanks. and no worries... I'm generally not in any particular hurry with these sorts of things

I'm busying experimenting with "Loop" at the moment... supposedly it allows you to create some inbound channel capacity on a specific channel by moving sats out through that channel "off-chain" and then "looping" them back to your wallet in an external "on-chain" transaction.

However, the minimum amount is 250,000 sats... and I am just getting a lot of "TemporaryChannelFailure(update=(*lnwire.ChannelUpdate)(0xc005cee160)" errors... so I'm guessing there just isn't the channel capacity between myself and the output point

Anyway, feel free to post up a return invoice and I'll repay it...

BlueWallet says the payment is in transit. That usually means it failed, in which case I'll try again later.

I've been having issues with Bluewallet and lntxbot the last day or so... lntxbot had a bit of a brainfart yesterday... and since then, I get a lot of "no routes" and "Error: failed: WIRE_TEMPORARY_CHANNEL_FAILURE (reply from remote) (204). Erring: 611785x2234x0, 0340…1c80" type issues with it

It generates weird API errors in Bluewallet

[LoyceMobile]

However, the minimum amount is 250,000 sats...

The exchange in my signature accepts 100,000 sat minimum, and less if you exchange to an altcoin.

Repayment:

Code:

lnbc100500n1p0p0p5gpp5x6wjqm6h5kyjf0ad9mafdal5aqf4eqxzg5egpuphasxyx99ckvkqdqdfpp4qgrvdaskucqzpgxqyz5vqcuqeflqshhtgv96tyhkhhm39ccxj9ph4th9qatn8dr9q8kgg29l8wgv06x2ek2zpdj8mxy80qmcnlv7nrtz2cg96v5q82sjrmyql6xgpx37q3c

[Timelord2o67]

...

Got it.

Éclair still works (sort of)

Given my location this morning I barely had a signal, so all went well.

*Edit*

Will send a repayment request in about six hours. (About five GMT)

Am online for next couple of hours if you'd like to send a repayment request over?

[LoyceV]

Given my location this morning I barely had a signal, so all went well.

It does indeed work better than it did half a year ago.

Am online for next couple of hours if you'd like to send a repayment request over?

BlueWallet payment requests are now valid for 24h, so no rush:

Code:

lnbc100500n1p0pn9ykpp5hq3u2k9283fhw0cwh4azmwc26t5d9ylk8h4z0r6r9y0q7qn7kkhqdqc235k6etvdaexgfmnypkx7ctwcqzpgxqyz5vq0k2xujcc4fvmxkyduznunxeuhl2nlf9zf29n6r59z8g3gppnzurxtwg6mwrryct7gs5ms0s5zpzw67hg226kyxrt6m8hussfz4w5ppcqjp66wm

I can't wait for LN to fix the need for a repayment request. It would be so much easier if you can just pay in a predefined way.

[Timelord2067]

BlueWallet payment requests are now valid for 24h, so no rush:

Code:

lnbc100500n1p0pn9ykpp5hq3u2k9283fhw0cwh4azmwc26t5d9ylk8h4z0r6r9y0q7qn7kkhqdqc235k6etvdaexgfmnypkx7ctwcqzpgxqyz5vq0k2xujcc4fvmxkyduznunxeuhl2nlf9zf29n6r59z8g3gppnzurxtwg6mwrryct7gs5ms0s5zpzw67hg226kyxrt6m8hussfz4w5ppcqjp66wm

I can't wait for LN to fix the need for a repayment request. It would be so much easier if you can just pay in a predefined way.

Repaid:

Code:

lnbc100500n1p0pn9ykpp5hq3u2k9283fhw0cwh4azmwc26t5d9ylk8h4z0r6r9y0q7qn7kkhqdqc235k6etvdaexgfmnypkx7ctwcqzpgxqyz5vq0k2xujcc4fvmxkyduznunxeuhl2nlf9zf29n6r59z8g3gppnzurxtwg6mwrryct7gs5ms0s5zpzw67hg226kyxrt6m8hussfz4w5ppcqjp66wm

My Eclair LN wallet works (just emptied it, then sent funds back to repay you a minute later)

I inadvertently sent two payments to the same LN request on my Zap wallet - once I restarted the Zap wallet the second one appeared, so on Zap you can create up to a 12 month request and seemingly receive multiple payments to the same request (could be used for donations??)

[HCP]

The exchange in my signature accepts 100,000 sat minimum, and less if you exchange to an altcoin.

Both yourself and Timelord2067 have recommended CoinPlaza... and sadly, I can't seem to send to them. Despite appearing to have active channels/routes to them... When I try and send a payment after setting up an exchange, I keep getting multiple errors like the following in LND:

Attempt to send payment 30035xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx6799fd failed: TemporaryChannelFailure(update=(*lnwire.ChannelUpdate)(0xc0012a68f0)({
 Signature: (lnwire.Sig) (len=64 cap=64) {
*****REDACTED*****
 },
 ChainHash: (chainhash.Hash) (len=32 cap=32) 000000000019d6689c08xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxa8ce26f,
 ShortChannelID: (lnwire.ShortChannelID) 565538:2086:0,
 Timestamp: (uint32) 1578754515,
 MessageFlags: (lnwire.ChanUpdateMsgFlags) 00000001,
 ChannelFlags: (lnwire.ChanUpdateChanFlags) 00000000,
 TimeLockDelta: (uint16) 144,
 HtlcMinimumMsat: (lnwire.MilliSatoshi) 1000 mSAT,
 BaseFee: (uint32) 1000,
 FeeRate: (uint32) 1,
 HtlcMaximumMsat: (lnwire.MilliSatoshi) 354218000 mSAT,
 ExtraOpaqueData: ([]uint8) <nil>
})
)

and then eventually...

2020-01-12 11:37:14.544 [WRN] RPCS: Unable to send payment: payment attempt not completed before timeout

I've tried 250000 sats, 200000 sats and the minimum 101010 sats. I'm guessing something is broken downroute from me and the payment just cannot be made

[LoyceMobile]

I've tried 250000 sats, 200000 sats and the minimum 101010 sats. I'm guessing something is broken downroute from me and the payment just cannot be made

I never created a direct channel to CoinPlaza. You can try sending to BlueWallet first, and from there to CoinPlaza. You'll just have to pay more fees (0.3-1%).
If you want to try a lower amount, buy 1000 Doge or 0.01 eth as a test.

[HCP]

I never created a direct channel to CoinPlaza. You can try sending to BlueWallet first, and from there to CoinPlaza. You'll just have to pay more fees (0.3-1%).

Me neither. It's not a direct channel... It's a route that goes from my node, through 1ml.com to 10c.cz to CoinPlaza. As far as I can tell, the channels it should be routing by have enough capacity. So I'm not really sure what is broken. I don't have the time at the moment to really deep dive into the tech side of Lighting to figure out what the issue is.

In the meantime, I'll just close the "giant" channel that I opened with 1ml and claim the sats back that way

[Timelord2067]

I've opened a dozen channels with BTC 0.011 capacity with some ver big nodes and am unable to send 0.01 in one package, instead I've had to go down to 0.005 0.002 and even 0.001 just to send to coinplaza after having first started with attempts at 0.01 - which means I'm having to go to coinplaza and create smaller and smaller requests and cancel the larger requests.  All very time consuming.

[LoyceV]

As far as I can tell, the channels it should be routing by have enough capacity. So I'm not really sure what is broken.

I assume there's no (one!) channel with enough capacity in between nodes? LN payments can not (yet) be split over multiple channels, which means there must be a route for which all nodes have enough capacity.
That was the reason I gave up on Eclair for the time being, and I expect it to improve once LN grows.

I've opened a dozen channels with BTC 0.011 capacity with some ver big nodes and am unable to send 0.01 in one package, instead I've had to go down to 0.005 0.002 and even 0.001 just to send to coinplaza after having first started with attempts at 0.01 - which means I'm having to go to coinplaza and create smaller and smaller requests and cancel the larger requests.  All very time consuming.

I never tried such high amounts on LN, because even a small percentage fee will already be more than on-chain Bitcoin fees (the minimum of 1 sat/byte is enough as long as I'm not in a hurry). In Eclair the fee was at most 3%, in BlueWallet it's 0.3-1%. Even at 0.3%, it would be 3000 sats, which is 15 times more than I pay on-chain.
I do love LN to pay small orders (a few bucks each) though, those work great!

[Timelord2o67]

Would you please send a testnet on-chain request for the amount you tried to send me that never arrived so that I can reimburse you for the lost testnet on-chain coins, please?

[LoyceV]

Would you please send a testnet on-chain request for the amount you tried to send me that never arrived so that I can reimburse you for the lost testnet on-chain coins, please?

There's no need to return any testnet coins - they have no value
If you don't need them anymore, you can donate them to a faucet (example: mkHS9ne12qx9pS9VojpwU5xtRd4T7X7ZUt).

[Timelord2067]

Would you please send a testnet on-chain request for the amount you tried to send me that never arrived so that I can reimburse you for the lost testnet on-chain coins, please?

There's no need to return any testnet coins - they have no value
If you don't need them anymore, you can donate them to a faucet (example: mkHS9ne12qx9pS9VojpwU5xtRd4T7X7ZUt).

Whatever's wrong with the main net Eclair wallet seems to be happening with the test-net wallet too...

While I like the concept of the Lightning Network the three program's I've used have a long way to go before they are ready for mainstream use.

[Timelord2067]

Am just trying to clear out my Blue Wallet:

Code:

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

24 hours, thanks.

[LoyceV]

Am just trying to clear out my Blue Wallet

I really don't get how getting 10000 sat from me is helping with that

Code:

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

Funded from Wallet of Satoshi. I paid 2 sat fee. BlueWallet has a minimum LN fee of 0.3%, so this is cheaper.
For funding from on-chain to LN it's the other way around: BlueWallet doesn't charge a fee, but Wallet of Satoshi charges 0.3% for the conversion.

[Timelord2o67]

...

I was hoping you'd send to my Zap wallet and I'd send from my Blue Wallet to you (thus bumping your thread) looks like you've quoted my payment request, so not to worry, I'll fix it up myself.

*Edit* (may have misread your post... am away for the weekend, so if you did pay, then just send a request)

[LoyceV]

I was hoping you'd send to my Zap wallet and I'd send from my Blue Wallet to you (thus bumping your thread) looks like you've quoted my payment request, so not to worry, I'll fix it up myself.

I don't know which wallet I sent to, but I did send it.

*Edit* (may have misread your post... am away for the weekend, so if you did pay, then just send a request)

I'll post it when the kids are asleep (so I can use the tablet).

[LoyceMobile]

Repayment:

Code:

 lnbc100u1p0rglfxpp5ewnjdjdhq3fsdllkqxy348eaq2c2mwwew86dxf2anc25tqwvpzeqdqqcqzpgxqyz5vqkr4nyf8pld7yy7j2r4u7djjxervgg36x6qchyy2vyxzjfz8edm7jyn4vpxnfcceshwrxkrc32hd593jzna29lf3zmgkdql3dgss4ghspmtn65r

[Timelord2o67]

Repayment:

Code:

 lnbc100u1p0rglfxpp5ewnjdjdhq3fsdllkqxy348eaq2c2mwwew86dxf2anc25tqwvpzeqdqqcqzpgxqyz5vqkr4nyf8pld7yy7j2r4u7djjxervgg36x6qchyy2vyxzjfz8edm7jyn4vpxnfcceshwrxkrc32hd593jzna29lf3zmgkdql3dgss4ghspmtn65r

Repaid with three days thirty Satoshi that time. (Damn autocorrect)

[LoyceV]

Locked for now, I moved my LN-funds on-chain before installing unknown apps on the device.

[LoyceV]

Bump: I've reopened this thread to promote the Lightning Network earn a whopping 100 satoshi fee per loan.

[Timelord2067]

Bump: I've reopened this thread to promote the Lightning Network earn a whopping 100 satoshi fee per loan.

Would you be prepared to post a request for 0.0075 via the LN and once it's been paid I then post a LN request for that 0.0075 (you can nominate a fee either included, or paid separately).  I have ~ 0.0083 in a Blue LN wallet and want to send 0.0075 to an Eclair LN wallet with 0.025 inbound capacity.

I'm on for ~ another 90 minutes.

[LoyceV]

Would you be prepared to post a request for 0.0075 via the LN and once it's been paid I then post a LN request for that 0.0075 (you can nominate a fee either included, or paid separately).  I have ~ 0.0083 in a Blue LN wallet and want to send 0.0075 to an Eclair LN wallet with 0.025 inbound capacity.

The only wallet I have that has enough incoming capacity is BlueWallet. There's not really a point in doing that, it'll just be an "internal" BlueWallet transaction that costs 0.3% in fees.

[Timelord2067]

The only wallet I have that has enough incoming capacity is BlueWallet. There's not really a point in doing that, it'll just be an "internal" BlueWallet transaction that costs 0.3% in fees.

Can we try 0.0025 ??  I'm trying to shift funds out of a Blue wallet of my own.  

[LoyceV]

Can we try 0.0025 ??  I'm trying to shift funds out of a Blue wallet of my own.  

We can, but it'll end up on my BlueWallet so it uses the same nodes to send it out again.
I don't really want to use a Lightning casino for this (I might get tempted).

[Timelord2067]

I don't really want to use a Lightning casino for this (I might get tempted).

Hmmm you've just given me an idea...

[johnjimjack]

Code:

lnbc100u1psza2a9pp5uw2n56wlg32kplaa40kejar2dwsl7zc8k698a0dkurpg8mswq7mqdq6gfpju36pf4zj6vfkxvurqvedxycqzpgsp5nnmdzqe9fayrcsk6pz0rs2yn0jrdqz6ukuc9gqpf55qrqrrmelws9qy9qsq98p36tvkpypmrrvl0t9vy2vvfdwuc92tjwljvgqzqy352g3tvyaqukt0yd5rnxhctzz673j46t7643nn35u3dmf6et9qp9ramfkr3qqp0eqljd

Bump

I'll have one.
Also, how about likeable before LoyceV's?

[LoyceV]

I'll have one.

Sorry, rejected. You're not a regular poster, and want to use the loan for gambling.

how about likeable before LoyceV's?

"Likeable Loyce"? Lol

[johnjimjack]

I'll have one.

Sorry, rejected. You're not a regular poster, and want to use the loan for gambling.

how about likeable before LoyceV's?

"Likeable Loyce"? Lol

Fair enough.

I think likeable would fit after reading your trust page.
Have a good day. 

[LoyceV]

Update: I've Lowered the amount to be much closer to $1 again:

Amount: 0.01 mBTC (0.00001 BTC, or 1,000 satoshi).

Current value: just under $0.51

[LoyceV]

LN Lovers LBump

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