[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[Bobsurplus]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[1715273313]

1715273313

[1715273313]

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[1715273313]

1715273313

[iCEBREAKER]

talking about how the devs are losing their motivation, that they dont feel like putting in the extra effort like they used to

PLEASE just give a detailed breakdown of [what] they need, LIKE A REGULAR COMPANY

Before we all started chasing BCX and TFM's shiny new objects, discussion was underway about reaching funding goals.

Since we have some time to kill before the moment of truth, let's get back to that.

A 1% devtax on mined blocks (excluding tx fees) would provide devs with motivation for putting in continuing/extra effort.

In addition to previously listed items, we should consider keeping funds in reserve to pay for bug bounties and network defense (IE VPS rentals to host known good nodes while under attack).

I proposed a "retroactive pre-mine" in the form of a Bootstrap Block containing 1% of all XMR, which is 184,000 coins.

The 184k XMR/$300k it provides seems sufficient to fund the following to at least alpha testing:

$100k - refactor codebase
$50k - security audits
$50k - integrate DB
$25k - complete I2P
$25k - Official Wallet
$15k - bug bounties
$15k - p2pool
$15k - trustless web wallet
$5k - network defense fund

Are these numbers too high, low, or just about right?

[psterryl]

Fixed that for you.

For some background info on just how upstanding a character Bobsurplus is, I'd recommend this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=730880.0

BTW how long were you banned for again?

[Bobsurplus]

talking about how the devs are losing their motivation, that they dont feel like putting in the extra effort like they used to

PLEASE just give a detailed breakdown of [what] they need, LIKE A REGULAR COMPANY

Before we all started chasing BCX and TFM's shiny new objects, discussion was underway about reaching funding goals.

Since we have some time to kill before the moment of truth, let's get back to that.

A 1% devtax on mined blocks (excluding tx fees) would provide devs with motivation for putting in continuing/extra effort.

In addition to previously listed items, we should consider keeping funds in reserve to pay for bug bounties and network defense (IE VPS rentals to host known good nodes while under attack).

I proposed a "retroactive pre-mine" in the form of a Bootstrap Block containing 1% of all XMR, which is 184,000 coins.

The 184k XMR/$300k it provides seems sufficient to fund the following to at least alpha testing:

$100k - refactor codebase
$50k - security audits
$50k - integrate DB
$25k - complete I2P
$25k - Official Wallet
$15k - bug bounties
$15k - p2pool
$15k - trustless web wallet
$5k - network defense fund

Are these numbers too high, low, or just about right?

LOL, on the eve before the eve of your destruction you're looking to raise 300K from the community that you and your dev team clearly said are not investors...

You cant have it both ways kiddo!!

This song reminds me of whats coming up for you guys...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo

[Bobsurplus]

Fixed that for you.

For some background info on just how upstanding a character Bobsurplus is, I'd recommend this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=730880.0

BTW how long were you banned for again?

Have you even read that thread?

Dont you see.... my members make money... we leave coins better off and everyone is happy. What's your problem??

[smooth]

talking about how the devs are losing their motivation, that they dont feel like putting in the extra effort like they used to

PLEASE just give a detailed breakdown of [what] they need, LIKE A REGULAR COMPANY

Before we all started chasing BCX and TFM's shiny new objects, discussion was underway about reaching funding goals.

Since we have some time to kill before the moment of truth, let's get back to that.

A 1% devtax on mined blocks (excluding tx fees) would provide devs with motivation for putting in continuing/extra effort.

In addition to previously listed items, we should consider keeping funds in reserve to pay for bug bounties and network defense (IE VPS rentals to host known good nodes while under attack).

I proposed a "retroactive pre-mine" in the form of a Bootstrap Block containing 1% of all XMR, which is 184,000 coins.

The 184k XMR/$300k it provides seems sufficient to fund the following to at least alpha testing:

$100k - refactor codebase
$50k - security audits
$50k - integrate DB
$25k - complete I2P
$25k - Official Wallet
$15k - bug bounties
$15k - p2pool
$15k - trustless web wallet
$5k - network defense fund

Are these numbers too high, low, or just about right?

I'll share some of my personal thoughts. The core team has not really addressed this as a group.

DB seems a bit high if it doesn't include work already done (although some of that has been paid for out-of-pocket by the core team and should ultimately be repaid out of the dev budget).
p2pool seems low especially given ongoing development. (This is not a modification of the existing p2pool, which is largely unmaintainable, but a new solution based on some of the same concepts.)
$5K "network defense fund" might well be small if the attackers are better funded than that or multiple attacks occur, both of which are entirely plausible.
Other needs will undoubtedly appear, beyond a low level of ongoing maintenance that can be paid out of 1% of block rewards, at least at current prices.

In genreal I would suggest that if we are going to do this, that we just go ahead and make the "post-sale" bigger, provide for a larger fund that can be used on a more ongoing basis to hire expert developers and generally ensure that the project is adequately funded going forward. As a benchmark, how much funding did VIA raise? Funds that turn out not to be needed can be returned to the community in some manner tbd.

MEW is also working on a funding model based on memership fees and dev donations, so that should be factored into it. MEW is being launched Tuesday, according to the recent post, so more information should be available then.

Of course with more funds in an account intended for longer-term use there is more responsibility to ensure it isn't wasted or stolen so issues like oversight (as we previously discussed a bit) come to the fore.

Thanks for keeping going with this, and especially not being too distracted by attempts to distract us.

[infofront]

talking about how the devs are losing their motivation, that they dont feel like putting in the extra effort like they used to

PLEASE just give a detailed breakdown of [what] they need, LIKE A REGULAR COMPANY

Before we all started chasing BCX and TFM's shiny new objects, discussion was underway about reaching funding goals.

Since we have some time to kill before the moment of truth, let's get back to that.

A 1% devtax on mined blocks (excluding tx fees) would provide devs with motivation for putting in continuing/extra effort.

In addition to previously listed items, we should consider keeping funds in reserve to pay for bug bounties and network defense (IE VPS rentals to host known good nodes while under attack).

I proposed a "retroactive pre-mine" in the form of a Bootstrap Block containing 1% of all XMR, which is 184,000 coins.

The 184k XMR/$300k it provides seems sufficient to fund the following to at least alpha testing:

$100k - refactor codebase
$50k - security audits
$50k - integrate DB
$25k - complete I2P
$25k - Official Wallet
$15k - bug bounties
$15k - p2pool
$15k - trustless web wallet
$5k - network defense fund

Are these numbers too high, low, or just about right?

I'm not opposed to a plan like that, but I believe the emission rate should be slowed if we do that, both to combat inflation and keep the mining end date roughly the same, if not extended out even further.

[psterryl]

Have you even read that thread?

Dont you see.... my members make money... we leave coins better off and everyone is happy. What's your problem??

You. You are my problem. You and your unrelenting attack on Monero and Monero developers/supporters. You and your shilling for your latest pump-of-the-day (stealthcoin in this case). Your very presence in this thread is my problem.

I could ask you the same thing. What's your problem with Monero? You obviously don't own any and you've made it clear that you (or rather your "tech advisor" that we all supposedly look up to) think everyone is going to lose everything in 2 days time, so I don't see what purpose your continued posting here serves.

[illodin]

Bobsurplus is beyond pathetic. Every month or so he choose a new coin to shill for. He used to spam the Darkcoin thread with Cloakcoin advertising, now he comes here to propagate new nonsense. The coins change, but the nonsense he spews follows the same formula.

I'd also like to point out that when I was on the drk thread cloak was trading at around 50K sat maybe up to about 80K sat. It then went to over 350K sat, with 1000+ volume days for weeks.... Lottttts of money was made and lost.

Actually, you were there all the way through claiming how CLOAK was so technologically superior, and how did that end? I hope you have different "tech guy" this time.

You may want to also look into the code vetting done by Dan Metcalf of XC.

His Keycoin review didn't say anything you couldn't have said just by simply looking at the very abstract picture they had published.
Also the Stealthcoin "review" I found is just him trying out the sms text send and saying "it works" lol.

But what can you expect if you try to "review" something like that in a day or w/e he used for it when for example it took Kristov Atlas many weeks of hard work to review Darkcoin.

[aminorex]

talking about how the devs are losing their motivation, that they dont feel like putting in the extra effort like they used to

PLEASE just give a detailed breakdown of [what] they need, LIKE A REGULAR COMPANY

Before we all started chasing BCX and TFM's shiny new objects, discussion was underway about reaching funding goals.

Since we have some time to kill before the moment of truth, let's get back to that.

A 1% devtax on mined blocks (excluding tx fees) would provide devs with motivation for putting in continuing/extra effort.

In addition to previously listed items, we should consider keeping funds in reserve to pay for bug bounties and network defense (IE VPS rentals to host known good nodes while under attack).

I proposed a "retroactive pre-mine" in the form of a Bootstrap Block containing 1% of all XMR, which is 184,000 coins.

The 184k XMR/$300k it provides seems sufficient to fund the following to at least alpha testing:

$100k - refactor codebase
$50k - security audits
$50k - integrate DB
$25k - complete I2P
$25k - Official Wallet
$15k - bug bounties
$15k - p2pool
$15k - trustless web wallet
$5k - network defense fund

Are these numbers too high, low, or just about right?

I'm not opposed to a plan like that, but I believe the emission rate should be slowed if we do that, both to combat inflation and keep the mining end date roughly the same, if not extended out even further.

I expect a fork to result.

[Bobsurplus]

Have you even read that thread?

Dont you see.... my members make money... we leave coins better off and everyone is happy. What's your problem??

You. You are my problem. You and your unrelenting attack on Monero and Monero developers/supporters. You and your shilling for your latest pump-of-the-day (stealthcoin in this case). Your very presence in this thread is my problem.

I could ask you the same thing. What's your problem with Monero? You obviously don't own any and you've made it clear that you (or rather your "tech advisor" that we all supposedly look up to) think everyone is going to lose everything in 2 days time, so I don't see what purpose your continued posting here serves.

LMAO... I love getting under you BCT bagholders skins... Dont you get it.. I'm here to save potential investors a lot of money by voicing my opinion on this dying coin you call Monero. Anyone jumping onto this shinking ship deserves what's coming to them. It's that simple.

Stealthcoin is a winner and not my latest pump of the day. I get behind coins with innovation, great devs, community and potential. You're sitting here talking like xmr is a winner.. Its not though....
Suck it up.. You #PickedWrong and that sucks, but it's not too late for you to move on and make some real profits.

[smooth]

Stealthcoin is a winner and not my latest pump of the day.

Saving this one for when you have a new latest pump of the day.

[5w00p]

Bob, if I ask really nicely, will you cease posting here? [I can try, can't I?]

You shared your opinion, and unlike other threads, your anti-XMR posts don't get deleted 'round here.

Maybe I/we can sincerely wish you the best, as you depart this thread, having expressed your feelings and thoughts several times.

XMR  <hearts>  haters

Time spent posting here means less time doing what you do for your coins and people. Return to them, full of pride, and celebrate yourselves.

You guys deserve it!

[psterryl]

Stealthcoin is a winner and not my latest pump of the day. I get behind coins with innovation, great devs, community and potential. You're sitting here talking like xmr is a winner.. Its not though....
Suck it up.. You #PickedWrong and that sucks, but it's not too late for you to move on and make some real profits.

Just like the unmitigated innovation, developer competency, community and potential of Cloakcoin. Because you got behind that one. Right? Talk about picking a winner!

Anyway I have better things to be doing with my time than sitting here going round in circles with egotistical asshats like yourself!

In two days time I fully expect you to be proven wrong with your Monero doomsday fantasies. Call it five, so the developers have some time to remedy the situation in the unlikely event that some sort of attack actually does go ahead. If after five days, Monero is but a smouldering wreck of a cryptocurrency, I will apologise to you unreservedly and eat a hefty slice of humble pie. But for the time being I have lost interest in continuing discourse with someone whose motivations are as transparent as yours. Until then, adieu.

[nioc]

talking about how the devs are losing their motivation, that they dont feel like putting in the extra effort like they used to

PLEASE just give a detailed breakdown of [what] they need, LIKE A REGULAR COMPANY

Before we all started chasing BCX and TFM's shiny new objects, discussion was underway about reaching funding goals.

Since we have some time to kill before the moment of truth, let's get back to that.

A 1% devtax on mined blocks (excluding tx fees) would provide devs with motivation for putting in continuing/extra effort.

In addition to previously listed items, we should consider keeping funds in reserve to pay for bug bounties and network defense (IE VPS rentals to host known good nodes while under attack).

I proposed a "retroactive pre-mine" in the form of a Bootstrap Block containing 1% of all XMR, which is 184,000 coins.

The 184k XMR/$300k it provides seems sufficient to fund the following to at least alpha testing:

$100k - refactor codebase
$50k - security audits
$50k - integrate DB
$25k - complete I2P
$25k - Official Wallet
$15k - bug bounties
$15k - p2pool
$15k - trustless web wallet
$5k - network defense fund

Are these numbers too high, low, or just about right?

I'm not opposed to a plan like that, but I believe the emission rate should be slowed if we do that, both to combat inflation and keep the mining end date roughly the same, if not extended out even further.

I expect a fork to result.

Is your response was directed to infofront only?  

[aminorex]

I expect a fork to result.

Is your response was directed to infofront only?  

It's a general comment which would apply to any substantive changes to the basic scheme of the coin.  Bad timing to even have to discuss this now, but there it is.  Game it out.  What do you expect?

[infofront]

Talking about FUD and potential attacks here isn't going to do much good. I think iCEBREAKER is right about needing to get back to a somewhat normal state of affairs.

[Mumbles]

I have been mildly critical of the XMR developers in the past for their slow progress on fronts such as db, GUI, etc... But having read all of the exploit FUD thread and this thread, and reviewed the potential issues with some very talented math folks I know, I want to say that I am really positively impressed with the dev team. You guys have really handled the various attackers and FUDders with calm and reasonable approach, have done a lot of extra diligence, and prepared for how you would handle a vulnerability should one be discovered. Really appreciate all you have done and my respect for the team and their work has really increased a lot in the past few days. I think this is going to make the XMR community even stronger and the coin even more solid going forward.

I have only one suggestion for things you can do better during this crisis and that is to not repsond to obvious trolls/idiots like BobSurplus. You just give them a forum to spout their nonsense and they ignore any evidence or proof you offer anyway, so there is nothing to gain. Just let them spout off and you continue to advise the community on your progress and evaluations as they come up. Keep up the good work, we definitely appreciate it.

[iCEBREAKER]

A 1% devtax on mined blocks (excluding tx fees) would provide devs with motivation for putting in continuing/extra effort.

I proposed a "retroactive pre-mine" in the form of a Bootstrap Block containing 1% of all XMR, which is 184,000 coins.

I'll share some of my personal thoughts. The core team has not really addressed this as a group.

DB seems a bit high if it doesn't include work already done (although some of that has been paid for out-of-pocket by the core team and should ultimately be repaid out of the dev budget).
p2pool seems low especially given ongoing development. (This is not a modification of the existing p2pool, which is largely unmaintainable, but a new solution based on some of the same concepts.)
$5K "network defense fund" might well be small if the attackers are better funded than that or multiple attacks occur, both of which are entirely plausible.
Other needs will undoubtedly appear, beyond a low level of ongoing maintenance that can be paid out of 1% of block rewards, at least at current prices.

In genreal I would suggest that if we are going to do this, that we just go ahead and make the "post-sale" bigger, provide for a larger fund that can be used on a more ongoing basis to hire expert developers and generally ensure that the project is adequately funded going forward. As a benchmark, how much funding did VIA raise? Funds that turn out not to be needed can be returned to the community in some manner tbd.

MEW is also working on a funding model based on memership fees and dev donations, so that should be factored into it. MEW is being launched Tuesday, according to the recent post, so more information should be available then.

Of course with more funds in an account intended for longer-term use there is more responsibility to ensure it isn't wasted or stolen so issues like oversight (as we previously discussed a bit) come to the fore.

Thanks for keeping going with this, and especially not being too distracted by attempts to distract us.

VIA raised 610BTC, via a presale of about 10% of total coins.

Other than emulating the mechanics of their scrupulous, very well done presale, I can't recommend going much further in that direction.

It would be selling Monero short if we sold 10% of it for a measly 610BTC.  And it runs afoul of social contract considerations.

I'd be OK with doubling the bootstrap to a 2% presale.  Anything more would seriously test the bounds of acceptability, and give the impetus to fork additional energy.

Be careful about advocating for a bigger "post-sale."  As a core dev, the knives are already out for you, and anything that may be twisted into the appearance of impropriety will be, with relish.    Another consideration is market fatigue, IE the larger our pre-sale the lower the diminished marginal return per coin.

I may join the MEW, but at first glance do not like their 'membership fee' approach to dev funding.  It seems too centralized and cliquish for a true FOSS project, while allowing outsiders to ride free on their/our contributions.

This will be the first, and only, time I will agree with David Lapatie and take the pinko socialist position in favor of a wealth tax, albeit flat and thus fairly apportioned.  

Let's run the numbers for a 2% bootstrap, taking your feedback into account.

The 368k XMR/$600k it provides seems sufficient to fund the following to at least alpha testing, and provide a semi-comfortable reserve going forward:

$100k - refactor codebase
$50k - security audits
$50k - integrate DB
$25k - complete I2P
$25k - Official Wallet
$25k - p2pool
$25k - bug bounties
$25k - network defense fund
$25k - trustless web wallet


Now we've got $350k of initial expenses, which would leave $250k in the war chest.

Given that a 1% Bootstrap pre-sale (with some luck and contributions from the MEW) would raise about $350k, I'm not yet convinced of the need for a larger one.

For what do you anticipate the potential $250k reserve being needed, and couldn't that be covered by the ongoing mining tax?

[Bobsurplus]

Please keep your crybabies out of the Stealthcoin thread!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=681725.msg8919046#msg8919046

That thread is for winners only. Not whiny babies.

Thanks.