Lightning Network Observer

[Vickysagar]

after Bitfinex and Kraken, Binance is the next major exchange that has now successfully completed the integration of lightning network for deposits and withdrawals

https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/binance-completes-integration-of-bitcoin-btc-on-lightning-network-opens-deposits-and-withdrawals-eefbfae2c0ae472d9e1e36f1a30bf340
https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-integration-bitcoin-btc-lightning-network

They're a little bit late, but it's better late than never. I'm surprised it took them so long to integrate it since Binance is the biggest exchange.

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[cryptosize]

after Bitfinex and Kraken, Binance is the next major exchange that has now successfully completed the integration of lightning network for deposits and withdrawals

https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/binance-completes-integration-of-bitcoin-btc-on-lightning-network-opens-deposits-and-withdrawals-eefbfae2c0ae472d9e1e36f1a30bf340
https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-integration-bitcoin-btc-lightning-network

How much is the fee to withdraw BTC-LN from Binance? 0 sats?

[BlackHatCoiner]

How much is the fee to withdraw BTC-LN from Binance? 0 sats?

According to this, between 200 and 13,000 sats, which for lightning standards is pricey, but hey. It's Binance. 

[cryptosize]

How much is the fee to withdraw BTC-LN from Binance? 0 sats?

According to this, between 200 and 13,000 sats, which for lightning standards is pricey, but hey. It's Binance. 

Yeah, that's a lot. I wonder if Kraken LN fees are lower.

[Out of mind]

Glad to present all the new shiny rgbex.io: an explorer for the world of Bitcoin Finance #BiFi and smart contracts on #Bitcoin & Lightning - now supporting all the new #RGB features from the latest v0.10 release.

PS Made with zero javascript & cookies policy
https://twitter.com/rgbexio/status/1680991441785348097?t=WBApCqsgvItoBh0jSnPjCQ&s=19

[Wind_FURY]

after Bitfinex and Kraken, Binance is the next major exchange that has now successfully completed the integration of lightning network for deposits and withdrawals

https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/binance-completes-integration-of-bitcoin-btc-on-lightning-network-opens-deposits-and-withdrawals-eefbfae2c0ae472d9e1e36f1a30bf340
https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-integration-bitcoin-btc-lightning-network

They're a little bit late, but it's better late than never. I'm surprised it took them so long to integrate it since Binance is the biggest exchange.

Late? I believe not, ser. It's still very early days for Lightning. We don't know what LN can really be for the users yet, in my opinion. Is it merely for fast, cheap, peer to peer transactions? Or could it be a privacy layer for Bitcoiners? I read a write up saying that Splicing was the answer to make Lightning more private.

I also believe that there will be larger demand for more channels and liquidity in Lightning - IF it were to become Bitcoin's own privacy layer. Because LN has the potential to gather the largest anonymity set, it could be more private than any "privacy-only cryptocurrency network".

[BlackHatCoiner]

It's still very early days for Lightning.

It's not that early. I mean, lightning began in 2017. Six years and two bull markets have passed since then.

Is it merely for fast, cheap, peer to peer transactions? Or could it be a privacy layer for Bitcoiners?

It's both already.

Because LN has the potential to gather the largest anonymity set, it could be more private than any "privacy-only cryptocurrency network".

That's very debatable. In terms of BTC, lightning has ~5,000 BTC, which is ~$150M. Monero, with a circulating supply of 18M XMR, has an equivalent of ~99,447 BTC. It's much better in terms of anonymity set.

[Wind_FURY]

It's still very early days for Lightning.

It's not that early. I mean, lightning began in 2017. Six years and two bull markets have passed since then.

I'm sorry, but from a very long term perspective, it's very VERY early days. We haven't truly reached mass adoption yet.

Is it merely for fast, cheap, peer to peer transactions? Or could it be a privacy layer for Bitcoiners?
 

It's both already.

Has Channel CoinJoins already been added and implemented in Lightning? I read about it two years ago, but had since heard nothing about it.

If it's added, then Lightning is still not the first choice protocol for regular Bitcoin users to "mix" their coins. Many users choose to convert to Monero or use CoinJoin and mixers. Plus it's marketed that "fast, cheap transactions" is still the main value proposition for Lightning, not privacy.

Because LN has the potential to gather the largest anonymity set, it could be more private than any "privacy-only cryptocurrency network".

That's very debatable. In terms of BTC, lightning has ~5,000 BTC, which is ~$150M. Monero, with a circulating supply of 18M XMR, has an equivalent of ~99,447 BTC. It's much better in terms of anonymity set.

I said "has the potential" to gather the largest anonymity set, which I believe it could.

[cryptosize]

I said "has the potential" to gather the largest anonymity set, which I believe it could.

Possibly:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/150zzcr/we_can_potentially_use_splicing_to_bootstrap_the/

[fillippone]

You know you are on something when the Cleveland FED publishes a paper about Lightning Network:




The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

The Lightning Network (LN) is a means of netting Bitcoin payments outside the blockchain. We find a significant association between LN adoption and reduced blockchain congestion, suggesting that the LN has helped improve the efficiency of Bitcoin as a means of payment. This improvement cannot be explained by other factors, such as changes in demand or the adoption of SegWit. We find mixed evidence on whether increased centralization in the Lightning Network has improved its efficiency. Our findings have implications for the future of cryptocurrencies as a means of payment and their environmental footprint.

[franky1]

funny part is that more people use CEX internal reserve swaps between services and stable coin by a magnitude of 1,000,000x compared to LN
the reason people avoid the bitcoin network first and then use CEX second and then use ln 7th (other bridge subnetworks exist with more liquidity 3-6) is due primarily due to high onchain fees.

yep people avoid the bitcoin network due to fee's not due to (lack of)successes of other flawed systems

funny part is instead of fixing flaws to make it better they just want to promote any hype they can find
especially when if you really observe you will find the initiation of LN was inspired by the hyperledger project(institutions gathering to prototype CBDC, asking bitcoin devs to develop and sandbox test CDBC methodology on subnetworks)

so ofcourse a FED is going to suck eggs about something they pushed for years prior. as its the basis of their own project

[fillippone]

SBW Wond be supporting LN anymore.
Motivations are interesting.

<...>

What is this post for?

[Wind_FURY]

funny part is that more people use CEX internal reserve swaps between services and stable coin by a magnitude of 1,000,000x compared to LN
the reason people avoid the bitcoin network first and then use CEX second and then use ln 7th (other bridge subnetworks exist with more liquidity 3-6) is due primarily due to high onchain fees.

yep people avoid the bitcoin network due to fee's not due to (lack of)successes of other flawed systems

funny part is instead of fixing flaws to make it better they just want to promote any hype they can find
especially when if you really observe you will find the initiation of LN was inspired by the hyperledger project(institutions gathering to prototype CBDC, asking bitcoin devs to develop and sandbox test CDBC methodology on subnetworks)

so ofcourse a FED is going to suck eggs about something they pushed for years prior. as its the basis of their own project

Yes yes, and the way to fix those flaws to make onchain fees lower is simply to hard fork to bigger blocks like BCash, right, right? Noted.

Here's a write up for everyone, especially newbies, to read, https://medium.com/hackernoon/thats-not-bitcoin-that-s-bcash-f730f0d0a837

OK, let's move on.

SBW Wond be supporting LN anymore.
Motivations are interesting.

It has been debated here in the forum before. It will be challenging for users to run Lightning nodes altruistically forever. There will be opportunity costs because Bitcoin = a form of capital. There must be enough incentives for all that capital to be locked in those channels. If not, then the result is simple. They leave.

[n0nce]

Has Channel CoinJoins already been added and implemented in Lightning? I read about it two years ago, but had since heard nothing about it.

If it's added, then Lightning is still not the first choice protocol for regular Bitcoin users to "mix" their coins. Many users choose to convert to Monero or use CoinJoin and mixers. Plus it's marketed that "fast, cheap transactions" is still the main value proposition for Lightning, not privacy.

You may be referring to this article: https://thebitcoinmanual.com/articles/lightning-coinjoins/
Splicing and rebalancing seem quite useful and can definitely add some extra privacy on top.

As explained here, Lightning is not perfectly private as of right now.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/state-of-bitcoin-lightning-network-privacy

I'm not sure about the state of splicing in July 2023, though.
Core Lightning has an open Pull Request for it, although it seems like other implementations just started supporting it:

the PhoenixWallet which allows you to store your Bitcoin on the lightning network itself, has implemented "splicing" in beta and other great features!

[Bd officer]

Binance successfully integrated Bitcoin's Lightning Network, enabling faster and more cost-effective BTC transactions. ⚡️🚀 Embracing the power of Lightning Network enhances the efficiency and scalability of Bitcoin transactions on the Binance platform. #Bitcoin    #LightningNetwork
https://twitter.com/Volcano_Energy/status/1681681037758197761?t=q8giFFqTsdtdonfNkmhBTA&s=19
Beautiful visual representation of the #LightningNetwork

[Wind_FURY]

Has Channel CoinJoins already been added and implemented in Lightning? I read about it two years ago, but had since heard nothing about it.

If it's added, then Lightning is still not the first choice protocol for regular Bitcoin users to "mix" their coins. Many users choose to convert to Monero or use CoinJoin and mixers. Plus it's marketed that "fast, cheap transactions" is still the main value proposition for Lightning, not privacy.

You may be referring to this article: https://thebitcoinmanual.com/articles/lightning-coinjoins/
Splicing and rebalancing seem quite useful and can definitely add some extra privacy on top.

I first read about Splicing and CoinJoin in this site, https://lightningprivacy.com/en/channel-coinjoins

But the information in there is limited. We need more ELI-5 kind of write ups.

As explained here, Lightning is not perfectly private as of right now.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/state-of-bitcoin-lightning-network-privacy

Obviously not. That's probably why the community isn't in a hurry to adopt LN. Put some privacy features in there that's sufficient enough to hide a user's tracks, then we could see demand for Lightning channels surge.

I'm not sure about the state of splicing in July 2023, though.
Core Lightning has an open Pull Request for it, although it seems like other implementations just started supporting it:

the PhoenixWallet which allows you to store your Bitcoin on the lightning network itself, has implemented "splicing" in beta and other great features!

👍

Achieving base layer privacy through Lightning might illustrate that's the perfect conjunction between onchain and offchain.

[franky1]

funny part is that more people use CEX internal reserve swaps between services and stable coin by a magnitude of 1,000,000x compared to LN
the reason people avoid the bitcoin network first and then use CEX second and then use ln 7th (other bridge subnetworks exist with more liquidity 3-6) is due primarily due to high onchain fees.

yep people avoid the bitcoin network due to fee's not due to (lack of)successes of other flawed systems

funny part is instead of fixing flaws to make it better they just want to promote any hype they can find
especially when if you really observe you will find the initiation of LN was inspired by the hyperledger project(institutions gathering to prototype CBDC, asking bitcoin devs to develop and sandbox test CDBC methodology on subnetworks)

so ofcourse a FED is going to suck eggs about something they pushed for years prior. as its the basis of their own project

Yes yes, and the way to fix those flaws to make onchain fees lower is simply to hard fork to bigger blocks like BCash, right, right? Noted.

It has been debated here in the forum before. It will be challenging for users to run Lightning nodes altruistically forever. There will be opportunity costs because Bitcoin = a form of capital. There must be enough incentives for all that capital to be locked in those channels. If not, then the result is simple. They leave.

you really are not learning much are you. you are reading buzzwords and snippets and repeating them like a robot. but you are not actually learning or understanding..

with the latest ordinals junkweight bloat. and lengthy 'smart contracts' its proof core dont care about lean transactions to make efficient use of the blockspace. as is their method to miscount byte worth to fake the fee market again shows they promote making transaction 4x old costs instead of their promised discount(time you read some code and not troll blogs)

firstly take this premiss
imagine bitcoin as bank wire transfers. and imagine LN as paypal
if bank wire transfers cost $10 per payment but paypal offers(sometimes a false promise) payments at $0.02 but has some bugs.. yea sure you might get 1% of offboarding to paypal. but it still requires people to pay $10 just to get in and out of paypal. so those trapped in paypal dont want to leave it and so they get stuck promoting it hoping things will change.. but not admitting what need to change.. but you will then get 95% using other payment services(venmo, credit unions, virtual visa).. meaning even paypal doesnt win or get the attention it wants. and then you get the left overs trying to get banks wire transfers to do something about their charges and payment delays instead of using the charges and payment delays as the feature to promote their commercial other services

right now other subnetwork bridges and CEX systems have more liquidity than LN. and as someone else told you but i think you have yet to let it truly settle in your mind. LN's altruism is temporary.. so even the cheap fee on LN wont last
so LN with its bug, flaws, liquidity issues and bottlenecks all show a sign that when other subnetworks have garnered more liquidity. LN has lost the race.  
no point waiting another 6 years to fix their bugs. they had their chance.. probably best to start again from scratch with a better or more useful subnetwork or get the core devs to once again concentrate on bitcoin and evolve bitcoin instead of trying to get people thrown off the network via various methods

oh and as for binance..
they have not opened up upto 60m channels so that each of their customers can withdraw and close channel to get their funds. binance has just opened large hub channels with other services so they can arbitrage locked reserves between services..

binance has not caused any significant progress to any LN stats, infact LN liquidity stats have decreased in the last fortnight
other subnetwork bridges has grown more in the last 2 years* than LN has ever grown in any measurement of any allotment of any 2 year period of its 6 years of life
*(many subnetworks are under 2 years old and more successful than LN)

even nigeria and el salvador tried LN. both decided to drop LN as a payment rail for their wallets and went for CEX services to control reserves instead.

observe the flaws, observe the avoidances, observe the lack of interest. then ... ask for something better
if you just want to go with the flow and hope things will go better if you just wait another 6 years. then you are not helping at all. core devs wanted the job of making bitcoin better so push them to do so. dont just kiss their ass and call them god and tell them they are doing a great job of making users use other systems
if after 6 years they cant fix LN then get them to put their time back into making bitcoin better or start afresh on a new project that can actually do the promises they proposed many years ago

one last observation you need to make
core devs were paid hundreds of millions of dollar to develop features for corporations. this was not altruist donations. this was corporate contracts of investments of future returns. and those corporations want return on investment. which yes includes getting middlemen fees(routing) back from subnetwork payments. so expect fee's to go up on subnetworks when its time businesses want their ROI

[Revolter]

I was reading notes from the 2023 LN Summit at https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2023-July/004014.html

They talk about version 3 transactions. Can anyone tell me the timeline for this to happen? This is only for Lightning transactions or are all transactions going to be version 3?

[DooMAD]

observe the flaws, observe the avoidances, observe the lack of interest.

Observe the impotent man standing in the path of progress, pretending he can stop it.  

one last observation you need to make
core devs were paid hundreds of millions of dollar to develop features for corporations.

Observe the pseudo-dev who claims they write code and then refuses to share it with anyone and acts like he's in a position to critique the code of others.  *cough*HYPOCRITE*cough*

right now other subnetwork bridges and CEX systems have more liquidity than LN

Because the organisations who use other layer-2 systems like Liquid are largely custodians for the funds of others.  They have lots of BTC and sometimes need to move large sums of BTC.  Hence, their network has lots of liquidity.  The average LN user, individually, doesn't have that kind of coin to throw around.  Hence less liquidity.

Funnily enough, all the traditional banks out there. who are also custodians, also have more liquidity in the networks they use versus anything the average household might use.  What's your point?  

And more to the point, will you ever make a valid one?  Shitweasel.  


//EDIT:

you think someone's sperm count has something to do with the content of their posts..

No, that would be their brain cell count.  Yours is clearly very low.

[franky1]

observe the flaws, observe the avoidances, observe the lack of interest.

Observe the impotent man standing in the path of progress, pretending he can stop it.  

you think someone's sperm count has something to do with the content of their posts..
seems you need to research biology and technology to learn how they are different

well i have a family. im guessing your own lack of sperm count must be your lame excuse for preferring to have non consensual mindset. which you admit to having in previous posts

as for path of progress,,, your mindset is 'wait patiently', 'dont ask the devs do do things' so your path is not progress

im guessing windfury asked his forum daddy to come defend him, as always your mentorship of windfury only hurts him more

and as for the subnetworks i speak of no im not talking about liquid. there are more. if you can only think of blockstream managed devs. thats your fault

oh and if you look at LN stats the "average LNer" is not a random user. they are average and majority services/corporations.. yet when one disappears LN liquidity drops dramatically. showing that most of LN is not even used by average joe, its instead just sibyl nodes of some services cold stash that have little to no active activity.. they are just sat there hoarding reserves in locks, not using funds, just to push up the stats to fake utility

other subnetwork bridges are majority decentralised individuals..
and this is why so many services are starting to drop out of LN and why crybabies are screaming to try to get other services to join to offset the loss. forgetting about the initial purpose of decentralised individual utility. and caring instead for just trying to fake stats by garnering businesses to lock up their cold stashes

but you wont see this until you start observing things