[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[jwinterm]

I'd be OK with doubling the bootstrap to a 2% presale.  Anything more would seriously test the bounds of acceptability, and give the impetus to fork too much energy.

I think the even 1% bootstrap will test the bounds of acceptability. I'm not totally against it, but I think other options should explored/exhausted before messing with the money supply.

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[smooth]

It would be selling Monero short if we sold 10% of it for a measly 610BTC.  And it runs afoul of social contract considerations.

I obviously meant the amount of funding as a very rough peer benchmark, and not selling the same number of coins for the same price as a presale for a coin that doesn't exist. That would be silly. Whether that exact amount is right for us I have no idea.

What plans does VIA have for funding beyond the 610 BTC? If they are hiring expert developers and incurring other costs that ~$300K won't last forever.

I'm asking these questions based on your view that VIA has been well managed from a funding model perspective so I am curious what they have done. None of this means we need to copy everything about it.

BTW, I disagree with the earlier comment that was made about this being a bad time to discuss things. The project must go on. If we spend 24/7 in attack-response mode that is a successful attack.

[generalizethis]

Please keep your crybabies out of the Stealthcoin thread!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=681725.msg8919046#msg8919046

That thread is for winners only. Not whiny babies.

Thanks.

Hypocrite much?

[Bobsurplus]

LOL, not even... Hes just acting like a crybaby... he's not bringing up any real issues.

On the other hand.....xmr...... Code is written like shit!!!

[Sons_of_Crypto]

Sorry folks, monero is done for, recovery from this will be an exercise in futility.  I was in and out awhile back, glad I didn't dive back in.  Bail now.

[smooth]

I'd be OK with doubling the bootstrap to a 2% presale.  Anything more would seriously test the bounds of acceptability, and give the impetus to fork too much energy.

I think the even 1% bootstrap will test the bounds of acceptability. I'm not totally against it, but I think other options should explored/exhausted before messing with the money supply.

As long as we are throwing out ideas, recognizing that the original plan (taking on maintenance and ongoing development of CN code base with donation funding) didn't work and doing a relaunch along the model of VIA is another possibility. Is that better than messing with the money supply? I'm pretty sure some would say yes, but I don't really agree.

As I said before I somewhat reject the characterization of "money supply" because I don't view current-day XMR as money, they are a speculative asset token that might someday turn into money (or become worthless, as recent events have more vividly illustrated).

Viewed as a speculative asset, X% dilution would be justified if you viewed that action as increasing the probability of success of the scenario in the previous paragraph by more than X%. Is 2% a good investment in this model? I say yes. Higher numbers may also be a good investment. At some point you get to diminishing returns. I don't know where that is, but I think >2%.

(Small math error intentional for simplicity of presentation.)

[iCEBREAKER]

It would be selling Monero short if we sold 10% of it for a measly 610BTC.  And it runs afoul of social contract considerations.

I obviously meant the amount of funding as a very rough peer benchmark, I obviosly did not mean selling the same number of coins for the same price as a presale for a coin that doesn't exist. That would be silly. Whether that exact amount is right for us I have no idea.

What plans does VIA have for funding beyond the 610 BTC? If they are hiring expert developers and incurring other costs that ~$300K won't last forever.

I'm asking these questions based on your view that VIA has been well managed from a funding model perspective so I am curious what they have done. None of this means we need to copy everything about it.

BTW, I disagree with the earlier comment that was made about this being a bad time to discuss things. The project must go on. If we spend 24/7 in attack-response mode that is a successful attack.

Yes, this is a good time to discuss things.  Strike while the iron is hot, pressure, diamonds, and all that.  

I can't speak to the efficacy of VIA's overall funding model.  But I do like their pre-sale algorithm.  That is worth stealing for the Monero bootstrap auction, ceteris paribus.

I didn't mean to imply you are in favor of selling 18.4MM 1.84MM (thanks smooth) XMR for 610 BTC.  It was just my way of illustrating the limits of copying another coin's approach, and the importance of finding the right balance for Monero.

[generalizethis]

LOL, not even... Hes just acting like a crybaby... he's not bringing up any real issues.

On the other hand.....xmr...... Code is written like shit!!!

We're gonna go back to discussing how we improve the best anon coin available. Feel free to come back and gloat in a couple days if we are wrong and sportsmanship isn't your thing.

[Hueristic]

Sorry folks, monero is done for, recovery from this will be an exercise in futility.  I was in and out awhile back, glad I didn't dive back in.  Bail now.

I have been out for awhile now and see this as the perfect time to get back in. Just waiting for the floor. So you guys keep working hard because your making me money.

[generalizethis]

Sorry folks, monero is done for, recovery from this will be an exercise in futility.  I was in and out awhile back, glad I didn't dive back in.  Bail now.

Thank you for the discounted XMR,  

[jwinterm]

For anyone who would like to help support network over next few days, or is just interested/curious, I put together detailed instructions on how to do cpu+gpu mining on AWS. Posted on the Monero mining thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653467.msg8919354#msg8919354

Thanks to oda.krell for giving me some impetus to write it up

[smooth]

For anyone who would like to help support network over next few days

Or longer!

[smooth]

Cross posting excellent suggestion how to solo mine directly to the developer donation address to both help secure the network and support the project financially.

Please do this!

Now that we are approaching the First Day of Fall 2014 (The Autumnal Equinox) in the Northern Hemisphere (September 23 at 02:59 UTC) http://www.almanac.com/content/first-day-fall-autumnal-equinox here is a suggestion to help the Monero project while helping to stay warm this fall and winter.

After starting bitmonerod (bitmonerod.exe for Windows users) enter:

Code:

start_mining 46BeWrHpwXmHDpDEUmZBWZfoQpdc6HaERCNmx1pEYL2rAcuwufPN9rXHHtyUA4QVy66qeFQkn6sfK8aHYjA3jk3o1Bv16em 3

So what does this do. In addition to providing some warmth during the fall and winter, it adds some extra mining hashpower to help secure the Monero network, every little amount helps, while sending any found XMR to the development fund as a donation. Let us spread some warmth during this fall and winter.

Technical note: The number 3 refers to the number of mining threads. I set mine to one less than the number of virtual processors in my CPU (4 for an Intel i5). To learn more about mining Monero please visit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653467.

[arielbit]

maybe the trolls are testing if xmr is bcx proof, testing if the devs are very good, testing the community, and getting the price low before investing a lot of money aka MEGA PUMP 

[Hueristic]

maybe the trolls are testing if xmr is bcx proof, testing if the devs are very good, testing the community, and getting the price low before investing a lot of money aka MEGA PUMP 

Troll agenda is obvious. Unfortunately for them this community is above the curve.

I need some good predictions for the floor to get back in. What do you guys think?

[David Latapie]

Hey Stormia! Glad to see you here!

[Hueristic]

maybe the trolls are testing if xmr is bcx proof, testing if the devs are very good, testing the community, and getting the price low before investing a lot of money aka MEGA PUMP 

Troll agenda is obvious. Unfortunately for them this community is above the curve.

I need some good predictions for the floor to get back in. What do you guys think?

Its not touching 0029 and bellow ever again

I'm a little lower than that right now but I can always raise it. As this so called "death spiral deadline" comes closer I will snipe what I can I think.

I have much more faith in XMR DEVS than these retarded trolls.

BTW if you want to get rid of them all you have to do is go into their flavor of the day coin and point out some truths.

[nioc]

maybe the trolls are testing if xmr is bcx proof, testing if the devs are very good, testing the community, and getting the price low before investing a lot of money aka MEGA PUMP 

Troll agenda is obvious. Unfortunately for them this community is above the curve.

I need some good predictions for the floor to get back in. What do you guys think?

At the top of the first post IIT is the link to the speculation thread.  Price has been steady today with people speculating that it might go down as we get closer to the deadline.  Others have speculated that the panic sellers have already sold.  Good luck.

[smooth]

For what do you anticipate the potential $250k reserve being needed, and couldn't that be covered by the ongoing mining tax?

An ongoing 1% at current prices (future prices who knows, but downside price risk is there if there are fiat-denominated ongoing costs) only raises about 10K USD per month. This amount declines due to reduced mining by about 4% per month (i.e. quite significant after say six months).

That is barely enough for one full time developer, not counting costs for infrastructure, experts, unexpected, etc. Of course there will still be donations, T-shirt sales, whatever MEW comes up with, etc. So I'm not saying it can't work, but it is definitely not so much relative to anticipated costs that the question shouldn't be asked.

[ArticMine]

maybe the trolls are testing if xmr is bcx proof, testing if the devs are very good, testing the community, and getting the price low before investing a lot of money aka MEGA PUMP 

Troll agenda is obvious. Unfortunately for them this community is above the curve.

I need some good predictions for the floor to get back in. What do you guys think?

I would decide on how much XBT to invest and then cost average over the next 24 hours or so. One can also monitor the trolls and when the trolling peaks then buy. I have observed a correlation between the intensity of the trolling and the price. I would also keep a close eye for developer announcements that could also impact the price.  This is likely to be a tumultuous couple of days so it is best to keep a cool head and stick to a system rather than try to time the bottom.

One thing is also possible. If the attack fails or is cancelled than there is a very significant chance that XMR/XBT will spike in a buying panic. One does not want to get caught short if this happens.