1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2)

[fred0]

Looking at the circuit board and not investing a whole bunch of time, it looks like this is the likely chipset:

$487
Xilinx
XC6VCX75T-1FFG784C
FPGA Virtex®-6 CXT Family 74496 Cells 40nm (CMOS) Technology 1V 784-Pin FCBGA

...
The spec sheet for current draw also might make one think it would draw around ~22w...

And they make money using this?

[bulanula]

Looking at the circuit board and not investing a whole bunch of time, it looks like this is the likely chipset:

$487
Xilinx
XC6VCX75T-1FFG784C
FPGA Virtex®-6 CXT Family 74496 Cells 40nm (CMOS) Technology 1V 784-Pin FCBGA

Package    784FCBGA
Family Name    Virtex®-6 CXT
Device Logic Units    74496
Number of Registers    93120
Typical Operating Supply Voltage    1 V
Maximum Number of User I/Os    360
RAM Bits    5750784

The spec sheet for current draw also might make one think it would draw around ~22w...

And they make money using this?

Can't be this because it has to be 2 of them chips I think.

[ArtForz]

...

Yeah, a FF784 package on a FF780 footprint. right.
While we're making random shit up, EP3SL70 or 110 (can't see any way to fit 120 rounds in a SL50, even 64 single-stage rounds is pushing it).

[malevolent]

Ok, I'm not familiar with all those FPGAs, but can someone estimate what would be the cost of setting it up to run mining software?
For 1 unit, 10 units,100 units and 1000 units, please.

[deepceleron]

...

Yeah, a FF784 package on a FF780 footprint. right.
While we're making random shit up, EP3SL70 or 110 (can't see any way to fit 120 rounds in a SL50, even 64 single-stage rounds is pushing it).

Okay, tough guy, how'z about: 2x IC CYCLONE III FPGA 55K 780FBGA, at $181/ea that's the right price range.

http://www.buyaltera.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?Detail&name=544-2515-ND

fpga layout of the via's under the BFL chip look similar to the Altera FPGA board:
http://www.hdl.co.jp/en/spc/ACM/acm-022/PCB-ACM022A-A.pdf

[ArtForz]

...

Well, if that's your guess... I could tell you what that's *very* unlikely, but... meh.

[DeathAndTaxes]

You see in my first column, all the calculations are in individual hashes, so all is accurate.

No it is WRONG.  Not sure how you can't figure this out.

You see 838,860,800 hash/s is the actual rate for BF singles used in the calculation, I translated the 800 mibihashes/s (2^20).

No the hashrate is 832,000,000 hash/s as reported by BFL.

There are many places around Bitcoin where the "computer" MiB, GiB are used - bitcoincharts' network hashrate, for example; lots of stuff is written by coders for coders, so 2^10 is used instead of 10^3, even when it doesn't make much sense.

Nope.  They use 10^3.  It only makes sense to use binary prefixes when the base unit is 2. For example storage & memory.

Speed, throughput, clock rate are universally base 10.

1 Mhz = 1 million hertz
1 MH/s = 1 million hashes per second
1 Mbps = 1 million bits per seconds
1 MFlop = 1 million floating point calculations per second
1 Mpixel = 1 million pixels
1 Megahash = 1 million hashes

Some actual examples since this seems to be hard for you to believe.

If you own a 1 Ghz CPU it doesn't run at 2^30 hertz.  It runs at 1000^3 hertz.  1,000,000,000 hertz
If you have a 1 Mbps connection.  It doesn't handle 2^20 bits every second.  It handles 1000^2 bits per second.  1,000,000 bits per second.
It you buy a 1 megapixel camera.  It doesn't have 2^20 pixels.  It has 1000^2 pixels.  1,000,000
If the estimate for the Bitcoin network is 1 TH/s it isn't 2^40 hashes.  It is 1000^4 hashes. 1,000,000,000,000 hashes.

On edit: fixed 10 vs 1000 typo (brain fart).

[DeathAndTaxes]

Okay, tough guy, how'z about: 2x IC CYCLONE III FPGA 55K 780FBGA, at $181/ea that's the right price range.

You do understand that is only 55K logic units right?

A spartan 6 with 150K (3x as many LUT) only gets about 200 MH/s.  55K Luts isn't enough for a single unrolled bitstream but lets pretend it is.  To acheive 800 MH/s = 400 MH/s per chip on an unrolled bitstream would require the chip to run at 400 Mhz. 

[RandyFolds]

"Sales tax will be added if shipped within the United States of America." So what is the American tax rate these clowns are charging anyway?

Try asking them.

There is no such thing as United States Sales Tax. It does not exist, kind of like the products they list on the page.

Hey I see what you did there,  that's really clever.

As for the sales tax, I'm not from the US and I understand perfectly well what they mean.  

See what else you can come up with.   Really lacklustre effort so far.

You aren't from the US and have no fucking clue how sales tax works, apparently.

Explain it Simon.

What do they mean?

e: Someone quote this so mongoloid83 sees it.

[Matthew N. Wright]

"Sales tax will be added if shipped within the United States of America." So what is the American tax rate these clowns are charging anyway?

Try asking them.

There is no such thing as United States Sales Tax. It does not exist, kind of like the products they list on the page.

Hey I see what you did there,  that's really clever.

As for the sales tax, I'm not from the US and I understand perfectly well what they mean.  

See what else you can come up with.   Really lacklustre effort so far.

You aren't from the US and have no fucking clue how sales tax works, apparently.

Explain it Simon.

What do they mean?

e: Someone quote this so mongoloid83 sees it.

Witnessed.

[jamesg]

I already quoted and responded to that shit...

Verified.

[Epoch]

not sure if this had been posted yet

I saw this picture the first time. Where do you have this picture from?

I think this is the 'Rev B' board; the one with the beefed up power supply.

[RandyFolds]

I already quoted and responded to that shit...

Oh, I know. I just needed to point out how little our buddy knows.

As far as your comment about not paying tax you collect to the state being illegal...yes...it's SUPER illegal, as is failing to charge sales tax and pay it to the state. Someone should call the franchise tax board of Wyoming and make sure they've got their ducks in a row. It might help settle the scam score. If they are paying their tax and operating above board, they are much more likely to actually deliver a product.





Two days, guys...

[RandyFolds]

Ha...120+ pages of thread and finally a mod shows up...

[k9quaint]

Internet rule #512: Do not send money to people who have numbers at the end of their user names.

[DiabloD3]

Internet rule #512: Do not send money to people who have numbers at the end of their user names.

:<

[fred0]

Nope.  They use 10^3.  It only makes sense to use binary prefixes when the base unit is 2. For example storage & memory.

If you own a 1 Ghz CPU it doesn't run at 2^30 hertz.  It runs at 10^3 hertz.  1,000,000,000 hertz
If you have a 1 Mbps connection.  It doesn't handle 2^20 bits every second.  It handles 10^2bits per second.  1,000,000 bits per second.
It you buy a 1 megapixel camera.  It doesn't have 2^20 pixels.  It has 10^2 pixels.  1,000,000
If the estimate for the Bitcoin network is 1 TH/s it isn't 2^40 hashes.  It is 10^4 hashes. 1,000,000,000,000 hashes.

I think these numbers are a little off. FYI. 10^3=1000. 10^3^2=1,000,000.

It happens...

[Epoch]

anyone considered that they owe you money for not delivering on time?
its not just that you didnt get the rig itself - they are actually preventing you from mining
If the chips were deliverd on time you would have had already mined quite a lot of bitcoins by now to cover the cost of the systems.
Each month of their delay in delivery of a 50GHash rig costs you 1K BTC = ~5Kusd
Each month of their delay in delivery of a 830MHash rig costs you 17BTC = ~85usd

(the 50Ghash rig looks like something that will burst into flames when you plug it in. Home electric heaters are ~1-2KWatt. this rig is 2.5Kwatt)

Let's get real. No company 'owes' you for lost income unless you have a contract with them specifically under those terms. If you don't want to tie up your money for so long, go down to the local mall or flea market, pick up some GPUs, and start mining now.

The only thing BFL needs to do is deliver product as ordered. The website 'guarantees' 4-6 weeks delivery from time of order. If it isn't already, I think it is becoming clear they will not meet that. But they seem to be willing to provide refunds at any time upon request. So, yes, I can understand this situation can be frustrating, but there's really nothing to do but wait.

[RandyFolds]

The only thing BFL needs to do is deliver product as ordered.

Which they already failed massively on...

/thread

[Epoch]

The only thing BFL needs to do is deliver product as ordered.

Which they already failed massively on...

My understanding is that if anyone with an active order is not happy about how this situation is progressing, they are free to get a refund at any time ... I'm not sure what the big deal is.