[XCR] Crypti | Dapps | Sidechains | Dapp Store | OPEN SOURCE | 100% own code | DPoS

[karmacoma24]

You are somewhere wrong.
There are no 101 nodes there, so it is not representing current network

The network monitor is correct. This is because you can run multiple delegates from a single node. Therefore out of the 101 active delegates, certain delegates are actually running from the same IP address. The network monitor shows peers, not delegates.

[starik69]

You are somewhere wrong.
There are no 101 nodes there, so it is not representing current network

The network monitor is correct. This is because you can run multiple delegates from a single node. Therefore out of the 101 active delegates, certain delegates are actually running from the same IP address. The network monitor shows nodes/servers, not delegates.

So this monitor can not be used to prove that delegates are not "running in one datacenter and have no network problems"
Thank you!

[karmacoma24]

You are somewhere wrong.
There are no 101 nodes there, so it is not representing current network

The network monitor is correct. This is because you can run multiple delegates from a single node. Therefore out of the 101 active delegates, certain delegates are actually running from the same IP address. The network monitor shows nodes/servers, not delegates.

So this monitor can not be used to prove that delegates are not "running in one datacenter and have no network problems"
Thank you!

Even though there is not an implicit 1:1 relationship between nodes and delegates. Using the network monitor as a rough guide. At this early stage in the network, it is fair to say we have made a significant effort to distribute our nodes both geographically and using a variety of cloud hosting providers.

[Tobo]

Guys, I hope this quiet launch was intentional. Cause if not then 3 non-fictional delegates in 24 h is a disaster.
I'm afraid  

To get more people to participate the voting is a big concern for DPoS right now, probably the biggest one. Both CfB and Vitalik voiced this concern. I believe that in the future, when Crypti get bootstrapped and adopted by the real business, the users will have much high motivation to participate the voting and this issue will be solved.

CfB's review:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13921.150

The same concern has been shared by Vitalik - https://www.zapchain.com/a/FRsI5InA2e

DPOS: not too comfortable with people voting honestly as a security assumption (as I recall, there was an empirical result that showed that due to the mass of people non-voting you only need ~8% of stake to perform a "51% attack"), would prefer it used a more standard BFT algo between the delegates, but otherwise makes sense.

[Passion_ltc]

You are somewhere wrong.
There are no 101 nodes there, so it is not representing current network

The network monitor is correct. This is because you can run multiple delegates from a single node. Therefore out of the 101 active delegates, certain delegates are actually running from the same IP address. The network monitor shows nodes/servers, not delegates.

So this monitor can not be used to prove that delegates are not "running in one datacenter and have no network problems"
Thank you!

Of course there is prove. One datacenter would be in one location on the world. I see over 15 locations and from this point it will only spread further.

[Passion_ltc]

Except of 101 others 

Which may be running in one datacenter and have no network problems
BTW, what are "access" and "whiteList" ip in config.json meant for?

Code:

"forging": {
		"secret":[],
		"access": {
			"whiteList": ["127.0.0.1"]
		}
	}, 

Whitelist shows all IPs from which it is possible to enable forging. So right now only from your local machine.

[crypti]

Instead of solving problems you prefer to blame those who tell you about problems.  

If you can't sync, have any other problems.
Please, send us your OS: Linux, Windows, or Mac.
Then send us logs.log file pls, description of problem. And maybe few screens, if it possible.

Send it to my PM. We will check and fix.

[rtrtcrypto]

I'm worried about this...

This is one aspect I never liked about DPoS... the idea of voting people into positions of power for the security of the network seems problematic, no? I don't see what the incentive (monetary) will be in protecting the network! Down the line, anytime there are issues where network participation drops, we would have a security issue where the incentive to secure the network would not align with the costs to do so.

How is this mitigated? If there is no financial incentive to secure the network, it will then be financially beneficial to ATTACK it, no?

btw. is there an seperate Paper where I can find how much I can earn with an running Node?

... 10.000 XCR a lot of coins,so I want to know how long I have to run a node till I have my 10.000XRC back.

(For future reference, I have also posted the summary below at the main Crypti board as "Crypti DPoS Delegate Economics":  http://forum.crypti.me/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17)

Earning Crypti in your pocket takes A LOT of Crypti leaving other pockets.

If you want to think in terms of Crypti instead of dollars:  

How many Crypti you get in a month by being a Delegate is totally dependent on the monthly traffic in Crypti handled by the system.  

For you to make 1 Crypti as a Delegate, the entire DPoS system has to process total transfers between users of 112.2K Crypti at 0.1% fee.  

For you to make 10K Crypti as a Delegate SOLELY FROM USER TO USER TRANSACTION FEES, the entire DPoS system has to process total transfers between users of 1.122 BILLION Crypti - every single Crypti in existence has to change hands 11 times at 0.1% fee.
 
These numbers are constant regardless of the market value of Crypti.

The 10K Crypti that are surrendered in fees by a user that wants to become a Delegate is a special case.   These Crypti are split directly between the other Delegates and the Foundation, with each EXISTING Delegate receiving 90 Crypti upon the application of a NEW Delegate.  So if you are an early Delegate, you will get your initial 10K entry fee back once 112 other users apply to become a Delegate.  However, I personally  wouldn't recommend depending on this special circumstance as a payback method to recoup your Delegate fee.  It obviously isn't going to work for all Delegate applicants.

Running a real-world node takes real-world money.

If you want to think in terms of dollars and pay your server costs:

Say you are a Delegate running a node and you need to make $10 per month forging to pay for your node costs.  Crypti is currently $0.004 each.  Let's say that when 0.2.0 launches the value of Crypti pops 2.5X to a penny each or $0.01 each.  As a node, to get your $10 you have to "clear" as your monthly fee cut $10/$0.01 = 1000 Crypti.   That's your take AFTER you pay a 10% "tax" to the Foundation.  In order for you to put 1000 XCR in your pocket every month you've got to take in as fees a total of 1111 Crypti, with 111 going to the Foundation and 1000 going to you.  This is true for all 101 delegates, so the total fees required to let ALL forgers break even at $10 per month is 1111 X 101 = 112,211 Crypti.  

Thus for a "breakeven month" with a $0.01 Crypti value 2.5X higher than at present, 101,000 Crypti  must be split by the 101 Delegates (who get $10 each) and the Foundation gets 11,211 Crypti worth $112.  

Initial forging fees are apparently going to be a tenth percent or 0.1%.   This means that for every 1000 Crypti processed as node traffic, the nodes pass 999 on to the recipient and keep 1 as a fee.  So for the 101 nodes to take in 112,211 Crypti as fees, they've got to process 112,211 / 0.001 = 112.2M as Crypti traffic.

So for a Delegate to make "just" $10 as 1000 Crypti in a month, the Crypti price has got to be 2.5X higher than it is now coupled with more than the entire total supply of Crypti changing hands every month.  

Note there are other combinations of these two value / traffic criteria that yield $10 per month per Delegate, but making one of them "somewhat more reasonable" makes the other one "even more unreasonable".   Thus another scenario is, if the monthly transaction traffic target is dropped to "only" 10M Crypti per month (a tenth of the total Crypti supply), then compensating a Delegate $10 per month requires a Crypti value of $0.112 each, or over X25 the current value.

These are kinda sobering numbers in my opinion.  A delegate had better be prepared to fund a node out of his own pocket for probably many months until either Crypti prices and/or transaction volumes ramp up VERY significantly.

[starik69]

Send it to my PM. We will check and fix.

Thank you.
I do have some logs, but now i think i have found some problem on my side which i didnt notice before. 
First i'll try to fix it myself, if this wont work, i pm you.

[Tobo]

How is this mitigated? If there is no financial incentive to secure the network, it will then be financially beneficial to ATTACK it, no?

I think if you have a real business on Crypti, you will have the motivation to be a delegate to secure the network because you make profit and living on your business, not necessary to make profit by being a forger.

[Litoshi]

If you can't get a better connection to communicate with a small pool of nodes within 10s, you shouldn't be voted as a delegate? This isn't meant for amateurs and its not there for you to make a quick buck. It's there to run the network. Only the best need apply. This is a serious business and we aren't screwing around here. If you aren't willing to run on solid, dedicated hardware or cloud hosting worth it's salt, it's not worth trying to get votes. This isn't me being harsh, this is the reality of how this system works.

Please, do not be delusional in your fantasies. You do not know what you are talking about - what equipment i use and how amateurish i am.
For example, i run NODE node on one vps for months without any problem, but now the same vps can not run Crypti because client can not sync. Not telling how many NXT servers i run successfully.
Instead of solving problems you prefer to blame those who tell you about problems.  

Starik,

If you look at the delegate uptimes you will see that my delegate is very low on uptime percent.  Thats because I am running it off a computer at my house.  The ability to forge blocks in 10 seconds and get the information back to the network is not very reliable with a home computer on a DSL line, and impossible with a satellite connection.  The latency is just too long.  

Most of the delegates are now on hosts such as Google and Vultr.  The closer you can get your delegate to the main internet routers, the more successful your delegate will be.  

I also noticed, while running a delegate off a home computer, that I had constant forks.  If the bc wont sync and your sync is bouncing between upper and lower blocks, you are on a fork.  You need to delete the bc and restart the node.

This is what we find when we test.  Changing the 10 second block time to 15 or 20 seconds will mitigate this, but it would also slow down Crypti.

[MalReynolds]

I'm worried about this...

...I don't see what the incentive (monetary) will be in protecting the network! ...How is this mitigated? If there is no financial incentive to secure the network, it will then be financially beneficial to ATTACK it, no?

The incentive to protect the Crypti DPoS network is ultimately philosophical, not financial.  The Crypti DPoS network eliminates the PoW huge waste of mining resources and the hoarding problems of PoS.  The Crypti ten-second blocktime coordination among a small, controlled forging group supports lightning fast transaction confirmation times and fantastic levels of transactions-per-second.

Currently there is no high bar to becoming a Delegate.  You can become a 0.2.0 launch delegate by going to Poloniex and spending less than $50 on the required 10K XCR.  If you want to set up a Crypti node, you can do it.

Crypti represents a revolution.  Support it and set up a Delegate node not to get rich, but because it is the future of cryptocurrency and will outlast Bitcoin.

And if you happen to get rich by holding a portion of 0.2.0 relaunch Crypti that appreciates tens or hundreds of times from the launch price, well, deal with it.

[MalReynolds]

How is this mitigated? If there is no financial incentive to secure the network, it will then be financially beneficial to ATTACK it, no?

I think if you have a real business on Crypti, you will have the motivation to be a delegate to secure the network because you make profit and living on your business, not necessary to make profit by being a forger.

YES!  My point exactly from six months ago!

I talked previously about a dual Bitcoin / Crypti box, but for vendor access in accepting both coins for transactions, not mining.  Vendors would buy the box to process Bitcoin, and stay for the use of Crypti once Bitcoin crashes.  As it will.

A desire to Mine / forge is a get-rich-quick attitude that must be transcended to implement a cryptocoin commerce system where vendors run nodes only to process transactions and the network is "formed" and "strengthened" from that motivation alone....

We gotta go BEYOND Bitcoin....

[Litoshi]

How is this mitigated? If there is no financial incentive to secure the network, it will then be financially beneficial to ATTACK it, no?

I think if you have a real business on Crypti, you will have the motivation to be a delegate to secure the network because you make profit and living on your business, not necessary to make profit by being a forger.

YES!  My point exactly from six months ago!

I talked previously about a dual Bitcoin / Crypti box, but for vendor access in accepting both coins for transactions, not mining.  Vendors would buy the box to process Bitcoin, and stay for the use of Crypti once Bitcoin crashes.  As it will.

A desire to Mine / forge is a get-rich-quick attitude that must be transcended to implement a cryptocoin commerce system where vendors run nodes only to process transactions and the network is "formed" and "strengthened" from that motivation alone....

We gotta go BEYOND Bitcoin....

Yes, Mal, I agree with you.  Bitcoin is the "Ford Model T" of the cybercoin universe.  Unfortunately, ground breaking inventions are rarely all inclusive and perfectly functional, but they are revolutionary enough and being first, tend to stick around for a long time. 

The Model T was still a a large percentage of cars on the road until the early 1950s. A 30 year run! 

Bitcoin will be THE major player for at least another year, and A major player for many years after that.  Our goal is to make XCR one of the Bitcoin replacements.  Perhaps the "Chevy Corvette" of the crypto world?

[starik69]

Ok, seems like i fixed problems of my vps via support and now node is synced.

[karmacoma24]

CryptiKit Update - Simple & easy Crypti node deployment and management.

Small update to yesterday's release which fixes a few issues affecting certain systems.

Please download here: https://github.com/karmacoma/cryptikit/releases/tag/v2.0.1

For further information about CryptiKit and what it can do, please read here:
- https://github.com/karmacoma/cryptikit/blob/v2.0.1/README.md

For the complete changelog, please read here:
- https://github.com/karmacoma/cryptikit/blob/v2.0.1/Changelog.md


Changelog

• Fixing uninitialized constant CryptiKit::BasicError after initial installation
• Fixing bash auto-completion where .profile exists instead of .bash_profile

A big thanks to Wulfcastle for providing feedback in the #CryptiTalk IRC channel.

[Bitseed]

Guys, I hope this quiet launch was intentional. Cause if not then 3 non-fictional delegates in 24 h is a disaster.
I'm afraid  

To get more people to participate the voting is a big concern for DPoS right now, probably the biggest one. Both CfB and Vitalik voiced this concern. I believe that in the future, when Crypti get bootstrapped and adopted by the real business, the users will have much high motivation to participate the voting and this issue will be solved.

CfB's review:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13921.150

The same concern has been shared by Vitalik - https://www.zapchain.com/a/FRsI5InA2e

DPOS: not too comfortable with people voting honestly as a security assumption (as I recall, there was an empirical result that showed that due to the mass of people non-voting you only need ~8% of stake to perform a "51% attack"), would prefer it used a more standard BFT algo between the delegates, but otherwise makes sense.

Incentivizing voting has been a concern of mine as well. One way to create an interest in participation would be for delegates to set their own fees, and users would pay the fee of the delegate they vote for. The transaction would still be processed by the forging delegate, but the fees would be split at the end of the round according to how much the delegates are charging instead of evenly. I expect running a delegate will be more of part of marketing its main business, like a company putting its name on a stadium, than used as a source of income by itself. The point of DPoS is to minimize the cost of securing the network, not make money for the delegates.

[Bigcabrito]

I'm having some issues with the Crypti 0.2.0 client on Windows 8.1. After installing and starting up the program, it hangs on the initial screen, never allowing me to type my passphrase and access my account.

[Passion_ltc]

I'm having some issues with the Crypti 0.2.0 client on Windows 8.1. After installing and starting up the program, it hangs on the initial screen, never allowing me to type my passphrase and access my account.

Sent you a message.

[Passion_ltc]

By the way guys, I updated the signatures in the OP.

Crypti

.    CRYPTI is a Node.JS based crypto-currency built from scratch!    Running on Delegated Proof of Stake. Soon with Dapp Store and much more!

▐ CRYPTI▐ is a Node.JS based crypto-currency built from scratch! Running on Delegated Proof of Stake. Soon with Dapp Store and much more!