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Author Topic: Livecoin.net Scam  (Read 9800 times)
suchmoon
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July 12, 2019, 10:13:30 PM
 #281

Are two different people running the nutildah account?

IANAL, but he didn't say he wouldn't call you an asshole for that so technically it seems he didn't break a written contract with you  Smiley

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July 12, 2019, 11:59:18 PM
Merited by xtraelv (1)
 #282

You mean people don't want to come forward and post about a problem with an exchange that locks your funds for doing so? Shocking!

Yeah because nobody in the history of the forum has ever created a second account  Roll Eyes

They'd find out who's the person behind the account and ban him anyway from their exchange for daring to write about their negative experiences.

Apart from that, I'm strongly inclined to believe that it was mostly through Hhampuz's effort that Livecoin agreed to run a signature campaign here (given how eagerly he tried to fix matters with this foul accusation). So the real question that we should ask ourselves is how come that they discard the forum as irrelevant as far as their reputation is concerned. I think that should be a reality check for us all as to how important BTT is these days

It tells more about their professionalism (or lack thereof) than about bitcointalk itself. Their replies say all.

This particular instance of "wrongdoing" by Livecoin, and its lapses in diligent monitoring still aren't enough for me to deem it a "scam exchange."
I think the label of "scammer" for the Livecoin account is too harsh. Unfavorable Terms of Service - sure. Occasionally irresponsible -- likely. Scammers? No.

Why then has Hhampuz withdrawn his opposition to the flag?

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July 13, 2019, 01:07:04 AM
Last edit: July 13, 2019, 01:23:46 AM by izooomrud
 #283

OP had access to his funds for months, bitched incessantly that he couldn't withdraw his MONA, was offered multiple resolutions, kept bitching, got his account suspended for violating ToS. As morally uncompelling as they may be, until brought to a court of law and ruled otherwise, ToS stand as a contract to which OP agreed.
What decisions are you talking about? To all my questions about Mona, they answered that I should solve this myself with the developer. They did not want to solve anything! And they blocked me after public criticism of their work, after which they referred to the violation of the rules prohibiting falsehood. But they have no rules that really forbid lying, so stop talking nonsense!

Livecoin.net CКAM, oбвинeниe TУT. Пoддepжaть флaги пpoтив cкaмepoв и нaпиcaть им oтзыв мoжнo TУT. Livecoin is SCAM accusation HERE. Support flags against scammers and write a feedback HERE
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July 13, 2019, 04:09:08 AM
 #284

And BTW Fuck You teeGUMES for red tagging me over this shit. You're a major asshole.
I didn't abandon the sig campaign 30 hours early because I don't believe I'm at risk of "promoting a scam exchange." I still don't consider Livecoin to be scammers -- if this offends you, tag me for it.

Are two different people running the nutildah account?

Fair enough. But the way which you wrote it up is tremendously assholish and indicative of a severe impairment in reading comprehension as well as an overwhelming penchant for petty retribution. You're pretty notorious for writing bullshit trusts already so I shouldn't have expected less.

OP had access to his funds for months, bitched incessantly that he couldn't withdraw his MONA, was offered multiple resolutions, kept bitching, got his account suspended for violating ToS. As morally uncompelling as they may be, until brought to a court of law and ruled otherwise, ToS stand as a contract to which OP agreed.
What decisions are you talking about? To all my questions about Mona, they answered that I should solve this myself with the developer. They did not want to solve anything! And they blocked me after public criticism of their work, after which they referred to the violation of the rules prohibiting falsehood. But they have no rules that really forbid lying, so stop talking nonsense!

From the Livecoin ToS:

Quote
The Customer guarantees not to disclose any information, obtained from the Service support operator, in any channels of communication. Violation of this rule will lead to the account termination without refunding of the remaining balance of the account.

Other relevant clauses:

Quote
The Customer acknowledges that she/he should independently monitor Livecoin Platform newsletters in order to get the latest update on the assets listing/disabling/de-listing, as well as on any other relevant information; in case the Customer fails to get a timely update, the Customer is not liable to lodge compensation claims against the Platform for the losses incurred.

Quote
The Customer agrees, that monitoring the newsfeed, published at the relevant section of the Website, or in social networks or other public accounts of the Service, is an obligatory condition of using the Service. The Customer agrees to bear sole responsibility for any losses of funds, incurred by neglect of the Service notifications or recommendations.

Here's another part of the ToS that you seem to have broken:

Quote
When opening the account (“Account”), the Customer acknowledges and warrants, that:
1. She/he accepts the present Terms
2. She/he is at least 18 years or older and is legally fully eligible to accept these Terms and trade on the Platform

B cлeдyющeм гoдy я пepexoжy в 11 клacc, a ты кaк-тo нeyвaжитeльнo кo мнe oтнocишьcя! Tы пpeдocтaвляeшь дoкaзaтeльcтвa бeз дoлжнoгo yвaжeния!

Translated:

Quote
Next year, I turn to grade 11, and you somehow disrespect me! You provide proof without due respect!

In case my translation might have been off:

кoмy лeнь paзбиpaтьcя в cyти флaгa. кopoткoe oпиcaниe, и мoe личнoe мнeниe:
пocлe aтaки 51% нa ceть кoинa MONA, биpжa зaкpылa вывoд дaннoй мoнeты, чтo нe пoнpaвилocь oднoмy нeypaвнoвeшeннoмy шкoльникy, кoтopый вмecтo диaлoгa выбpaл пyть yгpoз, лжи и шaнтaжa. coздaл дaнный флaг и c пoмoщью мaнипyляций в aнглoязычнoй вeткe нaбpaл кocтяк гoлocoв в пoддepжкy дaнoгo флaгa.

Translated:

Quote
who are too lazy to understand the essence of the flag. short description, and my personal opinion:
after the 51% attack on the MONA koin network, the exchange closed the withdrawal of this coin, which was not liked by an unbalanced schoolchild who, instead of dialogue, chose the path of threats, lies and blackmail. created this flag and with the help of manipulations in the English-speaking branch collected the backbone of votes in support of this flag.

From the ToS:

Quote
In case the Customer violates any of the provisions of the present Terms, the Service reserves the right to terminate the Customer’s account and block all funds therein, including Cryptocurrency.

Tell me OP, are you 18 years of age or older? Maybe Grade 11 has a different meaning in Russian than it does in the rest of the world.

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July 13, 2019, 05:42:59 AM
 #285

You mean people don't want to come forward and post about a problem with an exchange that locks your funds for doing so? Shocking!

Yeah because nobody in the history of the forum has ever created a second account  Roll Eyes

They'd find out who's the person behind the account and ban him anyway from their exchange for daring to write about their negative experiences.

Apart from that, I'm strongly inclined to believe that it was mostly through Hhampuz's effort that Livecoin agreed to run a signature campaign here (given how eagerly he tried to fix matters with this foul accusation). So the real question that we should ask ourselves is how come that they discard the forum as irrelevant as far as their reputation is concerned. I think that should be a reality check for us all as to how important BTT is these days

It tells more about their professionalism (or lack thereof) than about bitcointalk itself. Their replies say all

Weak point as BTT is notorious for its petty infighting, scheming and warring built around the trust system (or rather its abuse). This very thread is quite an example of just that

This particular instance of "wrongdoing" by Livecoin, and its lapses in diligent monitoring still aren't enough for me to deem it a "scam exchange."
I think the label of "scammer" for the Livecoin account is too harsh. Unfavorable Terms of Service - sure. Occasionally irresponsible -- likely. Scammers? No.

Why then has Hhampuz withdrawn his opposition to the flag?

I don't know as this is not my post. I guess you should ask him

B cлeдyющeм гoдy я пepexoжy в 11 клacc, a ты кaк-тo нeyвaжитeльнo кo мнe oтнocишьcя! Tы пpeдocтaвляeшь дoкaзaтeльcтвa бeз дoлжнoгo yвaжeния!

Translated:

Quote
Next year, I turn to grade 11, and you somehow disrespect me! You provide proof without due respect!

...

Tell me OP, are you 18 years of age or older? Maybe Grade 11 has a different meaning in Russian than it does in the rest of the world

He was kidding and it was meant as a joke really, though there is still a small chance that he was not. But personally, I don't think he is much older than 18 anyway

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July 13, 2019, 07:25:58 AM
 #286

From the Livecoin ToS:

Quote
The Customer guarantees not to disclose any information, obtained from the Service support operator, in any channels of communication. Violation of this rule will lead to the account termination without refunding of the remaining balance of the account.

I was not informed about the violation of this clause, which is confirmed by the correspondence. I myself deleted this correspondence and informed the Livecoin administration, but this was not enough for them, and they began to demand to delete everything I wrote, although everything else does not violate their rules!


Translated:

Quote
Next year, I turn to grade 11, and you somehow disrespect me! You provide proof without due respect!


From the ToS:

Quote
In case the Customer violates any of the provisions of the present Terms, the Service reserves the right to terminate the Customer’s account and block all funds therein, including Cryptocurrency.

Tell me OP, are you 18 years of age or older? Maybe Grade 11 has a different meaning in Russian than it does in the rest of the world.

You present the same stupid facts that present to livecoin. Only an idiot cannot understand that this was said for the sake of trolling. To do this, read all the correspondence from where you got this quote. There scam defender, like you, called me a schoolboy

Livecoin.net CКAM, oбвинeниe TУT. Пoддepжaть флaги пpoтив cкaмepoв и нaпиcaть им oтзыв мoжнo TУT. Livecoin is SCAM accusation HERE. Support flags against scammers and write a feedback HERE
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July 13, 2019, 07:51:55 AM
 #287

From the Livecoin ToS:

Quote
The Customer guarantees not to disclose any information, obtained from the Service support operator, in any channels of communication. Violation of this rule will lead to the account termination without refunding of the remaining balance of the account.

I was not informed about the violation of this clause, which is confirmed by the correspondence. I myself deleted this correspondence and informed the Livecoin administration, but this was not enough for them, and they began to demand to delete everything I wrote, although everything else does not violate their rules!

OK, just indulge me one final time. Let's say they did unlock your account and let you have access to your balances. What would you do from there? I'm genuinely curious -- not interested in fighting anymore.

You present the same stupid facts that present to livecoin. Only an idiot cannot understand that this was said for the sake of trolling. To do this, read all the correspondence from where you got this quote. There scam defender, like you, called me a schoolboy

An idiot, or somebody who doesn't speak Russian, or understand its weird nuances when it comes to humor. you can take your pick.

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July 13, 2019, 08:18:08 AM
 #288

An idiot, or somebody who doesn't speak Russian, or understand its weird nuances when it comes to humor. you can take your pick.
Or who understands and hopes to mislead everyone. Thereby making them idiots

Livecoin.net CКAM, oбвинeниe TУT. Пoддepжaть флaги пpoтив cкaмepoв и нaпиcaть им oтзыв мoжнo TУT. Livecoin is SCAM accusation HERE. Support flags against scammers and write a feedback HERE
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July 13, 2019, 08:20:29 AM
 #289

An idiot, or somebody who doesn't speak Russian, or understand its weird nuances when it comes to humor. you can take your pick.
Or who understands and hopes to mislead everyone. Thereby making them idiots

I think ignoramus is a better word in this instance, but that's just my opinion.

So lets say Livecoin did restore your account, let you have access to your balances. What would be your next move?

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PARTNER of
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|
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PROMOS
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|
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POKER
& CASINO
|
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July 13, 2019, 11:28:51 AM
 #290

Funny that I posted this on same day, only a couple of hours before your post.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5159642.msg51638846#msg51638846

Livecoin instantly blamed Monacoin on their ANN thread for what happened. Seriously they don't have communication with their clients and they have to ask in a forum? Obviously they have but wanted to shift the blame on the developer side.

On another subject, there were quite a few Bitcointalk older members that were promoting this exchange with their signature. Some of them are always accusing people of not doing due diligence before they promote a scam project. I've seen them giving negative trust to people that promote them. Yet quite a few of them promoted Livecoin.

DID YOU DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE? Did you not know what livecoin is? So hypocritical.
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July 13, 2019, 11:39:27 AM
 #291

Funny that I posted this on same day, only a couple of hours before your post

So it was not a coincidence, we got it

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July 13, 2019, 04:23:35 PM
 #292

Funny that I posted this on same day, only a couple of hours before your post

So it was not a coincidence, we got it

No, I didn't mean anything against the op. His post was a personal experience and I read all of it. I had forgotten about Monacoin and Livecoin incident. Otherwise I would have added that too in my post.
I didn't mean it this way. I'm sure the op was aware of the livecoin campaign as well and was mad with them. I'm sure he didn't even notice my post which was just a small argument on their practices and the coins they keep trading.
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July 13, 2019, 04:37:39 PM
Last edit: July 13, 2019, 05:11:46 PM by izooomrud
 #293

So lets say Livecoin did restore your account, let you have access to your balances. What would be your next move?

I'm not a donkey who needs a carrot in front of nose! For now, they need to return my btc and the other coins they are holding hostage to make me delete everything I have said aгbout Mona situation. Next, if they actually don't have Mona coins, they have to clearly explain the situation but not sending me to seek answers from the developer. They should be communicating respectfully, like a professional stock exchange. Let your colleagues from Livecoin know that they need to keep an open dialogue with me.
I bet it will be interesting for you to read what other people say about them in the Russian branch of the forum.

Я pyccким пo бeлoмy (a зaфигoм) пoяcнилa, мoнepy cкpыcил xaкep.
Hy нeyжeли нe пoнятнo?

Aгa, "мыши пoeли..." (c)
..........................

Translate

- I clearly explained in Russian (and why?) that Mona has been stolen by the hacker.
- Don't you get it?

Yeah, "eaten by mice...” (c)

Lady, if a hacker steals 1.0 xmr from you, you may seek for help from the law enforcement or not, it’s your personal choice...

In this case, the client's funds were snitched... There is only one way the exchange does not have to turn to the law enforcement agencies, if they are ready to compensate for personal losses
I'll speak honestly, this exchange only reported to the forkway and the League of sexual reforms but not to the police. Two simple reasons are behind this - - their fear of conduct
standard procedures and audit. The second reason is, of course, the "specifics” of the exchange business in terms of licensing and registration.

NO ONE (except the owners) has any idea of what kind of hole this is, where it came from and how it changes with time.
Most likely this hole appeared on a peak of financial turnovers, when there were plenty of funds. Why would not they take a small part of these funds for the exchange development, costumer attraction, erasing blockchain and resting from all the hard work they have done?
After a while, the market started to fall, the exchange’s financial turnovers went down and their customers started leaving to Binance for example, etc. So, a relatively small hole in balance turns out to be huge in relation to new realities. Everything is so predictable. What will save from the audit? That's right, a fire. Therefore the exchange suffered from hacker attacks several times. There were no appeals to the law enforcement agencies. Legally, there is not or was not any theft. Blocking/suspending of clients' funds is a 100% scam.
The users of this exchange should start thinking about it... We can see that this is the second time when clients suffer from such episodes. Those, who organize attacks on the blockchains are always tied to the main point - the funds withdrawal. As we can see, both times the funds are leaked through this unregulated and unregistered exchange. Need any more comments?
ll tell you more, none of non-regulated exchanges have 100% reserved, because the likelihood of 100% withdrawal of the clients assets is minimal.
Now, if we will see an appearance of a representative with a shady registration (a homeless person, for example), we must be very careful and make sure to check what kind of business they claim and where they were registered.
Only scam exchanges continue to use their clients’ money, after lying to them, and dare to ask the clients to rub their noses in the bullshit (illegal) user agreement.

Livecoin.net CКAM, oбвинeниe TУT. Пoддepжaть флaги пpoтив cкaмepoв и нaпиcaть им oтзыв мoжнo TУT. Livecoin is SCAM accusation HERE. Support flags against scammers and write a feedback HERE
nutildah
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July 14, 2019, 02:44:14 AM
 #294

So lets say Livecoin did restore your account, let you have access to your balances. What would be your next move?

I'm not a donkey who needs a carrot in front of nose! For now, they need to return my btc and the other coins they are holding hostage to make me delete everything I have said aгbout Mona situation. Next, if they actually don't have Mona coins, they have to clearly explain the situation but not sending me to seek answers from the developer. They should be communicating respectfully, like a professional stock exchange. Let your colleagues from Livecoin know that they need to keep an open dialogue with me.

They're clearly well past the point of wanting to keep an open dialogue with you. A week ago I recommended to them via PM that they unlock your account and let you withdrawal your bitcoin, they refused. It seems they think you will not be happy with any solution they had offered you previously.

I bet it will be interesting for you to read what other people say about them in the Russian branch of the forum.

I've read a lot of it. The Russian community seems pretty evenly split on the issue, if not more leaning to the side of Livecoin.

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izooomrud
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July 14, 2019, 06:01:27 AM
 #295

It seems they think you will not be happy with any solution they had offered you previously.
What solution did they offer me earlier?

Livecoin.net CКAM, oбвинeниe TУT. Пoддepжaть флaги пpoтив cкaмepoв и нaпиcaть им oтзыв мoжнo TУT. Livecoin is SCAM accusation HERE. Support flags against scammers and write a feedback HERE
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July 14, 2019, 06:20:22 AM
 #296

It seems they think you will not be happy with any solution they had offered you previously.
What solution did they offer me earlier?

You flooded their customer support with messages before getting locked out of your account. Surely they must have given you some options during that time. You never mentioned what they said in this period, but I would imagine your best option was exchanging the MONA for BTC, and then withdrawing your BTC.

If they reinstated your account, you would still be unhappy about not being able to withdraw the MONA, correct? It seems like they tried their best to explain the situation to you and that wasn't good enough.

The best chances you have of getting your money back now is taking them to court.

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izooomrud
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July 14, 2019, 07:50:20 AM
 #297

It seems they think you will not be happy with any solution they had offered you previously.
What solution did they offer me earlier?

You flooded their customer support with messages before getting locked out of your account. Surely they must have given you some options during that time. You never mentioned what they said in this period, but I would imagine your best option was exchanging the MONA for BTC, and then withdrawing your BTC.

If they reinstated your account, you would still be unhappy about not being able to withdraw the MONA, correct? It seems like they tried their best to explain the situation to you and that wasn't good enough.

The best chances you have of getting your money back now is taking them to court.
I have repeated this many times already, that they did not propose any solutions, all they suggested was to go and solve the problem with the developer on their own. And the rest of the correspondence, I have already shown.

Who should I sue? The site has no official representatives and a registered company.

They just stole my money and are not going to return anything

Livecoin.net CКAM, oбвинeниe TУT. Пoддepжaть флaги пpoтив cкaмepoв и нaпиcaть им oтзыв мoжнo TУT. Livecoin is SCAM accusation HERE. Support flags against scammers and write a feedback HERE
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July 14, 2019, 08:20:30 AM
 #298

Who should I sue? The site has no official representatives and a registered company.

Official representative: Ivona Zlatova, CEO
I can find past registrations for Red Velvet Investments in the Bahamas and Belize

I also found this review but I don't how accurate the information is:

Quote
Livecoin.net is a company officially registered in our country, which is subject to the laws of the Russian Federation. Thus, in its work, the organization adheres to the following principles: ensuring the security of the cryptocurrency trade process, the confidentiality and security of users' personal information, anti-money laundering and fraud support.

Some things you just can't find on the internet. If I were you and I was really serious about this, I would hire a lawyer or some sort of legal aid to help you research the matter. Perhaps you could get a free consultation at a law firm.

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July 14, 2019, 03:12:52 PM
 #299

...I would also like to ask community opinion on the campaign continuing?

we are here not for earn, we are here for discuss about bitcoin & co...

I understood... yahoo62278 is campaigns manager not for his earn. He is here for discuss about bitcoin & co... Sounds interesting! )

...
Obviously, this question is not to OP as he can barely speak comprehensible English

But he lies in English great


Glad to see you like to think I had something to do with Hhampuz closing the campaign. If you're going to talk about me in the local boards at least send me a link so i can dispute your claims.

OP could be a liar but the facts are facts. Livecoin openly admitted to holding the dudes coins. Their ToS is shit. The amount was pennies too which is baffling. You cannot hold a persons account/money hostage until they delete posts or bad publicity. If you don't like my opinion feel free to use that ignore button.

I'm glad that you're glad but I think that you was promoting yourself as "look at me I am honest". In Russian local board nobody needs you because you are no use there.

OP could be a liar but the facts are facts. Livecoin openly admitted to holding the dudes coins. Their ToS is shit. The amount was pennies too which is baffling. You cannot hold a persons account/money hostage until they delete posts or bad publicity. If you don't like my opinion feel free to use that ignore button.

I am also baffing when some person set a bad flag being baffled and not understood what happened.
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July 16, 2019, 10:28:16 AM
Merited by Vadi2323 (1)
 #300

Livecoin announced that MONA will be delisted in two weeks.

Quote
MonaCoin news

Created 16.07.2019 11:51

Dear customers.
Due to the fact, that in May, 15, 2018, MONA asset had been attacked, and its blockchain was compromised. Many customers - holders of the said coins, as well as exchanges, from which MONA coins were stolen completely or partially, suffered considerable losses.
Our Exchange was no exclusion, it was exposed to financial losses, too, because of the attack.
We were the first to contact the developer and point out the problems with blockchain. There has been many publications on this issue, including some major online news websites.
ccn.com
reddit.com
bitexpert.io
cryptor.net
bestinvestpro.com
bloomchain.ru
decenter.org
whattonews.ru
newsbtc.com

You will also find other exchanges' customers requests, addressed to the said asset developers, demanding to solve this problem.
github.com
github.com

In case of damage caused through actions or inactions of developers/owners of the asset, namely, security breach of the blockchain/network, we always seek to claim compensation for losses from the developers, as they bear full responsibility for their product. We have been trying to get compensation from MONA developers for a long time, all without success, they refused to bear responsibility for the damage inflicted on their project. In this connection, we are forced to delist the asset within 2 weeks.
The deposit/withdrawal of this asset is impossible given the lack of MONA coins stolen during the attack on Mona blockchain. The trade will remain opened until the last day.

We are still willing to dialogue with the developers, if you want to get Mona coins for withdrawal, please, contact them, demanding a compensation for MONA network breach. If they make up for the harm caused by hacking of their project, we shall immediately distribute coins, received from the developers, between all customers.
https://www.livecoin.net/en/news/view/261

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