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Author Topic: Locked: LoyceV's Legendary Little Lightning Loans  (Read 2672 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (5 posts by 5 users deleted.)
LoyceV
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June 02, 2019, 10:26:25 AM
Last edit: September 11, 2019, 08:47:02 PM by LoyceV
Merited by WhyFhy (8), suchmoon (4), bones261 (2), BitCryptex (2), Vod (1), Timelord2067 (1), DarkStar_ (1), wwzsocki (1), asu (1), bitmover (1), Johnyz (1), DireWolfM14 (1)
 #1

Recently, I started playing around with a Bitcoin Lightning Network wallet (Eclair).

I considered creating a Satoshi doubler thread, but Little Lightning Loans sounds much better. The main purpose of this topic is to encourage Bitcoin users to try the Lightning Network, while using it for something real (although small).
A slight warning: Since the Lightning Network is still (a bit) experimental, you shouldn't deposit more than you're willing to lose. I think of it as an investment of time in Bitcoin's (possible) future.

Loan
No collateral required.
Amount: 0.1 mBTC (0.0001 BTC, or 10,000 satoshi).
Duration: one week.
Interest: 1% (0.001 mBTC (=0.000001 BTC or 100 satoshi)).
Conditions: Members (and higher) without red trust on DT2 all account ranks can apply.

To apply
1. Make sure you have inbound capacity.
2. Post a Bitcoin Lightning Network payment request for 0.1 mBTC. Make sure it doesn't expire too soon (in case I'm not online).
Repayment
3. When you want to pay back, let me know and I'll post a payment request.

Disclaimer
Self-moderated to stop spam from users who don't read and ask for a on-chain Bitcoin loan.
I reserve the right to reject or accept users as I please.
This topic is experimental, if it works out I might add Larger Lightning Loans later.
Don't take a small loan to get positive feedback, join to try the Lightning Network Smiley

Challenge
Help me add more sensible words (starting with an L) to the title Cheesy

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June 02, 2019, 10:48:14 AM
Last edit: August 23, 2019, 08:07:23 PM by LoyceV
 #2

LoyceV's Legendary Little Lightning Loans Ledger
1. PrimeNumber7: June 2 - June 4: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 satoshi interest Cheesy
2. thehun: June 8 - June 10: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 satoshi interest Cheesy
3. BitCryptex: June 18 - June 20: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 102 satoshi interest Cheesy
4. bitmover: June 22 - June 22: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 satoshi interest Cheesy
5. Timelord2067: July 10 - July 13: 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 satoshi interest Cheesy
6. asu: August 6 - August 9: 0.1 mBTC 0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 100 satoshi interest Cheesy
7. asu: August 16 - August 23: 0.2 mBTC paid back in full with 200 satoshi interest Cheesy
8. Timelord2067: August 23 - August 23:  0.1 mBTC paid back in full with 50 satoshi interest Cheesy

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June 02, 2019, 10:59:13 AM
 #3

here is btc address:1Fq8xvcZokMFHtfvVzRov4s7VK4wh5sB1X
I've added some red font to the OP. This topic is about Lightning Loans, a payment request looks like this:
Code:
lnbc100u1pw082lmpp56a6f0dt5jwddu2q4m0q8drvn6gsg87mstl2a4edz445lrmcpvunqdpsdp68gurn8ghj7mrfva58gmnfdenj6un0w4kx2ar5v5hxxmmdcqzpgxqyp2xq8rzuaxqr5fe8y33wtduphma45tu9rqk3t55dlf7z7j47vclrhwu9q9ymwmw2qc3pmuuky5kt798x6mnynwahv00nkf42glv9p8mhgtqpu82wj4

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June 02, 2019, 11:34:58 AM
 #4

here is btc address:1Fq8xvcZokMFHtfvVzRov4s7VK4wh5sB1X
I've added some red font to the OP. This topic is about Lightning Loans, a payment request looks like this:
Code:
lnbc100u1pw082lmpp56a6f0dt5jwddu2q4m0q8drvn6gsg87mstl2a4edz445lrmcpvunqdpsdp68gurn8ghj7mrfva58gmnfdenj6un0w4kx2ar5v5hxxmmdcqzpgxqyp2xq8rzuaxqr5fe8y33wtduphma45tu9rqk3t55dlf7z7j47vclrhwu9q9ymwmw2qc3pmuuky5kt798x6mnynwahv00nkf42glv9p8mhgtqpu82wj4
ahh ok i have no Lightning Network address right now but i will do later.Thanks
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June 02, 2019, 01:37:29 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2019, 01:51:20 PM by DireWolfM14
 #5

Nice project, much lightning.

I have a little learning curve to overcome, but I'll request a loan from you just for fun once I've learned how to generate a pay request. 
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June 02, 2019, 06:19:24 PM
Merited by DarkStar_ (1)
 #6

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Date June 2 2019
Time within 12 hours of 00000000000000000022d73ec793bd1c0bbbfa70a7098702711c634c101c8b9a
LN invoice lightning:lnbc100u1pw0gyygpp5nu7lxxrqr6sggmmwtasjvlvpc8p3hcmf98cqgj79my09274xeg9qdq6f3hkz m3qveex7mfqf3hhjcm92ccqzpgnzatmsy2eug3umpn6jy23hte2ttyjz20g43weul962wnm8vcs05rj 3efchhhtm40993kw0q36sy0hvvhpfflx2u8hwfhncnt999edlgqufhqvn

Requesting loan in the amount of 0.0001 BTC from LoyceV. The purpose of this loan is to test my LN client.

In exchange for this loan, I promise to repay LoyceV in the amount of 0.000101 BTC by June 9 2019

Thanks.
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
bc1qak92tjzyev30pk6nkqhqjgmgxqj68fxvyn5tl7
H5R0z9u/SSPpFhVCr2TMCZKm6/t0mLN0hoiYMlXwZR0OUVDdJuDEryxqfsE5IJSRI7r34Q+5jpWdjOsn2EXs0e0=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

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June 02, 2019, 06:30:46 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2019, 06:41:19 PM by suchmoon
 #7

@LoyceV - may I suggest explicitly stating your trust feedback policy because... you know... trust farmers.

Edit to avoid offending touchy newbies.

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June 02, 2019, 06:36:13 PM
 #8

May I suggest explicitly stating your trust feedback policy because... you know... trust farmers.
I am not sure if your post was directed about my request. If you bothered to read my post you would see the stated purpose very clearly says is to test my LN client. Nowhere did I imply that I expect trust in return for repaying >$1

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June 02, 2019, 06:38:53 PM
 #9

May I suggest explicitly stating your trust feedback policy because... you know... trust farmers.
I am not sure if your post was directed about my request. If you bothered to read my post you would see the stated purpose very clearly says is to test my LN client. Nowhere did I imply that I expect trust in return for repaying >$1

Since I didn't quote or refer to you in any way it's obviously directed at the OP. But if the shoe fits I won't argue.

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June 02, 2019, 07:13:48 PM
 #10

Time within 12 hours of 00000000000000000022d73ec793bd1c0bbbfa70a7098702711c634c101c8b9a
LN invoice lightning:lnbc100u1pw0gyygpp5nu7lxxrqr6sggmmwtasjvlvpc8p3hcmf98cqgj79my09274xeg9qdq6f3hkz m3qveex7mfqf3hhjcm92ccqzpgnzatmsy2eug3umpn6jy23hte2ttyjz20g43weul962wnm8vcs05rj 3efchhhtm40993kw0q36sy0hvvhpfflx2u8hwfhncnt999edlgqufhqvn
Eclair tells me: "this payment had expired".

LoyceV on the road (or in bed, couch, ....). Don't deal with this account (there's one exception), I use it on untrusted devices.
<<Lightning Network: Tip me 1 satoshi>>. <<Exchange Bitcoin LN for onchain coins>> <<"When AI roams free, that's LoyceV...on mobile" (by Steamtyme)>>  <<your text here for free? come up with something good>>
Look at me, I'm DT3!
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June 02, 2019, 07:28:50 PM
 #11

Time within 12 hours of 00000000000000000022d73ec793bd1c0bbbfa70a7098702711c634c101c8b9a
LN invoice lightning:lnbc100u1pw0gyygpp5nu7lxxrqr6sggmmwtasjvlvpc8p3hcmf98cqgj79my09274xeg9qdq6f3hkz m3qveex7mfqf3hhjcm92ccqzpgnzatmsy2eug3umpn6jy23hte2ttyjz20g43weul962wnm8vcs05rj 3efchhhtm40993kw0q36sy0hvvhpfflx2u8hwfhncnt999edlgqufhqvn
Eclair tells me: "this payment had expired".

Try this one:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
To ammend the post here <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5149962.msg51324624#msg51324624>

lightning:lnbc100u1pw0ggn2pp55rwr3kh5yetsa43h2x2g234kfdy9e83zvm9fxykx5rv3kh04xvfsdpyf3hkz m3qveex7mfqf3hhjcm92cs8guneyqeqcqzpgeh2lhm0gqyx68254u89ftu0q0qxddwz8w34jvctlp4n gzn27z049emt6jxy4e0cpajja4e43vsmc9h4j2ejyfwh6w6v4lvewvhy7wdqqlts8ls-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
bc1qak92tjzyev30pk6nkqhqjgmgxqj68fxvyn5tl7
H+IRiWBKfpYUm6KBJ5QgPkPQ67c20Ocjr3KDsoNH9QzDK6RcYG/mXMerLhC3K/+8gAQNLuHQWLU9BDVL+gfLDoI=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

BlueWallet appears to set the invoice to expire after an hour. I created it a few minutes ago

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June 02, 2019, 07:33:06 PM
 #12

0.0001 Bitcoin Lightning Loan sent to PrimeNumber7. Fee paid: 2.02 satoshi Cheesy

Welcome, my first customer!

LoyceV on the road (or in bed, couch, ....). Don't deal with this account (there's one exception), I use it on untrusted devices.
<<Lightning Network: Tip me 1 satoshi>>. <<Exchange Bitcoin LN for onchain coins>> <<"When AI roams free, that's LoyceV...on mobile" (by Steamtyme)>>  <<your text here for free? come up with something good>>
Look at me, I'm DT3!
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June 02, 2019, 07:40:31 PM
 #13

0.0001 Bitcoin Lightning Loan sent to PrimeNumber7. Fee paid: 2.02 satoshi Cheesy

Welcome, my first customer!
Received.



I will play around with my client a bit and ask for an invoice to pay you back.

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June 02, 2019, 10:33:45 PM
 #14

Please can I have a loan too? Thanks!
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June 03, 2019, 04:22:39 AM
 #15

@LoyceV - may I suggest explicitly stating your trust feedback policy because... you know... trust farmers.
Added:
Don't take a small loan to get positive feedback, join to try the Lightning Network Smiley


Please can I have a loan too? Thanks!
No. Only Members and higher are allowed, and your post history doesn't show anything else than applying for giveaways and loans, so you don't qualify for an exception.

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June 03, 2019, 04:37:44 AM
 #16

0.0001 Bitcoin Lightning Loan sent to PrimeNumber7. Fee paid: 2.02 satoshi Cheesy

Welcome, my first customer!
Holy Sh**!
I wanted to learn how to setup LN then I totally forgot about it. :-P

.WOLF.BET.
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.AFFILIATE PROGRAM.
   ...FREE FAUCET........
..CHAT RAIN.............
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June 03, 2019, 01:36:32 PM
 #17

I want to try it too at a later stage.
My big house project is soon to be finished, just left to build a veranda and paint the roof and that will be all for this year and then I'll setup my Lighting node as I dream to do this for very long time now.

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June 03, 2019, 08:59:50 PM
 #18

Fee paid: 2.02 satoshi

How is this possible?  I thought a satoshi was the smallest amount you could break a bitcoin into? 

(Feel free to delete if off topic, but I am curious.  Smiley  )

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June 03, 2019, 09:14:39 PM
 #19

Lightning Network uses milli-satoshis as smallest unit.

I'm more curious why it's 2 dot something: my guess is some node charges 1 or 2 satoshi, and another node charges just 0.02. I don't think one node would charge 2.02, and I've seen a "weird number" as fee quite often.

LoyceV on the road (or in bed, couch, ....). Don't deal with this account (there's one exception), I use it on untrusted devices.
<<Lightning Network: Tip me 1 satoshi>>. <<Exchange Bitcoin LN for onchain coins>> <<"When AI roams free, that's LoyceV...on mobile" (by Steamtyme)>>  <<your text here for free? come up with something good>>
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June 04, 2019, 06:52:50 AM
 #20

0.0001 Bitcoin Lightning Loan sent to PrimeNumber7. Fee paid: 2.02 satoshi Cheesy

Welcome, my first customer!
Received.


I will play around with my client a bit and ask for an invoice to pay you back.
If you can post an invoice in the next 15 minutes, I will pay you back tonight. It is nearly midnight in California, and I need to be at work by 7.

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June 04, 2019, 07:00:37 AM
 #21

If you can post an invoice in the next 15 minutes, I will pay you back tonight.
Code:
lightning:lnbc101u1pw0v9k6pp5023tmcssc39mnktdnnjupnpjz66rkdv72nc89649uxgjaep33q0qdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrl4dtaacqnwg8htva6d7xptsusshjx6pvkdzmdsd3fqq5am7f0vhvqwur4hdd2dw350nzk9xd2wdvf4t3x8hmyg9mlk7q29d5c8fmjgp96nnhu

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June 04, 2019, 07:06:52 AM
 #22

If you can post an invoice in the next 15 minutes, I will pay you back tonight.
Code:
lightning:lnbc101u1pw0v9k6pp5023tmcssc39mnktdnnjupnpjz66rkdv72nc89649uxgjaep33q0qdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrl4dtaacqnwg8htva6d7xptsusshjx6pvkdzmdsd3fqq5am7f0vhvqwur4hdd2dw350nzk9xd2wdvf4t3x8hmyg9mlk7q29d5c8fmjgp96nnhu
Sent. Please confirm at your convenience.

It was a pleasure. This gave me the opportunity to learn about the economics behind the current LN ecosystem.

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June 04, 2019, 07:23:56 AM
 #23

Sent. Please confirm at your convenience.
Although I'm a bit slow at posting here, the transaction was received at Lightning speed Cheesy

Quote
It was a pleasure. This gave me the opportunity to learn about the economics behind the current LN ecosystem.
Glad to hear that Smiley


While trying to open a new channel, I found out many nodes require at least 0.02 BTC per channel, but I'm not comfortable yet depositing $150 to an experimental network. It took me a while to find another one that accepts a lower amount. It's not confirmed yet, so I can't test it yet.
Until now, anything up to 3 satoshi had 0 fee, but anything above that had at least 1 satoshi fee. I'd like to see if 2 nodes lead to lower fees. My expectation is that payments take the cheapest possible route.


After opening a LN channel, you need to make a payment first to get inbound capacity. I bought 1000 Doge at https://www.coinplaza.it/ (ANN thread), but you can also exchange Bitcoin Lightning for Bitcoin.

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June 04, 2019, 05:13:30 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #24

Quote from: LoyceV
After opening a LN channel, you need to make a payment first to get inbound capacity
There appear to be several services that will open a channel to your node to give you inbound liquidity in exchange for a fee that is a percentage of the size of the channel plus what amounts to the opening and closing TX fee. The percentage these services charge depends on how long you want the channel to be ‘guaranteed’ to stay open, but this is really just their word and is not an actual guarantee. I found some of these services on 1ML, so I know they have at least many open Channels, or someone who does is willing to display their name. I haven’t figured out a way to gauge any of their reputation, so I cannot estimate the likelihood they will follow through on actually opening a channel that gives liquidity.

I had found one that claimed to open a channel of the same size if you have an open outbound channel to them, for only the cost of the tx fees, but the above still applies.

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June 04, 2019, 05:52:20 PM
 #25

On a slightly related note:
BlueWallet
On bluewallet.io they say: "You control your private keys", but on bluewallet.io/lightning they say "you can use custodial Lightning wallets (or choose to run your own node)".

If I understand correctly, that means your Lightning funds are entirely at their mercy if they decide to shut down their service.

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June 04, 2019, 06:13:32 PM
 #26

On a slightly related note:
BlueWallet
On bluewallet.io they say: "You control your private keys", but on bluewallet.io/lightning they say "you can use custodial Lightning wallets (or choose to run your own node)".

If I understand correctly, that means your Lightning funds are entirely at their mercy if they decide to shut down their service.
Correct. I was unable to find a non-custodial mobile wallet that doesn’t require a connection to a local LN wallet/node to operate.

The plan was to setup a local wallet on my laptop that I would transfer LN coin from to my phone when I would go out planning on spending coin via LN and transfer any excess coin back when I return home. This would reduce counter-party risk to only pocket money and only for short periods at a time, and could stop using their services if I noticed problems. As noted above, inbound LN liquidity is not free and this probably isn’t a good solution based on the current LN economy. I don’t have access to a computer I can have on 24/7, when I am away from home I can use for personal use. I could spin up a cheap VPS but this would reduce the cost benefits of using LN.

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June 04, 2019, 06:49:03 PM
 #27

I was unable to find a non-custodial mobile wallet that doesn’t require a connection to a local LN wallet/node to operate.
Eclair connects to a node that you choose. I started with one of the more or less default nodes (ACINQ NODE).
A custodial wallet isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if you only use it for small payments and don't risk too much on it. It might actually be an easier way to start with LN.

Quote
I could spin up a cheap VPS but this would reduce the cost benefits of using LN.
I'm still postponing (where's the time?) to get a VPS for loyce.club's data. Once I have one, adding a LN node would be a nice project too.
For now I'm using other nodes (kinda what I do when I use Electrum).

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June 06, 2019, 07:25:07 AM
 #28

I was unable to find a non-custodial mobile wallet that doesn’t require a connection to a local LN wallet/node to operate.
Eclair connects to a node that you choose. I started with one of the more or less default nodes (ACINQ NODE).
A custodial wallet isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if you only use it for small payments and don't risk too much on it. It might actually be an easier way to start with LN.
I don't have an android device, so Eclair is not an option for me.

A custodial LN wallet does have some real world advantages, such as giving the end user free inbound liquidity, and allowing the end user to only send one transaction to the custodian instead of having to open many channels with many nodes. If the custodian is well connected in the LN, the end user may also have less failed transactions.

The business model of custodians could be to use coin received by their users to open channels with liquidity they charge for. It is not clear this is the case with BlueWallet.

Presently, it is very difficult to judge if any custodial wallet is a scam. If any particular custodial wallet service gets very popular, they may become the target of hackers, and their operational model will require them to keep the majority of coin in a hot wallet type environment.

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June 06, 2019, 09:42:54 AM
 #29

I don't have an android device, so Eclair is not an option for me.
We're more or less "collecting" Android devices, so I can now literally use one device for one wallet, I'm still paranoid for installing new wallets, so I like to keep them strictly separated.

Quote
A custodial LN wallet does have some real world advantages, such as giving the end user free inbound liquidity, and allowing the end user to only send one transaction to the custodian instead of having to open many channels with many nodes. If the custodian is well connected in the LN, the end user may also have less failed transactions.
I'd like to see established trusted sites join this business. Exchanges for instance, although KYC isn't ideal, or maybe casinos.

Quote
The business model of custodians could be to use coin received by their users to open channels with liquidity they charge for.
I'd be okay paying a bit for that, or it could be used to lower their transaction fees, while getting more users for their business.


I deleted a Newbie's post. I'm not against a Newbie joining, but it has to be a real user who has an actual interest in LN. Not the generic default Newbie who has no idea what LN is, posts a Bitcoin address to asks for 0.1 mBTC here, and asks for 0.2 BTC in another topic. These I delete Tongue

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June 06, 2019, 11:20:10 PM
 #30

Very interested in trying this out. After some fiddling I think I managed to open an inbound channel for payments.

Amount: 0.1 mBTC (0.0001 BTC, or 10,000 satoshi).
Duration: one week.
Interest: 1% (0.001 mBTC (=0.000001 BTC or 100 satoshi)).

lightning:lnbc1pw0n8j6pp5790h8zncfhxjperah0tn8l07czrfuughgrfaw2n9fkywr8muzjlsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq5wharrjwufrhfphs87rpwf7l36hk4s786hr6fwdgaterye0lzz3pu6vz0pqv9jsalc3yxdw3cxgr rt49y870t7pz7x8dftf0nucmpngpwz2y9t


Cheers  Smiley

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June 07, 2019, 04:06:24 AM
 #31

lightning:lnbc1pw0n8j6pp5790h8zncfhxjperah0tn8l07czrfuughgrfaw2n9fkywr8muzjlsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq5wharrjwufrhfphs87rpwf7l36hk4s786hr6fwdgaterye0lzz3pu6vz0pqv9jsalc3yxdw3cxgr rt49y870t7pz7x8dftf0nucmpngpwz2y9t
Payment failed: "Channel is currently disabled, remote failure".

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June 07, 2019, 09:38:31 AM
 #32

lightning:lnbc1pw0n8j6pp5790h8zncfhxjperah0tn8l07czrfuughgrfaw2n9fkywr8muzjlsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq5wharrjwufrhfphs87rpwf7l36hk4s786hr6fwdgaterye0lzz3pu6vz0pqv9jsalc3yxdw3cxgr rt49y870t7pz7x8dftf0nucmpngpwz2y9t
Payment failed: "Channel is currently disabled, remote failure".

Hmm that's really weird, I don't see errors in my client. Maybe my phone went offline at some point?




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June 07, 2019, 02:38:40 PM
 #33

Hmm that's really weird, I don't see errors in my client. Maybe my phone went offline at some point?
It was set to expire in 6 hours, so that shouldn't be the problem. Let's try again with a new payment request?

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June 08, 2019, 07:22:07 PM
 #34

Hmm that's really weird, I don't see errors in my client. Maybe my phone went offline at some point?
It was set to expire in 6 hours, so that shouldn't be the problem. Let's try again with a new payment request?

Let's see if this one works

lightning:lnbc1pw0cz40pp544wcdru5s9ks88jp6n37schgsl5ptzvy3ws6qu6gzq545cr7kqzsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq8mu44hgczzukj8rawa4vtmrjzmg2mmeju3s8x9mqv6uzka26ny3p59jexhr8evus7fsrmjl8q8ug 2lteazftkxynm4ue8xd8q94pfwgqjfn4va

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June 08, 2019, 07:26:52 PM
 #35

lightning:lnbc1pw0cz40pp544wcdru5s9ks88jp6n37schgsl5ptzvy3ws6qu6gzq545cr7kqzsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq8mu44hgczzukj8rawa4vtmrjzmg2mmeju3s8x9mqv6uzka26ny3p59jexhr8evus7fsrmjl8q8ug 2lteazftkxynm4ue8xd8q94pfwgqjfn4va
Lightning Loan sent! The spaces are annoying on mobile, so I made a QR-code on my PC, then scanned from Eclair. Your request didn't ask for an amount, I sent 0.1 mBTC.
Fee paid: 2 sat!

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June 08, 2019, 07:46:43 PM
 #36

lightning:lnbc1pw0cz40pp544wcdru5s9ks88jp6n37schgsl5ptzvy3ws6qu6gzq545cr7kqzsdqqxqr4rqrzj qwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxhe5qq8mgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeq qjq8mu44hgczzukj8rawa4vtmrjzmg2mmeju3s8x9mqv6uzka26ny3p59jexhr8evus7fsrmjl8q8ug 2lteazftkxynm4ue8xd8q94pfwgqjfn4va
Lightning Loan sent! The spaces are annoying on mobile, so I made a QR-code on my PC, then scanned from Eclair. Your request didn't ask for an amount, I sent 0.1 mBTC.
Fee paid: 2 sat!

Received!  Grin

I didn't realise I could set an amount, I just saw that setting now.

Let me know how I can repay 

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June 09, 2019, 09:16:37 AM
 #37

What version of BitCoin is needed for this to work? And, sorry to ask, can you give a brief walk through commands to use?

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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June 09, 2019, 08:25:16 PM
 #38

Let me know how I can repay
When you're ready, I'll post a payment request. This expires in 6 hours, so I can't plan a week ahead.

What version of BitCoin is needed for this to work?
You need a Lightning wallet. See for instance Top 11 Wallets for the Bitcoin Lightning Network (disclaimer: I've only tested Eclair (and Tippin) by myself, be careful with untrusted software on your main devices).

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June 10, 2019, 08:24:17 AM
 #39


When you're ready, I'll post a payment request. This expires in 6 hours, so I can't plan a week ahead.



I'm ready  Smiley

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June 10, 2019, 08:35:35 AM
 #40

I'm ready  Smiley
Please pay 0.101 mBTC here:
Code:
lightning:lnbc101u1pw0u9skpp5lj2yggxc5jfy7hsr428ck2tutem8ec5nu3daqa20nn2ynrxv22mqdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq0nqj27c6434zsat2py74a3atfle4vrdtvsxt484f2sv4dde4l7ukkphlnmygu3l3mdwsd72r20399e8vp279q769l2lkqvmhn9n595qq0vk5yq

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June 10, 2019, 08:46:50 AM
 #41

I'm ready  Smiley
Please pay 0.101 mBTC here:
Code:
lightning:lnbc101u1pw0u9skpp5lj2yggxc5jfy7hsr428ck2tutem8ec5nu3daqa20nn2ynrxv22mqdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq0nqj27c6434zsat2py74a3atfle4vrdtvsxt484f2sv4dde4l7ukkphlnmygu3l3mdwsd72r20399e8vp279q769l2lkqvmhn9n595qq0vk5yq

Payment failed for some reason. I tried it twice with the same result


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June 10, 2019, 08:56:18 AM
 #42

Maybe Eclair didn't keep running in the background, I'll keep the screen on for a while. Try again?

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June 10, 2019, 10:49:27 AM
 #43

Maybe Eclair didn't keep running in the background, I'll keep the screen on for a while. Try again?


Failed again  Huh

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rroycilikART
.ELAD NETWORK.
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June 10, 2019, 11:02:36 AM
 #44

I don't know what causes it. Try paying to https://tippin.me/@LoyceVVal ?

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June 10, 2019, 12:01:23 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), LoyceV (1)
 #45

I don't know what causes it. Try paying to https://tippin.me/@LoyceVVal ?

This one worked  Grin

Payment hash 65109e8e0a6d9882674787c282bbc797684ce3a8665fb2836086113af8d6c605

I like the concept and the speed of LN transactions but I feel like there is still a lot to improve before we can think of mass adoption. Setting up an incoming channel should be a lot easier and it's not very convenient to need to have the client running all the time if you want to receive something. Also, 6 hours max expiry for a payment request is not enough.

In any case, thanks for a great trade!

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June 10, 2019, 01:14:11 PM
 #46

This one worked  Grin
I've sent it from Tippin to my Eclair wallet with no problems.

Quote
I like the concept and the speed of LN transactions but I feel like there is still a lot to improve before we can think of mass adoption. Setting up an incoming channel should be a lot easier and it's not very convenient to need to have the client running all the time if you want to receive something.
We're playing with experimental technology here. It's fun to do, but far from finished. From what I've seen, custodial wallets work easier than non-custodial wallets. For decentralization, I hope latter wallets will be improved, but I'm okay with using a custodial wallet for small payments if I have to.

Quote
Also, 6 hours max expiry for a payment request is not enough.
In many cases 10 minutes is enough, but indeed for payments through different time zones it's not very convenient if it expires before the other party has even seen it.

Quote
In any case, thanks for a great trade!
Thanks for joining this test Smiley

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June 11, 2019, 10:30:48 AM
Last edit: June 11, 2019, 03:20:04 PM by wwzsocki
 #47

...I don't have an android device, so Eclair is not an option for me.

Same here and additionally Bluewallet wich PrimeNumber7 used is only for Android and Mac. I have only windows on my computers and my phone.

This is a great opportunity to learn about the LN and the best way to do it is to send a transaction, download wallet, just do all of this, step by step by yourself.

From the discussion in this thread, I see that already involved members gathered a lot of new knowledge about the LN network.

Great idea @Loycev if you know any windows wallet which is safe to use I will be glad to try it.

 
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June 11, 2019, 11:44:10 AM
 #48

Great idea @Loycev if you know any windows wallet which is safe to use I will be glad to try it.
Top 11 Wallets for the Bitcoin Lightning Network gives 3 options. I can't tell you how safe they are, and I haven't tested them.

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June 18, 2019, 10:14:04 AM
Merited by iasenko (1)
 #49

Great idea Loyce! What node are you connected to?

Code:
lightning:lnbc100u1pws3w8tpp5eyzwh4hwtqkj83yeueqkgaycjxtnzqyza8fwkdvd6wakv6unx4dqdp2f3hhjcm92csxcmmpdcsxvmmjyppxjazrwfuhqar90qcqzpgxqyz5vq02ly82jzuhayx6pcd78p4xygmvnf44xwtq657llpnfu2k7qf2fwhlepgzqqzdd89kzsdkrjwpslrh0qkw70mfq5q0wvvmjd45fjveygpu307qq

[...]and then I'll setup my Lighting node as I dream to do this for very long time now.

If you need any help, hit me up! I can also help with setting up Zap on your mobile which will make it easier for you to manage your node.

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June 18, 2019, 10:38:12 AM
 #50

What node are you connected to?
I'm currently connected to one of ACINQ's nodes, which is the easiest to connect to from Eclair.

Quote
Code:
lightning:lnbc100u1pws3w8tpp5eyzwh4hwtqkj83yeueqkgaycjxtnzqyza8fwkdvd6wakv6unx4dqdp2f3hhjcm92csxcmmpdcsxvmmjyppxjazrwfuhqar90qcqzpgxqyz5vq02ly82jzuhayx6pcd78p4xygmvnf44xwtq657llpnfu2k7qf2fwhlepgzqqzdd89kzsdkrjwpslrh0qkw70mfq5q0wvvmjd45fjveygpu307qq
Funded! Welcome my third customer Cheesy
I paid a whopping 5.52 satoshi on fees.



I also installed BlueWallet, which allows receiving Lighting payments without funding a channel first. Using a custodial wallet certainly has benefits. BlueWallet recommends to only use it for small amounts.
From what I've seen, it charges (up to) 1% in fees for making a payment. For small payments, that's totally acceptable, and much less than the on-chain fee I paid to close a channel that failed to open (due to my low funding fee).

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June 19, 2019, 06:50:23 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #51


From what I've seen, [BlueWallet] charges (up to) 1% in fees for making a payment. For small payments, that's totally acceptable, and much less than the on-chain fee I paid to close a channel that failed to open (due to my low funding fee).
My understanding is BlueWallet will force the user to reserve 1% for possible LN channel fees, but will not necessarily actually charge this much, depending on the LN network fees. I have noticed their LN fees to be higher than sending transactions while connected to a few well connected nodes found on 1ML. The total cost, including tx fees, and fees paid to 3rd party nodes when using a non-custodial wallet, remains lower using BlueWallet.

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June 19, 2019, 07:26:40 AM
 #52

My understanding is BlueWallet will force the user to reserve 1% for possible LN channel fees, but will not necessarily actually charge this much, depending on the LN network fees. I have noticed their LN fees to be higher than sending transactions while connected to a few well connected nodes found on 1ML. The total cost, including tx fees, and fees paid to 3rd party nodes when using a non-custodial wallet, remains lower using BlueWallet.
I noticed BlueWallet is just a bit inaccurate. I did this starting with an empty wallet:
I deposited 200 sat. It shows the deposit correctly, but the balance shown was 198 sat.
I withdrew 196 sat. It shows the withdrawal correctly, the remaining balance was 2 sat.
I withdrew 2 sat. The balance now shows 0 sat, but the withdrawal is shown as 4 sat.

All in all nothing I worry about, and I assume they'll fix those tiny details at some point.

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June 20, 2019, 10:13:03 AM
 #53

I would like to repay my loan. Feel free to charge me more Wink I am going to open a bigger channel anyway. I will use Eclair Mobile this time so the routing fee should be different. By the way, a new non-custodial Lightning Network wallet has been released. It's available for both iOS and Android so it's perfect for most people here.

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June 20, 2019, 10:25:01 AM
 #54

I would like to repay my loan. Feel free to charge me more Wink
I like it, deal Cheesy I've increased the interest by 2% (from 100 to 102 satoshi). Please pay 0.00010102 BTC:
Code:
lnbc101020n1pwskh3rpp55cf2tn68dmg4pskula9elmk2yle0rsu7hfcewpx7l9m6wn8r2w8qdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq0dj7h8kdr68g6hp8222fwrps0y6pkd8pzmyjelzg6qts8nnxn77zecgtgzh07sr45j9z8k83m732jm70w0e9g9gjdewnjfhc7sju45qqy3y8zm

Quote
I am going to open a bigger channel anyway. I will use Eclair Mobile this time so the routing fee should be different. By the way, a new non-custodial Lightning Network wallet has been released. It's available for both iOS and Android so it's perfect for most people here.
I'll check it.

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June 20, 2019, 10:29:02 AM
 #55

I like it, deal Cheesy I've increased the interest by 2% (from 100 to 102 satoshi). Please pay 0.00010102 BTC:

Paid. The routing fee was lower this time, 2.01 satoshi and the transaction was instant despite being connected to different nodes.

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June 20, 2019, 10:33:13 AM
 #56

Paid.
Received.

Quote
The routing fee was lower this time, 2.01 satoshi and the transaction was instant despite being connected to different nodes.
With Eclair and the node I'm connected to, any transaction up to 3 satoshi doesn't take a fee and is very fast, anything above that charges a (small) fee and takes a bit longer (maybe 5 seconds) to find a route).
I've tried BlueWallet a couple of times too, but it's quite annoying with the amount of confirmation screens I get. That's probably good for serious usage, but not for testing it and sending a couple hundred transactions in a short time.

It probably doesn't help that I use a tablet for testing, while Eclair and BlueWallet are designed to be used on a phone. I just don't want to experiment on devices that I use for other things.

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June 20, 2019, 12:44:13 PM
 #57

Hello Loycev
I would like to participate

I was trying to open a channel but I am receiving weird messages
"Channel capacity not valid"
Cani use some already opened channel?

Sorry I am a newbie with this

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June 20, 2019, 03:31:40 PM
 #58

I was trying to open a channel but I am receiving weird messages
"Channel capacity not valid"
What wallet are you using?

Quote
Cani use some already opened channel?
I think that's only possible if you use a custodial wallet.

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June 20, 2019, 06:50:51 PM
 #59

What wallet are you using?

I am using Éclair wallet.
Do I need to send some funds to the wallet so I  open a channel?

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June 20, 2019, 07:33:26 PM
 #60

I am using Éclair wallet.
Do I need to send some funds to the wallet so I  open a channel?
Yes. A channel needs at least 1 mBTC (some nodes require more), and to do that, you'll need to fund the Eclair wallet first (on-chain).

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June 21, 2019, 02:44:10 PM
 #61

I am using Éclair wallet.
Do I need to send some funds to the wallet so I  open a channel?
Yes. A channel needs at least 1 mBTC (some nodes require more), and to do that, you'll need to fund the Eclair wallet first (on-chain).

Hello Loycev

I have opened a channel (still waiting for confirmation of the transaction

This is the channel id.
I found it very expensive to open the channel. Unless we are planning to make a lot of transitions, it is more expensive to use lightning network, right?

68a147394c28312b887c590b59523ed4886a0f9f14d2b7a27e76f98e7cf64c1f

In the next hours (when confirmed) I will make the payment request for 0.1mBTC

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June 21, 2019, 03:11:13 PM
 #62

I found it very expensive to open the channel. Unless we are planning to make a lot of transitions, it is more expensive to use lightning network, right?
It's up to you what fee to choose, but as I found out the hard way: if it doesn't confirm within 24 hours, the channel gets closed at a much higher fee. That's the part I can't control (I think the node decides), and fees for opening and closing channels are indeed the main worry I have for large scale LN adoption.
As long as the node keeps running, I don't really see a reason to close the channel.

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June 21, 2019, 04:14:37 PM
Last edit: June 21, 2019, 04:34:20 PM by bitmover
 #63

if it doesn't confirm within 24 hours, the channel gets closed at a much higher fee.
I think it will happen to me... i used 4 sat/byte . I thought "I am not in a hurry, i am not transferring to anyone"

Edit: But, I will be "charged" for closing the channel? How am I going to be charged, if I am the only one with the private key? Theoretically I would have to go to the wallet and pay this fee for closing the channel, right?
Or is Eclair getting my keys and closing channels after 24h? This is not clear to me.


Edit2: Just saw that to open the channel I needed to transfer 0.001 to another wallet.... so they have the keys... That is basically a loan.
I didn´t knew about it. I understood now what people were saying when they said nodes were becoming banks.

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June 21, 2019, 04:37:24 PM
Last edit: June 21, 2019, 04:47:36 PM by LoyceV
 #64

if it doesn't confirm within 24 hours, the channel gets closed at a much higher fee.
I think it will happen to me... i used 4 sat/byte . I thought "I am not in a hurry, i am not transferring to anyone"
If there was achange output, you can use CPFP on it.

Quote
Edit: But, I will be "charged" for closing the channel? How am I going to be charged, if I am the only one with the private key? Theoretically I would have to go to the wallet and pay this fee for closing the channel, right?
Or is Eclair getting my keys and closing channels after 24h? This is not clear to me.


Edit2: Just saw that to open the channel I needed to transfer 0.001 to another wallet.... so they have the keys... That is basically a loan.
I admit I don't know all the details of LN under the hood, but from what I understand you've send the funds to an address that both you and the node have some control over. I think your wallet gave the node a signed transaction which can be used to close the channel. So the node can decide to close the channel, thereby initiating another transfer (with a predefined lock time) to close the channel. When that happens because it's unconfirmed, the node does CPFP.
More of my experience with it here.

Quote
I didn´t knew about it. I understood now what people were saying when they said nodes were becoming banks.
I don't think that's entirely correct. The "banks" problem is more when nodes become very big and LN becomes very centralized, but even then anyone can still create their own node.

99Bitcoins.com can explain it much better than I can:
if I want to transact with my friend, we open an “off-chain” payment channel between us.
~snip~
Simply put, my friend and I write down how much each one owes the other without ever exchanging the money until we choose to settle the bill.
~snip~
When you open a payment channel, each of you deposits a certain amount of money that acts as a security deposit.
(further reading)

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June 22, 2019, 08:27:00 AM
 #65

Got confirmed  @LoyceV. 3 sat/byte got confirmed in about 17hours lol

I made the payment request of 0.1 mbtc
Let's hurry we have few hours left Smiley

lightning:lnbc100u1pwsmedmpp5syshv54ve523dncw498058hwjcul5vf37dcjvcqe0anw560504lsdq0dpjhj grvdaukxegxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z8qcuqq vjgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqju8560ztv9lwdndckytvjvnkvjadyzh72y975m8etjhr0gy8cgw4nded6 zvht8syv5355vpga4zw7hdx32c082x2mcenhzqcrlvna5cqj4qt0e

I will try to pay back in the same channel.

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June 22, 2019, 09:00:22 AM
 #66

lightning:lnbc100u1pwsmedmpp5syshv54ve523dncw498058hwjcul5vf37dcjvcqe0anw560504lsdq0dpjhj grvdaukxegxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z8qcuqq vjgqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqju8560ztv9lwdndckytvjvnkvjadyzh72y975m8etjhr0gy8cgw4nded6 zvht8syv5355vpga4zw7hdx32c082x2mcenhzqcrlvna5cqj4qt0e
Payment failed! "channel is currently disabled", RemoteFailure.
Does that mean your wallet is offline?

It worked 5 minutes later. Loan funded Cheesy
Fee paid: 2 satoshi.

Quote
I will try to pay back in the same channel.
I'm not sure if you can choose the channel by yourself, but you'll need a payment request from me before you can pay (they're working on an update that allows payments without sending a request first).

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June 22, 2019, 09:06:35 AM
Last edit: June 22, 2019, 09:36:44 AM by bitmover
 #67

You're fast! I made a new request and you just paid before I could paste the lightning request here. How? Lol

I will pay your back as soon as you post your request

Edit:
I could not find anything related to your payment, such as fees or from which address you paid. This is interesting for privacy, as companies cannot track customers even if they are using the same address in multiple lightning payments. I cannot even pay you back because I don't see where it came from

I cannot track you in this offchain database. Interesting. Sadly I cannot see the fees...

Waiting for your request LoyceV.

For me, so far I paid 0.4mbtc in fees for opening the channel and sending out the funds to eclair,, even using very low fees.

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June 22, 2019, 11:18:53 AM
 #68

I will pay your back as soon as you post your request
Here it is:
Code:
lnbc101u1pwsuz6fpp5um0962czsdaygfspmevz3ca3qkf6fn2q0xssdyz70wayg40a89pqdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqq2dcr4xw62cvlucqzxmhe3v7anhe23fz0p2gl5zdavfr6wpprzzxct53dmnu4vcfzfy047kkfw32mpl399tw28xqfv4um069zk6awxgpgkl8qc

Quote
I could not find anything related to your payment, such as fees or from which address you paid. This is interesting for privacy, as companies cannot track customers even if they are using the same address in multiple lightning payments. I cannot even pay you back because I don't see where it came from
I don't think there is such a thing as "using the same address twice", if you try to pay the same request again, it says it's already paid.
I'm not sure how much nodes can see from transactions that they don't process. I can imagine this is very good for mass adoption: no node will have to handle millions of transactions, all nodes will only handle the transactions that pass through that node.

Quote
Sadly I cannot see the fees...
2 sat Cheesy

Quote
For me, so far I paid 0.4mbtc in fees for opening the channel and sending out the funds to eclair,, even using very low fees.
How do you get to that amount? Is that the amount "reserved" in the channel that you can't send? I've noticed the amount I can send sometimes goes up and down a bit.

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June 22, 2019, 11:45:33 AM
 #69

Here it is:
Code:
lnbc101u1pwsuz6fpp5um0962czsdaygfspmevz3ca3qkf6fn2q0xssdyz70wayg40a89pqdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqq2dcr4xw62cvlucqzxmhe3v7anhe23fz0p2gl5zdavfr6wpprzzxct53dmnu4vcfzfy047kkfw32mpl399tw28xqfv4um069zk6awxgpgkl8qc
Paid. There is no payment receipt or whatsoever.

Same 2 sat fee.

No doubt it is good for Mass adoption. Nobody knows where he money comes from or where it goes.
I will close the channel in a few hours, in case someone else wants to use it just post here something...

When the channel is closed I will know my final balance and how much that test cost in fees.

Thanks LoyceV, and congrats on your initiative.

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June 22, 2019, 11:52:05 AM
 #70

Paid. There is no payment receipt or whatsoever.
Received Smiley
I'm still not entirely sure how payments are registered and how you can prove a request was paid. There are explorers like 1ML - Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine, but I'm haven't searched for transactions yet. I kinda expect it only shows nodes.

Quote
When the channel is closed I will know my final balance and how much that test cost in fees.
I'm curious to see that too, and I really dislike that I can't set a custom fee.

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June 22, 2019, 05:55:53 PM
 #71

I'm still not entirely sure how payments are registered and how you can prove a request was paid.

Payment hash proves that transaction has been paid. You can see it in Eclair Mobile in transaction details.

There are explorers like 1ML - Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine, but I'm haven't searched for transactions yet. I kinda expect it only shows nodes.

One of the benefits of using the Lightning Network is that no one can see your transactions. Nodes which route payments don't know which node initialized the payment and if the next node is the final one. Also, such explorers don't show private channels (those are incapable of routing payments, for example, mobile wallets use them).

I'm curious to see that too, and I really dislike that I can't set a custom fee.

That's a software limitation. Other wallets allow setting custom fee.

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June 22, 2019, 09:15:56 PM
 #72

I'm still not entirely sure how payments are registered and how you can prove a request was paid.

Payment hash proves that transaction has been paid. You can see it in Eclair Mobile in transaction details.
I saw that too. But I couldn't find anywhere to paste it so I could verify (see fees, receipt or whatever).

Quote
When the channel is closed I will know my final balance and how much that test cost in fees.
I'm curious to see that too, and I really dislike that I can't set a custom fee.

I tried to close the channel prematurely (now) and I was warned that I would pay higher fees.
I believe that in the way lightning channels are designed channels should only be closed prematurely if there is a reason or a misunderstanding between the parts. I read something like this in mastering bitcoin but I am lazy now to check it

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June 28, 2019, 03:37:06 PM
 #73

Bump! 10,000,000 milli-satoshis are waiting for a 7 day loan Cheesy

I'm just transferring some funds over - hopefully they won't take too long to arrive  Roll Eyes

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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June 28, 2019, 11:17:47 PM
 #74

Just a small update.

I have closed all channels (2, one created by and the other probably created by loycev).  I received a few Satoshis from those channels, but in the end this test was expensive. I don't know exactly why because the  fees aren't very transparent.

I send 0.0011 BTC to eclair, and my final balance now is 0.000652
Open and closing channels are transactions... I sent to eclair with 3 sat/byte and create a channel with 13 sat/byte. Even with those relatively low w fees , this was quite expensive.

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June 29, 2019, 12:22:53 AM
 #75

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind testing this out for you...

Bump! 10,000,000 milli-satoshis are waiting for a 7 day loan Cheesy

I'm just transferring some funds over - hopefully they won't take too long to arrive  Roll Eyes

I've already lost 66¢ by opening a channel (where my funds went I have no idea), so this is indeed a steep learning curve.

Code:
lnbc1pw3d2a3pp525tlssfzmtsaqqg26mampzz5k99snkkml8tjmqr5w268tu7vpnrsdq5235k6etvdaexgv3sxcmsxqr4rqtqadr90fkwu8wt7lfjw3yy68mufqyzkr4zs5sce8kdnscd78vd05auh7wvmre7nzuf723es0xfscxzqe77jjkz840k5h7lkwwddychqp5rt0uw

Open and closing channels are transactions... I sent to eclair with 3 sat/byte and create a channel with 13 sat/byte. Even with those relatively low w fees , this was quite expensive.

Opening a channel cost me 534 sats according to the TX or 5,340 sats on the eclair program, of which 0.00004060 BTC went to bc1qu6y02ypekdze9wrjhyma9eqkufnznzeu2x8et62umqe345uc06mqj3n3a4

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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June 29, 2019, 05:59:03 AM
 #76

I send 0.0011 BTC to eclair, and my final balance now is 0.000652
Open and closing channels are transactions... I sent to eclair with 3 sat/byte and create a channel with 13 sat/byte. Even with those relatively low w fees , this was quite expensive.
What was the fee for closing the channel? I assume that's the one that took a much larger share than when you opened it.

Quote
the  fees aren't very transparent
I think the fees have to be high, to prevent a double spend attack with an older state if it doesn't confirm fast enough. I hope it will at least become more transparant in the future.



I've already lost 66¢ by opening a channel (where my funds went I have no idea)
Miners?

Quote
Code:
lnbc1pw3d2a3pp525tlssfzmtsaqqg26mampzz5k99snkkml8tjmqr5w268tu7vpnrsdq5235k6etvdaexgv3sxcmsxqr4rqtqadr90fkwu8wt7lfjw3yy68mufqyzkr4zs5sce8kdnscd78vd05auh7wvmre7nzuf723es0xfscxzqe77jjkz840k5h7lkwwddychqp5rt0uw
I get "PAYMENT FAILED!" in Eclair: Route not found. Type: Local.

Quote
Opening a channel cost me 534 sats according to the TX or 5,340 sats on the eclair program, of which 0.00004060 BTC went to bc1qu6y02ypekdze9wrjhyma9eqkufnznzeu2x8et62umqe345uc06mqj3n3a4
The fee was 5340 sat (Blockchain.com doesn't show the 8th digit for some reason). The remaining 4060 sat is change. That happened to me too when I opened the channel: despite trying to send the maximum amount, it created a change. I think this was because I adjusted the fee.
It would have been much better if Eclair would open a slightly bigger channel and have no change (which is almost dust).

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June 29, 2019, 12:47:35 PM
 #77

I'm going to ask a mindnumbingly obvious question here.

If there's a TESTNET version of eclair https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair-mobile/releases why aren't we using testnet bitcoins?

Can a new thread for TESTNET Bitcoin lightning be started to run in parallel to this thread?

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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June 29, 2019, 12:51:46 PM
 #78

If there's a TESTNET version of eclair https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair-mobile/releases why aren't we using testnet bitcoins?
It's more fun to play with the real stuff Smiley

Quote
Can a new thread for TESTNET Bitcoin lightning be started to run in parallel to this thread?
I'm not doing it (and I'm not sure if it would be allowed on the Lending board), but feel free to create one.
Timelord2067's Trusted Testnet Thunder Timepayments?

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June 29, 2019, 12:55:05 PM
 #79

If there's a TESTNET version of eclair https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair-mobile/releases why aren't we using testnet bitcoins?
It's more fun to play with the real stuff Smiley

Quote
Can a new thread for TESTNET Bitcoin lightning be started to run in parallel to this thread?
I'm not doing it (and I'm not sure if it would be allowed on the Lending board), but feel free to create one.

No. No. No. Thank you for the suggestion, but no.  I thought we were just testing out the lightning network.

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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June 29, 2019, 05:24:39 PM
 #80

No. No. No. Thank you for the suggestion, but no.  I thought we were just testing out the lightning network.

If you want to test it out without touching your mainnet coins then install Eclair Mobile Testnet, grab some free testnet coins and buy yourself a coffee via the Lightning Network.

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June 30, 2019, 12:48:22 AM
 #81

No. No. No. Thank you for the suggestion, but no.  I thought we were just testing out the lightning network.

If you want to test it out without touching your mainnet coins then install Eclair Mobile Testnet, grab some free testnet coins and buy yourself a coffee via the Lightning Network.

Thanks for the faucet link - I'd lost it quite a long time ago (it was empty at the time)



Am trying it again: (main-net)

Code:
lnbc1pw3spvspp5zhcz69a3jhq3emxphnvrtfnmytffvgm7w2mraqcxesr0n29v9lgsdq5235k6etvdaexgv3sxcmsxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrmksz4xx46f4paayk4ym0fn09t3vzdwqs8v2wm4q0puf54ej07dp5m0lyy4ps76z2z3rukgxyceuah8kc936q45tva9ze0ul4xp44mcpy5dq0v

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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June 30, 2019, 01:43:09 AM
 #82

I stumbled upon this by accident, (I havn't been on Lending in ages)
LLLLL is almost a Tounge Twister! I'm really happy to see this service BTW! #StackingSats
I'm also stoked to see this many users playing with LN now!
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June 30, 2019, 08:24:10 AM
Last edit: June 30, 2019, 10:13:48 AM by LoyceV
 #83

Am trying it again: (main-net)

Code:
lnbc1pw3spvspp5zhcz69a3jhq3emxphnvrtfnmytffvgm7w2mraqcxesr0n29v9lgsdq5235k6etvdaexgv3sxcmsxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrmksz4xx46f4paayk4ym0fn09t3vzdwqs8v2wm4q0puf54ej07dp5m0lyy4ps76z2z3rukgxyceuah8kc936q45tva9ze0ul4xp44mcpy5dq0v
It was night here, so your request expired (that's a serious shortcoming of using 6 hour expiration times on a global payment system!). But there's another problem: since last night, Eclair Wallet tells me there's a temporary node problem so I can't send anything. I'll wait if this gets resolved or I may need to force close the channel.

Update: I can send up to 4 satoshi, anything larger gives an error. I'm not sure why.

I've funded BlueWallet, it's now waiting for confirmation. It has an annoying bug on Android: when entering the BTC amount, the keyboard doesn't show a decimal dot. I had to copy/paste the amount to be able to send less than 1 Bitcoin.

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June 30, 2019, 11:20:34 AM
 #84

It was night here, so your request expired (that's a serious shortcoming of using 6 hour expiration times on a global payment system!). But there's another problem: since last night, Eclair Wallet tells me there's a temporary node problem so I can't send anything. I'll wait if this gets resolved or I may need to force close the channel.

Update: I can send up to 4 satoshi, anything larger gives an error. I'm not sure why.

I've funded BlueWallet, it's now waiting for confirmation. It has an annoying bug on Android: when entering the BTC amount, the keyboard doesn't show a decimal dot. I had to copy/paste the amount to be able to send less than 1 Bitcoin.

Damm it! You were online a moment ago!

Code:
lnbc1pw339a4pp5k29mr7j4rqm8x3hk3xfzu2t9jxzvy9aldtskcxv65crfg5ja29sqdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq5kp53erns9t04y2mewfgk8nyafknv06a0jeefv95ptyylj8eku3hzcddmzeyppgl4lrr2acz2euqs7g67c0nagxq4qalamgzt5h7hksqh43msl

My channel (Node) seems OK, I think I have worked out that funds get shuffled about when a node is created sometimes the other end gains funds but the actual balance is showing in your wallet (when in fact it's not).

I guess it's in anticipation of the funds going out that they are "parked" elsewhere.

I'd say the funds don't go to miners, but to the "nodes" carrying the signal.  I might investigate seeing if I can keep a couple of connections open.  With more channels open, I'd say more funds are parked elsewhere.  Strange setup.  Plus there doesn't seem to be any actual way to send my funds out, I have to wait for a funds request to come in.

Code:
Re: Legendary LoyceV's Luscious, Loopy and Lip-smacking "Little Lightning Loans"

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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June 30, 2019, 11:43:13 AM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #85

-snip

Why don't you open a channel with LNchat's node? Wink I reboot the server manually once a week so the downtime is negligible.

I guess it's in anticipation of the funds going out that they are "parked" elsewhere.

Coins are locked in a multi-signature address which is in control of both parties.

I'd say the funds don't go to miners, but to the "nodes" carrying the signal.  I might investigate seeing if I can keep a couple of connections open.  

The Lightning Network is an off-chain scaling solution so that's why miners don't participate in payments (except when closing and opening a channel). It works thanks to Hash Time Locked Contracts.

Plus there doesn't seem to be any actual way to send my funds out, I have to wait for a funds request to come in.

That's a known problem which has been already addressed. Sphinx solves it but it's available only to nodes which update to a specific branch.

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June 30, 2019, 01:21:22 PM
 #86



That pretty much answers my questions, thanks.

Quote
Why don't you open a channel with LNchat's node? Wink I reboot the server manually once a week so the downtime is negligible.

I'm working on it.

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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July 02, 2019, 04:35:43 PM
 #87

Damm it! You were online a moment ago!
Try again if you still want a 0.1 mBTC loan Smiley Just keep in mind I'm asleep during Amsterdam night time.

Code:
Re: Legendary LoyceV's Luscious, Loopy and Lip-smacking "Little Lightning Loans"
Lol, too cheesy Cheesy

Why don't you open a channel with LNchat's node? Wink
Judging by the Node Rank™, my current node (which works again) is much better connected.
If Eclair can't route a payment again, I now have a small amount in BlueWallet too. The main benefit: I could fund it with a low amount at low fee. The most annoying thing: it doesn't update balances realtime after a payment, I have to either refresh it or wait a bit.

I'd advise against taking a loan to take a Lightning Loan just to test LN Smiley

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July 02, 2019, 05:02:05 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #88

I'd advise against taking a loan to take a Lightning Loan just to test LN Smiley

You won't be able to pay back the loan, because opening and closing channels costs miners fees , also txs to eclair wallet. So you will pay at least 4 transaction fees, and those open/close fees are quite obscure to me (spent much more than expected)

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July 02, 2019, 05:16:20 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #89

-snip

Not to mention that he will also have to spend some coins in order to be able to receive payments. @Timelord2067 check out this website.

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July 02, 2019, 08:52:31 PM
 #90

@LoyceV it looks like that the problem of too high closing and opening fee has been addressed by Lightning Labs team. Users will be able to use either RBF or CPFP if the fee is too low. I will prepare a detailed post on the latest LND update tomorrow. Eclair Mobile is powered by Eclair's implementation of the Lightning Network so it won't be available for you anytime soon Sad

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July 03, 2019, 02:03:20 AM
 #91

I'd advise against taking a loan to take a Lightning Loan just to test LN Smiley
You won't be able to pay back the loan, because opening and closing channels costs miners fees , also txs to eclair wallet. So you will pay at least 4 transaction fees, and those open/close fees are quite obscure to me (spent much more than expected)

Yeh I'm seeing there's a few coins that need to be locked away just to be able to transact on the Lightning Network.

Not to mention that he will also have to spend some coins in order to be able to receive payments. @Timelord2067 check out this website.

I'm looking at trying out testnet coins for a little while and will then try out the main-net version again.

Timelord2067's Trusted Testnet Thunder Timepayments?

Soon my precious...  Cool

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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July 06, 2019, 01:04:22 PM
 #92

Bump! 10,000,000 milli-satoshis are waiting for a 7 day loan Cheesy

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July 08, 2019, 06:06:41 AM
 #93

Trying again (I have inbound this time)

Code:
lnbc1pwj9h9wpp5g0rv83yfcjg5elzuejmdtxsefnlps6xzttj4gjgqkjhjkqy86yqsdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq4whdkcv375dy5k4xr5ndpmer5ae9pyak7ssnuwtdl6ypawruttxycp6f6au8l54m3xma4gjtcmtu8vxqeep3sg8j44prk6awz4qx5mqp4y9km9

I figure you're trying to redistribute the incoming from just one node across many channels?

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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July 08, 2019, 07:29:44 AM
 #94

Code:
lnbc1pwj9h9wpp5g0rv83yfcjg5elzuejmdtxsefnlps6xzttj4gjgqkjhjkqy86yqsdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq4whdkcv375dy5k4xr5ndpmer5ae9pyak7ssnuwtdl6ypawruttxycp6f6au8l54m3xma4gjtcmtu8vxqeep3sg8j44prk6awz4qx5mqp4y9km9
I used BlueWallet this time, and the payment is currently "in transit". I'm not sure how long it will stay that way, it may or may not complete.
BlueWallet used a whopping 100 sat fee.

Quote
I figure you're trying to redistribute the incoming from just one node across many channels?
That's something for the Lightning Network itself to figure out, but from what I've seen earlier, it didn't use multiple channels on my side.

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July 08, 2019, 08:30:44 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #95

I figure you're trying to redistribute the incoming from just one node across many channels?
That's something for the Lightning Network itself to figure out, but from what I've seen earlier, it didn't use multiple channels on my side.

Payments can't be split automatically across multiple channels, yet. The only thing one can do is try sending a few smaller transactions but that might be too costly and take a lot of time.

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July 08, 2019, 12:38:53 PM
 #96

Payments can't be split automatically across multiple channels, yet. The only thing one can do is try sending a few smaller transactions but that might be too costly and take a lot of time.

On my test-net Eclair I have a few channels open with small amounts and a couple of bigger channel amounts.  I hadn't realised payments (outbound) wouldn't be split.



My main-net Eclair has one inbound good for BTC 0.01 so I should be able to receive your (LoyceV's) L-Loan, but alas, nothing as yet.



I'm being cautious about how much BTC I'm willing to commit to the Lightning Network as it seems to be one way in, but no way out.  Although the docs say it's good for traders, I'm figuring traders will want to cash out their acquired BTC and with channels being in or out traffic only, then they probably won't want to use it.  In saying that it'll probably become a closed system once enough bitcoin is committed to it.

Do you want to try sending me a request and I'll see if I can fill it from my end?

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
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main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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July 08, 2019, 04:55:39 PM
 #97

My main-net Eclair has one inbound good for BTC 0.01 so I should be able to receive your (LoyceV's) L-Loan, but alas, nothing as yet.
The payment that was "in transit" disappeared from BlueWallet without a trace (my balance wasn't reduced). I can only guess it couldn't find a channel.

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Do you want to try sending me a request and I'll see if I can fill it from my end?
I could, but that would be the worst loan ever Tongue

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July 09, 2019, 02:31:04 PM
 #98

Electrum is adding Lightning Support in a few weeks.

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Electrum’s founder Thomas Voegtlin told CoinDesk from the BIP001 blockchain event in Odessa, Ukraine, that work on the solution for sending lightning transactions with the Electrum wallet is now close to its official release.

While he declined to reveal a specific release date, Voegtlin said:

    “We’ve been doing this work for about a year in a separate branch [on GitHub] and we’ve reached the point when we are ready to merge it with our master branch. This is going to happen in the coming weeks until the end of July, and it means that the next major release will have lightning support.”

https://www.coindesk.com/electrum-wallet-is-adding-support-for-bitcoins-lightning-network

I think that a better wallet will certainly give us more transparency over the fees for creating/closing channels. I think that Eclair made a nice job because it is easy to use, but certainly it lacks control of the fees and transparency over the costs.

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July 09, 2019, 11:42:28 PM
 #99

Did you receive the micro tip a couple of days ago? 1 satoshi and 1/500th of a sat as the TX fee.

I now have 1.0002 sats more I can receive from others, so it looks like no lightning node receives any of the TX fees so the Lightning Network could possibly be a closed system?

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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July 10, 2019, 06:24:53 AM
 #100

Did you receive the micro tip a couple of days ago? 1 satoshi and 1/500th of a sat as the TX fee.
1 satoshi arrived at tippin.me Smiley I didn't check it earlier as nobody (else) uses it Tongue

Quote
I now have 1.0002 sats more I can receive from others, so it looks like no lightning node receives any of the TX fees so the Lightning Network could possibly be a closed system?
The Lightning Network is a closed system indeed. It seems your node charges 0.2% fee on all transactions, including small ones. For bigger transactions, other nodes in the channel might charge a fee too, so the node you're connected to pays them part of the fee.

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July 10, 2019, 12:35:48 PM
 #101

Did you receive the micro tip a couple of days ago? 1 satoshi and 1/500th of a sat as the TX fee.
1 satoshi arrived at tippin.me Smiley I didn't check it earlier as nobody (else) uses it Tongue

I saw the link on your mobile UID, so I thought I'd try it out to see if the main-net was connected.

Quote
Quote
I now have 1.0002 sats more I can receive from others, so it looks like no lightning node receives any of the TX fees so the Lightning Network could possibly be a closed system?
The Lightning Network is a closed system indeed. It seems your node charges 0.2% fee on all transactions, including small ones. For bigger transactions, other nodes in the channel might charge a fee too, so the node you're connected to pays them part of the fee.

I've got one connection in and my one out.

Code:
lnbc1pwjtk4vpp506yzzt4rvqvyquf58qpa7rrhyd97yfqn247a9nmarh3qjmcyprrqdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjquuf0083l0unn03hm4yu5wtv9u0uyjku56vwpw46eknxwj9l8q9sny4hucx2llw68vfkz6nvdcl8483py39hskht7canx49gt239cy7cpcrtm2p

My testnet has over a dozen out and none in.

*edit*

Drats! You were online a moment ago! Now you're offline again...

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main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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July 10, 2019, 12:45:39 PM
 #102

Code:
lnbc1pwjtk4vpp506yzzt4rvqvyquf58qpa7rrhyd97yfqn247a9nmarh3qjmcyprrqdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjquuf0083l0unn03hm4yu5wtv9u0uyjku56vwpw46eknxwj9l8q9sny4hucx2llw68vfkz6nvdcl8483py39hskht7canx49gt239cy7cpcrtm2p
It finally worked: 0.0001 BTC Lightning Loan sent! I paid 34 satoshi fee from BlueWallet.

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July 10, 2019, 12:51:58 PM
 #103

Code:
lnbc1pwjtk4vpp506yzzt4rvqvyquf58qpa7rrhyd97yfqn247a9nmarh3qjmcyprrqdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjquuf0083l0unn03hm4yu5wtv9u0uyjku56vwpw46eknxwj9l8q9sny4hucx2llw68vfkz6nvdcl8483py39hskht7canx49gt239cy7cpcrtm2p
It finally worked: 0.0001 BTC Lightning Loan sent! I paid 34 satoshi fee from BlueWallet.

Yep confirmed - have just received something 7e88212... Will be in touch in a day or two to repay.

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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July 13, 2019, 08:46:20 AM
 #104

Yep confirmed - have just received something 7e88212... Will be in touch in a day or two to repay.

Did you want to try sending me a loan repayment link please?

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main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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July 13, 2019, 08:58:31 AM
 #105

I'll continue my experiences with Eclair Wallet here: A couple of days ago, I made a 1 sat/byte transaction with Eclair. It now has 60+ confirmations, but Eclair still says it's unconfirmed. In Settings > Network Infor, I clicked "RESET NETWORK DATABASE", and now it's okay again.



Did you want to try sending me a loan repayment link please?
This request for 0.101 mBTC  is  valid for 6 hours:
Code:
lnbc101u1pwjnxlxpp5x2r3zxkv8xgrm5u8rgyc7l27yd437ay925nmseldyyer2nddj00sdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq5cyl7nlnx3lt26s8j85hhss9v9gmscjg8hymt6kt49p2szt336szh442a95ewuzuqc5nxncwcx88792cv8mg7u6dyag9nldst0jkycgpluet68
However, Eclair is still reloading it's Lightning Network settings. This takes a while, so I'm not sure if this payment request works already.

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July 13, 2019, 09:09:22 AM
Last edit: July 13, 2019, 11:08:44 AM by Timelord2067
 #106

I'll continue my experiences with Eclair Wallet here: A couple of days ago, I made a 1 sat/byte transaction with Eclair. It now has 60+ confirmations, but Eclair still says it's unconfirmed. In Settings > Network Infor, I clicked "RESET NETWORK DATABASE", and now it's okay again.



Did you want to try sending me a loan repayment link please?
This request for 0.101 mBTC  is  valid for 6 hours:
Code:
lnbc101u1pwjnxlxpp5x2r3zxkv8xgrm5u8rgyc7l27yd437ay925nmseldyyer2nddj00sdqdwpshjgrzv93kkxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq5cyl7nlnx3lt26s8j85hhss9v9gmscjg8hymt6kt49p2szt336szh442a95ewuzuqc5nxncwcx88792cv8mg7u6dyag9nldst0jkycgpluet68
However, Eclair is still reloading it's Lightning Network settings. This takes a while, so I'm not sure if this payment request works already.

Apparently it's paid already before I can even get back to this thread.   Shocked  (hash 3287111acc399....)

I've also discovered if you scan a wallet address you can send and receive via either the block chain or the lightning network, so Eclair has a home on my mobile device from now on.

Grin

Edit - are you wanting to share your node address to boost your channels list?

2nd edit:

Maybe Eclair didn't keep running in the background, I'll keep the screen on for a while. Try again?

I'm pretty certain Eclair doesn't run in the background.

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
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main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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July 13, 2019, 11:26:11 AM
 #107

Apparently it's paid already before I can even get back to this thread.   Shocked  (hash 3287111acc399....)
Received! The only weird thing is that the label ("pay back") disappeared when you paid it.

Quote
I've also discovered if you scan a wallet address you can send and receive via either the block chain or the lightning network
I highly doubt that. You can use the same button to scan either a LN request or a Bitcoin address, but you can't send a LN payment directly to an addy.

Quote
Edit - are you wanting to share your node address to boost your channels list?
I'm not running a node.

Quote
I'm pretty certain Eclair doesn't run in the background.
Your payment arrived with Eclair in the background, but a few days back an on-chain payment only arrived when I opened the app. I think it's an Android setting, Android keeps closing apps that consume battery in the background (I installed Eclair on a tablet).

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July 13, 2019, 11:33:34 AM
 #108


Quote
I've also discovered if you scan a wallet address you can send and receive via either the block chain or the lightning network
I highly doubt that. You can use the same button to scan either a LN request or a Bitcoin address, but you can't send a LN payment directly to an addy.


Sorry I didn't explain myself properly - what I meant was (in Eclair) I can both receive and send on the block-chain by scanning the wallet address as easily as I can send or receive a lightning network transaction by scanning the relevant details.  IE I can do both LN and BC (Block Chain) with the one app, so Eclair ticks all the boxes which I wouldn't have even considered had you not started your Lightning Loans, so Kudos.

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
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July 15, 2019, 03:26:49 PM
 #109

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly - what I meant was (in Eclair) I can both receive and send on the block-chain by scanning the wallet address as easily as I can send or receive a lightning network transaction by scanning the relevant details.  IE I can do both LN and BC (Block Chain) with the one app, so Eclair ticks all the boxes which I wouldn't have even considered had you not started your Lightning Loans, so Kudos.
You're welcome Smiley Experimenting with the Lightning Network is of course the main purpose of this topic, and loans with 100 satoshi interest are only meant to demonstrate the potential of LN Smiley

That being said, I'm not trusting Eclair with any significant amounts, as I have no way of knowing how secure it is.

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July 15, 2019, 05:05:03 PM
 #110

That being said, I'm not trusting Eclair with any significant amounts, as I have no way of knowing how secure it is.

You should be fine as long as you set up backups to Google Drive. They are automatically encrypted. Mobile wallets can be considered more secure than dedicated nodes since they are not reachable at all times (funds are not stored in a hot wallet). As for the timelocks, I have already explained them here.

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July 16, 2019, 07:08:02 AM
 #111

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly - what I meant was (in Eclair) I can both receive and send on the block-chain by scanning the wallet address as easily as I can send or receive a lightning network transaction by scanning the relevant details.  IE I can do both LN and BC (Block Chain) with the one app, so Eclair ticks all the boxes which I wouldn't have even considered had you not started your Lightning Loans, so Kudos.
You're welcome Smiley Experimenting with the Lightning Network is of course the main purpose of this topic, and loans with 100 satoshi interest are only meant to demonstrate the potential of LN Smiley

That being said, I'm not trusting Eclair with any significant amounts, as I have no way of knowing how secure it is.

Hi I'm interested in this
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July 16, 2019, 07:32:27 AM
 #112

Hi I'm interested in this
Considering your Newbie and Trust status, I'm willing to give 50% of the normal Little Lightning Loan amount. Please post a payment request.