rpietila Altcoin Observer

[smooth]

There have been already a lot of those proposals been made, most broken, like PoS. Please don´t use the world revolutionary without any proof. You already have a fully mined coin and a lot of imho unjustified hype, my question remains, why is BTCD needed if the "teleport" stuff works with Bitcoin?

My question about the PoW-to-PoS coins is what's the hurry. Even if you are convinced that PoS is the future and your coin should transition to PoS (I'm not, but let's assume that for now), why not make the PoW period longer, like a year or two (or five) and then transition to PoS? That would reduce concerns about the legitimacy of the launch or distribution while still resulting in the same long term "benefit" (if you want to believe) of PoS. So why not?

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[Triffin]

my question remains, why is BTCD needed if the "teleport" stuff works with Bitcoin?

I can't speak for jl777, but from what I understand ..

1) The "teleport" stuff .. if proven will work for any coin ..
2) BTCD is the vehicle to participate in the income generated by the "teleport" service ..
3) "Anonymity" becomes a for "fee service" selected by the user on an "as needed" basis ..

Triff ..  

[othe]

There have been already a lot of those proposals been made, most broken, like PoS. Please don´t use the world revolutionary without any proof. You already have a fully mined coin and a lot of imho unjustified hype, my question remains, why is BTCD needed if the "teleport" stuff works with Bitcoin?

My question about the PoW-to-PoS coins is what's the hurry. Even if you are convinced that PoS is the future and your coin should transition to PoS (I'm not, but let's assume that for now), why not make the PoW period longer, like a year or two (or five) and then transition to PoS? That would reduce concerns about the legitimacy of the launch or distribution while still resulting in the same long term "benefit" (if you want to believe) of PoS. So why not?

Renting at Betarigs is too expensive for that timeframe to secure a large percent of coins.

It´s even more absurd to think someone would implement the most important features of a coin directly when it launches or while its mineable at least.

[nioc]

Also BitsharesX seem to be gaining ground, they are now number three on coinmarketcap, so someone is making money.

This was posted in the Monero ANN thread for some reason.  Oh wait it was a response to your post there.

Funny how Bitshares just fly's past $100 million yet Monero seems to be stuck at being a small timer...

I am curious to see where bitshares ends up in a week or two.

I just came across this on BitShares X: http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/17/dont-walk-away-run/

The link includes a video from bitshares where they say that "bitcoin was the first digital company that calls it's shares coins."  WTF  
Other than that the rest of the video made no sense to me whatsoever.  

Interesting criticisms.  I need me some Marmot assets.  

[infested999]

There have been already a lot of those proposals been made, most broken, like PoS. Please don´t use the world revolutionary without any proof. You already have a fully mined coin and a lot of imho unjustified hype, my question remains, why is BTCD needed if the "teleport" stuff works with Bitcoin?

My question about the PoW-to-PoS coins is what's the hurry. Even if you are convinced that PoS is the future and your coin should transition to PoS (I'm not, but let's assume that for now), why not make the PoW period longer, like a year or two (or five) and then transition to PoS? That would reduce concerns about the legitimacy of the launch or distribution while still resulting in the same long term "benefit" (if you want to believe) of PoS. So why not?

You can't lag behind the competition. If PoS is the future you have to be the first to use it.

[drawingthesun]

There have been already a lot of those proposals been made, most broken, like PoS. Please don´t use the world revolutionary without any proof. You already have a fully mined coin and a lot of imho unjustified hype, my question remains, why is BTCD needed if the "teleport" stuff works with Bitcoin?

My question about the PoW-to-PoS coins is what's the hurry. Even if you are convinced that PoS is the future and your coin should transition to PoS (I'm not, but let's assume that for now), why not make the PoW period longer, like a year or two (or five) and then transition to PoS? That would reduce concerns about the legitimacy of the launch or distribution while still resulting in the same long term "benefit" (if you want to believe) of PoS. So why not?

You can't lag behind the competition. If PoS is the future you have to be the first to use it.

That is a big if though.

[btc-mike]

[lots of words]

James

I think that you should start a separate OP for this innovation because the potential here is revolutionary, and the amount of discussion around your work could quickly take over this OP.

Just my 2 Satohsis worth.

+1

[smooth]

There have been already a lot of those proposals been made, most broken, like PoS. Please don´t use the world revolutionary without any proof. You already have a fully mined coin and a lot of imho unjustified hype, my question remains, why is BTCD needed if the "teleport" stuff works with Bitcoin?

My question about the PoW-to-PoS coins is what's the hurry. Even if you are convinced that PoS is the future and your coin should transition to PoS (I'm not, but let's assume that for now), why not make the PoW period longer, like a year or two (or five) and then transition to PoS? That would reduce concerns about the legitimacy of the launch or distribution while still resulting in the same long term "benefit" (if you want to believe) of PoS. So why not?

You can't lag behind the competition. If PoS is the future you have to be the first to use it.

That is a big if though.

It also assumes a fair launch and a distribution mechanism that is transparent and resistant to insider manipulation is unimportant. That is demonstrably false.

Although I will say that given the IPO, premine, instamine, insta-PoW-to-PoS, and other such questionable schemes that are well represented among the top tier coins now, one might reasonably question it.

Also, if you want to be the first to use it, you are already too late by a wide margin.

[Jungian]

There have been already a lot of those proposals been made, most broken, like PoS. Please don´t use the world revolutionary without any proof. You already have a fully mined coin and a lot of imho unjustified hype, my question remains, why is BTCD needed if the "teleport" stuff works with Bitcoin?

My question about the PoW-to-PoS coins is what's the hurry. Even if you are convinced that PoS is the future and your coin should transition to PoS (I'm not, but let's assume that for now), why not make the PoW period longer, like a year or two (or five) and then transition to PoS? That would reduce concerns about the legitimacy of the launch or distribution while still resulting in the same long term "benefit" (if you want to believe) of PoS. So why not?

You can't lag behind the competition. If PoS is the future you have to be the first to use it.

That doesn't sound like a plausible explanation for this at all. Sounds much more likely that it's about getting all the pumpers on board early.

[jl777]

Can someone please have a look at this link and analyse it for us?

I recently came across this on the exchange poloniex chatbox because many users are saying how Bitshares has real anonymity and this does away with any need for Monero.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687251.0

bitshares has aggressive marketing
tonyk admitted that their TITAN is basically an alias system and offers no protection against timing attacks
weak personal level privacy is where I would categorize it, I think DRK is offering better anon than TITAN

TITAN uses just Stealth Addresses combined with an Alias system, i dislike those simple alias systems as they are open for abuse, best example is domain grabbing.
SX alone doesn´t anonymize much.

TLA's have access globally? Not a pleasant thought...
anyway, if you had access to a person's cryptonote wallet, clearly you can deanonymize all the transactions he did. so i am assuming your smiley on that is meant as a joke

James

Well, you were talking about privacy servers and a general user doesn´t want to use something that bounces payments around even if you call them telepods, simply because its dangerous, so those will prolly be hosted in datacentres, different cup of tea compared to a local wallet that no one knows exists.

If you have access to a CN wallet, you see which amounts have been sent around or got received and at what time of course, but thats about it. No it wasn´t a joke, a passive system in this case is far superior and way more elegant then everything involving nodes that have to bounce coins around.

I think that you should start a separate OP for this innovation because the potential here is revolutionary, and the amount of discussion around your work could quickly take over this OP.

There have been already a lot of those proposals been made, most broken, like PoS. Please don´t use the world revolutionary without any proof. You already have a fully mined coin and a lot of imho unjustified hype, my question remains, why is BTCD needed if the "teleport" stuff works with Bitcoin?
The way you guys try to do cryptography is simply not how it should be done, i would call it dangerous at least for users if you promise certain things without a thorough analysis before.

I did not use the word revolutionary, that was coinits

I am asking for help from an independent expert to do the thorough analysis. I also never claimed teleport was new cryptography. I am not a cryptography expert, I just use Bernstein's nacl, I figure he knows what he is doing. I am like a systems integrator, maybe that is good way to think about it. Teleport uses existing things to make an integrated system.

I believe the cryptonote tech is best anon algo and intend to use it as part of Teleport system, like a computer has HDD, CPU, etc. maybe it has multiple HDD's

I need a platform for the Teleport to be hosted in and I doubt the bitcoin core guys would let me do my thing, considering their reaction against XCP. Now if you can convince the bitcoin guys to allow me to put Teleport into bitcoin core, then I will do it!

James

P.S. I am not liking the BIP paperwork process of several years

[jl777]

There have been already a lot of those proposals been made, most broken, like PoS. Please don´t use the world revolutionary without any proof. You already have a fully mined coin and a lot of imho unjustified hype, my question remains, why is BTCD needed if the "teleport" stuff works with Bitcoin?

My question about the PoW-to-PoS coins is what's the hurry. Even if you are convinced that PoS is the future and your coin should transition to PoS (I'm not, but let's assume that for now), why not make the PoW period longer, like a year or two (or five) and then transition to PoS? That would reduce concerns about the legitimacy of the launch or distribution while still resulting in the same long term "benefit" (if you want to believe) of PoS. So why not?

Renting at Betarigs is too expensive for that timeframe to secure a large percent of coins.

It´s even more absurd to think someone would implement the most important features of a coin directly when it launches or while its mineable at least.

I sense some sarcasm here. I couldnt very well have implemented teleport before the coin was launched because I didnt even find out about it until a week later. My involvement started with an innonent question. I actually saw they were planning to use zerocoin and I was advocating using cryptonote. I had just done a cryptonote fork the other day at the time and thought it would be much better than unproven zerocoin.

BTCD creators and community was very open and welcoming and instead of telling me to go away (this seems to happen a lot to me), they were eager for my adding features to BTCD. Then one thing led to another and as I was integrating all the software I had written this year, the Teleport idea just came to me, so that is why BTCD launched the way it was. I had nothing to do with the launch.

James

P.S. I also have received no BTCD from any of the launch, I also didnt mine any BTCD, I purchased all my BTCD on the open market and after I announced my involvement.

[iCEBREAKER]

Funny how Bitshares just fly's past $100 million yet Monero seems to be stuck at being a small timer...

I am curious to see where bitshares ends up in a week or two.

I just came across this on BitShares X: http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/17/dont-walk-away-run/

Ouch!  Talk about taken out back and shot...what a nice debunking of BS' yet-another-POS-hubris-coin-based-replacement-for-everything.

I'd sooner buy IntelliCoins than the BS spike.  The only smartcoin I own is a trace amount of Via, because it relies more on bottom-up rather than top-down processes to add value by providing goods/services on the platform, unlike NXT and its clones.  And it passes my FOSS/fair/POW altcoin legitimacy filters.

NXT, BS, ETH and the rest are the Chinese ghost cities of cryptcurrency.  Somebody went to a lot of trouble to build their elaborate structures and somebody is profiting handsomely from their creation, but they lack actual citizens to utilize their functionality.

If BitShare was a city it would be Ordos, an empty husk created by pure speculation.

Meanwhile, the sister islands of Bitopia and Tacopia are social Meccas, a thriving mix of Burning Man, Afghanistan, Ibiza, and Israel
(tons of technology/booze/gambling/guns/hookers/drugs/parties, but also grumpy fundamentalists/JBTs/spooks/crazies/criminals).

[othe]

Sarcasm, nevar.

Dunno who tells you to go away but i can´t think of a single reason to send someone away who wants to help with something, no clue about what other coins you talk but i guess they were weird.
But what i also don´t understand why you try to contribute to those instamine/fastmine coin projects, seems like a waste of talent for me

[jl777]

Sarcasm, nevar.

Dunno who tells you to go away but i can´t think of a single reason to send someone away who wants to help with something, no clue about what other coins you talk but i guess they were weird.
But what i also don´t understand why you try to contribute to those instamine/fastmine coin projects, seems like a waste of talent for me

I am accidental core dev

I was total newbie to crypto last november and ripple was what I first discovered! After I kept complaining that their tech was broken (autoupdate for prices didnt), their spreads were untradeable (>20%), liquidity almost nonexistent (~$10K/day), that USD should equal USD (not 25% difference) and automatically rippling (stealing!) the more precious bitstamp USD for the horribly discounted snapswap USD was really a horrible idea exposing them to litigation. They changed the default to not enable rippling and then even though I had narrowed spreads to 1% with an automatic marketmaker bot and told them how they could actually get some high volume markets, well since the high volume market I was bringing to ripple back in December was NXT, ripple started to actively want me gone. first I my posts are deleted/banned, I get some sort of sanction, etc.

So, I ended up in the NXT community. Being a non-Java guy, sort of a second class citizen, being a C programmer, not even C++, so not using classes or objects, well I had to operate outside the core and build services on top of the NXT API. But I didnt even start coding until late Feb when I realized that nobody else was going to do what needed to be done, like MGW.

I did end up doing quite well with the NXT Asset Exchange, which totally changes the balance of wealth in the NXT economy as there is only 1 billion total NXT and we all know how it was distributed initially. The distribution of that will take some years to get to some more reasonable balance, but if you look at asset values, it is rapidly rebalancing in favor of the talented and hard working. I estimate there is almost 500 million NXT worth of NXT assets already issued, not sure about total, but I know my assets market cap of ~175 million NXT. So within months the percentage of NXT economy held by the NXT IPO shrinks and I estimate within a couple years that there will be several billion+ of NXT asset market cap, possibly up to 10 billion NXT worth. So, with the initial distribution rapidly shrinking away I dont see any significant issue with it.

Anyway, with no hope of getting my code into the NXT core ("over my dead body is anything not-Java getting into the NXT core") and the whole cryptonote fork -> BTCD launch story, well that is how I get here.

I already make more money that I will ever spend from the NXT assets (I only own a minority of the assets as I sold to early investors at big discounts and gave away about 20% of the most valuable assets) as even at low NXT prices it is mind boggling amount. Though my wife says there is no problem to spend it all

So, now I am really wanting to solve the global problem of cash disappearing. This I feel is not a widely feared situation and it really should be. Once the govt can control how you spend your money, they pretty much control you. With the inevitable USD problems that will happen in the (near?) future, I am very concerned about giant cascade effect that will make btsx collapse look like one raindrop. I like freedom, so I am working as hard as I can to make actual electronic cash from the various tech that is already here. No need to reinvent BTC, it is here, it is big, it is liquid, it is just a transparent protocol. Combine it with XMR, and do all the things to make big headache for attacker.

James

P.S. one related problem is that I am not able to open a bank account. USA has strong armed all countries to require 6 months of utility bills to be able to open a bank account. Since I am always traveling (no permanent residence), I never have any such documents. This rule is so silly but yet it is the reality. That is why I am getting the anon debit card. Even second class citizen trouble making guy like me will be able to zap crypto to the anon card and get fiat cash from bankomats.

[klee]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

Can you be more specific than "extremely unsound"?  The legal risk I understand.

I will let others elaborate. If it hasn't been explained I will write it up at some point but I don't have time right now.

@Gentso1: Anonymint & Cunicula criticised this heavily - check for bytemaster's post and bitshares in the forum.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279771.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=298677.0

Somehow related:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297147
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291108.0

[jl777]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

Can you be more specific than "extremely unsound"?  The legal risk I understand.

I will let others elaborate. If it hasn't been explained I will write it up at some point but I don't have time right now.

@Gentso1: Anonymint & Cunicula criticised this heavily - check for bytemaster's post and bitshares in the forum.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279771.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=298677.0

Somehow related:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297147
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291108.0

I am sad I missed the days when BC cunicula was active. He has some cool ideas.
did anybody ever implement his pegging system?

does anybody have copies of cunicula's whitepaper? the link is not working anymore

[klee]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.
 

Can you be more specific than "extremely unsound"?  The legal risk I understand.

I will let others elaborate. If it hasn't been explained I will write it up at some point but I don't have time right now.

@Gentso1: Anonymint & Cunicula criticised this heavily - check for bytemaster's post and bitshares in the forum.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279771.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=298677.0

Somehow related:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297147
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291108.0

I am sad I missed the days when BC cunicula was active. He has some cool ideas.
did anybody ever implement his pegging system?

does anybody have copies of cunicula's whitepaper? the link is not working anymore

Small chances I will find something in my HD but I will try..

[Este Nuno]

Thoughts on this whitepaper draft from Skycoin?

Completely new system of distributed consensus. Makes me a bit nervous, but I'd like to hear what other people think.

https://github.com/skycoin/whitepapers/blob/master/README.md

[jwinterm]

Thoughts on this whitepaper draft from Skycoin?

Completely new system of distributed consensus. Makes me a bit nervous, but I'd like to hear what other people think.

https://github.com/skycoin/whitepapers/blob/master/README.md

It seems quite complex,

By constructing the network link adjacency matrix, we can compute the Eigenvalue centrality measure which measures the influence of each node. We can cluster the graph and find the influential subclusters of nodes and then sampling nodes from the subclusters can determine if global consensus has been reached.

and as some wise person probably once said,

A complex system can fail in an infinite number of ways.

[rpietila]

I want to proudly present my initiative of having options markets for Monero.