Ebay/Paypal's ridiculous fees

[ranlo]

This is a perfect example of why bitcoin should advance as a payment system. I understand that companies need to make money... but really!?!

This is never going to happen until it's easy enough for grandmas to understand the technology and utilize it. The amount of distrust there is is holding it back.

People didnt know at first how to use banks and credit cards, but they will learn in time... I may be delusional but I can see grandma operating a bitcoin wallet in 10 yearsish

If people can create the technology in such a way that no specifics are really wanted, I think this is doable. The issue is most people that hear about Bitcoin want to know how it works, why it's safe, etc. And most of them don't have any comprehension as to what's going on so it leads to more confusion and ultimately denial of the service.

Credit cards are at a stage where it's so simple you just swipe your card, sign (if needed) and pay the bill. If we could get Bitcoin to that same level, I think it'd help.

QR codes are making bitcoins more and more like credit cards. Now you just scan the code with your phone and voila, you can send a payment to a specific address!

True but if I go to the store and have $150 in credit, I can buy $150 in stuff with no questions asked.

If I go to the store right now with 1 BTC ($500 for ease) and grab $500 in stuff, there's no telling if I'll even have that much by the time I'm checking out. I could magically only have $350 (crashed) or I could buy all my stuff and still have $300 (boost). These are major problems.

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[nkocevar]

This is a perfect example of why bitcoin should advance as a payment system. I understand that companies need to make money... but really!?!

This is never going to happen until it's easy enough for grandmas to understand the technology and utilize it. The amount of distrust there is is holding it back.

People didnt know at first how to use banks and credit cards, but they will learn in time... I may be delusional but I can see grandma operating a bitcoin wallet in 10 yearsish

If people can create the technology in such a way that no specifics are really wanted, I think this is doable. The issue is most people that hear about Bitcoin want to know how it works, why it's safe, etc. And most of them don't have any comprehension as to what's going on so it leads to more confusion and ultimately denial of the service.

Credit cards are at a stage where it's so simple you just swipe your card, sign (if needed) and pay the bill. If we could get Bitcoin to that same level, I think it'd help.

QR codes are making bitcoins more and more like credit cards. Now you just scan the code with your phone and voila, you can send a payment to a specific address!

True but if I go to the store and have $150 in credit, I can buy $150 in stuff with no questions asked.

If I go to the store right now with 1 BTC ($500 for ease) and grab $500 in stuff, there's no telling if I'll even have that much by the time I'm checking out. I could magically only have $350 (crashed) or I could buy all my stuff and still have $300 (boost). These are major problems.

You are right there... but normal market changes happen over hours. Also you can implement a text system where if the market price goes up or down more than3%, it will notify you.

[TheButterZone]

List an item in http://www.ebay.com/sch/Test-Auctions-/14112/i.html - pay no fees.

But inst that against the terms and conditions... and also i browsed around and found no "real" items. Pretty sure I wouldnt trust that... but nice try xD

If you didn't find mine, try again.

[solitude]

I seriously hope someone makes a quality bitcoin auction website because it is seriously needed at this point in time...

[Duetschpire]

I seriously hope someone makes a quality bitcoin auction website because it is seriously needed at this point in time...

Hi,

Just wondring what you mean by "quality". In all seriousness as we are working to meet the community's expectations and what they would want to see from a market leader.

[fenenef]

eBay are out of it's mind.
I wanted to sell a projector, with fees + paypal fees, I'd have to pay more than 130 EUR. No way.

The worst is, that they are in an almost monopol situation, raising the fees, max fees every year.

[alistar]

Uh, talk about rape in fees. Its why I try to sell on craigslist first if anything get pure cash.

Theres no bitcoin auction type sites right now? its off topic besides ebay, but I just noticed this right now.

As for the paypal comment, theres not much we can do. So bad too, cause ebay recently got hacked right. lol.

[u9y42]

Uh, talk about rape in fees. Its why I try to sell on craigslist first if anything get pure cash.

Theres no bitcoin auction type sites right now? its off topic besides ebay, but I just noticed this right now.

As for the paypal comment, theres not much we can do. So bad too, cause ebay recently got hacked right. lol.

Just 2 posts back from your post, you have someone from one such auction site: CryptoThrift. Now, I haven't personally used them, and a few people are complaining about the looks and feel of the site, but there definitely are a couple of these sites around.

[paulthetafy]

Uh, talk about rape in fees. Its why I try to sell on craigslist first if anything get pure cash.

Theres no bitcoin auction type sites right now? its off topic besides ebay, but I just noticed this right now.

As for the paypal comment, theres not much we can do. So bad too, cause ebay recently got hacked right. lol.

Just 2 posts back from your post, you have someone from one such auction site: CryptoThrift. Now, I haven't personally used them, and a few people are complaining about the looks and feel of the site, but there definitely are a couple of these sites around.

Thanks for reiterating the existence of CryptoThrift.  We openly acknowledge that our look and feel isn't the best (but we are working on it constantly!) but our core features are solid and we try our damn hardest to offer great customer service.  We had well over a million page views last month too (and climbing!) so we have plenty of traffic for sellers.  Please drop us an email with features that you would like to see, and we'll do our best to get them on our roadmap! 

[solitude]

Uh, talk about rape in fees. Its why I try to sell on craigslist first if anything get pure cash.

Theres no bitcoin auction type sites right now? its off topic besides ebay, but I just noticed this right now.

As for the paypal comment, theres not much we can do. So bad too, cause ebay recently got hacked right. lol.

Just 2 posts back from your post, you have someone from one such auction site: CryptoThrift. Now, I haven't personally used them, and a few people are complaining about the looks and feel of the site, but there definitely are a couple of these sites around.

Thanks for reiterating the existence of CryptoThrift.  We openly acknowledge that our look and feel isn't the best (but we are working on it constantly!) but our core features are solid and we try our damn hardest to offer great customer service.  We had well over a million page views last month too (and climbing!) so we have plenty of traffic for sellers.  Please drop us an email with features that you would like to see, and we'll do our best to get them on our roadmap!  

The most important thing as a buyer is seeing that someone I'm considering purchasing from has plenty of positive feedback.  Also possibly some kind of escrow if the seller screws me.  I'm personally not going to take a risk on a new seller.

The most important thing as a seller is knowing that the website isn't going to rip me off with ludicrous fees.  I also don't want a system like ebay where it's so retardedly biased against sellers.  When a buyer on ebay cries foul ebay bends over backwards to satisfy them.

[paulthetafy]

Uh, talk about rape in fees. Its why I try to sell on craigslist first if anything get pure cash.

Theres no bitcoin auction type sites right now? its off topic besides ebay, but I just noticed this right now.

As for the paypal comment, theres not much we can do. So bad too, cause ebay recently got hacked right. lol.

Just 2 posts back from your post, you have someone from one such auction site: CryptoThrift. Now, I haven't personally used them, and a few people are complaining about the looks and feel of the site, but there definitely are a couple of these sites around.

Thanks for reiterating the existence of CryptoThrift.  We openly acknowledge that our look and feel isn't the best (but we are working on it constantly!) but our core features are solid and we try our damn hardest to offer great customer service.  We had well over a million page views last month too (and climbing!) so we have plenty of traffic for sellers.  Please drop us an email with features that you would like to see, and we'll do our best to get them on our roadmap!  

The most important thing as a buyer is seeing that someone I'm considering purchasing from has plenty of positive feedback.  Also possibly some kind of escrow if the seller screws me.  I'm personally not going to take a risk on a new seller.

The most important thing as a seller is knowing that the website isn't going to rip me off with ludicrous fees.  I also don't want a system like ebay where it's so retardedly biased against sellers.  When a buyer on ebay cries foul ebay bends over backwards to satisfy them.

CryptoThrift has a feedback system and it is straightforward to see how many positive/neutral/negative feedbacks they have received (and you can drill in to see individual feedback comments).

Escrow is fully supported and for the time being it is mandatory for sellers to offer it - we may make it optional in future when we introduce seller verification (coming soon!).  Buyers pay 1% fee to use our escrow service and those funds remain in escrow until the buyer is happy with their purchase and releases them (or automatically 30 days after purchase if the buyer hasn't contacted us for a refund).  If the buyer is not happy and can provide good enough reasoning then we will refund the buyer.  However we try to remain unbiased and will favour sellers if the buyer doesn't provide enough evidence.  At the end of the day it is subjective, but it is the best that can be done.

In regards to fees, at the moment CryptoThrift charges 2.5% to sell, though we are planning on changing it to a tiered model in conjunction with introducing store fronts to cater for bulk sellers.  I should also add that for now 100% of all income goes back into furthering the site, either through funding development work for enhancements or paying for marketing/advertising to bring in more buyers and sellers. 

[Dr. Pepper]

I stopped selling on ebay long ago because of their fees. Wasnt worth selling most cheaper items at all.

[ranlo]

This is a perfect example of why bitcoin should advance as a payment system. I understand that companies need to make money... but really!?!

This is never going to happen until it's easy enough for grandmas to understand the technology and utilize it. The amount of distrust there is is holding it back.

People didnt know at first how to use banks and credit cards, but they will learn in time... I may be delusional but I can see grandma operating a bitcoin wallet in 10 yearsish

If people can create the technology in such a way that no specifics are really wanted, I think this is doable. The issue is most people that hear about Bitcoin want to know how it works, why it's safe, etc. And most of them don't have any comprehension as to what's going on so it leads to more confusion and ultimately denial of the service.

Credit cards are at a stage where it's so simple you just swipe your card, sign (if needed) and pay the bill. If we could get Bitcoin to that same level, I think it'd help.

QR codes are making bitcoins more and more like credit cards. Now you just scan the code with your phone and voila, you can send a payment to a specific address!

True but if I go to the store and have $150 in credit, I can buy $150 in stuff with no questions asked.

If I go to the store right now with 1 BTC ($500 for ease) and grab $500 in stuff, there's no telling if I'll even have that much by the time I'm checking out. I could magically only have $350 (crashed) or I could buy all my stuff and still have $300 (boost). These are major problems.

You are right there... but normal market changes happen over hours. Also you can implement a text system where if the market price goes up or down more than3%, it will notify you.

Let's try this a different way. There are tons of people who live paycheck to paycheck and have to borrow money when they accidentally go a little over. Now we're talking about fluctuations over an entire month. A decrease in value of 5% could make them unable to purchase food, pay utilities or rent, etc. An increase in 5% would leave a little left over, but it's still a gamble.

The fact is that until Bitcoin is stable, such that I know today my BTC is worth what it will be 90 days from now, it will never be a usable currency for most people. There is just too much risk in it.

[asmrozi]

They are indeed, ridiculous. Ebay/paypal is still #1 in buying stuff you need. So obv they rake seller because buyers will be there. I cant wait to see the decentralized ebay-like with crypto currencys as a payment method. CEO of ebay announced that they will accept BTC in a near future. Not sure when that future will be. They are already having a crypto currencys section to sell those. They charge a fixed rake and you cant complete the transaction directly with them, it just induces it. The price of the rake is high.

My numbers are saying 12-15% rake. If you become PowerSeller, you save 20% of that.

And paypal charges 2.5/3% for currency changes.

=
weeee

[Duetschpire]

This is a perfect example of why bitcoin should advance as a payment system. I understand that companies need to make money... but really!?!

This is never going to happen until it's easy enough for grandmas to understand the technology and utilize it. The amount of distrust there is is holding it back.

People didnt know at first how to use banks and credit cards, but they will learn in time... I may be delusional but I can see grandma operating a bitcoin wallet in 10 yearsish

If people can create the technology in such a way that no specifics are really wanted, I think this is doable. The issue is most people that hear about Bitcoin want to know how it works, why it's safe, etc. And most of them don't have any comprehension as to what's going on so it leads to more confusion and ultimately denial of the service.

Credit cards are at a stage where it's so simple you just swipe your card, sign (if needed) and pay the bill. If we could get Bitcoin to that same level, I think it'd help.

QR codes are making bitcoins more and more like credit cards. Now you just scan the code with your phone and voila, you can send a payment to a specific address!

True but if I go to the store and have $150 in credit, I can buy $150 in stuff with no questions asked.

If I go to the store right now with 1 BTC ($500 for ease) and grab $500 in stuff, there's no telling if I'll even have that much by the time I'm checking out. I could magically only have $350 (crashed) or I could buy all my stuff and still have $300 (boost). These are major problems.

You are right there... but normal market changes happen over hours. Also you can implement a text system where if the market price goes up or down more than3%, it will notify you.

Let's try this a different way. There are tons of people who live paycheck to paycheck and have to borrow money when they accidentally go a little over. Now we're talking about fluctuations over an entire month. A decrease in value of 5% could make them unable to purchase food, pay utilities or rent, etc. An increase in 5% would leave a little left over, but it's still a gamble.

The fact is that until Bitcoin is stable, such that I know today my BTC is worth what it will be 90 days from now, it will never be a usable currency for most people. There is just too much risk in it.

That's a fair point. But I believe there is a fix which does require some time but is already in the work.

We read yesterday that Blockchain.info does not have a Fiat bank account, even the CEO gets paid in Bitcoin. Other Bitcoin related sites and services such as CEX.io pay their support personals in Bitcoin as well.

The next big step is...

I go every 2nd Wednesday to a Bitcoin meetup and have few beers for Bitcoin (it bloody tastes so much better), but they way I pay in Bitcoin, through BitPos.me, is by the bartender converting the price of the beer $7 AUD to BTC. This is the only way it would actually work at this stage, until.. Somebody with big balls and deep pockets can say "Your beer will cost you 0.01 BTC, regardless of the conversion rate. We can see this happening already on Bitcoin sites and services when it comes to advertising. You pay a flat BTC price for an ad spot, regardless of the conversion rate.

In other words, until Bitcoin has its own ecosystem where it's completely independent from the Fiat system, this fluctuation will stay there. Might not be as volatile, but it will eventually get to the point of how gold trades against USD for example.

[nishtrip15]

Their fees is 4.4% + 0.40$ for my premier paypal account.

[Oldminer]

Word going round in banking circles is it was Paypal password's that were hacked recently - NOT ebay.

Ebay apparently took the wrap or 'covered' for Paypal so confidence in it as a payment system wouldnt be affected.

The source for this information I consider extremely reliable.

[solitude]

Word going round in banking circles is it was Paypal password's that were hacked recently - NOT ebay.

Ebay apparently took the wrap or 'covered' for Paypal so confidence in it as a payment system wouldnt be affected.

The source for this information I consider extremely reliable.

Your "trust" of -8 is such so bad do you really think anyone here believes what you say

[joeventyra]

Word going round in banking circles is it was Paypal password's that were hacked recently - NOT ebay.

Ebay apparently took the wrap or 'covered' for Paypal so confidence in it as a payment system wouldnt be affected.

The source for this information I consider extremely reliable.

Your "trust" of -8 is such so bad do you really think anyone here believes what you say

True that. Still the point is that both paypal and ebay are extremely insecure! And the fees of paypal are a f**king disaster

[Oldminer]

Word going round in banking circles is it was Paypal password's that were hacked recently - NOT ebay.

Ebay apparently took the wrap or 'covered' for Paypal so confidence in it as a payment system wouldnt be affected.

The source for this information I consider extremely reliable.

Your "trust" of -8 is such so bad do you really think anyone here believes what you say

You must be new here..either that or your just an outright idiot