1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2)

[Mousepotato]

It's a little too expensive for me at this point.  I'm interested, but I hope they eventually come down in price.

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[jamesg]

It's a little too expensive for me at this point.  I'm interested, but I hope they eventually come down in price.

Huh?

$600 for 830Mh/s is $0.723/Mh

I've built 30Gh in rigs and was getting this same $$$/Mh with 5x5830 rigs (all new equipment and custom aluminum frames). Two BFL singles (1660Mh/s) would out perform a 5x5830 rig (1560Mh/s) and the power consumption would drop from ~900w for 5x5830 compared with ~160w for two BFL singles. That's to say that the BFL singles would use 18% the power usage of an equivalent rig and get 100Mh/s more output.

I'm not sure if your math skills are bad or if you just haven't taken the time to figure this stuff out but the BFL singles make sense from every angle I can see.

That's why I bought 11.

[Epoch]

It's a little too expensive for me at this point.  I'm interested, but I hope they eventually come down in price.

I'm not sure if your math skills are bad or if you just haven't taken the time to figure this stuff out but the BFL singles make sense from every angle I can see.

That's why I bought 11.

For a long-term, dedicated mining operation, clearly it makes sense. For the casual, part-time, or small-scale miner, the net benefit is debatable due to the higher resale value risk (let's put the 6 month BFL warranty on the table as well). Not to mention that for people with low electricity costs (say, $0.03/kWH or less), there may not be much advantage to outweigh the additional risk in the short-medium term.

GPUs have a relatively well known, relatively risk-free, salvage value; there is always going to be someone looking to buy Radeons next month and next year. The aftermarket for Bitforce Singles will be orders of magnitude smaller, and they can be used for nothing other than mining; if BTC tanks (or is declared illegal, etc.), the Single would make a good paperweight or coffee table conversation piece but that's about it.

Having said that, I think it is inevitable that there will be a transition from GPU mining to FPGA/ASIC mining. It has already started (Ztex, Icarus, X6500, BFL, ...). Though this transition will be much slower and drawn-out than the transition from CPU to GPU.

@gigasvps: curious, having ordered 11 did BFL provide a discount?

[Mousepotato]

It's a little too expensive for me at this point.  I'm interested, but I hope they eventually come down in price.

Huh?

$600 for 830Mh/s is $0.723/Mh

I've built 30Gh in rigs and was getting this same $$$/Mh with 5x5830 rigs (all new equipment and custom aluminum frames). Two BFL singles (1660Mh/s) would out perform a 5x5830 rig (1560Mh/s) and the power consumption would drop from ~900w for 5x5830 compared with ~160w for two BFL singles. That's to say that the BFL singles would use 18% the power usage of an equivalent rig and get 100Mh/s more output.

I'm not sure if your math skills are bad or if you just haven't taken the time to figure this stuff out but the BFL singles make sense from every angle I can see.

That's why I bought 11.

I'm really not sure how much simpler I could have stated it, so I guess I'll have to break it down all lolcats like:

BFL COST X

I HAZ LESS THAN X

[RandyFolds]

It's a little too expensive for me at this point.  I'm interested, but I hope they eventually come down in price.

Huh?

$600 for 830Mh/s is $0.723/Mh

I've built 30Gh in rigs and was getting this same $$$/Mh with 5x5830 rigs (all new equipment and custom aluminum frames). Two BFL singles (1660Mh/s) would out perform a 5x5830 rig (1560Mh/s) and the power consumption would drop from ~900w for 5x5830 compared with ~160w for two BFL singles. That's to say that the BFL singles would use 18% the power usage of an equivalent rig and get 100Mh/s more output.

I'm not sure if your math skills are bad or if you just haven't taken the time to figure this stuff out but the BFL singles make sense from every angle I can see.

That's why I bought 11.

...assuming the singles exist...

[Mousepotato]

@gigasvps: curious, having ordered 11 did BFL provide a discount?

He indicated that they cost $600 each, so maybe they did?

[jamesg]

@gigasvps: curious, having ordered 11 did BFL provide a discount?

He indicated that they cost $600 each, so maybe they did?

Wow. You guys post in this thread an awful lot to not know the facts.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/

The page clearly shows $599 for a bitforce single.

I did pick one up when they were $499.

[RandyFolds]

http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/

That's the place where they said they would be delivered more than a month ago, right?

[Mousepotato]

@gigasvps: curious, having ordered 11 did BFL provide a discount?

He indicated that they cost $600 each, so maybe they did?

Wow. You guys post in this thread an awful lot to not know the facts.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/

The page clearly shows $599 for a bitforce single.

I did pick one up when they were $499.

I've posted maybe 2 or 3 times in this entire thread (and all of those were on the previous page).  That's an "awful lot"?  What is the title of this thread again?  I think your reading skills are about as good as my math skills

[Syke]

It's a little too expensive for me at this point.  I'm interested, but I hope they eventually come down in price.

I'm not sure if your math skills are bad or if you just haven't taken the time to figure this stuff out but the BFL singles make sense from every angle I can see.

That's why I bought 11.

...assuming the singles exist...

And assuming they last long enough to break even. Remember, these things were designed to run at 20 watts, and now they're being pumped with 80 watts.

[Epoch]

@gigasvps: curious, having ordered 11 did BFL provide a discount?

He indicated that they cost $600 each, so maybe they did?

We all know they cost $600 on the website. Gigasvps did not say what he paid for his 11; I was curious if he had received a discount for such a large order, hence my question. Why would I assume something when I can get the facts directly from gigasvps? Whether he choses to disclose that or not, is up to him, and I would let the issue rest there.

Though this is a speculation thread, after all ... maybe I should stick to assuming and guessing.  

[bulanula]

I, for one, am waiting for the rig box just because I'm pro like that

BFL please accept the preorder for that so I can give you my 25k ASAP.

[rjk]

It's a little too expensive for me at this point.  I'm interested, but I hope they eventually come down in price.

I'm not sure if your math skills are bad or if you just haven't taken the time to figure this stuff out but the BFL singles make sense from every angle I can see.

That's why I bought 11.

...assuming the singles exist...

And assuming they last long enough to break even. Remember, these things were designed to run at 20 watts, and now they're being pumped with 80 watts.

The power supply circuitry was sized for 20 watts, but is being redesigned because of the higher than expected power draw of the FPGAs.
I wouldn't think that any sane FPGA developer would overclock or overdrive his chips beyond their ratings, so it must have just been a fail of BFL to read the max power draw from the spec sheet.
Or, they could be custom FPGAs from the ground up, (I doubt this, for obvious reasons), and they simply couldn't predict the power usage of a custom design.

EDIT: I might also note, according to the pictures, these look like they might have metal packaging on top, similar to a CPU. From what I understand, this chip packaging is wildly expensive, so I wonder if that is what it is?

[mckoss]

I was feeling nervous about the lengthy delay in the order fulfillment coming up against the PayPal 45 day deadline for order dispute.  So I asked BFL for a refund via PayPal - I just got it back, no questions asked.  That might make others in the order queue feel more confident that BFL is a reputable company.

[fred0]

I, for one, am waiting for the rig box just because I'm pro like that

BFL please accept the preorder for that so I can give you my 25k ASAP.

I imagine with a rig box you could bank some serious coin on silk road. 

[simonk83]

It's a little too expensive for me at this point.  I'm interested, but I hope they eventually come down in price.

I'm not sure if your math skills are bad or if you just haven't taken the time to figure this stuff out but the BFL singles make sense from every angle I can see.

That's why I bought 11.

...assuming the singles exist...

And assuming they last long enough to break even. Remember, these things were designed to run at 20 watts, and now they're being pumped with 80 watts.

And now they're designed to run at 80w.  What's your point?

[Mousepotato]

And assuming they last long enough to break even. Remember, these things were designed to run at 20 watts, and now they're being pumped with 80 watts.

And now they're designed to run at 80w.  What's your point?

I believe his point is that they weren't designed to run at 80w, they were patched to run at 80w.

[rjk]

And assuming they last long enough to break even. Remember, these things were designed to run at 20 watts, and now they're being pumped with 80 watts.

And now they're designed to run at 80w.  What's your point?

I believe his point is that they weren't designed to run at 80w, they were patched to run at 80w.

My understanding is that the power supply circuitry is being reworked from the ground up to be good for 80 watts.

EDIT: I found the quote, here you go:

In relation to the original design they said:

The system actually consumes about 80 watts of power. The 1.1V core voltage regulator on the prototype system was designed with only 50A (around 55Watts) in mind. The power brick is rated at only 48 watts. As is clear, the system has been running over-currented (by some 20A) both on regulator side and PSU side (32 watts on PSU).

In relation to the updated design they said:

Our production system that is currently in manufacture for delivery, has two regulators on board, supporting max 120A of current implemented as a safety margin. The PSU shipped with the units will be equally supporting up to 135 Watts.

[simonk83]

And assuming they last long enough to break even. Remember, these things were designed to run at 20 watts, and now they're being pumped with 80 watts.

And now they're designed to run at 80w.  What's your point?

I believe his point is that they weren't designed to run at 80w, they were patched to run at 80w.

Firstly, you and I both know that wasn't his point at all.

Secondly, the board has been re-manufactured with different parts.   That's hardly a patch.

[worldinacoin]

Seems that they are in for production, wonder if anyone had purchased their production model?