1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2)

[bulanula]

It is only the trolls with too much time on their hands and not enough money in their pockets that seems to create all of the FUD. Sad.

As a potential customer, it makes sense for me to investigate their product. There's plenty of FUD going around, but that's directly caused by BFL's major problems.

We Fear the shipped product won't meet their claims because BFL keeps changing the claims.

We are Uncertain when they will ship because BFL keeps changing the ship date.

We Doubt they know what they're doing because BFL launched products solely based on a simulations.

The FUD is all BFLs fault.

Indeed, they are trolling us and they are trolling themselves

A little more transparency about what is going on under that heatsink and in their company wouldn't hurt at all right now IMHO.

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[rjk]

A little more transparency about what is going on under that heatsink and in their company wouldn't hurt at all right now IMHO.

But but but.... ITS PROPRIETARY!!!!  All these bad people wanna steal our design!

[Epoch]

All these discussions on scams or no scams, maybe one member should just spare the $600 get a unit and start mining to see if it is as claimed.

I'll report my findings when my bitforce single arrives. I have ordered one and can detail my experience. If anyone is wondering about my credentials:

My WOT rating (top 30) -> http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=gigavps
My rig building cred -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=51350.0
My mining farm -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7216.msg547120#msg547120

Gigavps, you seem to be one of the first people who have placed an order. So you should be one of the first to receive their unit, being in the first production run. Having been in recent contact with BFL yourself, can you tell us when you expect your first unit to arrive? If you still don't have a firm date/window for your unit, it would be informative to know that as well.

[jamesg]

All these discussions on scams or no scams, maybe one member should just spare the $600 get a unit and start mining to see if it is as claimed.

I'll report my findings when my bitforce single arrives. I have ordered one and can detail my experience. If anyone is wondering about my credentials:

My WOT rating (top 30) -> http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=gigavps
My rig building cred -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=51350.0
My mining farm -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7216.msg547120#msg547120

Gigavps, you seem to be one of the first people who have placed an order. So you should be one of the first to receive their unit, being in the first production run. Having been in recent contact with BFL yourself, can you tell us when you expect your first unit to arrive? If you still don't have a firm date/window for your unit, it would be informative to know that as well.

End of the month for the first batch is the approximate timing I was given. Second batch soon to follow.

[Epoch]

<snip>
I'll report my findings when my bitforce single arrives. I have ordered one and can detail my experience.
<snip>

Gigavps, you seem to be one of the first people who have placed an order. So you should be one of the first to receive their unit, being in the first production run. Having been in recent contact with BFL yourself, can you tell us when you expect your first unit to arrive? If you still don't have a firm date/window for your unit, it would be informative to know that as well.

End of the month for the first batch is the approximate timing I was given. Second batch soon to follow.

Very good, thank you. I'll assume that BFL isn't in a position to specify an exact date yet; by the end of next week they may be.

[RandyFolds]

<snip>
I'll report my findings when my bitforce single arrives. I have ordered one and can detail my experience.
<snip>

Gigavps, you seem to be one of the first people who have placed an order. So you should be one of the first to receive their unit, being in the first production run. Having been in recent contact with BFL yourself, can you tell us when you expect your first unit to arrive? If you still don't have a firm date/window for your unit, it would be informative to know that as well.

End of the month for the first batch is the approximate timing I was given. Second batch soon to follow.

Very good, thank you. I'll assume that BFL isn't in a position to specify an exact date yet; by the end of next week they may be.

12 days out and they still can't give a real number?

[dirtycat]

well if they dont come through with their product.. is there anyone else out there offering anything like this? 50.4 gigahash machine sounds pretty fun and looks a lot cleaner than a spaghetti mess of usb connected fpgas sittin around the house.

[notme]

Here's a bone for you conspiracy nuts to play with:

What if they have them built but during "testing" they were making so much BTC that they are holding out as long as possible to get enough to fund developing the large units.

[dirtycat]

Here's a bone for you conspiracy nuts to play with:

What if they have them built but during "testing" they were making so much BTC that they are holding out as long as possible to get enough to fund developing the large units.

or.. they made all the units even the large ones and are mining enough btc to become millionaires and then selling the units is just icing on the cake.

[kano]

Yawn.
At BTC = $6 - you need 567.8GH/s to make $1mil in a 365day year with free electricity ... (3,333.333 blocks at current difficulty of 1250757.7392747)
Which equates to 710 singles (at 800Mh/s) mining non-stop for an entire year ... and their fans not failing and never over heating coz they have no way for you to know this - they will just pack up and die without warning.

Of course if you had 8,518 of them you could do it in a month
i.e. $1mil a month is ~6.814TH/s at the current difficulty.

[naz86]

sick calculation

[deepceleron]

Yawn.
At BTC = $6 - you need 567.8GH/s to make $1mil in a 365day year with free electricity ... (3,333.333 blocks at current difficulty of 1250757.7392747)
Which equates to 710 singles (at 800Mh/s) mining non-stop for an entire year ... and their fans not failing and never over heating coz they have no way for you to know this - they will just pack up and die without warning.

Of course if you had 8,518 of them you could do it in a month
i.e. $1mil a month is ~6.814TH/s at the current difficulty.

sick calculation

Sick=incorrect?

Assuming nothing else changes; the addition of this many bitforce singles would increase mining difficulty, you would need even more.
It also depends on if your 800MH/s is 800,000,000 or 800*1024*1024.

Here's the number of singles I get after calculating how much higher the difficulty becomes, note this is 800MH; if spec'd at 800MiH/s you need more.

[Epoch]

Is there a point to this calculation other than the academic exercise? Using the terms 'bitcoin' and 'per year' in the same context is meaningless. We all know what has/can/will happen to $/BTC and network difficulty in the span of a year.

Forecasting forward even a month is challenging enough even with the benefit of a crystal ball, tea leaves, chicken entrails, and a Ouija board. Let's not forget the halving of the block reward come December ... but that is a separate issue.

If one had that much money to risk, it may make more sense to buy BTC directly and trade it opportunistically throughout the year.

[k9quaint]

Is there a point to this calculation other than the academic exercise? Using the terms 'bitcoin' and 'per year' in the same context is meaningless. We all know what has/can/will happen to $/BTC and network difficulty in the span of a year.

Forecasting forward even a month is challenging enough even with the benefit of a crystal ball, tea leaves, chicken entrails, and a Ouija board. Let's not forget the halving of the block reward come December ... but that is a separate issue.

If one had that much money to risk, it may make more sense to buy BTC directly and trade it opportunistically throughout the year.

You got chicken entrails to work with tea leaves on an Ouija board? I get a BSOD every time I try that.

[Epoch]

You got chicken entrails to work with tea leaves on an Ouija board? I get a BSOD every time I try that.

You must be running Windows.  

[fizzisist]

Assuming nothing else changes; the addition of this many bitforce singles would increase mining difficulty, you would need even more.
It also depends on if your 800MH/s is 800,000,000 or 800*1024*1024.

Here's the number of singles I get after calculating how much higher the difficulty becomes, note this is 800MH; if spec'd at 800MiH/s you need more.

You're confusing mega and mebi, right? 4 294 967 296 "whatevers" is 4.29 G"w", so you're actually calculating MiH/s (you wrote 4 GH/s). But more importantly, wtf? Why oh why would you use this insane prefix? I don't think it has any use outside of bits or bytes, and even in that context I think it's only designed to confuse me...

[k9quaint]

You got chicken entrails to work with tea leaves on an Ouija board? I get a BSOD every time I try that.

You must be running Windows.  

I have to run Windows, there is no Linux driver for tea leaves.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Assuming nothing else changes; the addition of this many bitforce singles would increase mining difficulty, you would need even more.
It also depends on if your 800MH/s is 800,000,000 or 800*1024*1024.

Here's the number of singles I get after calculating how much higher the difficulty becomes, note this is 800MH; if spec'd at 800MiH/s you need more.

You're confusing mega and mebi, right? 4 294 967 296 "whatevers" is 4.29 G"w", so you're actually calculating MiH/s (you wrote 4 GH/s). But more importantly, wtf? Why oh why would you use this insane prefix? I don't think it has any use outside of bits or bytes, and even in that context I think it's only designed to confuse me...

Exactly I started reading and got utterly confused.  My guess is the math is worthless to.

Not everything is base 2 (1024) really only memory and storage are.  Nothing else is.

1 Mhz = 1 million hertz
1 MH/s = 1 million hashes per second
1 Mbps = 1 million bits per seconds
1 MFlop = 1 million floating point calculations per second
1 Mpixel = 1 million pixels

I'm looking for a 0 fee PPLNS merged mining pool, where are you?

Bitminter of course.

[kano]

I did actually check to make sure those calculations where correct based on the numbers I used
(Edit: and I chose 800Mh/s as a simple round number since the final figure is still unknown)

The only crystal ball predictions I've been looking at lately are in Zelda Skyward Sword ...

Yeah no idea why he thinks 10^3 isn't 1000
There are no calculations in any of this that would have 1K = 1024
However, of course, 1 difficulty is 2^32 hashes

[fizzisist]

Assuming nothing else changes; the addition of this many bitforce singles would increase mining difficulty, you would need even more.
It also depends on if your 800MH/s is 800,000,000 or 800*1024*1024.

Here's the number of singles I get after calculating how much higher the difficulty becomes, note this is 800MH; if spec'd at 800MiH/s you need more.

You're confusing mega and mebi, right? 4 294 967 296 "whatevers" is 4.29 G"w", so you're actually calculating MiH/s (you wrote 4 GH/s). But more importantly, wtf? Why oh why would you use this insane prefix? I don't think it has any use outside of bits or bytes, and even in that context I think it's only designed to confuse me...

Exactly I started reading and got utterly confused.  My guess is the math is worthless to.

I think the underlying point is perfect: when you add computing power to the network, difficulty goes up.

Those damn bit prefixes just got me worked up and I had to say something... They're almost as bad as the Imperial unit system.