[ANN] Syscoin - Business on the Blockchain - LAUNCHED!

[Yuzu]

Thank you for updating, Dano.  I really appreciate the frequent updates from the devs.

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[Pmalek]

How is the sale going? Did you brake 600btc?

[danosphere]

Sorry we haven't posted more but we are very busy with our hands in many different projects related to the Syscoin launch. 

I wanted to expand a bit on the question regarding Cloak v Syscoin. After reviewing their whitepaper the differences are numerous. I want to be clear- I applaud the Cloak dev team for really doing something with Cloak rather than just playing with things like the PoW or if its PoW/PoS or not. Innovative teams are what will ultimately push altcoins to big success; competition between coins in this regard is a very healthy thing. Remember we [Syscoin] are working on escrow and although it won't be ready for launch, I can call out how it differs from Cloak's proposed implementation without exposing the unique aspects/value of our implementation prior to launching it...

Escrow: The Cloakcoin escrow implementation looks similar to that of BitHalo, operating on the principle of mutually assured destruction almost identically down the 2x buyer fee. This fee could serve as a reasonable barrier for most buyers- imagine buying a yacht and needing to have 2x the cost to leverage escrow. While Syscoin also leverages the principle of mutually assured destruction the proposed implementation of escrow we're working with is more flexible and less imposing on buyers. Syscoin's also allows for buyer/seller dispute resolution.

Anonymous Transactions: Cloakcoin has/is working to improve (PoSA) their anonymous transaction system. Syscoin does not currently have plans to implement anonymous transactions natively.

Decentralized Marketplace: The Cloakcoin marketplace as described by the whitepaper features "Self Regulation & Spam Prevention (OneJury)". The whitepaper goes on to describe a system which tries to put in place hurdles to "pollute" (defined as spam or morally objectionable listings) the system whereby users manually review marketplace listings to determine if they can be listed using an additional voting system (OneJury). This introduces a wait time for sellers (11 votes per my understanding) and also raises questions as to what different people in different locales will "allow" even in a jury-like format. Additionally, no system is infallible and by introducing the human element via "voting" it seems incongruous with the philosophy of a "trustless" escrow.  Cloakcoin listings also require some rather specific data (all fields may not be required for each listing) and only last for 7 days before being removed. This brings up the question of how someone would run a persistent market using such a system.

Syscoin offers aren't bound by such a review/approval system that might ultimately block or delay users from listing items of their choosing or running private marketplaces and also allows sellers to more flexibly control the duration of their listing as well as its availability for purchase.

Decentralized Unique Key/Value System: Syscoin features a name/value storage system which can also be used for receiving payments. This allows for the storage of very small bits of data using an easy to remember alias (ie: danosphere.wallet). If the data stored behind an alias is a Syscoin address, the alias can be used to receive funds. This is almost identical to Namecoin's name alias system. Cloakcoin does not currently offer a key/value storage facility.

Ratings: Cloakcoin has an optional ratings system that parallels Syscoin's. It is good because it does stick with the philosophy of "trustless" escrow in providing objective metrics and then allowing the buyer (or developer in the case of Syscoin and possibly Cloak as well) to determine the "reputation" based on those factors. Because Syscoin's escrow implementation is different Syscoin may offer an additional metric or two but ultimately the "rating data" would be very similar.

Fees: In Cloakcoin it is unclear what happens with the fees for all of these features (burned? recycled? sent somewhere?). In Syscoin they are recycled back to miners using 2 moving averages as described in the overview whitepaper.

Data Storage: Syscoin offers a data storage feature allowing the storage of any type of data up to 250kb on the blockchain in a decentralized manner. Multiple "data aliases" can be used to store larger pieces of data. Cloakcoin does not currently offer such a data storage facility.

Mining: Cloakcoin is an x13 PoW coin. Syscoin is a Scrypt PoW coin which is universally merge-mineable with any other Scrypt PoW coin. Neither coin implements staking although Cloakcoin plans to offer additional rewards to users through an upcoming "Proof of Stake Anonymity" feature.

Also something to note is that the storage of Cloakcoin marketplace listings: "Listing Info Stored in database using existing Bitoin Database Library on clients that opt-in. " It's unclear if this is the blockchain itself or some layer outside of the blockchain which would raise larger questions imo. In Syscoin all data related to all features is stored on the blockchain itself. Cloakcoin Escrow seems to be stored in blocks similar to Syscoin- the onemarket whitepaper doesn't expand on the storage aspect of escrow but PoSA diagrams I've seen seem to represent escrow as being stored on the blockchain.


Hope this information is helpful to those who have asked questions about Syscoin vs. Cloakcoin. Definitely some cool stuff going on over @Cloakcoin. 

[suchnekky]

I dont understand where you guys are aiming with this... the point of being decentralized is so know one can shut it down. The only reason you wouldnt want a market place shut down us because its not quite legal. Yet not implementing anon? I dont understand your approach. Did you guys think this through? Or just get too excited about adding features?

[danosphere]

I dont understand where you guys are aiming with this... the point of being decentralized is so know one can shut it down. The only reason you wouldnt want a market place shut down us because its not quite legal. Yet not implementing anon? I dont understand your approach. Did you guys think this through? Or just get too excited about adding features?

We thought about this quite thoroughly. The goal is to replace major, centralized financial systems with decentralized, cheaper alternative infrastructures. If you think the only point of decentralization is so no one can shut it down you should broaden your scope a bit. Its also so no one party can control the availability of certain services. Sure people may use Syscoin to list "not quite legal" items- that is up to them and not for us to control/manage as its a p2p system. The main target is those larger systems, implementing anon natively/a system that natively encourages full anonymity would lead to never even being considered as replacements for these mainstream systems.

Developers can add anon in the form of mixing and other methods to obscure transaction origination if they so choose within Syscoin.

[suchnekky]

I dont understand where you guys are aiming with this... the point of being decentralized is so know one can shut it down. The only reason you wouldnt want a market place shut down us because its not quite legal. Yet not implementing anon? I dont understand your approach. Did you guys think this through? Or just get too excited about adding features?

We thought about this quite thoroughly. The goal is to replace major, centralized financial systems with decentralized, cheaper alternative infrastructures. If you think the only point of decentralization is so no one can shut it down you should broaden your scope a bit. Its also so no one party can control the availability of certain services. Sure people may use Syscoin to list "not quite legal" items- that is up to them and not for us to control/manage as its a p2p system. The main target is those larger systems, implementing anon natively/a system that natively encourages full anonymity would lead to never even being considered as replacements for these mainstream systems.

Developers can add anon in the form of mixing and other methods to obscure transaction origination if they so choose within Syscoin.

but if your aiming a major centralized financial systems, and aiming to replace, the blockchain will bloat in 6 months with that amount of pressure, and be instantly 100gb before you can even breathe. i don't think you guys have done the math, with millions of users and marketplaces, the blockchain will be simply to large, i know you dont want to think about it now, because once you get your BTC then the deals done, but what about the future of syscoin, do you think people want to download a 9terrabyte blockchain in 3 years filled with irrelevant unused data? like sure bitcoin is only 30gb, but thats from sending simple transactions that consist of a few bytes, with adding the feature to upload 256kb. if 4000 people try out your blockchain and upload a 256kb picture to test it, boom you have an extra 1gb on your blockchain. do that every day and times by 100 and you can see it adds up rather fast. i cant stress enough, you need to work on something to erase irrelevant old data in the blockchain, or your coin will fail, but that wont matter will it, as you will have your BTC.

there needs to be a separate chain for data and marketplace and it needs to be wiped every 6months or sooner.

[mwheeleruk]

The topic of "Bloating" on the blockchain has been discussed a few times, do a search onto the forum for 'Coderboo' but to also reference a post HERE can be of some reading knowledge into the topic.

Coderboo checks this topic on a daily basis - hes the primary programmer so he should be able to reference this / quote this for you shortly.

[suchnekky]

The topic of "Bloating" on the blockchain has been discussed a few times, do a search onto the forum for 'Coderboo' but to also reference a post HERE can be of some reading knowledge into the topic.

Coderboo checks this topic on a daily basis - hes the primary programmer so he should be able to reference this / quote this for you shortly.

this doesn't answer anything. it basically says because its a market place, its justified that the blockchain will be massive. what does this say for long term future of syscoin? you have failed before you even started if you continue with this mindset. yous aren't bringing anything new to the table here. ebay is alerady a non anonymous market place. i fail to see what usuable and long term functional features we are buying with 1500btc. escrow however sounds great, bring something new to the table, blow us away.

i am invested myself, but i fail to see innovation, i see alot of tacky marketing tactics and flashy designs but no hard coding or evidence of progress. and with this "coderboo" being anonymous, is that the plan, he runs away with the btc and nobody knows who he is because he is anonymous and you cant reveal his name because he is a fucking NASA scientist or some shit?

[TheMilkman]

Main question is: why would anyone NOT invest into it? It looks like sure winner to me!

[awais3344]

 you should not allow hosting of images as in result it will be a mess of blockchain with massive size.

why not just use text/html pages that would expire and get deleted within lets say 5 months. pics can be embedded by hosting them somewhere else not the blockchain.

[Crypto_Enthusiast]

Couple of questions for the DEV team, if you would be so kind:

1.) Reference the hard wallets sent in the post - are these NEEDED to access your wallet? Or can you access your funds right away without them?

2.) An earlier post said that escrow will not be available at launch - do you have an ETA when it WILL be available? From my understanding, SYS was good to go from launch date..

Thank you

[dadingsda]

Main question is: why would anyone NOT invest into it? It looks like sure winner to me!

Because it just looks like a winner. But nobody knows....

[sidhujag]

The topic of "Bloating" on the blockchain has been discussed a few times, do a search onto the forum for 'Coderboo' but to also reference a post HERE can be of some reading knowledge into the topic.

Coderboo checks this topic on a daily basis - hes the primary programmer so he should be able to reference this / quote this for you shortly.

this doesn't answer anything. it basically says because its a market place, its justified that the blockchain will be massive. what does this say for long term future of syscoin? you have failed before you even started if you continue with this mindset. yous aren't bringing anything new to the table here. ebay is alerady a non anonymous market place. i fail to see what usuable and long term functional features we are buying with 1500btc. escrow however sounds great, bring something new to the table, blow us away.

i am invested myself, but i fail to see innovation, i see alot of tacky marketing tactics and flashy designs but no hard coding or evidence of progress. and with this "coderboo" being anonymous, is that the plan, he runs away with the btc and nobody knows who he is because he is anonymous and you cant reveal his name because he is a fucking NASA scientist or some shit?

Read some of my posts in the thread
about it. They try to solve with fees amd
thin clients but bloat is ok aslong as its under the increase of efficiency of storage space.

Expanding a bit anyone using value added services will be businesses (supernodes) rest will be thin clients storing on a tx database conventionally. Because supernodes are thought to be a bit
centralizing atleast until business takes off merge mining helps in this regard to stop attacks (51% and retargeting)

[snipsnoop]

The topic of "Bloating" on the blockchain has been discussed a few times, do a search onto the forum for 'Coderboo' but to also reference a post HERE can be of some reading knowledge into the topic.

Coderboo checks this topic on a daily basis - hes the primary programmer so he should be able to reference this / quote this for you shortly.

this doesn't answer anything. it basically says because its a market place, its justified that the blockchain will be massive. what does this say for long term future of syscoin? you have failed before you even started if you continue with this mindset. yous aren't bringing anything new to the table here. ebay is alerady a non anonymous market place. i fail to see what usuable and long term functional features we are buying with 1500btc. escrow however sounds great, bring something new to the table, blow us away.

i am invested myself, but i fail to see innovation, i see alot of tacky marketing tactics and flashy designs but no hard coding or evidence of progress. and with this "coderboo" being anonymous, is that the plan, he runs away with the btc and nobody knows who he is because he is anonymous and you cant reveal his name because he is a fucking NASA scientist or some shit?

In relation to coderboo please check the OP..

Just to be clear, you wont be able to insta bloat the blockchain. There are fees involved and these fees will put limits on how fast the the blockchain grows. We are looking at ways of cleaning up old expired data and this will be part of the future roadmap along with other interesting features.

[snipsnoop]

Couple of questions for the DEV team, if you would be so kind:

1.) Reference the hard wallets sent in the post - are these NEEDED to access your wallet? Or can you access your funds right away without them?

2.) An earlier post said that escrow will not be available at launch - do you have an ETA when it WILL be available? From my understanding, SYS was good to go from launch date..

Thank you

No, they are not needed. You will still get access via wallet.dat or keypairs for import (Depends on what you selected) .
Syscoin is feature complete, however we are working on escrow as an additional feature. This was not part of the original feature set and ETA is when its done . Let get the coin launched first.

[Soupulou]

This is a biiiiiig project,i will do a reserch job then decide invest it or not

[S3MKi]

how much is total investment?

[KonstantinosM]

I'm interested to see how big the blockchain will get.

What I like is that the features aren't light but they aren't really heavy either so this is a great experiment for crypto and how far we can push p2p technology today.

I invested a 0.25 BTC, and I would say that everyone should get a little piece of this coin, however since it's high risk I wouldn't sink a lot of what I have in it.

I think the devs are really reasonable and responsive which is something I like. 1500 BTC is a good number, it's not too low, and it's not high at all. This shows that there are many idealists in this team. A greedy team with a coin with all these features ready would premine way more than 2% for themselves, each member of the team gets something like 0.34%. There have been alts where the majority of coins have been instamined by a single person.

I agree with all the numbers so far, the market cap, the reward schedule and the pre-mine which is a first for me for a launching crypto. I'm also interested to see what people will do with this.

An extra feature I'd like is a built in loan system (for starting bussineses) where you choose a percentage rate and a timetable and multiple people invest in a loan.

It would work well with the alias system.

[mightname]

how much is total investment?

The syscoin ICO price is too high! No people are interested in it now.

I hate ICO. I hate fixed price. ICO is very risky to investors.

Please IPO!

[profitofthegods]

An extra feature I'd like is a built in loan system (for starting bussineses) where you choose a percentage rate and a timetable and multiple people invest in a loan.

It would work well with the alias system.

This would be great, but its no small task - you need at least some kind of credit rating system for it to really work well.