Lightning Network Observer

[DooMAD]

i know you lemmings want to pretend LN is bitcoin2.0 

Source a direct quote or stop lying.  Pick one.  You can't just keep making things up and expecting people to believe it.

But I will say that LN is better than the failed forkcoins you want to copy.  Scaling is not, nor has it ever been, the "dOuBlE fAsTeR" nonsense you support.  It hasn't worked for BCH.  It hasn't worked for BSV.  It wouldn't work for you even if anyone else was stupid enough to go along with it.  Every time blocks are approaching full, you'll be right back to the only idea rattling around in your skull.  "Raise it again".  It's the sole extent to what your limited cognition can muster.

start from scratch with a new service

And which service would that be, exactly? 

[1714165733]

1714165733

[1714165733]

1714165733

[1714165733]

1714165733

[1714165733]

1714165733

[1714165733]

1714165733

[majeed]

I have recently stumbled in a few tweets regarding the Lightning Network.

I am always been a LN fan, and I have a long history of reporting on various metrics, and I would like to start again.

First, an overview of the network so far:



The brown has been exponential, considering also that BTC has increased in value.

Looking at the LN capacity we see that much of the grow has been registered on the last few weeks. Growth has gone parabolic:



If we look at the following graph we have a detail on the balances added during the last months:



Of course, adding 250 BTC of capacity when BTC is at 30k is totally a different story than adding 300 BTC capacity when BTCUSD trades at 8,000 as in March 2019.

So, pretty a neat increase in capacity. Just wondering if the real usage of such capacity is gaining traction. I guess the “low” fees in the main chain are not pushing adoption, but it’s important to invest in this invisible assets.

I will try do add news, reports and commentaries about LN to this thread as soon as they are available or worth mentioning.
Glad if you help!



Resources on Lighting Network:

Bitcointalks Threads:

• The Lightning Network FAQ
• Basics of the Lightning Network
• Lightning Network -- Basics (documents, data pages, files, plots) by tranthidung

Dashboards:

• txstats.com
• BitcoinVisuals.com

It's a no-brainer that economic might is the engine that drives individuals, organizations, industries, churches, governments, and nations. I mean, who doesn't like money, am I right? Sure, political power is important, but let's be real, it ain't gonna cut it without a booming economy to support it. Governments better wise up and realize that a strong economy is the foundation for everything in life.

It ain't just about the cash, ya hear? While a strong economy can be a foundation for success, we gotta keep our eyes open to the downsides. Too much dough can lead to inequality and exploitation. We gotta balance the economic growth with our social responsibilities.

let me drop some truth bombs on ya. To make some serious progress and get ahead, we need to have some serious bankroll. And not just some pocket change, I'm talking real economic power, yo. By having our economic situation under control and respectable, we can make sure our hard work pays off but also be cautious of its potential negative effects.

[cygan]

https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1645070840210284546
https://beincrypto.com/coinbase-will-integrate-bitcoin-lightning-network/

[franky1]

Bitcoin is the TCP/IP of money:

https://medium.com/@samikkurty/is-the-bitcoin-protocol-similar-to-tcp-ip-a6127f08f893
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1dd3uv/paul_buchheit_inventor_of_gmail_tweets_how/

Most people don't get it... even some old "BTC maxis" (well, you sound more like a shitcoiner when you mention MySpace, because shitcoiners think BTC is like MySpace and will be supplanted by alts).

TCP/IP is the foundation of the internet and Tik Tok is an app (Layer 7 on OSI model) that runs on top of it.

What's so hard to understand about the layered approach in IT?

Claiming BTC/LN is not very user-friendly currently is like claiming internet wasn't very user-friendly back in 1991. This argument doesn't hold any water.

funny thing is that its people like you and doomads and her forum-bros that are always telling people to not use bitcoin and use other networks that have other units of value measure.. so that makes you lot the shitcoiners.

YOU lot are claiming BTC is shit hense why YOU lot want people to migrate over to LN

bitcoin is not the myspace. LN is myspace

and as for the whole comparing LN to the internet in 1991.. nope. bitcoin even from day one was able to install and make transactions without headaches. then LN came around 9 years later and caused issues, making fake promises requiring main net delays due to waiting for LN promises to flourish..  and 6 years after LN has been around, LN is still causing issues.

LN has had 6 years to try to improve itself and yet if you OBSERVE your own recruits in this very topic many are saying how crap the UI is and how hard it is to install or migrate between wallets.

if you are a dev and someone told you your software for the last 6 years has been crap and your only response is "wait more years becasue you need to think of the software as something from the early 90's so be patient for a decade"

you are not thinking about whats actually being told to you. you are just trying to be a carpet sweeping ignorant person

get the hint other networks that lock-bridge btc value are more successful than LN. those networks are only a couple years old compared to LN of 6 years. and yet you want to keep pretending that LN is cool and successful.. get the hint already. and stop using your dev groups fake promises of helping bitcoin. when all its doing is delaying bitcoin network evolution

[DooMAD]

YOU lot are claiming BTC is shit

Also franky1:

bitcoin is slacking behind.

my opinion is that bitcoin has alot of potential, but that is currently stifled

bitcoin is hindered

Backwards as usual.

[franky1]

but i explain that its being held back by idiots that prefer to promote other networks as the solution instead of concentrating on bitcoin

you lot like the bloat being added to bitcoin you like the fee's rising you lot like to tell people to stop being full nodes. stop offering IBD support to other peers. you want junk added to bitcoin and users to use other networks for payments

YOU LOT ARE THE BITCOIN HATERS

i simply hate the DEVELOPERS that want commercialised services to replace bitcoin, the same developers who are stifling bitcoin to achieve it

YOU lot want to promote that bitcoin is not fit for purpose and cant reach mass adoption

[DooMAD]

i simply hate the DEVELOPERS that want commercialised services to replace bitcoin

Well it's a good thing that no one is "replacing" anything, then.  Please stop being so precious and petty.  Lightning is there to supplement and support Bitcoin.  It's an optional extra.  People can use it if they want, but no one is forcing them to (much like all the other things you appear to hate about Bitcoin).  You can keep hating, but devs are going to keep coding.  And that's why they're going to achieve great things and you're not. 

Most people appreciate being given a choice.  Maybe one of these days you'll explain what traumatic event you suffered that caused you to be so overtly hostile to freedom of choice.  I assure you. normal people don't act like this.  Seek counselling or something.  You need help.

[franky1]

doomad your the idiot that wants to take choices away.

you want people to stop using bitcoin
you love the fees going up thus forcing peoples hands
you love the dust limits and other things that mean people cant just buy small priced items using bitcoin

heck you even love the consensus being softened so that people have no choice thus to let crap happen on the network.

oh and if people do want to ask for practical features.. you are the first to tell them to F-OFF and go play with that option on another network

you are not a supporter of a decentralised network of unity and consensus approach
you are a supporter of chaos and central control.
and as long as it brings you greedy profits at the cost of other people you dont care about other people being pushed into things that make you profit

like the services you promote so much. that DO harm others.

its funny that you think that someone needs to be traumatised to spot idiots and spot scammers and spot systems that dont work.. to then have the ability to call them out

is it because you never realised you are caught in a scam until you got kicked in the head. and you only dared call out on your scammer brotherin after they hospitalised you, or something?
are you scared to tell the truth out of fear of being traumatised?? is that it. are you afraid to go against things becasue you fear being hurt?

is this why you are not realising your advertising crap broke stuff like LN and mixers. because you have yet to be kicked in the head for your morals to be triggered enough to stop?
is it trauma that you think is the only way that you will stop?

here is a lesson.. outside of your echo chamber buddy group.. billions of other people dont need trauma to assess risks and decide to avoid things.
but for you, i think the previous kicks to the head may explain your mindset of why you toe a echo chamber line of promoting risky crap that makes other people lose value and your afraid to call out the risks. you would rather remain in stockholm syndrome, kissing the ass of your abusers

[Wakate]

Well it's a good thing that no one is "replacing" anything, then.  Please stop being so precious and petty.  Lightning is there to supplement and support Bitcoin.  It's an optional extra.  People can use it if they want, but no one is forcing them to (much like all the other things you appear to hate about Bitcoin).  

The lightening network is aimed at resolving the mere issues we do face when transacting on the Bitcoin Blockchain. Normally the Bitcoin network was created to handle smaller transactions which had been a problem enlongating the time for it to be confirmed.
Sometimes I would have to wait up to 10 to 15 minutes on average for transaction confirmation using high network fee. The lightening network had been helping people to spend lesser fee with fast speed. We all have the opinion to decide on the one that fit our skin colour. Lightening network has it own flaws too hoping it would be resolved.

Most people appreciate being given a choice.  Maybe one of these days you'll explain what traumatic event you suffered that caused you to be so overtly hostile to freedom of choice.

We have the choice to go for either the lightening network or transaction on the normal Bitcoin level. I think Franky1 argument is based on people shifting from the normal Bitcoin transaction which could be expensive and slower to the lightening network. It is obvious that majority of Bitcoin users would still prefer the normal Bitcoin transaction compared to lightening network because of it complexity and the problems  attached to using lightening network.

[franky1]

Well it's a good thing that no one is "replacing" anything, then.  Please stop being so precious and petty.  Lightning is there to supplement and support Bitcoin.  It's an optional extra.  People can use it if they want, but no one is forcing them to (much like all the other things you appear to hate about Bitcoin).  

The lightening network is aimed at resolving the mere issues we do face when transacting on the Bitcoin Blockchain. Normally the Bitcoin network was created to handle smaller transactions which had been a problem enlongating the time for it to be confirmed.
Sometimes I would have to wait up to 10 to 15 minutes on average for transaction confirmation using high network fee. The lightening network had been helping people to spend lesser fee with fast speed. We all have the opinion to decide on the one that fit our skin colour. Lightening network has it own flaws too hoping it would be resolved.

what you dont realise about doomad is
a. he advocates bitcoin fees should go higher
b. he advocates that bitcoin should not expand to allow more transactions per block

he does not want more people using bitcoin

he wants people to use LN instead because thats where he hopes to get rich. by charging people fee's for routing through him

as a side note he kisses ass of schemes that have flaws becasue he is a penny scraper. hoping if he kisses ass enough he will be seen as loyal and be offered a job with them(not formally because that means he will lose his disability benefits) so he wants unofficial jobs 'under the table'

he things anyone against greed must have suffered trauma..
reality is i am independently wealthy to not need to scheme and scam and recruit idiots . i dont need to kiss ass. i dont need to penny scrape with sig campaigns

i could understand it if doomad was just poor and was just looking for a job. but he goes to the extremes of only promoting scammy things designed to cut people away from their value.
he chooses to suck up to things that dont help the community enmasse, he just promotes things meant to screw with people for profits and side deals/back handers

he wants to break things if those things then make his preferred system more propositional.
he loves the bitcoin bloat he loves the high fee's he loves the transaction scaling restrictions/delays/avoidances

he does not care about evolving bitcoin to be scalable. he just wants people annoyed by bitcoin soo much that they end up using something else.

[cryptosize]

and as for the whole comparing LN to the internet in 1991.. nope. bitcoin even from day one was able to install and make transactions without headaches.

Really?

How did you store your private key back in 2009-2010?

BIP39 didn't exist.

There's a constant evolution towards making Bitcoin more and more user-friendly. It's too bad you don't see it.

Just like the internet evolved from CLI/Gopher to GUI/Tik Tok.

I reckon it won't take 30+ years for BTC/LN to become mainstream. Adoption lag keeps decreasing with every new technology.

[franky1]

and as for the whole comparing LN to the internet in 1991.. nope. bitcoin even from day one was able to install and make transactions without headaches.

Really?

How did you store your private key back in 2009-2010?

BIP39 didn't exist.

There's a constant evolution towards making Bitcoin more and more user-friendly. It's too bad you don't see it.

Just like the internet evolved from CLI/Gopher to GUI/Tik Tok.

I reckon it won't take 30+ years for BTC/LN to become mainstream. Adoption lag keeps decreasing with every new technology.

firstly bip39 is not private key.. its "seed phase" storage. and even today i prefer private key storage, not seed phrase.

secondly
bitcoin actually worked from day one. it didnt need several installs and scripts to link several instals together. it was just one install file and job done. it had a easy to use user interface from day one.
UNLIKE LN

also LN has had 6 years and yet things like avalance has grabbed more locked btc liquidity in 2 years than LN managed in 6. get it yet?
heck even WBTC has 30x more locked btc liquidity than LN.. get it yet


whilst idiots are saying bitcoin should not evolve more transaction count until LN gets popular. LN is already failing the "get popular task" and so that benchmark requirement to then allow for development of bitcoin onchain scaling needs to be dropped

the whole "just be patient" response about why isnt bitcoin scaling. is lame and a dead excuse. bitcoin should continue evolving for bitcoin onchain ease of use not for creating features for dying subnetworks that will never prosper

if you really want a subnetwork for the niche things you think LN should be used for. its time you realise LN wont prosper those results and you lot should start a fresh clean network with better code and less flaws. learn from your mistakes.

in 2021 you lot tried to bring LN back to life with the el salvator project.. 3 months later it died. el salvador pushed LN into a metaphorical volcano

2022 you lot tried to defibrillate and bring LN back to life with the african project.. and already they are trying to throw it in the river to drown..

if you cant see that when people try using it they have bad experiences and headaches so drop it when they had enough.. its time you accept defeat and start again with something new without the flaws people tell you..
its not time to ignore the flaws and just repeat snake oils sales pitches promising mainstream utopia

LN will not scale because LN hits a liquidity problem when more then average users try suing it. and LN cannot fix the liquidity bottle necks due to the design of LN

[lassdas]

and as for the whole comparing LN to the internet in 1991.. nope. bitcoin even from day one was able to install and make transactions without headaches.

Really?

How did you store your private key back in 2009-2010?

BIP39 didn't exist.

Strange.
I still got some wallet-backups from 2010 and they work just fine.

Why would we need BIP39 to do that?

[cryptosize]

and as for the whole comparing LN to the internet in 1991.. nope. bitcoin even from day one was able to install and make transactions without headaches.

Really?

How did you store your private key back in 2009-2010?

BIP39 didn't exist.

Strange.
I still got some wallet-backups from 2010 and they work just fine.

Why would we need BIP39 to do that?

Strange indeed.

Did you miss the "user-friendly" part? Are you saying we don't need BIP39? Never heard of brain wallets? I can go on and on, in case you missed the point (constant evolution).

I still have DOS games from 1991 and they run just fine via DosBox.

Still doesn't make them as user-friendly as modern PC games from Steam...

[cryptosize]

and even today i prefer private key storage, not seed phrase.

And why is that?

Because franky1 is set in his old ways and doesn't trust BIP39 enough to convert properly his seed phrase into the private key (just like you don't trust LN closing properly a channel and settling your BTC balance on-chain).

Typical. Franky gonna franky!

I'm afraid this is a personality issue you need to resolve with a psychiatrist and has nothing to do with Lightning, Bitcoin or BIP39. Glad I helped!

[lassdas]

Did you miss the "user-friendly" part? Are you saying we don't need BIP39?..

I don't really get why you think storing some random words is so much more user-friendly then storing a wallet.dat-file, or PKs.

And I didn' say "we don't need BIP39", you might need it, even I might,
I didn't say it's not useful.

All I said was, that we didn't need it in 2009-2010 to store our keys, there were other ways.

Even franky didn't say bitcoin did not evolve, he just said it worked from day1.
You were the one questioning that.

[d5000]

Some comments to the evolution happening in the LN world, according to BitcoinVisuals.

In general it looks positive again, after a stagnating 2022:

- Network capacity from Januar to April rose from 5 to almost 5.5 kBTC
- Node count is also up, from 17000 to 18000 (1ml shows "only" ~16400, but there is unfortunately no historical view)
- But the channels count seems to be downtrending, from almost 80000 down to 75000

Thus the channel per node count is going down constantly, from mid-2022 on.

I wonder if there an explanation for that trend. It seems quite stable, so it's probably not simply "one big node with lots of channels taken down". If you look at the Channels per Node stat (on the left in the low part of BitcoinVisuals), it seems definitely that this trend is driven by the large nodes. The 10% largest nodes had an average of 18 channels in mid-2022, now this value went down to 15, while all other groups stayed constant. It seems almost that the network is slowly again decentralizing after a period of centralization in 2021/22 ... which is of course also positive.

The Coinbase announcement could however reverse this trend a bit perhaps, as I expect them to build up a quite well-connected node with lots of channels. I'm quite happy with the announcement though - it's the second big exchange supporting LN after Bitfinex, so we may finally see "LN arbitrage" becoming a thing (something that was discussed earlier as a potential "killer app").

[cryptosize]

Did you miss the "user-friendly" part? Are you saying we don't need BIP39?..

I don't really get why you think storing some random words is so much more user-friendly then storing a wallet.dat-file, or PKs.

And I didn' say "we don't need BIP39", you might need it, even I might,
I didn't say it's not useful.

All I said was, that we didn't need it in 2009-2010 to store our keys, there were other ways.

Even franky didn't say bitcoin did not evolve, he just said it worked from day1.
You were the one questioning that.

Internet (ARPANET) also worked from day 1 (back in 1969). Was it user-friendly?

You don't really get why a domain name (DNS) is much easier (and thus makes internet usage more user-friendly) to remember than an IP address? Really?

You didn't need BIP39 back in 2010, because a pizza cost 5000 BTC. Most people treated it like monopoly money. Hell, they didn't even care about securing wallet.dat files properly.

You can even store your private key in raw binary format (256 bits of ones and zeroes). Does that make it user-friendly?

TCP/IP and Bitcoin are very similar in terms of constant evolution and adopting a layered approach (something that shitcoiners/big blockers tend to hate for some strange reason).

If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.

BTC/LN naysayers remind me of this brilliant guy.

Let's talk again in 2030. I'm sure franky1 will find yet another reason to complain by then, even if adoption skyrockets to 90% of the global population.

[franky1]

all stuff said by cryptosize has nothing to do with wht LN is a failure.. he wants to ignore LN problems

and he thinks people need to wait another 7 years
he has yet to approach the period where he realises MATH and LOGIC shows LN has a liquidity bottleneck problem the more popular it gets. thus wont become popular due to its design flaws

oh well give him 7 years for him to figure it out and realise he wasted a decade on hopes and dreams and broken promises.. promoting crap

[BlackHatCoiner]

I don't really get why you think storing some random words is so much more user-friendly then storing a wallet.dat-file, or PKs.

Because writing down a phrase is something you learn to do from primary school, whereas storing a .dat file, which is represented in a non-human readable format, is more difficult and introduces more risks?

In 2010, you were told to back up a file, which from an average Joe's perspective is more easy to lose access to, and more difficult to protect. In 2023, you're told to write down your back up in a much more safe and easy manner, before you even begin using the wallet.

One of the problems with lightning is unfortunately that; back ups. With the current model, it requires technical competence to back up your node safely.

oh well give him 7 years for him to figure it out and realise he wasted a decade on hopes and dreams and broken promises..

Says the person who's done nothing in the last 7 years but to whine about "true consensus".