[ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA

[stealth923]

Also whats to stop a bad actor from creating as many wallets/nodes as he/she wishes and capturing the data / stealing incoming transactions. This was done with XC rev 1.0 and the same applies to Cloak's design.

A system we have put in place to require a small investment to be a node thus stopping unlimited bad nodes by investment deterrence.

small investment...isnt that the same as masternodes for DRK???

additionally, how will you blacklist - XC had its dynamic learning trust system which went down the drain....any black listing system is easily flawed and centralized.

Obviously black listing will not be enough.  No you will not have to have 1000 CLOAK like a masternode.  But if you want 1000 nodes on the network spying it will cost you.

You have not thought this through.

Coin quantity is not the factor as it moves dynamically with price...1000 drk coin cost $10 back in the day. If cloak even had 10 coins to become a node, in 5 years that price might be unobtainable for most....get my point??? so essentially it is the SAME as DRK masternodes.

You must be a day trader.  Our code is not static and there is no node price setting.  This is a network

How so - do you propose to dynamically change the number of coins required to become a node based on the market price???

Edit: you say small investment, but how do you know what that same investment is worth in 6 months time to become a node?

All I mean is that an empty wallet has been programmed to not be allowed to be a node.  You can do the math on percentages, I will not take the time for you.

This is very immature thinking and easily bypassed.

Open Wallet1, send in 1 coin. Become a bad actor.

Open new wallet2 and send 1 coin from wallet 1--> wallet 2. Shutdown Wallet 1

Become bad actor.

Repeat that over and over and you do the math on how this can be scaled out to attack the network and as you steal more coins can exponentially grow the attack footprint.

[voxelot]

I hope you do seriously think about these things because there are a few other large security risks I can see from this design.

So to all those in this thread who keep humming "we have working anonymity".....from my perspective, its not even close.

You will see us at blackhat.  The internet isn't safe I'm afraid.

[YourMother]

I like how people correlate the current prices with the development when in fact this is nothing but a shitcoin pump. The P&D scheme is always the same. "Devs" releasing shitclones and then adding gimmick features to them in time just to give a false feeling of development. And you get to see this. Closed source code. Beta after beta. Features not working. Gimmick shit being added. Vague info regarding the anon solution. Check the pattern.

If you think that the price of this shitcoin is sustainable, then happy bagholding. God, this crypto scene works against any philosophy of life that Satoshi Nakamoto has. I bet he's cringing hard right now.

[Sleepyx]

I like how people correlate the current prices with the development when in fact this is nothing but a shitcoin pump. The P&D scheme is always the same. "Devs" releasing shitclones and then adding gimmick features to them in time just to give a false feeling of development. And you get to see this. Closed source code. Beta after beta. Features not working. Gimmick shit being added. Vague info regarding the anon solution. Check the pattern.

If you think that the price of this shitcoin is sustainable, then happy bagholding. God, this crypto scene works against any philosophy of life that Satoshi Nakamoto has. I bet he's cringing hard right now.

How long do such pumps usually last? Hasn't this gone too long to be a pump/dump?

[ThisTimeYes]

anyone with technical details already participated in the PoSA beta, and frankly, them seeing the PoSA actually working the way it's supposed to is what has driven up the price in the last few days.

any technical details beyond the whitepaper are trade secrets, and should never be revealed until Cloak is the market leader by a fair margin.

Im being totally honest here, I want to buy some cloak if it truly is technically better than other anon systems but without knowing how it works I guess I have to wait.

Thank you for your honesty.  It seems like it is a good idea for you to wait before you buy.  Will you please PM me when you decide to buy?  I'll send you a reward in Cloak coin as your entry into the market.  I'm serious and I wish you luck.  

[voxelot]

This is very immature thinking and easily bypassed.

Open Wallet1, send in 1 coin. Become a bad actor.

Open new wallet2 and send 1 coin from wallet 1--> wallet 2. Shutdown Wallet 1

Become bad actor.

Repeat that over and over and you do the math on how this can be scaled out to attack the network and as you steal more coins can exponentially grow the attack footprint.

How much does it cost to own a bad IP and be a spy on tor? I think tor still works, let me check... yup

[Sleepyx]

anyone with technical details already participated in the PoSA beta, and frankly, them seeing the PoSA actually working the way it's supposed to is what has driven up the price in the last few days.

any technical details beyond the whitepaper are trade secrets, and should never be revealed until Cloak is the market leader by a fair margin.

Im being totally honest here, I want to buy some cloak if it truly is technically better than other anon systems but without knowing how it works I guess I have to wait.

Thank you for your honesty.  It seems like it is a good idea for you to wait before you buy.  Will you please PM me when you decide to buy?  I'll send you a reward in Cloak coin as your entry into the market.  I'm serious and I wish you luck.  

I already bought some earlier for about the price its at now..

[Splatters]

I WANT TO SEE CLOAK PASSING DARK ON COINMARKETCAP

yup reaching the heights of 0.04BTC

are you crazy? It's just could be a dream, a very good dream.

[xibeijan]

I hope you do seriously think about these things because there are a few other large security risks I can see from this design.

So to all those in this thread who keep humming "we have working anonymity".....from my perspective, its not even close.

You will see us at blackhat.  The internet isn't safe I'm afraid.

Are you going to demonstrate an exploit or something at Blackhat?

[stealth923]

This is very immature thinking and easily bypassed.

Open Wallet1, send in 1 coin. Become a bad actor.

Open new wallet2 and send 1 coin from wallet 1--> wallet 2. Shutdown Wallet 1

Become bad actor.

Repeat that over and over and you do the math on how this can be scaled out to attack the network and as you steal more coins can exponentially grow the attack footprint.

How much does it cost to own a bad IP and be a spy on tor?

Not much, hence why Tor has already been compromised:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/30/5951479/tor-says-unknown-attackers-compromised-hidden-services

[InvestorPerson]

I like how people correlate the current prices with the development when in fact this is nothing but a shitcoin pump. The P&D scheme is always the same. "Devs" releasing shitclones and then adding gimmick features to them in time just to give a false feeling of development. And you get to see this. Closed source code. Beta after beta. Features not working. Gimmick shit being added. Vague info regarding the anon solution. Check the pattern.

If you think that the price of this shitcoin is sustainable, then happy bagholding. God, this crypto scene works against any philosophy of life that Satoshi Nakamoto has. I bet he's cringing hard right now.

someone missed the train?

still time to buy your ticket, next stop 500k

[voxelot]

This is very immature thinking and easily bypassed.

Open Wallet1, send in 1 coin. Become a bad actor.

Open new wallet2 and send 1 coin from wallet 1--> wallet 2. Shutdown Wallet 1

Become bad actor.

Repeat that over and over and you do the math on how this can be scaled out to attack the network and as you steal more coins can exponentially grow the attack footprint.

How much does it cost to own a bad IP and be a spy on tor?

Not much, hence why Tor has already been compromised:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/30/5951479/tor-says-unknown-attackers-compromised-hidden-services

Yet you will probably still bitorrent porn tonight.

[xibeijan]

Thank you for the technical post.  Hope this answers some.

Thanks for your productive response.  I actually own both DRK and CLOAK, so want to understand the systems better.

Obfuscation.  You have to think about PoSA like tor.

1. We can black list malicious nodes and rely on the fact that there will be so many nodes on the network (unlike centralized masternodes) that the majority will not be spy nodes and to find any relevant data will be next to impossible.  Nothing is 100% approaching limits is the best way to handle things.

You can only black list nodes if you can detect that they are doing something bad.  There is no way to detect which nodes are the malicious nodes that are spying because other than recording transactions, they perform their duties perfectly and are upstanding citizens according to the protocol.  However, they secretly record the links between transactions and publish them publicly elsewhere (example, their own de-anonomised block explorer).

2. Same question as 1

Indeed.

3. 2 levels out of a random selection. powers of two magnify probabilities of not being interfered with exponentially.

The problem is that 2^1 is only 2.  To leverage the power of two, you need to add more layers of anonymity.  For example, 8 or 10 steps, so you get 2^10 = 1024.  However, the problem is that would slow down transactions too much.  

4. Again the same questions

No.  It's quite different.  My 4th question is about someone stealing funds, not anonymity.

Blacklisting is only a first defense and I have no idea if it is even going to be implemented, just a thought and it is a weak one.

About layers of anon.. you forget that you have as many nodes as you have on the network to randomly be assigned to.

It doesn't matter how many nodes there are.  It only matters how many levels of mixing separate the outputs.

We have already been thinking about ways of prevent nodes from knowing when a posa tx is incoming.  Packet sniffing is an issue we are combating.

It sounds like it will be a problem.  Is there are technical description of the protocol available yet?

[YourMother]

I like how people correlate the current prices with the development when in fact this is nothing but a shitcoin pump. The P&D scheme is always the same. "Devs" releasing shitclones and then adding gimmick features to them in time just to give a false feeling of development. And you get to see this. Closed source code. Beta after beta. Features not working. Gimmick shit being added. Vague info regarding the anon solution. Check the pattern.

If you think that the price of this shitcoin is sustainable, then happy bagholding. God, this crypto scene works against any philosophy of life that Satoshi Nakamoto has. I bet he's cringing hard right now.

someone missed the train?

still time to buy your ticket, next stop 500k

Thank you for confirming that this is nothing but a shitcoin pump.

Also BEWARE - Whenever you see imbeciles spamming the thread with ALL TIME HIGH, charts and other garbage just to cover the legitimate questions in here... you know that this shit is about to go down to 30k satoshi fast. Also, i've seen people willing to give bonuses to those that invest in Cloak. Just watch the markets closely and don't believe the hype. Whales can't wait to dump on your asses.

Don't forget that people are in here for the profits and not for the technology.

[ThisTimeYes]

Pump is winding down now, time to pack up and head home soon.

Stealth923!!  You may be right!  Just out of curiousity what coins do you hold or like?  Are you a Cloak coin-holder?  Do you ever see yourself trading for any Cloak?  

Take it easy!!

[voxelot]

It sounds like it will be a problem.  Is there are technical description of the protocol available yet?

No, if I gave you a white paper today it would be out of date tomorrow.

[brightlight]

I like how people correlate the current prices with the development when in fact this is nothing but a shitcoin pump. The P&D scheme is always the same. "Devs" releasing shitclones and then adding gimmick features to them in time just to give a false feeling of development. And you get to see this. Closed source code. Beta after beta. Features not working. Gimmick shit being added. Vague info regarding the anon solution. Check the pattern.

If you think that the price of this shitcoin is sustainable, then happy bagholding. God, this crypto scene works against any philosophy of life that Satoshi Nakamoto has. I bet he's cringing hard right now.

someone missed the train?

still time to buy your ticket, next stop 500k

Thank you for confirming that this is nothing but a shitcoin pump.

Also BEWARE - Whenever you see imbeciles spamming the thread with ALL TIME HIGH, charts and other garbage just to cover the legitimate questions in here... you know that this shit is about to go down to 30k satoshi fast. Also, i've seen people willing to give bonuses to those that invest in Cloak. Just watch the markets closely and don't believe the hype. Whales can't wait to dump on your asses.

Don't forget that people are in here for the profits and not for the technology.

How much hate can be in one person! Go and do something useful once and for all!!!

[InvestorPerson]

Thank you for confirming that this is nothing but a shitcoin pump.

Thank you for confirming that you did miss the train

how to spot a coin that's going places? just see how much FUD a coin is getting thrown at

[stealth923]

This is very immature thinking and easily bypassed.

Open Wallet1, send in 1 coin. Become a bad actor.

Open new wallet2 and send 1 coin from wallet 1--> wallet 2. Shutdown Wallet 1

Become bad actor.

Repeat that over and over and you do the math on how this can be scaled out to attack the network and as you steal more coins can exponentially grow the attack footprint.

How much does it cost to own a bad IP and be a spy on tor?

Not much, hence why Tor has already been compromised:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/30/5951479/tor-says-unknown-attackers-compromised-hidden-services

Yet you will probably still bitorrent porn tonight.

So Cloak's design is based on p2p bittorent porn downloads?? I dont get the correlation.

One is porn, the other is fiat transactions (real money) that can be easily targeted for stealing and or unmasking.

Consequences are vastly different. One person lightens his load, the other loses money or ends up in jail.

[illodin]

This is very immature thinking and easily bypassed.

Open Wallet1, send in 1 coin. Become a bad actor.

Open new wallet2 and send 1 coin from wallet 1--> wallet 2. Shutdown Wallet 1

Become bad actor.

Repeat that over and over and you do the math on how this can be scaled out to attack the network and as you steal more coins can exponentially grow the attack footprint.

How much does it cost to own a bad IP and be a spy on tor? I think tor still works, let me check... yup

How much does a 10k machine botnet cost? According to this, it's $200.
And some people have 100k+ botnets at their immediate disposal.