Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[Branko]

This is the only reason why I am writing here, wasting my time for free every day, although it would be wiser for me to remain silent. I just don't like lies.

Same here...just can't stand lies and hypocrisy...as war itself is not horrible enough
Its not that Russians are not to blame, but we're witnessing media warfare never
seen before, and it often requires of us to be idiots to swallow it (Ghost of Kiev,
Russians driving tanks in Kiev over civil cars on day 1 of invasion etc)

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[suchmoon]

Anyway, the time does not converge, the Russian army left Bucha on March 30, the video of the mayor about the victory was recorded on March 31 (posted on the network on April 1, but he says in the video that "March 31 will go down in history, etc."). Here is a detailed analysis of this staged video, read the full material is quite extensive.

Russian forces held the city for a month. There are mass graves. Were Ukrainians sneaking into the city, killing people, and burying them just to frame Russians?

Those fakes were also laid out in detail on the bones. The main star of the story about the maternity hospital turned out to be beauty blogger Marianna Podgurskaya, who then gave an interview in which she told what exactly happened.

She said "I'm not into politics" and her interview was heavily edited to make it sound like Azov was in the building, which it wasn't.

The theater was blown up by the Azov militants, trying to stage a rather absurd Russian bombardment.

Nearly every building in Mariupol has been shelled or bombarded by Russian military. Witnesses confirm that this is going on every day for 7-8 hours. There is no need to stage anything.

[tvbcof]

This is the only reason why I am writing here, wasting my time for free every day, although it would be wiser for me to remain silent. I just don't like lies.

Same here...just can't stand lies and hypocrisy...as war itself is not horrible enough
Its not that Russians are not to blame, but we're witnessing media warfare never
seen before, and it often requires of us to be idiots to swallow it (Ghost of Kiev,
Russians driving tanks in Kiev over civil cars on day 1 of invasion etc)

The coviads scamdemic was/is kind of in the same mind-blowing category.  For a while I was expecting at least some fraction of the peeps to come around as we entered into the die-off phase, but that never happened and it doesn't look like it will.

It really does seem to be basically the cyber equivalent of the Zombie Apocalypse that we are in now.  I hang around both because I've been an inveterate troll for three decades, but more than that to try to understand 'the enemy' in order to figure out how to deal with them because they will be a ballooning problem as time goes by.  It's not really fair to categorize them as 'enemy' since it isn't really how I feel about most of them (the fake ones leading the choir are the exception.)  But they are also not recoverable so there is little point in dealing with them (trying to convince them of anything) on an individual level.  Understanding the dynamics which animate them and trying to cut that down as much as possible on a systemic level is the only way to potentially make a difference.

[paxmao]

...

Well, I do not agree, but every insult you throw to the guy that actually resisted Putin is backfiring, you know?

Zelensky is a mediocre actor, but his success in the political arena once again clearly showed that public politics is show business. ...

[blah blah Ukraine lies and fakes...]

So, following your argument, Putin's army is super-mighty and Russia super-suoer-great and they have not been resisted just by what your media define as a "gay, nazi, jewish, actor and homo" (only nazi is an insult really), but it was because he had people prepared and business people backing him up?

So, your basis to consider that Europe should consider Putin's Russia's army and might a problem is just because all Europe is not ruled by drug consuming actors with well prepared people around? If you ask me, that is quite precisely how Europe is run, so seems that it is ok.

Seriously now, the level of ineffectiveness shown by Putin's army has not precisely increased its reputation. Is like if you want to bully the weak guy on the school and you come home with a broken nose and still call it a "victory" and then go and tell the rest of the guys "learn from that". I would be laughing if it weren't for all the soldiers and civilian losses in both sides.

[Veleor]

Anyway, the time does not converge, the Russian army left Bucha on March 30, the video of the mayor about the victory was recorded on March 31 (posted on the network on April 1, but he says in the video that "March 31 will go down in history, etc."). Here is a detailed analysis of this staged video, read the full material is quite extensive.

This article from the Ukrainian news site "Укpaїнcькa пpaвдa" from April 1st may provide additional clarity about dates and the rest. - https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/1/7336277/ (in English)

She said "I'm not into politics" and her interview was heavily edited to make it sound like Azov was in the building, which it wasn't.

The 24-minutes interview with Marianna Podgurskaya (Vyshemirskaya) was published two days ago. - https://youtu.be/IEJ9xG6-Va0 (in Russian)

[LTU_btc]

There was a fake in the maternity hospital, there was also a fake in the theater, why is it not a fake here? As Hitler said in Mein Kampf, "The more monstrous the lie, the more likely it will be believed." According to another version, this is a quote from the Goebbels manual, but radish horseradish is not sweeter. Apparently, the Ukrainian media follow the precepts of their ideological inspirers.

So, everything what goes against Russiaan narrative is fake? I still remember how Russians lost in their lies about hospital in Nariupol. First, Konashnenkov from Defence ministry said that it was fake staged by Ukraine, a bit later Lavrov said that hospital was base of Azov.

The 24-minutes interview with Marianna Podgurskaya (Vyshemirskaya) was published two days ago. - https://youtu.be/IEJ9xG6-Va0 (in Russian)

This video is edited and cut so much that I would be sceptical about things said in it. And as I understand, she is in Russia, so, in fear of her own security, she may say what they told her to say. BTW, she isn't actress ajnymore like Russians accused her first?

There is also the problem of the eight-year genocide of the Russian-speaking population of Donbass, who held a referendum, exercised their right to self-determination and decided to become independent, and then asked Russia for recognition and assistance. Russians do not leave their own in trouble, so now Russian soldiers are fighting side by side with the forces of the people's militia of Donetsk and Lugansk.

That referendum and these self proclaimed states is a joke. Such referendums is worth nothing. You simply can't make referendum in one region of country and announce independence. It goes against constitution of Ukraine. Such questions should be solved in referendum made in whole country. Same stuff about Crimea.
And about "genocide" - Russia is responsible for it. Until 2014 people were living in peace there, until Russkij mir didn't came.

[Branko]

And about "genocide" -Ukraine is responsible for it. Until 2014 people were living in peace there, until CIA backed coup removed legally elected president

I agree with you, actually

[paxmao]

It is just like the continuous pattern repetition on the post, people speaking of the issues in the Donbas, as if Putin could care at all about the actual people living in there and if they could, if ever given a honestly free choice - not like the "referendums" held, chose to join this or that country without any consequence.

This war is unrelated to nazism, will of people, the president being this or that,... it is simply a power-grab from Putin because he has failed to bring the old soviet controlled countries back under his Tzardom by offering an appealing alliance or economic advantages. This is simply absolutism and supremacism (I am so surprised he uses the nazi argument on others).

[suchmoon]

It is just like the continuous pattern repetition on the post, people speaking of the issues in the Donbas, as if Putin could care at all about the actual people living in there and if they could, if ever given a honestly free choice - not like the "referendums" held, chose to join this or that country without any consequence.

Once Mariupol casualties are counted, it's likely that Putin will have killed more people in Donbas in a couple of months than there were conflict deaths during the prior 8 years.


Edit: looks like Putin's propaganda will need a new version of the Bucha massacre denial. NYT dug up Maxar satellite pictures that show dead people appearing on the streets weeks ago, during Russian occupation, and not - like Kremlin apologists were claiming here in this thread - after Russians ran away.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html (paywall)

[be.open]

So, everything what goes against Russiaan narrative is fake?

In Bucha, this is definitely a staged fake of Ukrainian propaganda, filmed on professional film equipment. Here is a video of the cleansing of Bucha by the Ukrainian police, there, for the whole time, a corpse in military uniform flashed in the frame once, there are no civilian corpses there. The decision to provocation under a false flag was apparently made by Ukraine later.

Once Mariupol casualties are counted, it's likely that Putin will have killed more people in Donbas in a couple of months than there were conflict deaths during the prior 8 years.

According to my estimates, a grouping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine numbering up to 15 thousand people is blocked in Mariupol, in the port area and at the Azovstal plant. Under Azovstal there is a whole underground city with many floors, in which there are a lot of interesting things that it is impossible or impractical to simply bomb and blow up, so it is being stormed by the marines and Kadyrov's Chechen militants, together with the people's militia of Donbass. Rumor has it that the Russians have captured US Major General Roger L. Cloutier Jr. and many more NATO troops are trapped in a bunker near Azovstal. They also say that there is a huge bio-laboratory where they conducted experiments on living people abducted from the Donbass. There is a version that there is a disassembled nuclear warhead, but I find it conspiratorial. I think the bunker will be taken soon and we will find out what is really there.

Seriously now, the level of ineffectiveness shown by Putin's army has not precisely increased its reputation. Is like if you want to bully the weak guy on the school and you come home with a broken nose and still call it a "victory" and then go and tell the rest of the guys "learn from that". I would be laughing if it weren't for all the soldiers and civilian losses in both sides.

Objective facts show that in 48 hours Ukraine lost its navy and significant losses in the air fleet, and in 72 hours it was thrown back from the border with Russia by 100-150 kilometers, having lost the chance to shoot at Russian territory from artillery and even its own the most long-range missile Tochka-U. During the month of the operation, the Ukrainian army did not conduct a single serious counter-offensive. The entire military infrastructure has significantly degraded, the airfields have been destroyed, the oil refinery has been destroyed, the army of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has been immobilized in the Donbass and cannot leave their fortified positions. In the south, landing from the sea threatens Odessa and Nikolaev, in Mariupol the Armed Forces of Ukraine have no chance to get out of the encirclement.

[Etranger]

This is the only reason why I am writing here, wasting my time for free every day, although it would be wiser for me to remain silent. I just don't like lies.

It is a pity for everyone that you do not listen to your own advice and choose to be a two-faced creature.

In Bucha, this is definitely a staged fake of Ukrainian propaganda, filmed on professional film equipment. Here is a video of the cleansing of Bucha by the Ukrainian police, there, for the whole time, a corpse in military uniform flashed in the frame once, there are no civilian corpses there. The decision to provocation under a false flag was apparently made by Ukraine later.

You know, even the Nazis during World War II did not blame the victims themselves for their crimes. They at least spoke openly about their views. By your logic, did the Jews burn themselves in concentration camps? Unlike them, you are not only brutally cruel, you are also the last cowards. Did the Ukrainians themselves arrange the massacre in Bucha? Well, it's extremely easy to do when the city is under occupation for more than three weeks. In the occupation you are so proud of, because it is almost near Kyiv. Probably, people want to see your "velikaya rasseya" on their doorstep so much that they burn your fascist symbols on their backs. They rape themselves and their children, they shoot themselves with their hands tied behind their backs. Just to set you up, innocent sheep. Because the world has nothing to do but think about you.

[Branko]

You know, even the Nazis during World War II did not blame the victims themselves for their crimes. They at least spoke openly about their views. By your logic, did the Jews burn themselves in concentration camps? Unlike them, you are not only brutally cruel, you are also the last cowards. Did the Ukrainians themselves arrange the massacre in Bucha? Well, it's extremely easy to do when the city is under occupation for more than three weeks. In the occupation you are so proud of, because it is almost near Kyiv. Probably, people want to see your "velikaya rasseya" on their doorstep so much that they burn your fascist symbols on their backs. They rape themselves and their children, they shoot themselves with their hands tied behind their backs. Just to set you up, innocent sheep. Because the world has nothing to do but think about you.

They have large Russian minority in Ukraine...shooting them and then blaming it on Russia would be seen by Azov as double win, I guess
I'm from Croatia, and during our little war 30 years ago, all sides did that (yes, even us Croats)

[be.open]

In Bucha, this is definitely a staged fake of Ukrainian propaganda, filmed on professional film equipment. Here is a video of the cleansing of Bucha by the Ukrainian police, there, for the whole time, a corpse in military uniform flashed in the frame once, there are no civilian corpses there. The decision to provocation under a false flag was apparently made by Ukraine later.

You know, even the Nazis during World War II did not blame the victims themselves for their crimes. They at least spoke openly about their views. By your logic, did the Jews burn themselves in concentration camps? Unlike them, you are not only brutally cruel, you are also the last cowards. Did the Ukrainians themselves arrange the massacre in Bucha? Well, it's extremely easy to do when the city is under occupation for more than three weeks. In the occupation you are so proud of, because it is almost near Kyiv. Probably, people want to see your "velikaya rasseya" on their doorstep so much that they burn your fascist symbols on their backs. They rape themselves and their children, they shoot themselves with their hands tied behind their backs. Just to set you up, innocent sheep. Because the world has nothing to do but think about you.

Tell me, what is the logic of the Russian military to kill civilians when leaving Bucha? Why Ukraine staged this provocation, I can understand, but why would the Russians do it? I think the staged fake was made in a big hurry and a medical examination, together with forensic experts, will soon shed light on this situation.

[Branko]

Tell me, what is the logic of the Russian military to kill civilians when leaving Bucha? Why Ukraine staged this provocation, I can understand, but why would the Russians do it? I think the staged fake was made in a big hurry and a medical examination, together with forensic experts, will soon shed light on this situation.

Its possible that Russians did it, but it would be as stupid as Assad gassing his own civilians always AFTER
he would retake some territory...illogical...but in his case western media always promptly sided against
him, then going silent after UN team would find it was rebels that staged it

[be.open]

Tell me, what is the logic of the Russian military to kill civilians when leaving Bucha? Why Ukraine staged this provocation, I can understand, but why would the Russians do it? I think the staged fake was made in a big hurry and a medical examination, together with forensic experts, will soon shed light on this situation.

Its possible that Russians did it, but it would be as stupid as Assad gassing his own civilians always AFTER
he would retake some territory...illogical...but in his case western media always promptly sided against
him, then going silent after UN team would find it was rebels that staged it

I think Biden's ass is already getting very hot from the investigations with his son's laptop, and from what the Russians can find in the Mariupol bunker, and from the fact that his economic sanctions do not have a noticeable and quick devastating effect on Russia.

[TwitchySeal]

In Bucha, this is definitely a staged fake of Ukrainian propaganda, filmed on professional film equipment. Here is a video of the cleansing of Bucha by the Ukrainian police, there, for the whole time, a corpse in military uniform flashed in the frame once, there are no civilian corpses there. The decision to provocation under a false flag was apparently made by Ukraine later.

I think you're being fooled, just like when you were so sure that the reason Russia hadn't surrounded Kiev was because they wanted to let civilians escape and only a fool would think Kiev had any chance against the mighty Russian military.

There are satellite images from March 9-11 that show many of the same bodies on the road in the exact same positions that were filmed after Russia retreated from Bucha a few days ago.




https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html

[be.open]

In Bucha, this is definitely a staged fake of Ukrainian propaganda, filmed on professional film equipment. Here is a video of the cleansing of Bucha by the Ukrainian police, there, for the whole time, a corpse in military uniform flashed in the frame once, there are no civilian corpses there. The decision to provocation under a false flag was apparently made by Ukraine later.

I think you're being fooled, just like when you were so sure that the reason Russia hadn't surrounded Kiev was because they wanted to let civilians escape and only a fool would think Kiev had any chance against the mighty Russian military.

There are satellite images from March 9-11 that show many of the same bodies on the road in the exact same positions that were filmed after Russia retreated from Bucha a few days ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html

I think it is a fairly simple task for a medical examination to distinguish a fresh corpse from a corpse that has lain on the street for three weeks. Of course, not as simple as painting muddy pixels on satellite images, but nonetheless.

[TwitchySeal]

In Bucha, this is definitely a staged fake of Ukrainian propaganda, filmed on professional film equipment. Here is a video of the cleansing of Bucha by the Ukrainian police, there, for the whole time, a corpse in military uniform flashed in the frame once, there are no civilian corpses there. The decision to provocation under a false flag was apparently made by Ukraine later.

I think you're being fooled, just like when you were so sure that the reason Russia hadn't surrounded Kiev was because they wanted to let civilians escape and only a fool would think Kiev had any chance against the mighty Russian military.

There are satellite images from March 9-11 that show many of the same bodies on the road in the exact same positions that were filmed after Russia retreated from Bucha a few days ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html

I think it is a fairly simple task for a medical examination to distinguish a fresh corpse from a corpse that has lain on the street for three weeks. Of course, not as simple as painting muddy pixels on satellite images, but nonetheless.

Until RT tells you that the medical examiner is a Nazi or something.

[paxmao]

...
According to my estimates, a grouping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine numbering up to 15 thousand people is blocked in Mariupol, in the port area and at the Azovstal plant. Under Azovstal there is a whole underground city with many floors, in which there are a lot of interesting things that it is impossible or impractical to simply bomb and blow up, so it is being stormed by the marines and Kadyrov's Chechen militants, together with the people's militia of Donbass. Rumor has it that the Russians have captured US Major General Roger L. Cloutier Jr. and many more NATO troops are trapped in a bunker near Azovstal. They also say that there is a huge bio-laboratory where they conducted experiments on living people abducted from the Donbass. There is a version that there is a disassembled nuclear warhead, but I find it conspiratorial. I think the bunker will be taken soon and we will find out what is really there.

Oh my god! According to your estimates? Do you think they were also eating newborns, according to your estimates?

You miss in here the keywords "nazi", "drugs", "gayrope", ... your controllers are not going to be happy.

Seriously now, the level of ineffectiveness shown by Putin's army has not precisely increased its reputation. Is like if you want to bully the weak guy on the school and you come home with a broken nose and still call it a "victory" and then go and tell the rest of the guys "learn from that". I would be laughing if it weren't for all the soldiers and civilian losses in both sides.

Objective facts show that in 48 hours Ukraine lost its navy and significant losses in the air fleet, and in 72 hours it was thrown back from the border with Russia by 100-150 kilometers,

[blah Russia conquered this and that....]

So, the success was such that have decided it is enough and withdraw from Kyiv?

There is no text or talking that can defeat facts. The Donbas and the south are, as of now, controlled by Putin's army at a great cost and only near their bases. That's all and that is at the cost of more than 15000 young soldiers (and a few seasoned generals) and costly military equipment. This is very difficult to sell as a victory (because is not, mostly).

In Bucha, this is definitely a staged fake of Ukrainian propaganda, filmed on professional film equipment. Here is a video of the cleansing of Bucha by the Ukrainian police, there, for the whole time, a corpse in military uniform flashed in the frame once, there are no civilian corpses there. The decision to provocation under a false flag was apparently made by Ukraine later.

I think you're being fooled, just like when you were so sure that the reason Russia hadn't surrounded Kiev was because they wanted to let civilians escape and only a fool would think Kiev had any chance against the mighty Russian military.

...

There is one clear revealing fact: a number of high ranking Russian generals dying and other being demoted and dismissed. That does not happen when you win. You cannot lie your way out of the disaster. There was a clear intention of deposing the government and failed, simply because Kyiv resisted and have no doubt, all the world has seen how Russia has lost their regional leadership status thanks to Putin.

The Russian army did look mighty... before this war. Now looks like a corrupt mob, full of untrained soldiers, corrupt officials, demotivated tank crews leaving their equipment to run, crews sabotaging their own vehicles,... Putin's work all of it.

On war crimes, worry not, there facts are documented to exhaustion as today is easy to get a satellite image and literally anyone older than 10 years has a phone with recording capabilities. If you are right, it will be known... sadly, it simply appears that the frustrated army forces in the area just went psycho on the poor defenceless civilians and that is certainly not a war, but plain assassination.

You see, Stalin was able to hide massacres from Russian people even after he died, Putin does not enjoy such a luxury.

Now, I agree with the article.

The NYT article that shows your pictures is clear: bodies where there long before the  UKR army arrived
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

Comments intending to discredit are just taken out of the propaganda machine, there is no backing to them.

[Branko]

Worry not, there facts are documented to exhaustion as today is easy to get a satellite image and literally anyone older than 10 years has a phone with recording capabilities. If you are right, it will be known... sadly, it simply appears that the frustrated army forces in the area just went psycho on the poor defenceless civilians and that is certainly not a war, but plain assassination.

You see, Stalin was able to hide massacres from Russian people even after he died, Putin does not enjoy such a luxury.

It is interesting that you side with one side, and disregard what other side says, yet accuse everyone here.
I have no problem to admit that I don't know, as I saw all the evidence from Ukraine side, but I also saw

https://www.bitchute.com/video/6ZHPL2pTuadJ/

and Ukraine true/lie track record so far seems a bit bad