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Author Topic: What's wrong with eating meat?  (Read 29564 times)
Hazir
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April 23, 2014, 09:33:53 PM
 #261

Many human beings don't believe animals have rights, but do think that animals have important interests that should not be violated. But some of these people enjoy eating meat and fish, and so face a conflict between animal and human interests: the trivial human interest in eating meat versus the basic animal interest in staying alive. The human interest is classed as trivial because human beings don't need to eat meat in order to live. The animal interest in staying alive is classed as basic, because if the animal is killed then all its other interests are frustrated as well. Ethical question: Should the trivial human interest in eating meat be satisfied at the expense of the animal interest in staying alive?


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April 23, 2014, 09:39:51 PM
 #262

Many human beings don't believe animals have rights, but do think that animals have important interests that should not be violated. But some of these people enjoy eating meat and fish, and so face a conflict between animal and human interests: the trivial human interest in eating meat versus the basic animal interest in staying alive. The human interest is classed as trivial because human beings don't need to eat meat in order to live. The animal interest in staying alive is classed as basic, because if the animal is killed then all its other interests are frustrated as well. Ethical question: Should the trivial human interest in eating meat be satisfied at the expense of the animal interest in staying alive?

I think that the most important animal interest is not of staying alive - or else we should oppose all of nature's carnivores, that would make no sense.
The animal interest is rather to live or die in a natural and respectful way. Ie, not in the the unnatural context of factories where all their life is spent in suffering.

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April 23, 2014, 09:45:46 PM
 #263

1)   Many plants have a symbiotic relationship with people, we make sure their offspring thrive; market based corporative evolution at play.  We kill pests at our expense, the more we do it the more we need to manage the process. Here diversity and sustainable growing techniques like horticulture is your friend.

2)   Calories come from plants, for every 10 calorie fed to an animal you get 1 calorie back, if you are into consuming just calories, go eat high fructose corn syrup, it is plant based and more rich in calories than any meat. 

3)   Meat is nutritious if you are among the unlucky who don't know any better.

On health coming from a meat and potatoes diet and just cur out meat, that is unhealthy, or substituting meat protean with refined carbohydrates that is unhealthy, but if you take the effort to balance your diet vegetarianism is way healthier.   If you are malnourished, meat is a good food substitute, when you trade off the higher levels of consciousness you can enjoy at the expense of the lower levels animals.

Yet while I was focused on a meat and fish diet, my nutritionist told me that I had almost every vitamin, mineral and such in range (not he did not give me this diet, I've put it together myself). I did however not avoid vegetables, nor fruit, but I only ate them when I felt like it.


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April 23, 2014, 09:58:06 PM
 #264

If you believe that we evolved, then we could not have evolved if we did not eat animal protein. Despite what Peta and their followers would have you believe, plant protein is not enough on its own for proper development. You are correct in stating that we are omnivores and thus we need at least some meat protein. If the killing bothers you then milk and egg products are a good source of animal protein.


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April 23, 2014, 10:44:09 PM
 #265

Yet while I was focused on a meat and fish diet, my nutritionist told me that I had almost every vitamin, mineral and such in range (not he did not give me this diet, I've put it together myself). I did however not avoid vegetables, nor fruit, but I only ate them when I felt like it.

go for it. I just think there is more to enjoy in life than eating animals, the more I appreciate, the less desire I have to spread suffering. I still enjoy pulling the wings off mosquitoes who deprive my sleep.  
I've never thought about the animals/fish that I eat. It doesn't bother me.


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April 24, 2014, 04:05:45 AM
 #266

If you avoid eating the cow, a lot more additional plants need to be eaten to provide you with enough calories.

I think one problem our population has is that not many people know about nor have tried meat substition. Calories is no problem because a lot of non-meat foods such as french frys or beer for example have a huge ton of calories.


Without plants you wouldn't be here either. Your argument is without meat we wouldn't be here, to which I reply with, without plants you wouldn't be here. You can also argue plants gave you evolution.
No I do not argue about such a thing where do you see me doing so, see the difference between us? is that I do not denies that plants are important to us, while you do argue that meat is not, so your argument is invalid here and I still have a point


That is pure fallacy. Humans didn't evolve to use computers either, but here we are doing it now, right? Humans might not have evolved to eat purely vegetable food and meat substitute either, but who says it will not work out? Evolution is about adapting to an environment. We no longer live in an environment where meat is necessary to survive.

I said it's not easy and I backed up my point, there is no over confidence here.

Not so easy, but what is easier, giving 80% of all our crops and 50% of all freshwater to animals (that includes showers, pools, drinking water, hose water, etc) or planting crops? Also, it takes 2400 gallons of water to make 1 pound of meat. How is that efficient at all? Right? When you can eat meat substitute in comparison, it is so much easier to produce plus can have the same nutrients and more.

Or destroying the animals habitat to build more farm and crop lands? is this really an argument? most of the meat we are eating nowadays we are producing our selfs so no we aren't pushing cows, chicken or fish to their doom and in remoted regions like in some regions in Africa people who hunt for their meat aren't the one endangering the species if I recall correctly.

Why do we need to destroy animal habitats to build more farms and crop lands? Like I said 80% of our crops go to feeding the 1 pound of meat you eat, same with 50% of all our water. We wouldn't need any new crops if we gave more of it to ourselves.

Please check your argument again which clearly was that cholesterol and fat are bad for your health which is totally wrong, Abusing them it's what bad. as for the "Fact: Half of all men in the US will get Cardiovascular Disease." it might be true, but what does it have to do with eating meat? some are fat just from eating fried potatoes and other vegetables (doesn't mean abusing meat won't result to this)  abusing anything can ruin your health thus like I said before balanced diet is the key!

Yes balanced diet is the key. But like I said above, you don't need to eat meat when there are better substitutes that are much healthier, easier to produce, cheaper to buy, and can taste better.

Tell me what is easier: Eating regular meat that has a lot of bad stuff for you OR: Eating meat subtitute that is easier to produce, has none of the unhealthy stuff for you, and has more nutrients overall such as antioxidants and fiber.


----------


I would like to quote this so people in this new page can see that meat substitute can be better for you.


Like Lynn says, Tofurky sausages taste pretty much exactly like meat. Not all are vegan compatible though and they are mostly made up of soy, I still suggest trying them out though because they taste really good.

What I would recommend though is what most people have never heard of:





These patties are huge, mass of 106g, you wouldn't believe it was only 160 calories. They look like how they are in the pictures, wider than most burger buns. These come in packs of 12 for ~$10.50 so you can eat two a day and it will last you a week.



My favorite thing about them is that they are not mainly made up of soy. As you can see from the ingredients, it's made up of a bunch of different vegetables combined.  No artificial ingredients. And it tastes really really good. You can find these at some Wal-Marts, some Costcos, and some Sam's Clubs.

----

Another suggestion I have, although it's not vegan it's still very delicious:





Note how green it is on the inside, it's mostly made up of spinach and chickpeas and it tastes really good. You cook these or heat them up in a microwave and then you can eat it any way you want.

I haven't bought any of these lately for vegan reasons, so the only place I know that has them right now is Costco. I think they were around $8-$10 for a pack of 10, but overall these were much heavier than the Veggie patties shown above.

Veggie patch has a lot of different versions distributed to your local supermarkets but are otherwise are the same thing shown above.

----

Interesting facts about animal meat:
- They have zero fiber and are high in cholesterol
- They usually have zero carbs and have little if any antioxidants
- They are high in fats and high in the unhealthy kinds of fats
- Meat is treated with all sorts of toxics and chemicals crap not good for your body

Compare the nutrition facts above for the 106g of Veggie patty to this 85g of meat patty and tell me which one is better for you.



Here's a video I recommend to watch about foods that will kill you: Foods that Kill

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April 24, 2014, 04:14:06 AM
 #267

I frequently have one or two meatless days per week.
That is a step in the right direction. Smiley

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April 24, 2014, 05:54:00 AM
 #268

I frequently have one or two meatless days per week.
That is a step in the right direction. Smiley

I normally have zero meatless days per week, and I don't think it is necessary to have any. Normally, I eat chicken once in a week or so. I take fish for the remaining 6 days. I don't eat red meat or eggs.

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April 24, 2014, 06:10:08 AM
 #269

I need to try those spinat chops. Those have more fat in inside than meat loaf. I bet oil just drips out then you cut it.

I grew up in farm enviroment. I witnessed and helped to kill few hundred pigs/chickens/rabbits when i was young. Its not exactly pleasant job, i must admit.
I have nothing against eating meat or killing a pray for your meal. Killing for pleasure is what i hate.
Eating meat together with veggies just how we were meant to live. Everything is not either black or white. Theres also gray between.
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April 24, 2014, 07:45:44 AM
 #270

My take on eating meat:

1)  If you eat plants, you're not killing, but you are raping and pillaging the food source and/or homes of other animals and insects.

2)  By eating higher up the food chain, you can extract more energy per creature eaten.  Do you know how many vegetables you would need to eat have to consume same number of calories in a single cow?

3)  It's nutritious and healthy.
Finally someone pointed out a few valid points.
Also it isn't that unhealthy to eat meat.
1)   Many plants have a symbiotic relationship with people, we make sure their offspring thrive; market based corporative evolution at play.  We kill pests at our expense, the more we do it the more we need to manage the process. Here diversity and sustainable growing techniques like horticulture is your friend.

2)   Calories come from plants, for every 10 calorie fed to an animal you get 1 calorie back, if you are into consuming just calories, go eat high fructose corn syrup, it is plant based and more rich in calories than any meat. 

3)   Meat is nutritious if you are among the unlucky who don't know any better.

On health coming from a meat and potatoes diet and just cur out meat, that is unhealthy, or substituting meat protean with refined carbohydrates that is unhealthy, but if you take the effort to balance your diet vegetarianism is way healthier.   If you are malnourished, meat is a good food substitute, when you trade off the higher levels of consciousness you can enjoy at the expense of the lower levels animals.


1)  The point is simply that vegetarians aren't exempt from the moral landscape.

2)  Again, animals are going to eat plants regardless of whether we kill them for food or not.  And to the previous poster who mentioned the number of cows on farms is likely larger than the number of cows capable of being naturally sustained in the wild is starting to veer off-topic.  The question is whether it's wrong to eat meat, not which methods of global food production/distribution are most efficient.

3)  I trained as an amateur bodybuilder for four years under the direct supervision of a former Mr. Universe champion who also had experiences training the Detroit Lions minor league football team, etc.  My diet during those four years consisted of eating ~300-400g protein per day of which about 80% came directly from meat, and most of the rest came from oatmeal.  During those four years, over 95% of my daily caloric intake came from steak, tuna, oatmeal, and nothing else.  At one point, I had integrated about 16-24 oz. of mixed vegetables per day into my diet, but the difference it made, though noticeable, wasn't all that significant.  I'm still in great health and am able to do 100 consecutive push-ups, 35 pull-ups, and run 8.5 miles in just under an hour.   I have not had any vegetables in my diet for about  two years excluding a few salads and asparagus sides at restaurants.

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April 24, 2014, 08:10:03 AM
 #271

Benjamin Franklin...


Ben Franklin was also in to old fat chicks. I understand his reasoning... but don't share the same taste.

The only problem I have with you veggie-tards, is trying to force your opinion on everyone else. Get over it, we eat tasty animals (and chicken, 'cus it's cheap).

I think you will find it's the meat eaters who seem to be doing this and as usual in a defensive and childish manner.

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April 24, 2014, 09:32:58 AM
 #272

In your face vegans!


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April 24, 2014, 09:41:02 AM
 #273

In your face vegans!


I think you just proved the guys point right above you lol.
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April 24, 2014, 09:55:53 AM
 #274

Exactly. Vegans are usually quiet about their choice until it comes up then it's usually the meat-eaters who go on the attack asking them why and insulting them etc.

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April 24, 2014, 10:35:38 AM
 #275

Exactly. Vegans are usually quiet about their choice until it comes up then it's usually the meat-eaters who go on the attack asking them why and insulting them etc.
Yeah, so quiet with their whining "why do you kill all those poor animals you murderers? They have feelings too!"

And  I'm not insulting anybody, I just like some ham or tuna on my pizza.


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April 24, 2014, 10:50:05 AM
 #276

Exactly. Vegans are usually quiet about their choice until it comes up then it's usually the meat-eaters who go on the attack asking them why and insulting them etc.
Yeah, so quiet with their whining "why do you kill all those poor animals you murderers? They have feelings too!"

And  I'm not insulting anybody, I just like some ham or tuna on my pizza.

Tuna pizza?
That actually sounds surprisingly good.

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April 24, 2014, 11:12:07 AM
 #277

Exactly. Vegans are usually quiet about their choice until it comes up then it's usually the meat-eaters who go on the attack asking them why and insulting them etc.
Yeah, so quiet with their whining "why do you kill all those poor animals you murderers? They have feelings too!"

And  I'm not insulting anybody, I just like some ham or tuna on my pizza.

You're talking about a select few. Most of the vegans or non meat eaters here aren’t arguing about you murdering animals but of course you assume this and spring on the defensive attack with things you know will rile them.

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April 24, 2014, 12:35:52 PM
 #278

Exactly. Vegans are usually quiet about their choice until it comes up then it's usually the meat-eaters who go on the attack asking them why and insulting them etc.
Yeah, so quiet with their whining "why do you kill all those poor animals you murderers? They have feelings too!"

And  I'm not insulting anybody, I just like some ham or tuna on my pizza.

Tuna pizza?
That actually sounds surprisingly good.

Tuna pizza is fucking awesome, you should try it sometime
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April 24, 2014, 01:23:35 PM
 #279

I am an meat eater and i don\t see myself a criminal !By the way tuna pizza is supper delicious and u can add some corn and lemon to make non- meat eaters happy!

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April 24, 2014, 01:26:57 PM
 #280

I don't believe killing animals for food is immoral. I believe the mistreatment of any animal is and should be fought against. But... I don't consider it any more immoral than I consider a dog eating meat immoral. Or a bear eating meat. We were made to be omnivores, and I consider it immoral to deny that.
The thing with morals is that they are developed by society, and what helps or hinders a society matters far more than personal morals. There are personal and societal morals. Someone could argue that the environmental injuries done by meat-production and consumption hurts society, and so it would be immoral. Someone else could argue that by making meat eating 'immoral' you would be starting a war on the many cultures and religions that believe there's nothing wrong with it. It's better to leave these things on a personal moral level.


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