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fillippone (OP)
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Activity: 2324
Merit: 16574
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
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July 26, 2021, 05:57:31 PM |
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<…>
Really interesting read. Thank you for submitting it. I blame my holidays for not being right on the ball. I blame lack of merits for not meriting you!
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
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Activity: 3878
Merit: 11065
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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July 26, 2021, 07:24:14 PM Merited by fillippone (1) |
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Take an interest in GrayScale not for the sake of merit, but for the sake of knowledge in the world of cryptocurrencies. Otherwise, your crypto history will contain nothing but the pursuit of the merit.
Fuck merits!!!!!!! Who needs them? <…>
Really interesting read. Thank you for submitting it. I blame my holidays for not being right on the ball. I blame lack of merits for not meriting you! Don't be this guy!!!!!!! The drunk sailor meriter, and now with no smerits ... hahhahahahahha I know you have a BIG load coming in, but you know what? "Fuck merits. Who needs them?"
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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fillippone (OP)
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2324
Merit: 16574
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
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<..> and funds are returning to GBTC. <…>
How are you stating this? From my spreadsheet all I can see on the primary market is a constant funds outflow (due to management fees) , without any inflow since the beginning of March. Also, in secondary market, premium is still negative. Something that arbitrage activity should help rising toward zero.
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Kiley33
Member
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Activity: 168
Merit: 19
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July 28, 2021, 08:16:59 AM |
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Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
Repurchase is not supported. Once purchased, it cannot be exchanged for digital currency. Because this investor wants to cash out, he can only sell his trust shares through the secondary market. In this way, Grayscale may become one of the largest Bitcoin holders in the market.
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DaRude
Legendary
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Activity: 2901
Merit: 1914
In order to dump coins one must have coins
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July 28, 2021, 06:09:35 PM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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<..> and funds are returning to GBTC. <…>
How are you stating this? From my spreadsheet all I can see on the primary market is a constant funds outflow (due to management fees) , without any inflow since the beginning of March. Also, in secondary market, premium is still negative. Something that arbitrage activity should help rising toward zero. GBTC fund is closed so nothing is going into it. Bottom line shows GBTC premium over secondary. As we can see it's negative (discount) at last data point climbing to around -7%. Top two lines are market price and holdings in $ which is essentially same thing since fund is still closed. This graph is for BTCC Canadian "Purpose Bitcoin ETF" showing price and AUM in CAD$ so once again they're both climbing because BTC is climbing. Nothing new to see here
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"Feeeeed me Roger!" -Bcash
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
Online
Activity: 3878
Merit: 11065
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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July 28, 2021, 06:25:35 PM |
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Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
Repurchase is not supported. Once purchased, it cannot be exchanged for digital currency. Because this investor wants to cash out, he can only sell his trust shares through the secondary market. In this way, Grayscale may become one of the largest Bitcoin holders in the market. I don't disbelieve anything that you are saying here, Kiley33, but really think about the matter, you should be providing a link or describe your source for your above quote. I presume that it is some "official" Grayscale announcement no? In other words, link or it did not happen.
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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Kiley33
Member
Offline
Activity: 168
Merit: 19
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July 29, 2021, 03:18:30 AM |
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Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
Repurchase is not supported. Once purchased, it cannot be exchanged for digital currency. Because this investor wants to cash out, he can only sell his trust shares through the secondary market. In this way, Grayscale may become one of the largest Bitcoin holders in the market. I don't disbelieve anything that you are saying here, Kiley33, but really think about the matter, you should be providing a link or describe your source for your above quote. I presume that it is some "official" Grayscale announcement no? In other words, link or it did not happen. Take Bitcoin as an example: investors can only exchange BTC for GBTC, not GBTC for BTC. If investors want to sell GBTC, they can only go through the secondary market, so his mechanism will make his position bigger and bigger. Moreover, the Grayscale management fee is deducted from the encrypted currency held by Grayscale, because Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not clearly indicate the trust period, which means that the coins held by the trust will slowly be transferred to Grayscale hands. I only learned it recently. If my point of view is wrong, I still need my help to point it out, thank you.
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
Online
Activity: 3878
Merit: 11065
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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July 29, 2021, 04:07:18 AM |
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Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
Repurchase is not supported. Once purchased, it cannot be exchanged for digital currency. Because this investor wants to cash out, he can only sell his trust shares through the secondary market. In this way, Grayscale may become one of the largest Bitcoin holders in the market. I don't disbelieve anything that you are saying here, Kiley33, but really think about the matter, you should be providing a link or describe your source for your above quote. I presume that it is some "official" Grayscale announcement no? In other words, link or it did not happen. Take Bitcoin as an example: investors can only exchange BTC for GBTC, not GBTC for BTC. If investors want to sell GBTC, they can only go through the secondary market, so his mechanism will make his position bigger and bigger. Moreover, the Grayscale management fee is deducted from the encrypted currency held by Grayscale, because Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not clearly indicate the trust period, which means that the coins held by the trust will slowly be transferred to Grayscale hands. I only learned it recently. If my point of view is wrong, I still need my help to point it out, thank you. I am not questioning your opinion... I am asking you to provide a link to the quote that you provided in your earlier post.. If you quote something in your post, then you should provide a source in order that forum members know from where you got your quote. Do you have a link for that quote?
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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Kiley33
Member
Offline
Activity: 168
Merit: 19
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July 29, 2021, 06:12:49 AM |
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Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
Repurchase is not supported. Once purchased, it cannot be exchanged for digital currency. Because this investor wants to cash out, he can only sell his trust shares through the secondary market. In this way, Grayscale may become one of the largest Bitcoin holders in the market. I don't disbelieve anything that you are saying here, Kiley33, but really think about the matter, you should be providing a link or describe your source for your above quote. I presume that it is some "official" Grayscale announcement no? In other words, link or it did not happen. Take Bitcoin as an example: investors can only exchange BTC for GBTC, not GBTC for BTC. If investors want to sell GBTC, they can only go through the secondary market, so his mechanism will make his position bigger and bigger. Moreover, the Grayscale management fee is deducted from the encrypted currency held by Grayscale, because Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not clearly indicate the trust period, which means that the coins held by the trust will slowly be transferred to Grayscale hands. I only learned it recently. If my point of view is wrong, I still need my help to point it out, thank you. I am not questioning your opinion... I am asking you to provide a link to the quote that you provided in your earlier post.. If you quote something in your post, then you should provide a source in order that forum members know from where you got your quote. Do you have a link for that quote? Can take a look at this https://studio.glassnode.com/metrics?a=BTC&category=Institutions&m=institutions.PurposeEtfHoldingsSum
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
Online
Activity: 3878
Merit: 11065
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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July 29, 2021, 06:29:23 AM |
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Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
Repurchase is not supported. Once purchased, it cannot be exchanged for digital currency. Because this investor wants to cash out, he can only sell his trust shares through the secondary market. In this way, Grayscale may become one of the largest Bitcoin holders in the market. I don't disbelieve anything that you are saying here, Kiley33, but really think about the matter, you should be providing a link or describe your source for your above quote. I presume that it is some "official" Grayscale announcement no? In other words, link or it did not happen. Take Bitcoin as an example: investors can only exchange BTC for GBTC, not GBTC for BTC. If investors want to sell GBTC, they can only go through the secondary market, so his mechanism will make his position bigger and bigger. Moreover, the Grayscale management fee is deducted from the encrypted currency held by Grayscale, because Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not clearly indicate the trust period, which means that the coins held by the trust will slowly be transferred to Grayscale hands. I only learned it recently. If my point of view is wrong, I still need my help to point it out, thank you. I am not questioning your opinion... I am asking you to provide a link to the quote that you provided in your earlier post.. If you quote something in your post, then you should provide a source in order that forum members know from where you got your quote. Do you have a link for that quote? Can take a look at this https://studio.glassnode.com/metrics?a=BTC&category=Institutions&m=institutions.PurposeEtfHoldingsSumThat is not what I am asking. I am asking from where you got this quote: >>>>>>>>>> Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
<<<<<<<<<< Do you have a link for the quote source?
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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Kiley33
Member
Offline
Activity: 168
Merit: 19
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July 29, 2021, 06:51:53 AM |
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Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
Repurchase is not supported. Once purchased, it cannot be exchanged for digital currency. Because this investor wants to cash out, he can only sell his trust shares through the secondary market. In this way, Grayscale may become one of the largest Bitcoin holders in the market. I don't disbelieve anything that you are saying here, Kiley33, but really think about the matter, you should be providing a link or describe your source for your above quote. I presume that it is some "official" Grayscale announcement no? In other words, link or it did not happen. Take Bitcoin as an example: investors can only exchange BTC for GBTC, not GBTC for BTC. If investors want to sell GBTC, they can only go through the secondary market, so his mechanism will make his position bigger and bigger. Moreover, the Grayscale management fee is deducted from the encrypted currency held by Grayscale, because Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not clearly indicate the trust period, which means that the coins held by the trust will slowly be transferred to Grayscale hands. I only learned it recently. If my point of view is wrong, I still need my help to point it out, thank you. I am not questioning your opinion... I am asking you to provide a link to the quote that you provided in your earlier post.. If you quote something in your post, then you should provide a source in order that forum members know from where you got your quote. Do you have a link for that quote? Can take a look at this https://studio.glassnode.com/metrics?a=BTC&category=Institutions&m=institutions.PurposeEtfHoldingsSumThat is not what I am asking. I am asking from where you got this quote: >>>>>>>>>> Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
<<<<<<<<<< Do you have a link for the quote source? Oh,,, sorry, I misunderstood what you meant, OP posted it. What I later merged were charts and comments. You can view the first page of OP's post.
So, while each share has a "bitcoin per share" equivalent, the NAV is the US Dollar equivalent of this measure.
As per SEC regulations, The Shares are not freely Transferable. We read on the termsheet, and on the fine print we discover that:
Quote Eligible for resale in accordance with Rule 144 under the Securities Act after a one-year holding period. Pursuant to Rule 144, once the Product has been subject to the reporting requirements of Section 13 under the Exchange Act for a period of 90 days, the minimum holding period will be shortened from one year to six months. We cannot assure you that a secondary market will develop.
So the subscriber of such shares exposes herself to a 6 months holding window. At the end of this window she will be free to sell the shares in the open market. Provided that there is one, as Grayscale is not involved in such.
Also, Grayscale is not accepting those shares back, as buyback agreement are not guaranteed:
Quote Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program.
So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
This is released by OP.
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DaRude
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2901
Merit: 1914
In order to dump coins one must have coins
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July 29, 2021, 05:46:08 PM |
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... That is not what I am asking. I am asking from where you got this quote: >>>>>>>>>> Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
<<<<<<<<<< Do you have a link for the quote source? There's nothing outlandish in that quote. It's almost entirely taken from their main site Grayscale® Bitcoin Trust is currently unavailable Grayscale® Bitcoin Trust private placement is offered on a periodic basis throughout the year and is currently closed. ... Because each Product does not currently operate a redemption program, there can be no assurance that the value of such Product’s shares will reflect the value of the assets held by such Product, less such Product’s expenses and other liabilities, and the shares of such Product, if traded on any secondary market, may trade at a substantial premium over, or a substantial discount to, the value of the assets held by such Product, less such Product’s expenses and other liabilities, and such Product may be unable to meet its investment objective. https://grayscale.com/products/grayscale-bitcoin-trust/
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"Feeeeed me Roger!" -Bcash
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
Online
Activity: 3878
Merit: 11065
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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July 29, 2021, 05:56:56 PM Merited by fillippone (1) |
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... That is not what I am asking. I am asking from where you got this quote: >>>>>>>>>> Grayscale Bitcoin Trust does not currently operate a redemption program and may halt creations from time to time. There can be no assurance that the value of the shares will approximate the value of the Bitcoin held by the Trust and the shares may trade at a substantial premium over or discount to the value of the Trust's Bitcoin. The Trust may, but will not be required to, seek regulatory approval to operate a redemption program. So, when you invest in Grayscale shares, you are actually locked into that, and the only way to get rid of those is on the secondary market, after a minimum of six months.
<<<<<<<<<< Do you have a link for the quote source? There's nothing outlandish in that quote. It's almost entirely taken from their main site Grayscale® Bitcoin Trust is currently unavailable Grayscale® Bitcoin Trust private placement is offered on a periodic basis throughout the year and is currently closed. ... Because each Product does not currently operate a redemption program, there can be no assurance that the value of such Product’s shares will reflect the value of the assets held by such Product, less such Product’s expenses and other liabilities, and the shares of such Product, if traded on any secondary market, may trade at a substantial premium over, or a substantial discount to, the value of the assets held by such Product, less such Product’s expenses and other liabilities, and such Product may be unable to meet its investment objective. https://grayscale.com/products/grayscale-bitcoin-trust/I was ONLY asking for the source of the quote. I was not even questioning the content or the assertions contained therein... Any member/poster should be providing links or at least saying from where s/he got his quotes... it is just way less confusing rather than any of us having to attempt to search or figure out (the potential puzzle) from where is the quote coming... this ended up being pretty straight forward, from OP, but I had to ask like three times...and no one should even need to ask about these kinds of posting 101 basics, no?
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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Daltonik
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2604
Merit: 1504
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July 31, 2021, 06:39:25 AM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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The company Wealthfront with assets of $25 billion announced the expansion of the range of services offered, opening customers access to cryptocurrency funds from Grayscale Investments, which includes two cryptocurrency trusts Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) and Grayscale Ethereum Trust (ETHE). https://blog.wealthfront.com/cryptocurrency-exposure-at-wealthfront/
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oHnK
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July 31, 2021, 03:27:44 PM Merited by fillippone (2) |
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I don't think the decline in GBTC will have a significant effect on the market because even if it is sold by investors, what they sell is the grayscale stock itself and even if there is volatility in the crypto market it is only the speculators themselves in creating issues over the unlocking of GBTC. We all know that Grayscale has its own competitor such as ETF BTC and we know GBTC is more expensive than BTC.
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