rpietila Altcoin Observer

[aminorex]

I saw this on the Anoncoin thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227287.msg8828214#msg8828214

It sounds like their dev is getting close to integrating Zerocoin with Anoncoin. He says he'll have it ready in a month or two. How would Anoncoin/Zerocoin compare with Monero in terms of privacy and utility?

It would be irresponsible to speculate without details about what they are implementing, and how it is implemented.  I do not have those.

The original Zerocoin involved a very large blockchain, and was computationally intensive.  If it were similar, it would be subject to the same utility deficits and scaling bounds.  Transactions should be practically unlinkable and untracable, but I suspect ANC would operate in ZC and non-ZC modes (to deal with the limits of ZC), and depending on how the interface was implemented, this could create a large attack surface.  I would be loathe to transact in it until some substantive review.  

I own some ANC as a hedge -I'm not terribly concerned about it as a threat to XMR holdings, but it offers an alternative in case of a catastrophic XMR failure.  Lack of documentation and lack of visible active development teamwork concerns me.  My impression is that one guy (an activist) hired one guy (a technologist) and we get the result.  Kudos to both of them for their effort, but unless it gains a community, I don't see much value-add there.  I'd advise to watch the blockchain for signs of vitality.

You can consider it an earnest upgrade effort, or you can consider it a 1.25mm coin pre-mine.  That's a subjective call, I think.

[infofront]

I saw this on the Anoncoin thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227287.msg8828214#msg8828214

It sounds like their dev is getting close to integrating Zerocoin with Anoncoin. He says he'll have it ready in a month or two. How would Anoncoin/Zerocoin compare with Monero in terms of privacy and utility?

It would be irresponsible to speculate without details about what they are implementing, and how it is implemented.  I do not have those.

The original Zerocoin involved a very large blockchain, and was computationally intensive.  If it were similar, it would be subject to the same utility deficits and scaling bounds.  Transactions should be practically unlinkable and untracable, but I suspect ANC would operate in ZC and non-ZC modes (to deal with the limits of ZC), and depending on how the interface was implemented, this could create a large attack surface.  I would be loathe to transact in it until some substantive review.  

I own some ANC as a hedge -I'm not terribly concerned about it as a threat to XMR holdings, but it offers an alternative in case of a catastrophic XMR failure.  Lack of documentation and lack of visible active development teamwork concerns me.  My impression is that one guy (an activist) hired one guy (a technologist) and we get the result.  Kudos to both of them for their effort, but unless it gains a community, I don't see much value-add there.  I'd advise to watch the blockchain for signs of vitality.

You can consider it an earnest upgrade effort, or you can consider it a 1.25mm coin pre-mine.  That's a subjective call, I think.

I largely agree with all that. I'd also add that AnonCoin has been around since June 13, 2013, practically an eternity in the altcoin world, yet has little to show for it. There's no infrastructure to speak of. The community seems to be passionate, but passion doesn't create code. At the current rate, it would take ANC several years to get to the same place Monero has taken a few months to get to. That said, I have a few ANC too, "just in case."

[freebud]

I saw this on the Anoncoin thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227287.msg8828214#msg8828214

It sounds like their dev is getting close to integrating Zerocoin with Anoncoin. He says he'll have it ready in a month or two. How would Anoncoin/Zerocoin compare with Monero in terms of privacy and utility?

My understanding is that they implement the original Zerocoin protocol, and not Zerocash. The main reasons for doing so are that Zerocash requires a trusted third party to set up, and that the total money supply can't be known. But the original Zerocoin also have severe limitations, one is that it takes around 450ms to verify a single transaction, and  the other is that the protocol does not hide transaction amounts, only addresses.
Here are links to the ANC wiki about this:
https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Zerocash
https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Zerocoin
And the Zerocash article (which also tells about Zerocoin limitations): http://zerocash-project.org/media/pdf/zerocash-oakland2014.pdf

[orinoco]

Despite all the fuss about XBC's comments, IMO the chart looks pretty good.

Noteworthy elements:

Fib retracement is based on max open/close and has been fairly respected.
Williams %R and RSI are both looking oversold (not included on this chart)
The huge volume yesterday resulted in a pretty small downward candle - market is soaking up a lot of selling.



And in case my img tag above doesn't work, here's what I'm talking about:  https://i.imgur.com/TSGqUEe.png

[rpietila]

All FUD aside, what the chart looks to me is a yet again perfect round of monthly cycle, with a very strong growing higher-lows trendline.

Guess whether we are in a buying or selling point?

[nioc]

Can you really put FUD aside?

I did buy a little today, Thurs. and have one small order in that probably won't get filled.

[OrientA]

All FUD aside, what the chart looks to me is a yet again perfect round of monthly cycle, with a very strong growing higher-lows trendline.

Guess whether we are in a buying or selling point?

If we can hold 0.03x, then it is optimistic.

[smooth]

All FUD aside, what the chart looks to me is a yet again perfect round of monthly cycle, with a very strong growing higher-lows trendline.

Guess whether we are in a buying or selling point?

The point was made somewhere that some of the FUD may be operating according to the cycle. Trying to work with the trend rather than against it.

[TheFascistMind]

All FUD aside, what the chart looks to me is a yet again perfect round of monthly cycle, with a very strong growing higher-lows trendline.

Guess whether we are in a buying or selling point?

The point was made somewhere that some of the FUD may be operating according to the cycle. Trying to work with the trend rather than against it.

So you've adopted Martin Armstrong's science that the cycles are in control?

[rpietila]

All FUD aside, what the chart looks to me is a yet again perfect round of monthly cycle, with a very strong growing higher-lows trendline.

Guess whether we are in a buying or selling point?

The point was made somewhere that some of the FUD may be operating according to the cycle. Trying to work with the trend rather than against it.

So you've adopted Martin Armstrong's science that the cycles are in control?

In the middle of euphoria, such a rumor would have been just disregarded without actual proof of messing with the blockchain.

Cycles may be in control, but we create the cycles, so I don't feel the need to develop an argument about this.

[TheFascistMind]

All FUD aside, what the chart looks to me is a yet again perfect round of monthly cycle, with a very strong growing higher-lows trendline.

Guess whether we are in a buying or selling point?

The point was made somewhere that some of the FUD may be operating according to the cycle. Trying to work with the trend rather than against it.

So you've adopted Martin Armstrong's science that the cycles are in control?

In the middle of euphoria, such a rumor would have been just disregarded without actual proof of messing with the blockchain.

Cycles may be in control, but we create the cycles, so I don't feel the need to develop an argument about this.

As I am sure you know from experience T.A. is correct about 50% of the time, because there are cycles within cycles, so we never know which cycle is in control. So we need some supporting fundamental.

Thus it seems you are betting that BCX is lying. What caused you to place the odds higher that he is lying than not? It is very suspicious that he won't commit to reveal what he knows later if the exploit hasn't been sold and used by such a date in the future.

On the larger (longer) cycle, has any one figured out how to scale CN's ring signatures to 200 million users? Apple Pay will be there in a year or so. Paypal (cum Bitpay, Coinbase et al centralized crap) is targeting in the unbanked in the developing world (assuming Bangladesh's threat to jail crypto-currency users is an outlier).

[rpietila]

Thus it seems you are betting that BCX is lying. What caused you to place the odds higher that he is lying than not? It is very suspicious that he won't commit to reveal what he knows later if the exploit hasn't been sold and used by such a date in the future.

I believe he did not exactly mean that there is a serious and fatal exploit that is certainly exploitable and sure to kill the coin. He did not say it, and the world does not work that way. All ecosystems (of which coins are just a tech-heavy example) have vulnerabilities. Some can be infiltrated by force, others by deceit. This is a multi-faceted issue. The admittedly quite clever campaign that used the fake pro-Monero trolls may have influenced BCX's initial reaction.

Now we are already in a point where everyone actually involved wants to move on, and only the consumers of sensation media still want to dig deeper.

On the larger (longer) cycle, has any one figured out how to scale CN's ring signatures to 200 million users? Apple Pay will be there in a year or so. Paypal (cum Bitpay, Coinbase et al centralized crap) is targeting in the unbanked in the developing world (assuming Bangladesh's threat to jail crypto-currency users is an outlier).

It is not easy to say in a person's lifetime if he has left a legacy of tirelessly working for the better world, nor compare 2 people on this ground. I am doing to the best of my ability and you likewise. Our styles are very different though. I am showing a way that people around me can copy and follow, your way is impossible to follow. I don't know anything about tech and propose using imperfect solutions, sometimes just for the sake of feeling empowered by the new thing. You can deem some solutions faulty before they are even implemented. I have made some money by following general investment principles, you don't even care about making money. We are different.

[smooth]

On the larger (longer) cycle, has any one figured out how to scale CN's ring signatures to 200 million users?

Yes we have. No we aren't going to tell you how.

I don't even know that people want that though, which makes it a questionable focus. I'm sure you feel differently, so best of luck trying to create this mass scale consumer-driven solution you seem to envision (and I mean that sincerely -- I hope you succeed).

Honestly most are pretty happy with credit cards (would be better with a bit stronger security but that is an implementation detail), Apple Pay, Paypal, etc. Decentralization is interesting and has compelling advantages, but getting ordinary people to actually care about that difference seems an uphill battle, and the natural market for this technology seems elsewhere.

[OrientA]

XMR generates 1440 blocks a day, it needs about $40k injection a day to keep the price stable. The coin is not adopted/used widely. The only out of exchange transaction I know of is one guy paid XMR to an artist and the artist paid rent to landlord.

Therefore, the 1 minute block time is not necessary at this phase of the coin. We can wait much longer than 1 min to send/receive the coin to/from exchange.

We can increase the block time to say, 10 min. That should be enough for the current situation. We will generate 144 block and need $4k to keep price stable. As the coin get used widely, we can reduce gradually block time to 1 min, e.g. 1 min less every 3 months. This will also reduce the problem of block bloat.

This will increase the distribution time of the coin. Late comers will benefit.

The block reward can be the same as present schedule, which reduce constantly.

[smooth]

I don't know anything about tech and propose using imperfect solutions, sometimes just for the sake of feeling empowered by the new thing.

I find with the right disposition and adequate patience (otherwise this can become very frustrating), technical suggestions from non-technical people are often incredibly useful. They are often not blinded by the details of the technology (because they don't even know them) and can be more creative and groundbreaking as a result. I've solved several major design problems by listening to these ideas (not from Risto specifically, but in other projects).

[Shrikez]

We can increase the block time to say, 10 min. That should be enough for the current situation. We will generate 144 block and need $4k to keep price stable. As the coin get used widely, we can reduce gradually block time to 1 min, e.g. 1 min less every 3 months. This will also reduce the problem of block bloat.

What kind of global hashrate do you think $ 4k / day would give XMR?

Even miners who support coins they like and not necessarily need to make a profit such as me would leave the coin hanging.

[innergy]

Paper: Transaction Locking and Masternode Consensus

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/paper-transaction-locking-and-masternode-consensus.2418/

http://blog.anonymousbitcoinbook.com/2014/09/darksend-paper-version-2/

DARKSEND+ PAPER VERSION 2

[OrientA]

We can increase the block time to say, 10 min. That should be enough for the current situation. We will generate 144 block and need $4k to keep price stable. As the coin get used widely, we can reduce gradually block time to 1 min, e.g. 1 min less every 3 months. This will also reduce the problem of block bloat.

What kind of global hashrate do you think $ 4k / day would give XMR?

Even miners who support coins they like and not necessarily need to make a profit such as me would leave the coin hanging.

The global hash rate would be 10% of present. The coin can mature slowly, with all the developments.

[binaryFate]

We can increase the block time to say, 10 min. That should be enough for the current situation. We will generate 144 block and need $4k to keep price stable. As the coin get used widely, we can reduce gradually block time to 1 min, e.g. 1 min less every 3 months. This will also reduce the problem of block bloat.

What kind of global hashrate do you think $ 4k / day would give XMR?

Even miners who support coins they like and not necessarily need to make a profit such as me would leave the coin hanging.

The global hash rate would be 10% of present. The coin can mature slowly, with all the developments.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. 5% of today's hashrate could 51% attack the coin.

Seriously, all these discussions lately about changing fundamental stuff just because people are not happy with the price are tiring.
Changing the fundamentals of a coin because you want an immediate increase in price is wrong. Given the stability of XMR despite the fact that it is everything but user friendly for the average Joe, and all the attacks, I'd say the fundamentals in terms of emissions are about perfect.

 

[OrientA]

We can increase the block time to say, 10 min. That should be enough for the current situation. We will generate 144 block and need $4k to keep price stable. As the coin get used widely, we can reduce gradually block time to 1 min, e.g. 1 min less every 3 months. This will also reduce the problem of block bloat.

What kind of global hashrate do you think $ 4k / day would give XMR?

Even miners who support coins they like and not necessarily need to make a profit such as me would leave the coin hanging.

The global hash rate would be 10% of present. The coin can mature slowly, with all the developments.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. 5% of today's hashrate could 51% attack the coin.

Seriously, all these discussions lately about changing fundamental stuff just because people are not happy with the price are tiring.
Changing the fundamentals of a coin because you want an immediate increase in price is wrong. Given the stability of XMR despite the fact that it is everything but user friendly for the average Joe, and all the attacks, I'd say the fundamentals in terms of emissions are about perfect.
 

My idea would apply to the launch of new coins, if not XMR.