1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2)

[grue]

./facepalm

He did not say he had 10yrs of BitForce related experiance.
He said he (he being who he works for/as/with) has about ten years of experiance with hardware building boards

learned circuits in grade 10
10 years later, "10 years of experience"

[nmat]

Watt/Mhash is one of the most important figures. With the difficulty adjustments during the following months, the running costs will probably be the bottleneck, just like they are today.

[RandyFolds]

./facepalm

He did not say he had 10yrs of BitForce related experiance.
He said he (he being who he works for/as/with) has about ten years of experiance with hardware building boards

learned circuits in grade 10
10 years later, "10 years of experience"

By this logic, I am quite the expert in masturbation. Anyone interested in a workshop?

[fred0]

./facepalm

He did not say he had 10yrs of BitForce related experiance.
He said he (he being who he works for/as/with) has about ten years of experiance with hardware building boards

learned circuits in grade 10
10 years later, "10 years of experience"

By this logic, I am quite the expert in masturbation. Anyone interested in a workshop?

Yes, thank you for that image.

[plastic.elastic]

Haters gonna hate on you BFL. Now all the FPGA designers are screwed by your product, they are fighting back with more BS and bad mouthing your company after they saw they are screwed and that this may be indeed, real after all. If I were you ( FPGA designers ), I would move to Russia because you seem to hate competition. Here in Russia they love monopolies ! Welcome. Free market FTW. I guess after about some time the people who buy BFL products now are screwed too as 28nm products come out in 2012 ?  

Actually, competition is one thing, unfair competition is another. There's a reason bait-and-switch is illegal.

Also, as RandyFolds nicely pointed out, I never "shouted scam" about BFL. If you review my posts made about this, the most direct address I ever made to the "scam" question was in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48863.msg633227#msg633227

Where I said the following:

I'm certainly not claiming that I know BFL is a scam, but I do find it very suspicious. To summarize, here are the things that strike me as at least a little bit odd about them:

And then went on to summarize some of the outstanding questions I and others had about BFL. Most of those questions are still outstanding, such as the alleged "other applications" claim. Judging by the test results, it does appear to be FPGA based, but they claimed before that it couldn't do anything other than SHA256. Still waiting for clarification on that. If it truly can only do two-step SHA256, claiming that it has other applications is seriously misleading, and is another way that they are attempting to compete unfairly.

For the most part, I intentionally tried to avoid the discussion because of my obvious conflict-of-interest.

In fact by how BFL handle the whole thing, its enough to see its their intention the whole time. What they're saying is basically "its not a big deal"..... thats enough to see their intention.

[freequant]

Your webpage reads the following claim : Rig Box "50.4 Giga Hash / S @ 2,500w".
That is 50W / GH / s, which sounds very optimistic knowing the power draw and thermal issues of the single unit
What will be the worst case scenario? Why not mention that straight away?

[freequant]

Ok, so let me start off by giving you the environment and setup details.
[...]

Thanks Inaba for the precise test report this time (glad to see that you improved on that point),
One point still unclear : can you confirm in which venue you performed the test?
Can we considere this test as the "live demo" we are talking about since weeks?

Regarding the 32-bit env, there are plenty of micro preinstalled distributions that you can boot from a USB drive, or run in QEmu from any OS.
You can just pick a 32-bit image, build the miner software on it, and test from this env.

[bombo999]

Freequant should be ignored, I really wish there was a way to block specific users from a particular thread, it really would improve the general tone of these forums.

[2112]

Regarding the 32-bit env, there are plenty of micro preinstalled distributions that you can boot from a USB drive, or run in QEmu from any OS.
You can just pick a 32-bit image, build the miner software on it, and test from this env.

You are so very naive. The "ufasoft miner" is open source and you can download it yourself and try to build it. This ufasoft guy is a international grand master Philosophy Doctor in software obfuscation for the purpose of padding billable consulting hours.

I'm actually amazed and fascinated:

1) dependence on a precise packaging errors made by the Ubuntu maintainers of libcurl
2) dependence on an open source clone of Microsoft MASM (JWASM)
3) dependence on a poorly documented JWASM extensions to MASM
4) dependence on a very specific release of GNU autotools
5) probably other things I didn't bother to research

The only hope to build it without extensive modification is to use the exact release of 32-bit Ubuntu.

I thought I've seen a lot of bad code. But Bitcoin ecosystem is completely pushing new frontiers. Or maybe Bitcoin is just attracting a special kind of programmers, who previously only created their ambushes far away from the open roads of FOSS?

[DeepBit]

I thought I've seen a lot of bad code. But Bitcoin ecosystem is completely pushing new frontiers. Or maybe Bitcoin is just attracting a special kind of programmers, who previously only created their ambushes far away from the open roads of FOSS?

Looks like you are using way too wrong version of Windows.

[Syke]

The company Butterfly Labs is a new brand created for the BitForce platform

The company name "Butterfly Labs Inc." indicates a legal corporation. What are the details of the incorporation, such as the state of incorporation?

[freequant]

Freequant should be ignored, I really wish there was a way to block specific users from a particular thread, it really would improve the general tone of these forums.

You see the "ignore" link under my username?
You just need to click on it.
Farewell

[bulanula]

It still seems like they have something to hide.

How do you explain the discrepancy between the rigbox and the single units ?

Why do you refuse to at least give us a hint about the chips or the litography process they are built on ?

Thank you.

PS : If somebody wanted to reverse engineer your stuff they can do it easy peasy without needing you to tell them the chips behind those heatsinks. It would be much more credible and legitimate of your company if you could tell us the "magic" behind these FPGAs and what process they are based on.

[Inaba]

Well, I saw two working units, so they have at least two.

As stated in the original post, the venue was the DC.  I stated that more than once.  Yes, I would say it's a live demo with development, not production/shipping hardware and software.

[Inaba]

The same

[BFL]

The company Butterfly Labs is a new brand created for the BitForce platform

The company name "Butterfly Labs Inc." indicates a legal corporation. What are the details of the incorporation, such as the state of incorporation?

There is an old thread 75 pages long and a lot of it is devoted to BFL not really being incorporated or a real business.

The legal entity is BF Labs Inc. which is a Wyoming corporation.  We operate under the brand entity Butterfly Labs with related dba filings underway for the various permutations of that name.  Any formal interaction with the company such as purchases and communication clearly states BF Labs Inc.

Here is the official entry in the Wyoming state corporate registry :
https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?FilingNum=2011-000606261

I should point out that Goat knows all this already as it's been covered several times in the previous thread.  I guess my job as forum rep is like following a toddler around with a wash cloth.  Ah..  I should stop complaining.  It's not so bad.

Regards,
BFL

PS.  Here's a previous post answering this same question:

1.  Corporate registry - The company is a 'C' corp registered in the state of Wyoming as BF Labs Inc.  Why Wyoming when you're not based there?  Mostly due to it's favorable tax and legal climate.  Operating in the same state of incorporation exposes the company to additional tax liabilities.  You might also find it interesting to know that the majority of US domiciled fortune 500 companies are either Delaware or Wyoming corporations for these same reasons.  Intel is a good example.  

[BFL]

BFL add a warranty and some legal info of your company and i might consider buying one (ofc after some units get shipped)!

All BitForce platform products are warrantied to be free of manufacturing defect or component failure for the standard warranty period of six months.  Should any of our products fail within the warranty period, your unit will be either repaired or replaced.  A formal warranty document will be posted to the site to clarify the full details.

Regards,
BFL

[BFL]

I want you to know I'm personally going after your "company", you will get the details soon. This was started about a month ago. You fucked up... Demanding I "shut up" and calling me a "child" is class:)   Sadly you wont be doing jail time for this.  I blame weak corporate laws... Anyway, get ready for small claims court.

Goat, just to clarify...  where do you think you've been wronged?  

We have entered into no contract together either written or implied.  You've been screaming scam since go and have simply had to endure our actually existing.  Really...  where does the hostility come from?  If you're looking for drama, go rent a movie.  We're just offering a product.  It doesn't really have anything to do with you at all.

Regards,
BFL

[DeathAndTaxes]

The company Butterfly Labs is a new brand created for the BitForce platform

The company name "Butterfly Labs Inc." indicates a legal corporation. What are the details of the incorporation, such as the state of incorporation?

There is an old thread 75 pages long and a lot of it is devoted to BFL not really being incorporated or a real business.

The legal entity is BF Labs Inc. which is a Wyoming corporation.  We operate under the brand entity Butterfly Labs with related dba filings underway for the various permutations of that name.  Any formal interaction with the company such as purchases and communication clearly states BF Labs Inc.

Here is the official entry in the Wyoming state corporate registry :
https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?FilingNum=2011-000606261

I should point out that Goat knows all this already as it's been covered several times in the previous thread. 

Actually I think this is the very first post where you indicated you have a dba filing as Butterfly Labs. 
There is no dba filing in the state of Missouri for "Butterfly Labs Inc."

https://www.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/SearchResults.asp?FormName=CorpNameSearch&Words=Starting&SearchStr=Butterfly+Labs&SearchType=Search

Where is the dba for "Butterfly Labs Inc" filed?

[BFL]

Actually I think this is the very first post where you indicated you have a dba filing as Butterfly Labs.  
There is no dba filing in the state of Missouri for "Butterfly Labs Inc."

D&T, "related dba filings underway" implies they're not through the process yet.  However, it's a valid question that you had asked before and didn't get an answer.  Mostly because the discussion hadn't been reasonable enough to warrant comment at the time in the other wild thread.

Having a DBA is legally relevant only when you're writing a check or entering into a legal relationship with a name that's not backed by a legal structure.  All our communication, merchant accounts & contracts are marked with BF Labs Inc.  So making a point of this is splitting hairs.  If you need to be right..  well, you are.  Is it relevant...  no...  not really.  In anycase, DBA's have been underway for quite some time and with a little patience, you'll be comforted to see them when you refresh your registry page.

D&T, in general you seem to have been at us with a fire poker.  I can understand why.  You were making a technical assessment that you believed in and mostly turned out to be right (regarding power draw).  However, I don't believe you've been particularly unfair along the way when you've had the facts...  and I appreciate that.

Regards,
BFL