[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[smooth]

@Smooth, what IYO would be the best approach to a decentralized market place? IIRC we were waiting on the multi-sig for that purpose?

Good question. It isn't a problem I've thought a lot about but I think something like my idea for off-chain messaging with on-chain fee payment is probably a good foundation. Listing items, making offers/purchases, etc. could all be messages. Identity, rating, reputations,  web-of-trust, etc. are a tricker problems and probably need some other solution.

Search is unsolved, and openbazzar got a lot of things about the infrastructure obviously wrong (running over UDP which is incompatible with Tor - WTF?, people need to leave their computers on to serve a store - WTF?)

I think it should be left off Monero's blockchain for reasons stated by Smooth in the past about the potential to "bloat" the chain or whatever...

I just think that this theoretical store would need people to run it's own software program and have it's own GUI and everything... like downloading, running a node, and web browsing through tor, in a way... I would assume...

The off-chain message proposal is a good model, in principle. It includes a mechanism for paying a fee on-chain (after all that's the only way you can pay a fee), but the content and most of the interaction is off chain. Even that might become unscalable if the volume of usage is extremely high (so too many fees being paid) but we can address that if and when it happens. For now the bigger issue with Monero is empty blocks, not too many transactions.

3 month bump!

@Smooth, are there any flags that could be set so that the added bloat could be temporary and pruned after a specific time frame or would a HF be required to add one? My mind is weird, I just remembered I never asked this question (I think I took off for a week and forgot about it)!

If I recall correctly my off-chain message proposal could be implemented without a hard fork. It does require nodes to upgrade, or alternately a completely separate program could be used to transmit the "payload" (perhaps in the case of a commerce application this would be a better approach anyway).

As far as Monero stands today, there isn't really any way to put data on the chain that can be completely pruned. Limited pruning of signatures like what Bitcoin currently does (only storage, not addressing bandwidth) can be done with Monero as well (similar to what is implemented in AEON, but it would need to be redone for LMDB). As I understand it, things are reworked a bit in RingCT and more modes of pruning may be possible, similar to Bitcoin's segwit. I have not followed the coding for RingCT closely though, so I don't know the details.

Do you have a link for your proposal?

No but it was only a relatively short time in this thread before the above exchange. Shouldn't be hard to find.

The basic idea was to get a hash of the message mined into the blockchain (for example doing a tiny transaction and putting the hash of the message in the payment ID), and paying a fee. The mined hash is then honored by the p2p network to allow relaying that specific message for some limited period like two weeks. This doesn't give a direct incentive to the nodes but at least it minimizes the bloat on the blockchain and prevents cost-free spamming of the p2p.

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[mmortal03]

Lets not forget there are things called compression algorithm's as well if need be. I think the bloat bullshit is being BLOWN way out of proportion!

Yeah, we'll need this at the network level before we'll need it at the storage level, at least if comparing to Bitcoin. From what I've read, the higher priority for the Core devs hasn't been hard drive space, but network throughput. There needs to be various protocol solutions to maintain the network's decentralized state as much as possible and which don't rely upon a centralized relay network to propagate blocks sufficiently for the miners. The miners have already resorted to using a centralized block propagation system for profitability reasons. I suspect that as Monero becomes more popular, a similar situation will arise.

While it's probably true that a decentralized network can never directly compete with the throughput of a centralized solution in this respect, there still needs to be an improved solution at the protocol level that's more thoroughly decentralized, if only as a fallback option.

[Hueristic]

Lets not forget there are things called compression algorithm's as well if need be. I think the bloat bullshit is being BLOWN way out of proportion!

Yeah, we'll need this at the network level before we'll need it at the storage level, at least if comparing to Bitcoin. From what I've read, the higher priority for the Core devs hasn't been hard drive space, but network throughput. There needs to be various protocol solutions to maintain the network's decentralized state as much as possible and which don't rely upon a centralized relay network to propagate blocks sufficiently for the miners. The miners have already resorted to using a centralized block propagation system for profitability reasons. I suspect that as Monero becomes more popular, a similar situation will arise.

While it's probably true that a decentralized network can never directly compete with the throughput of a centralized solution in this respect, there still needs to be an improved solution at the protocol level that's more thoroughly decentralized, if only as a fallback option.

Yeah the point is that storage is a non issue atm.

...
No but it was only a relatively short time in this thread before the above exchange. Shouldn't be hard to find.

The basic idea was to get a hash of the message mined into the blockchain (for example doing a tiny transaction and putting the hash of the message in the payment ID), and paying a fee. The mined hash is then honored by the p2p network to allow relaying that specific message for some limited period like two weeks. This doesn't give a direct incentive to the nodes but at least it minimizes the bloat on the blockchain and prevents cost-free spamming of the p2p.

When I get some time (been a premium lately) I'll check it out.

[luigi1111]

Lets not forget there are things called compression algorithm's as well if need be. I think the bloat bullshit is being BLOWN way out of proportion!

Yeah, we'll need this at the network level before we'll need it at the storage level, at least if comparing to Bitcoin. From what I've read, the higher priority for the Core devs hasn't been hard drive space, but network throughput. There needs to be various protocol solutions to maintain the network's decentralized state as much as possible and which don't rely upon a centralized relay network to propagate blocks sufficiently for the miners. The miners have already resorted to using a centralized block propagation system for profitability reasons. I suspect that as Monero becomes more popular, a similar situation will arise.

While it's probably true that a decentralized network can never directly compete with the throughput of a centralized solution in this respect, there still needs to be an improved solution at the protocol level that's more thoroughly decentralized, if only as a fallback option.

The BTC miners have been using the relay network for quite some time. Only more recently have decentralized solutions (Xthin/Compact Blocks) been released with comparable (but of course slightly worse) performance.

Of course these solutions are not compression, and there's little hope for any meaningful compression anyway.

[bucktotal]

The Monero StackExchange Is Now In Private Beta

http://monero.stackexchange.com/


"XMR Weekly Technical Analysis" - by bullbearanalytics

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4trzhb/xmr_weekly_technical_analysis/


"Trezoro: Trezor for Monero - The basics" - by dnaleor

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@dnaleor/trezoro-trezor-for-monero-the-basics

i would like to donate to the devs working on the Trezoro. can you please point me to the devs names or their groups' donation address?

thanks!

It's just NoodleDoodle's work. I can ask if he'd like to accept donations for it. He said he doesn't want to release the source for the current version with RingCT coming so soon^tm.

Donate [ 47AYtJeNKJjYNZLj71nBW938mbFSFwq1x4qVcNhBmdfUjhaqiGN7wqpVjH419eLYPzHFeF3TgzY2fDi vz5EyGBYUSbAXwed ]

(from his initial post at forum.getmonero.org)

https://forum.getmonero.org/4/academic-and-technical/2495/experimental-trezor-firmware-testing

thanks for the info.

keep up the great work!

[schnib]

Why is the transaction fee so high for Monero at Poloniex ?
It is 0.2 XMR which means ~35cent ?

[GingerAle]

Why is the transaction fee so high for Monero at Poloniex ?
It is 0.2 XMR which means ~35cent ?

because ppl mine straight to exchanges from pools so their accounts get filled with tiny inputs so when you go to withdraw large amounts, they have to use lots of inputs.

[schnib]

Ok thanks.
And why isn't this the same issue for other coins ?

[ReturnBits]

Buying moar...

[landomata]

Monero pumping well today!

https://coins.newbium.com/post/239-cryptocurrency-market-snapshot-nxt-ardor-mone

[Kewde]

No but it was only a relatively short time in this thread before the above exchange. Shouldn't be hard to find.

The basic idea was to get a hash of the message mined into the blockchain (for example doing a tiny transaction and putting the hash of the message in the payment ID), and paying a fee. The mined hash is then honored by the p2p network to allow relaying that specific message for some limited period like two weeks. This doesn't give a direct incentive to the nodes but at least it minimizes the bloat on the blockchain and prevents cost-free spamming of the p2p.

Hi,

That's the only right model to follow in my opinion. BitBay "time locks" funds but that doesn't properly stop constant spam attacks, it only limits them for a period of time.

On a side note, I don't know Monero's block interval but with a sufficiently low block interval you can create it such that off-chain messaging has a priority list.

A node would scan the transactions as they're coming in and process those that contain a fee for a message, the messages with those hashes get processed in the order of highest fee to lowest.
Any additional throughput, given sufficient disk space can be used to relay and store "free" messages.

In case of a spam attack or just too much traffic, those with a fee attached will be processed first.

--

Congratulations on the stackexchange by the way.

[Hueristic]

Monero pumping well today!

https://coins.newbium.com/post/239-cryptocurrency-market-snapshot-nxt-ardor-mone

Not a pump, by lack of choice people are realizing that XMR is a true store of value which is a aberration in CC.

[novag]

Monero pumping well today!

https://coins.newbium.com/post/239-cryptocurrency-market-snapshot-nxt-ardor-mone

Not a pump, by lack of choice people are realizing that XMR is a true store of value which is a aberration in CC.

I also think that this is not the pump and the natural growth that will last up to the intermediate value 0.01.

[canth]

I had thought that I was as exposed to XMR as I felt comfortable with and then this week's lower prices drew me in. I currently hold more than I've ever held...in for the long ride.

[Globb0]

BTC goes up and down, while XMR holds fairly stable in relation to BTC.

Not so good for flipping, or am I missing something?

[dEBRUYNE]

BTC goes up and down, while XMR holds fairly stable in relation to BTC.

Not so good for flipping, or am I missing something?

Except for a (temporary) significant drop in USD value after the announcement of the Bitfinex hack it has been relatively stable fiat wise, see:

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/?symbol=XMRBTC*BTCUSD

P.S. These posts are better fitted in the speculation thread.

[dEBRUYNE]

0MQ development update

https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/2564/0mq-by-tewinget?page=&noscroll=1#post-5150

[dEBRUYNE]

Crossposts from Reddit & Twitter


Bitmono kaj blokĉenoj - KernPunkto podcast - Monero mentioned @ 1:12:20

https://kern.punkto.info/2016/08/03/kp086-bitmono-kaj-blokcxenoj/


StackMonero Twitter Feed

https://twitter.com/StackMonero


Trezoro: Trezor for Monero - Tips&Tricks

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@dnaleor/trezoro-trezor-for-monero-tips-and-tricks


Zcash Delays Untraceable Cryptocurrency for Additional Audits

http://www.coindesk.com/zcash-delays-genesis-block-cryptocurrency-audites/


Understanding Monero Cryptography, Privacy -- Introduction

https://steemit.com/monero/@luigi1111/understanding-monero-cryptography-privacy-introduction


Honigdachs – 08 (Spezial) – Privacy & Monero

https://coinspondent.de/2016/07/08/honigdachs-8-spezial-privacy/


Fluffypony's slides from his "Blockchains - A New Hype" presentation that he gave to bankers at the Thales User Group

https://cloud.getmonero.org/index.php/s/gFLjnZ40Oo14kY5

[Globb0]

Yeah sorry, all these threads are like old friends. 

[Hueristic]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-07/first-bitcoin-bail-all-bitfinex-users-lose-36-shared-loss-after-historic-hack

demonstrated once again the biggest risk with digital currencies: despite claims to the contrary, outside hacks remain a key threat and risk to anyone holding

WHAT FUD on all CC this statement is!