Bitcoin or Gold? What would you pick?

[Dabs]

By comparison, Bitcoin has zero use value.

I can use it to buy stuff, what are you talking about?

[deisik]

While it may not be accurate to say that gold has "absolute" value, it clearly does have "use" value. By that I mean it can be made it into jewelry, used in dental work, gold plating has a variety of uses, including electronics.

By comparison, Bitcoin has zero use value.

Wrong for obvious reasons. Bitcoin's use value is lying in its being a currency, i.e with a currency you can pay for dental work, buy jewelry and electronics, and, yes, buy gold too. Though Bitcoin is a would-be currency right now. 

[botany]

While it may not be accurate to say that gold has "absolute" value, it clearly does have "use" value. By that I mean it can be made it into jewelry, used in dental work, gold plating has a variety of uses, including electronics.

By comparison, Bitcoin has zero use value.

Wrong for obvious reasons. Bitcoin' use value is lying in its being a currency, i.e with a currency you can pay for dental work, buy jewelry and electronics, and, yes, buy gold too. Though Bitcoin is a would-be currency right now. 

He is talking about intrinsic value. i.e. if it wasn't used as a currency, are there any other uses for it? If yes, what is the value that can be attributed for those uses?

[whysosweet]

I have invested 70% of may savings in bitcoins, and the remaining 30% in gold.

[Decksperiment]

Gold, cause I can trade it in the street no questions asked.

[deisik]

While it may not be accurate to say that gold has "absolute" value, it clearly does have "use" value. By that I mean it can be made it into jewelry, used in dental work, gold plating has a variety of uses, including electronics.

By comparison, Bitcoin has zero use value.

Wrong for obvious reasons. Bitcoin' use value is lying in its being a currency, i.e with a currency you can pay for dental work, buy jewelry and electronics, and, yes, buy gold too. Though Bitcoin is a would-be currency right now. 

He is talking about intrinsic value. i.e. if it wasn't used as a currency, are there any other uses for it? If yes, what is the value that can be attributed for those uses?

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value" since all value is subjective, whether something is suitable for just one use or for many uses simultaneously. Actually, these different uses may interfere with each other, that's one of the reasons why gold nowadays is not used as a currency...

[crydov]

i like both of them

[Wexlike]

If given a choice to walk away with either Bitcoin or gold of equivalent value, what would you pick?

Asians and Westerners were asked in Taipei in Chinese and English if they would take Bitcoin or gold home with them that day, and the answer might surprise you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6GiC8dqN9A

We just shot a video outside the Taipei 101 skyscraper area here and gave people a chance to answer if they would walk away with either Bitcoin or gold- and why.

If you were approached and were offered the same deal, would you walk away with Bitcoin or gold in your pocket, and why???

I think everyone should say bitcoin, in the end bitcoin is the reason we are lurking in this forum. It is the better alternative to gold. The mainstream just lacks to understand it for now - we are all early adopters.

[botany]

While it may not be accurate to say that gold has "absolute" value, it clearly does have "use" value. By that I mean it can be made it into jewelry, used in dental work, gold plating has a variety of uses, including electronics.

By comparison, Bitcoin has zero use value.

Wrong for obvious reasons. Bitcoin' use value is lying in its being a currency, i.e with a currency you can pay for dental work, buy jewelry and electronics, and, yes, buy gold too. Though Bitcoin is a would-be currency right now. 

He is talking about intrinsic value. i.e. if it wasn't used as a currency, are there any other uses for it? If yes, what is the value that can be attributed for those uses?

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value" since all value is subjective, whether something is suitable for just one use or for many uses simultaneously. Actually, these different uses may interfere with each other, that's one of the reasons why gold nowadays is not used as a currency...

Intrinsic value is a concept. If something is suitable for multiple uses, then the intrinsic value would be related to the use that maximizes value.

[InwardContour]

I would say bitcoin but I like to mix up things so my answer is: bitcoins and gold, but with prevalence of the first ones.

[deisik]

While it may not be accurate to say that gold has "absolute" value, it clearly does have "use" value. By that I mean it can be made it into jewelry, used in dental work, gold plating has a variety of uses, including electronics.

By comparison, Bitcoin has zero use value.

Wrong for obvious reasons. Bitcoin' use value is lying in its being a currency, i.e with a currency you can pay for dental work, buy jewelry and electronics, and, yes, buy gold too. Though Bitcoin is a would-be currency right now. 

He is talking about intrinsic value. i.e. if it wasn't used as a currency, are there any other uses for it? If yes, what is the value that can be attributed for those uses?

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value" since all value is subjective, whether something is suitable for just one use or for many uses simultaneously. Actually, these different uses may interfere with each other, that's one of the reasons why gold nowadays is not used as a currency...

Intrinsic value is a concept. If something is suitable for multiple uses, then the intrinsic value would be related to the use that maximizes value.

Okay, now try to explain to me this concept in your own words (as you understand it). Take gold as an example...

[blackaim18]

both?

[botany]

While it may not be accurate to say that gold has "absolute" value, it clearly does have "use" value. By that I mean it can be made it into jewelry, used in dental work, gold plating has a variety of uses, including electronics.

By comparison, Bitcoin has zero use value.

Wrong for obvious reasons. Bitcoin' use value is lying in its being a currency, i.e with a currency you can pay for dental work, buy jewelry and electronics, and, yes, buy gold too. Though Bitcoin is a would-be currency right now. 

He is talking about intrinsic value. i.e. if it wasn't used as a currency, are there any other uses for it? If yes, what is the value that can be attributed for those uses?

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value" since all value is subjective, whether something is suitable for just one use or for many uses simultaneously. Actually, these different uses may interfere with each other, that's one of the reasons why gold nowadays is not used as a currency...

Intrinsic value is a concept. If something is suitable for multiple uses, then the intrinsic value would be related to the use that maximizes value.

Okay, now try to explain to me this concept in your own words (as you understand it). Take gold as an example...

No problem - Gold currently trades at $1300/ounce. But let us assume that it is not being used as a store of value.

Consider the following uses
Gold finds use in industrial applications - If gold costs less than $800/ounce, it would find vast applications in some particular industry. If it is beyond that, people start using silver and demand decreases.

Gold finds use in teeth fillings - Let us say, if gold costs less than $700/ounce, a lot of people would prefer to have gold fillings. At higher prices people go in for other replacements.

In this scenario, even if gold is not looked at as a medium of exchange/store of value, it has other applications. The 'intrinsic' value is $800/ounce (the maximum price it can command in other applications)

[STT]

He is talking about intrinsic value. i.e. if it wasn't used as a currency, are there any other uses for it? If yes, what is the value that can be attributed for those uses?

BTC does have a very small intrinsic use or value which is to carry secure messages.  I think this is possible, to securely encrypt a message on the blockchain that cannot be interfered with or compromised like a normal document.
Im not sure why people would value that especially but it is fairly unique to do, though I not sure its timeless as we may all just stop bothering with BTC network one day for some reason.  Where as destroying gold is very hard to do and its use is much more applicable or common

I dont think either should be dismissed as worthless but the easiest way to value a product is cost of production.   We just wont bother making any more if we arent paid our costs.  Long term thats true, gold is related to the oil price as so much energy is required to first recover it, refine and then smelt to a high purity

Some think gold could can fall back to 200 but more obvious to people should be, do you think oil will go back to 20 dollars a barrel ?   Realisitically that is just a dream and we know it and you cant expect gold to get cheaper every year.  Can the same apply to BTC as it is also energy related to a lesser extent; this does rely on its usage as the paramount crypto currency, I dont think we'll opt to have none at all now we got one

[botany]

He is talking about intrinsic value. i.e. if it wasn't used as a currency, are there any other uses for it? If yes, what is the value that can be attributed for those uses?

BTC does have a very small intrinsic use or value which is to carry secure messages.  I think this is possible, to securely encrypt a message on the blockchain that cannot be interfered with or compromised like a normal document.
Im not sure why people would value that especially but it is fairly unique to do, though I not sure its timeless as we may all just stop bothering with BTC network one day for some reason.  Where as destroying gold is very hard to do and its use is much more applicable or common

I dont think either should be dismissed as worthless but the easiest way to value a product is cost of production.   We just wont bother making any more if we arent paid our costs.  Long term thats true, gold is related to the oil price as so much energy is required to first recover it, refine and then smelt to a high purity

Some think gold could can fall back to 200 but more obvious to people should be, do you think oil will go back to 20 dollars a barrel ?   Realisitically that is just a dream and we know it and you cant expect gold to get cheaper every year.  Can the same apply to BTC as it is also energy related to a lesser extent; this does rely on its usage as the paramount crypto currency, I dont think we'll opt to have none at all now we got one

Yes, even in the bitcoin forum we can prove ownership of accounts by signing a message from a bitcoin address. So that could be an intrinsic value for bitcoin.

In the case of oil, cost of production is a good approximate for the floor price because people will stop producing oil if it drops below that price. However, gold and bitcoins are different. Oil is consumed, and so demand is satisfied only by fresh production. In the case of gold/bitcoins, once they are produced they are always available in the market.

For eg - if the cost of gold production is $500/ounce, gold prices could fall to $300 over the long term and stay at that price. All it means is that gold mines would shut down and we would be content with circulating the gold that has already been mined. Such a scenario might not happen with oil.

[STT]

We have that squeeze happening right now believe it or not, 1300 dollars for an ounce is not profitable for some mines to continue.   So we do have declining gold production in the world I think, time that together with South Africa scaling back its spectacular unique source of gold over the decades and gold is not as plentiful as it could be.

It does mean alot as gold already mined is not being circulated enough I think, for example we have Fort Knox reserves just doing nothing there while more money is being produced.  Yet we are to believe the restricted source of gold is to decline as a ratio vs dollars.   The major point I really wanted to make is world GDP or world population even is growing, so to say what we have is enough to satisfy future markets is not correct I think.
If we were referring to food, we'd not accept this as true; its fairly obvious we will need more food for more people in our continually growing world.  That is a consumable good I take your point but it is more easily produced and not a one off event as gold represents or bitcoin claims in its 21m only tagline :p

The baseline is that bitcoin fulfils a growing demand for global currency unrestricted and reliable.  If I didnt believe this was a growth market I'd not be here,   We cannot make do with what we have and printing is a fallacy

[deisik]

While it may not be accurate to say that gold has "absolute" value, it clearly does have "use" value. By that I mean it can be made it into jewelry, used in dental work, gold plating has a variety of uses, including electronics.

By comparison, Bitcoin has zero use value.

Wrong for obvious reasons. Bitcoin' use value is lying in its being a currency, i.e with a currency you can pay for dental work, buy jewelry and electronics, and, yes, buy gold too. Though Bitcoin is a would-be currency right now. 

He is talking about intrinsic value. i.e. if it wasn't used as a currency, are there any other uses for it? If yes, what is the value that can be attributed for those uses?

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value" since all value is subjective, whether something is suitable for just one use or for many uses simultaneously. Actually, these different uses may interfere with each other, that's one of the reasons why gold nowadays is not used as a currency...

Intrinsic value is a concept. If something is suitable for multiple uses, then the intrinsic value would be related to the use that maximizes value.

Okay, now try to explain to me this concept in your own words (as you understand it). Take gold as an example...

No problem - Gold currently trades at $1300/ounce. But let us assume that it is not being used as a store of value.

Consider the following uses
Gold finds use in industrial applications - If gold costs less than $800/ounce, it would find vast applications in some particular industry. If it is beyond that, people start using silver and demand decreases.

Gold finds use in teeth fillings - Let us say, if gold costs less than $700/ounce, a lot of people would prefer to have gold fillings. At higher prices people go in for other replacements.

In this scenario, even if gold is not looked at as a medium of exchange/store of value, it has other applications. The 'intrinsic' value is $800/ounce (the maximum price it can command in other applications)

I got your point, but I wouldn't call this value "intrinsic" since it varies with each use (subtracted or added) and is very misleading. Besides that, different people use this term in different meanings. Personally, I thought about the gold qualities and properties which are inherent to it that make it valuable to people...

[boumalo]

We have that squeeze happening right now believe it or not, 1300 dollars for an ounce is not profitable for some mines to continue.   So we do have declining gold production in the world I think, time that together with South Africa scaling back its spectacular unique source of gold over the decades and gold is not as plentiful as it could be.

It does mean alot as gold already mined is not being circulated enough I think, for example we have Fort Knox reserves just doing nothing there while more money is being produced.  Yet we are to believe the restricted source of gold is to decline as a ratio vs dollars.   The major point I really wanted to make is world GDP or world population even is growing, so to say what we have is enough to satisfy future markets is not correct I think.
If we were referring to food, we'd not accept this as true; its fairly obvious we will need more food for more people in our continually growing world.  That is a consumable good I take your point but it is more easily produced and not a one off event as gold represents or bitcoin claims in its 21m only tagline :p

The baseline is that bitcoin fulfils a growing demand for global currency unrestricted and reliable.  If I didnt believe this was a growth market I'd not be here,   We cannot make do with what we have and printing is a fallacy

Mining is difficult and costly, inflation of the cost of mining has been tremendous; there is a so called recovery and heavy manipulation of the Gold market that push prices lower or to be more precise limit the raise of the price (price has been rising every year expect one in more than a decade and has rise this year even if the investment banks as GS or FED members were predicting the price to go down a lot)

[bernard75]

They simple make less available. Cant happen to BTC, we all know whats the limit and nobody controls all of it.

[66tbird]

Interesting view points.  I've been a stacker for decades and can't come close to linking the two other than a ratio of value between them. Bitcoin has transaction convenience and for me that's about it.  Gold (my gold/silver) stays out of the system and therefore my wealth is too.  I doubt very much if my btc  transactions are truly anonymous.

Carrington events have happened thousands of times in earths history but only given a name 1859.  We (earth) were lucky two years ago when a very extreme event missed earth by a few days. (rotation of the sun etc.etc.)  If luck wouldn't of been with us we wouldn't be on this forum now. Or would any electronic transaction of any kind happened from that day till ??  But the couple of days of 24hr continuous Aurora Borealis seen from any and everywhere would of be damn cool.

Btc and gold can both be lost/stolen. For some btc maybe easier to possess than physical items. While the cogs of the world are in sync btc is a convenient medium. But I'll take gold over btc if offered just in case.