Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)

[NanoAkron]

Thanks for the summary Herp. Factual and without any conjecture.

Here's a bit of conjecture for you, for what it's worth:

NEOBEE is experiencing the natural kickback one would expect when trying to revolutionise an entrenched banking sector on a financially distraught island. Danny is back in the UK visiting the family and having some downtime before getting straight back to work.

Anyone who runs around screaming 'the sky is falling' and 'we all deserve answers' is either a very immature investor, a very immature person, or both.

One thing that does concern me though is quite how much power certain actors in the bitcoin world have over the finances of the rest of us - Karpeles with GOX, MP with Havelock.

My take on MP - he's got a load of BTC from the early days and hates seeing Havelock succeed. So he's bought in to every decent stock on there to the tune of hundreds or thousands of BTC, and will use his leverage to crash anything that looks like it's going to succeed. I don't know his motivations, but I can bet you that's part of his strategy.

And why isn't anyone crowing about CFIG? They've not posted anything for months, but they're still sitting there with 17,000 BTC and nobody's running around screaming that they 'deserve answers'.

[Herp]

Thanks for the summary Herp. Factual and without any conjecture.

Here's a bit of conjecture for you, for what it's worth:

NEOBEE is experiencing the natural kickback one would expect when trying to revolutionise an entrenched banking sector on a financially distraught island. Danny is back in the UK visiting the family and having some downtime before getting straight back to work.

Anyone who runs around screaming 'the sky is falling' and 'we all deserve answers' is either a very immature investor, a very immature person, or both.

One thing that does concern me though is quite how much power certain actors in the bitcoin world have over the finances of the rest of us - Karpeles with GOX, MP with Havelock.

My take on MP - he's got a load of BTC from the early days and hates seeing Havelock succeed. So he's bought in to every decent stock on there to the tune of hundreds or thousands of BTC, and will use his leverage to crash anything that looks like it's going to succeed. I don't know his motivations, but I can bet you that's part of his strategy.

And why isn't anyone crowing about CFIG? They've not posted anything for months, but they're still sitting there with 17,000 BTC and nobody's running around screaming that they 'deserve answers'.

Refreshing to see a mature take on things.

You're so right about immaturity of the average Bitcoin investor. Many are geeks not used to investing on regular stock exchanges, totally unaware of how reporting is done and how news are communicated nor are they aware about the usual hardships a fledgling business like Neo has to face. The trials and tribulations that any new company has to go through to reach its potential is something unknown to many of the investors here. Neo is also operating in a paradigm shift sector where pressure from entrenched interests is high.

This is what basically happened with all this disinformation and mud-slicking. Cyprus central bank and their lobby had their way in round one of the fight. MPEx sharks smelled blood and moved in for the kill to wipe out the competition at a critical moment, using "kick 'em while they're down" strategy. Very evil and despicable of MPEx

Even if worst case scenario unfolds and Neo doesn't manage to operate their branch according to plan, I can at least say I was part of something great. Neo managed to change the world, to raise awareness about Bitcoin and turn a country who never heard of Bitcoin before into a country where everyone's talking about it. Worst case scenario I've donated money to a very worthy cause. Everyone who invested in Neo should be proud of it.

On the other side we have this jealous egocentric MP who can't stand seeing others being more successful than him, a bitter and sad little man, paying monthly wage to an employee to constantly bash his competitors. In a ironic twist of events, we'll most likely see him facing charges and follow same path other exchanges he tried to wipe out did http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/21xrov/mpex_owner_getting_letters_from_us_gov_in_danger/ . His disgusting attacks on Burnside come to mind, one of the most honest Bitcoin business operators.

It's up to all of us shareholders to fight and make Neo succeed. We can either give in, create a self-fulfilling prophecy and abandon Danny and the guys in their hour of need or we can stand together to fight these disgusting psychopaths.

It's your choice.

[waveofuture]

^ Hear ye.

There is a long history of ingrained thought and behaviour in the current system. It's going to take a steady mind and hand when talking and dealing with people distrustful of bitcoin - that's ok! Heck, it's preferable in some senses.

Neo's leadership may possibly need this break of sorts. They can take a long deep breath, meditate, think of family, and unequivocally know there to be a genuine populace wholly supportive and excited to assist in this endeavor and vision. 

[uhoh]

Must admit, not particularly worried at present , but it would take a matter of minutes for Danny to set the record straight and he hasn't bothered. This is pretty shitty regardless of how you look at it. I've got a fair chunk of money invested in these guys, all I want in return is some communication (whether it's good or awful). Freezing trading with no upfront dialogue between Neo and their shareholders is, frankly, unforgivable.

EDIT:

And why isn't anyone crowing about CFIG? They've not posted anything for months, but they're still sitting there with 17,000 BTC and nobody's running around screaming that they 'deserve answers'.

CFIG is still trading, that's why.

[NanoAkron]

They're still trading because they haven't done anything in the real world yet so as to be subject to a wave of criticism and negativity, combined with stock pump & dumps.

Neo stopped trading because of suspicious trades. They're working to resolve the issue.

[uhoh]

They're still trading because they haven't done anything in the real world yet so as to be subject to a wave of criticism and negativity, combined with stock pump & dumps.

Neo stopped trading because of suspicious trades. They're working to resolve the issue.

I'm sure they are .. but 2 minutes out of the day to reassure shareholders and take the media off a brand-damaging hunt is not much to ask

[Herp]

@uhoh

We've heard from Danny on Monday. Let's give it few more days at least for more updates. Danny is working to come before us with something concrete, like a resolution and a plan to move things forward. He said as much in his Monday statement. Let's give the guy a breather and a few days to work things out.

We can be passive and moan about it, give more ammo to competitor paid shills, fall into their traps or try to be proactive and help out as much as we can. I'm personally not much of a fan of the lazy distant type of investor, who sits on his ass waiting for the paycheck to come. We can all get involved to help Neo grow, each one of us can contribute to the efforts. If not by actually promoting it and helping out in a direct way, we should at least keep our emo fits and tantrums in check.

Be sure that if Danny doesn't come forward with specific statements, he has good reasons for it and many of these are in the best interest of shareholders. I can mention a few in PMs if you want.

[uhoh]

@uhoh

We've heard from Danny on Monday. Let's give it few more days at least for more updates. Danny is working to come before us with something concrete, like a resolution and a plan to move things forward. He said as much in his Monday statement. Let's give the guy a breather and a few days to work things out.

We can be passive and moan about it, give more ammo to competitor paid shills, fall into their traps or try to be proactive and help out as much as we can. I'm personally not much of a fan of the lazy distant type of investor, who sits on his ass waiting for the paycheck to come. We can all get involved to help Neo grow, each one of us can contribute to the efforts. If not by actually promoting it and helping out in a direct way, we should at least keep our emo fits and tantrums in check.

Be sure that if Danny doesn't come forward with specific statements, he has good reasons for it and many of these are in the best interest of shareholders. I can mention a few in PMs if you want.

Cheers Herp

I've not been following this much since the trade freeze if i'm honest.

I want them to succeed as much as anyone. I thought their ad campaign was fantastic, I just don't like to see it completely negated by the media picking up on this story of Danny's 'disappearance' (which they have). The only point i'm making is that this undoing of all the good they've done so far is completely unnecessary. As much as they are working on a solution and working hard (and I don't deny for a second that they are) it's all going to be in vain if they maintain their silence.

[waveofuture]

Must admit, not particularly worried at present , but it would take a matter of minutes for Danny to set the record straight and he hasn't bothered. This is pretty shitty regardless of how you look at it. I've got a fair chunk of money invested in these guys, all I want in return is some communication (whether it's good or awful). Freezing trading with no upfront dialogue between Neo and their shareholders is, frankly, unforgivable.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. It's difficult to understand what's happening and a little [more] communication would go a long way. Though, I have to disagree in characterizing the incommunicado-ness as "unforgivable," as there are numerous factors we aren't considering or privy to.

Something I didn't state but have considered is it maybe something as sime as inking a deal.
...
Regulatory seems logical due to the context of the discussions taking place last week.

This would be nice. We can hope for the best.

[spinoff]

I agree that with five minutes of his time Danny could clear up a lot of things, but we've seen it in the past, he tends to not communicate bad news, which is very stupid IMHO. so I'm supposing there's indeed some bad news, maybe not a show stopper, but we'll only get very fuzzy details

[thekekk]

Finaly Danny back and closed the spam thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg6030319#msg6030319

So this thread has gotten out of hand and will be locked following this post.

My recent silence has been forced due to the actions of two people, one of which has been posting on here thinking they know me and have the inside knowledge about my life which is largely false and they really should obtain some better sources, however those posts had much wider ramifications than they probably assumed they would have, so I hold them partially responsible for what has occurred since their posts.

I left Cyprus on a short term temporary basis for reasons that will follow, I haven't shipped anything from Cyprus and I certainly haven't run away with company or peoples money or bitcoins. Following those posts on the forum, I received direct threats targeted directly at my daughter, they have been reported to the relevant authorities, Once those threats were made I took the advice to remain outside of Cyprus and remove contact with anyone that could be responsible for the threats, this included not speaking with members of staff that could be responsible.

My reasons for leaving was to raise additional capital for the business through the sale of my equity as we had run out of liquidity, I had exhausted all of my own liquidity too through directors loans to the company. Every single Bitcoin raised and spent is accounted for, any claims of embezzlement are nothing but empty claims with no foundation. There were coins lost in BitFunder/WeExchange which I personally covered and assumed that debt of 1420BTC to ensure the company could continue unaffected, UKYO also owes me an additional 260BTC separately from the 1420BTC. I also have 369.8BTC of my own Bitcoin stuck with MtGox that would have been given to the company to settle all creditors and continue operations whilst more capital was raised. Having funds on MtGox was a personal risk that I assumed and no company funds were ever held on there.

My original plan was to raise more capital to allow the company to achieve its potential through the sale of some of my equity. The moment threats were made towards my daughter this plan changed and I decided I would sell all of my equity, allowing the new owner to appoint a new CEO.

The whole process will be completed and handled through an agency that specializes in these matters, once the final details are completed, the agency details will be made available to interested parties who wish to purchase 100% of my equity in LMB Subsidiaries Ltd thus taking full control of all subsidiaries. I shall also be providing the new owner full rights over the Bitcoin debts currently owed by BitFunder/WeExchange as I know people are working on a solution to recovering those debts for everyone that has funds stuck there. This process will also write off all directors loans I have made to the company and I shall not receive any financial compensation through this sale process.

My biggest mistake was using BitFunder/WeExchange during the initial stages of fund raising, had I not had to cover those losses my pockets would have been deep enough to cover all creditors and OPEX for the foreseeable future allowing the company to achieve a positive cash flow during that period, the choice was one made by myself and for that I am responsible for that decision. I am working towards having this entire process completed within a short period of time to enable the business to recover, to ensure that those invested do not lose out following this process.

I apologize for my silence but I would like to reiterate that ZERO customer funds are under my control and none have been lost or used for business purposes. My decisions are based on what I deem to be the best option for my family.

[creekbore]

Finaly Danny back and closed the spam thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg6030319#msg6030319

So this thread has gotten out of hand and will be locked following this post.

My recent silence has been forced due to the actions of two people, one of which has been posting on here thinking they know me and have the inside knowledge about my life which is largely false and they really should obtain some better sources, however those posts had much wider ramifications than they probably assumed they would have, so I hold them partially responsible for what has occurred since their posts.

I left Cyprus on a short term temporary basis for reasons that will follow, I haven't shipped anything from Cyprus and I certainly haven't run away with company or peoples money or bitcoins. Following those posts on the forum, I received direct threats targeted directly at my daughter, they have been reported to the relevant authorities, Once those threats were made I took the advice to remain outside of Cyprus and remove contact with anyone that could be responsible for the threats, this included not speaking with members of staff that could be responsible.

My reasons for leaving was to raise additional capital for the business through the sale of my equity as we had run out of liquidity, I had exhausted all of my own liquidity too through directors loans to the company. Every single Bitcoin raised and spent is accounted for, any claims of embezzlement are nothing but empty claims with no foundation. There were coins lost in BitFunder/WeExchange which I personally covered and assumed that debt of 1420BTC to ensure the company could continue unaffected, UKYO also owes me an additional 260BTC separately from the 1420BTC. I also have 369.8BTC of my own Bitcoin stuck with MtGox that would have been given to the company to settle all creditors and continue operations whilst more capital was raised. Having funds on MtGox was a personal risk that I assumed and no company funds were ever held on there.

My original plan was to raise more capital to allow the company to achieve its potential through the sale of some of my equity. The moment threats were made towards my daughter this plan changed and I decided I would sell all of my equity, allowing the new owner to appoint a new CEO.

The whole process will be completed and handled through an agency that specializes in these matters, once the final details are completed, the agency details will be made available to interested parties who wish to purchase 100% of my equity in LMB Subsidiaries Ltd thus taking full control of all subsidiaries. I shall also be providing the new owner full rights over the Bitcoin debts currently owed by BitFunder/WeExchange as I know people are working on a solution to recovering those debts for everyone that has funds stuck there. This process will also write off all directors loans I have made to the company and I shall not receive any financial compensation through this sale process.

My biggest mistake was using BitFunder/WeExchange during the initial stages of fund raising, had I not had to cover those losses my pockets would have been deep enough to cover all creditors and OPEX for the foreseeable future allowing the company to achieve a positive cash flow during that period, the choice was one made by myself and for that I am responsible for that decision. I am working towards having this entire process completed within a short period of time to enable the business to recover, to ensure that those invested do not lose out following this process.

I apologize for my silence but I would like to reiterate that ZERO customer funds are under my control and none have been lost or used for business purposes. My decisions are based on what I deem to be the best option for my family.

Wow...just wow.

[ex-trader]

Just read that.

Firstly, respect to Danny for posting an update and I agree that it is utterly wrong and inappropriate that his family has been dragged into this.

However, it now seems I and some others have been right all along. The money has been spent and lost and there is nothing left.

Sadly all the money has been spent on nothing more than raising the awareness of Neo/Bitcoin in Cyprus, which will now be more than offset by the bad publicity for both that the insolvency of Neo will bring. I highly doubt that anyone would wish to buy or launch a Bitcoin bank again in Cyprus, now that the only well-known one has proven all the risks and gone bust.

What a mess. I'm genuinely sorry and sad for all those involved, staff and investors and for the futher negativity it will bring to the world of Bitcoin.

[San1ty]

So... Is it all over? I guess the damage is irrecoverable?

[creekbore]

I seriously worry if anyone here can actually read.

LMB and its subsidiaries (NeoBee) are being sold and a new CEO appointed (I imagine Danny has had enough of this bullshit).

[San1ty]

Isn't he saying he is in the process of finding a buyer? What if he can't find any takers?

[creekbore]

Isn't he saying he is in the process of finding a buyer? What if he can't find any takers?

A more sensible question...who knows.

I imagine the securities on HAvelock are going to be frozen until there is an outcome.
Who knows.

I posted a link to this on the 'wall observer' thread...the level of ignorance on there about whats happening in the BTC-space is just incredible.

[Fabrizio89]

I'm curoius what image will the university and the other merchants that accepted to work with them get out from this.

[michaelGedi]

So... Is it all over? I guess the damage is irrecoverable?

you can only speculate... considering that already some companies were interested in buying the franchise rights to take it to an international level, and the level of interest generated during it's opening, I think there will be some takers. The question is whether or not a transition is actually logistically possible considering Danny has spearheaded this thing from the very beginning... But you have to think about this from Danny's perspective. He will take any offer at this time so it is bound to sell to at least SOMEONE. What they will do with it thought is another matter.

I've been speculating for some time, but didn't want to spread FUD for no reason, whether or not Russian organised crime had anything to do with this... especially considering their known link with Cyprus banks. Now that we know a major factor is a threat towards his daughter, it becomes more likely. That said, it could just be another one of those angry, greedy, keyboard bashing sociopaths who just got scared of losing their bitcoins and decided to "reach out".

[NotLambchop]

This is why we can't have nice things.
Thanks.