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[GreXX]

My "unofficial" audit of the 0.2.0 genesis block continues.

The launch Delegates seem to be divided into two categories.  Thirty of them appear to have received their initial funds from the genesis block; 71 did not.

Example of a launch Delegate (MatthewDC_D8) who DID receive funding from genesis block 5776140615420062008C :

http://cryptichain.me/address/14247409726405533857C

Example of a launch Delegate (Eden) who DID NOT receive funding from genesis block 5776140615420062008C :

http://cryptichain.me/address/9859538319768690939C

How can these 71 of the 0.2.0 launch Delegates have balances of 89-546 XCR yet be listed as not receiving anything from the Genesis block?  I'm not saying there's a problem, I'm just curious.

Mal, we have been moving around our votes to help vote on Community members. Just to change votes made by the delegates themself, to votes for Community memebers cost a total of 202 XCR. 101 to remove each delegates vote then another 101 to vote for one of you. These accounts hold balances from fees they earn, Im not sure where your seeing a problem?

Keep in mind a delegate is not required to have ANY XCR on them in order to be a delegate. Once they are registered they could maintain 0 XCR on hand and still be a delegate and vote. They would be receiving regular deposits from the rounds they voted on as an active delegate, but that would be the only XCR in those wallets.

[Tobo]

How can these 71 of the 0.2.0 launch Delegates have balances of 89-546 XCR yet be listed as not receiving anything from the Genesis block?  I'm not saying there's a problem, I'm just curious.

If they bought IPO from Bter they would get their coins from Bter instead of the genesis.

[GreXX]

How can these 71 of the 0.2.0 launch Delegates have balances of 89-546 XCR yet be listed as not receiving anything from the Genesis block?  I'm not saying there's a problem, I'm just curious.

If they bought IPO from Bter they would get their coins from Bter instead of the genesis.

I think it's funds from forging as an active delegate since the launch of 0.2.0. The accounts could have started with 0 but have earned fees from any transfers as well as registrations since launch. I don't believe these earned fees are showing up in the transaction history on the blockchain explorer. This might be something we want to look at trying to show, or at least have a spot on the blockchain explorer within a single account that shows career earnings or something to that effect.

[Vagnavs]

Good work, to everyone one who is involved with Crypti. I'm glad I stuck around and held my coins.
Regards,
Brian

Edit: When is cryptsy going to get their act together and update their wallet? Any word on that

[GreXX]

Good work, to everyone one who is involved with Crypti. I'm glad I stuck around and held my coins.
Regards,
Brian

Edit: When is cryptsy going to get their act together and update their wallet? Any word on that

I don't believe we have heard back form Cryptsy in regards to 0.2.0 yet... we will bring it up in our meeting this weekend.

[dzarmush]

Poloniex has updated its wallet

[Litoshi]

How can these 71 of the 0.2.0 launch Delegates have balances of 89-546 XCR yet be listed as not receiving anything from the Genesis block?  I'm not saying there's a problem, I'm just curious.

If they bought IPO from Bter they would get their coins from Bter instead of the genesis.

I think it's funds from forging as an active delegate since the launch of 0.2.0. The accounts could have started with 0 but have earned fees from any transfers as well as registrations since launch. I don't believe these earned fees are showing up in the transaction history on the blockchain explorer. This might be something we want to look at trying to show, or at least have a spot on the blockchain explorer within a single account that shows career earnings or something to that effect.

The transaction history on my wallet shows my transfers but not the fees earned. The balance on the transaction history is correct, and includes the fees earned.

The forging page is the only place to see the total fees earned.  Only the past 20 forged blocks are listed on the forging page. There is not an option to scroll back.  Perhaps a future feature needed here.

[50cent_rapper]

Do you plan to update OP ?

What's going on?

By the way, am I right that nobody can't be voted as a delegate, even if the guy with 8 410 009 XCR (the third wallet) will vote for starik69, it doesn't matter, cause the foundation controlling the majority votes FOREVER

[dzarmush]

Do you plan to update OP ?

What's going on?

By the way, am I right that nobody can't be voted as a delegate, even if the guy with 8 410 009 XCR (the third wallet) will vote for starik69, it doesn't matter, cause the foundation controlling the majority votes FOREVER

Check out few last pages, this question was answered several times.

[starik69]

Check out few last pages, this question was answered several times.

The only answer i saw was "Wait"
BTW, whats this?

There is only Crypti running on this vps

[50cent_rapper]

Do you plan to update OP ?

What's going on?

By the way, am I right that nobody can't be voted as a delegate, even if the guy with 8 410 009 XCR (the third wallet) will vote for starik69, it doesn't matter, cause the foundation controlling the majority votes FOREVER

Check out few last pages, this question was answered several times.

Ok. I have reread the last posts. I've found two answers, each of which is not answering my quistion: Will the foundation be forever the only force, who will decide to whom to be a delegate?

The Delegate Reward Peogram will be started after we fix a few issues, and have a stable network.  The foundation delegates will also to voted down so others can forge.  It was necesary to have delegates with votes higher than what the largest XCR holder could produce.  HINT: Bter has 26 Million XCR still.

This poster just says that if foundation wants it would vote down its delegates. And if it doesn't want it can (HAS AN ABILITY) to be the only power who deciedes.

[starik69]

Oh, 6 delegates!
And some whale upvoted two!
But not enough to became active

[dzarmush]

Do you plan to update OP ?

What's going on?

By the way, am I right that nobody can't be voted as a delegate, even if the guy with 8 410 009 XCR (the third wallet) will vote for starik69, it doesn't matter, cause the foundation controlling the majority votes FOREVER

Check out few last pages, this question was answered several times.

Ok. I have reread the last posts. I've found two answers, each of which is not answering my quistion: Will the foundation be forever the only force, who will decide to whom to be a delegate?

The Delegate Reward Peogram will be started after we fix a few issues, and have a stable network.  The foundation delegates will also to voted down so others can forge.  It was necesary to have delegates with votes higher than what the largest XCR holder could produce.  HINT: Bter has 26 Million XCR still.

This poster just says that if foundation wants it would vote down its delegates. And if it doesn't want it can (HAS AN ABILITY) to be the only power who deciedes.

Theoretically community voting power is 89% compared to the foundation 11%, so everything depends on us.

[Wulfcastle]

Do you plan to update OP ?

What's going on?

By the way, am I right that nobody can't be voted as a delegate, even if the guy with 8 410 009 XCR (the third wallet) will vote for starik69, it doesn't matter, cause the foundation controlling the majority votes FOREVER

Check out few last pages, this question was answered several times.

Ok. I have reread the last posts. I've found two answers, each of which is not answering my quistion: Will the foundation be forever the only force, who will decide to whom to be a delegate?

The Delegate Reward Peogram will be started after we fix a few issues, and have a stable network.  The foundation delegates will also to voted down so others can forge.  It was necesary to have delegates with votes higher than what the largest XCR holder could produce.  HINT: Bter has 26 Million XCR still.

This poster just says that if foundation wants it would vote down its delegates. And if it doesn't want it can (HAS AN ABILITY) to be the only power who deciedes.

Theoretically community voting power is 89% compared to the foundation 11%, so everything depends on us.

Yep, as far as I know that's correct

[GreXX]

This question is going to come up 100 times and I have already answered it personally at least twice, but let me clarify again on some of the issues that have been brought up.

1. We aren't the ones who decided to dump all of our funds, not buy in when the price was low, and allow some people like Mal to hold a large amount of voting power and coins. You could have bought in as easily as anyone during the price drops. BTER alone has 22% of the voting power right now because people continue to leave their funds in the exchange and BTER as far as I can tell isn't voting.

2. Having the foundation delegates be voted so high and having few initial registrations was pretty much expected and intentional at launch. There are several reasons for this. For starters, we needed to make sure that we could control the network at launch in order to make sure it ran properly after deployment. Consider this like main net testing to an extent and it helped us ensure everything looked right. Second, we know the price of registration is high, votes are low right now, and there aren't a lot of new delegates vying. Let's be honest, right now the ROI is very low. I also don't EVER expect 10s of thousands of delegates to be registered. That's not the point of this system. We want dedicated, trustworthy, and dependable members of the community.

3. In regards to the foundation delegates and their voting. Do you think that I want to run 9 nodes and come out of pocket server fees? I am doing it to make sure things get off to a solid start. We each have 9-10 nodes only for the sake of getting the network off the ground and ensuring solid nodes exist to run the network. We will start transitioning off our nodes once we have candidates we believe in. We have a meeting tomorrow and will be determining the first foundation nodes to turn off in order to vote for people like Wulf, Barie, and possibly even HubTM.

4. This network is controlled by the people who have invested in it. That is the point. Anyone who wants more control, or more influence in the network, own a larger share. There are XCR for sale, if you want to be able to have a larger say in who runs the network, buy more, get more people together, find ways to get more votes.

5. Right now, the foundation, between it's individual members and the foundation funds, controls 30% roughly. This is because we each hold quite a bit of funds personally and the foundation still holds the vested funds from the launch (which btw, we are 2 quarters overdue paying the launch team because we were actually waiting to hit milestones and produce a quality product). Once the 11% in the foundation fund are distributed and all foundation members have their personal voting power, we will begin to see divergence in how we vote. All of our voting power was set to push the same nodes at launch so that we could ensure enough existed and BTER couldn't immediately try to usurp the votes. We all bought or earned every single XCR we are using to vote and deservedly cast our votes how we choose. We won't be voting on the exact same delegates forever and most of us don't intend to run more than 2-3 nodes once we get enough candidates to take our places. I personally intend to drop from the 9 required at launch down to a MAXIMUM of 2-3 nodes hosted by me. But this will all be determined by the community.

6. Again, if you don't like how the vote shakes out, buy now while XCR is still cheap and cast your votes elsewhere. Down the road, when we have the DApp Store and Custom Chains completed, we will have a lot more funds flying around, more people joining the network, and it will be much harder to get any considerable weight.

7. I personally believe the registration fee is too high. This will be an action item at our meeting on Sunday. I intend to propose lowering the registration fee to 1,000 XCR to register a delegate. I will also propose refunding the other 9,000 XCR already paid to those who registered prior to the change. After the meeting we will announce any changes. Like anything, it must come to a vote, so there is no guarantee.

8. We will be adding more extensive delegate information including fees earned and more to the Account pages moving forward. Karma is currently working on these changes to CryptiChain.

As always, keep in mind that Crypti is a fluid project currently still in very early stages. We aren't even close to considering ourselves to even be on version 1.0. Being in early has the benefit of XCR still being cheap and it also has the benefit of allowing you to have a large say and better access to the Foundation while we are still a relatively small community. The coins we will easily contend with and possibly far outperform later on have market caps above $10 million. We are currently sitting at a market cap of like $400,000. Now is still the perfect time to invest, get involved, and help us shape the future.

Please feel free to join me and respond to this post on the official forum here: http://forum.crypti.me/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21&p=52#p52

[GreXX]

Also on a side-note, I love BTT and it has allowed us to get where we are today. That being said, I would really like to start transitioning these conversations over to the official forums here: http://forum.crypti.me/index.php

By moving the conversation to the official forums, you can create a topic with the title of your complain or area you want to discuss, I promise Max and I will be active as well as others answering questions, and it will make it MUCH easier for others to find topics that might answer their questions instead of sorting through random pages of BTT chatter.

We are already over there and talking to new delegates, we are just waiting for you all to join us! 

[Malibusparky]

There is a philosophical debate in crypto as to whether pure decentralization is not all its cracked up to be.
I don't know where I stand on it but in Crypti's case it kinda has merit.

Right now the Crypti devs and its team started the DPOS with their own delegates out of necessity.
So it is pretty much centralized. But there is no problem because we have to trust them for now.
I mean how different is it from trusting them with rebooting the network and everything else?

But the question is down the road if this same group can control 30% now then can they always?
Well, that is the power and freedom of DPOS. If right now these people control the majority
because 20 million voters keep their Crypti on Bter and the rest don't vote or lack enough power
then it is what it is.

Actually Nxt has shown to me at least that pure decentralization doesn't work if you want widespread adoption.
IMO Crypti's DPOS has a centralized aspect to it but its whats necessary for it to succeed.
I don't believe a pure decentralized coin can gain popularity.

Right now the dev team controls the delegates because they are the most capable of securing the network.
As their stake dwindles, as others get into Crypti in a more distributed fashion then this changes naturally.

Current delegates want to replace theirs with good community standbys. But they will scrutinize with their votes and
replacements will happen slowly.

The problem now is actually less about decentralization as it is distribution.
The biggest believers in Crypti are the biggest holders/investors. So naturally at the beginning they have the most voting power.
If Crypti survives the long run, 10 years from now the average person has some Crypti in their mobile wallet and there are only
a few whales.

edit: GreXX posted his just before mine, sorry if its redundant a bit but I wrote it and gonna post anyway.

[Litoshi]

Do you plan to update OP ?

What's going on?

By the way, am I right that nobody can't be voted as a delegate, even if the guy with 8 410 009 XCR (the third wallet) will vote for starik69, it doesn't matter, cause the foundation controlling the majority votes FOREVER

Check out few last pages, this question was answered several times.

Ok. I have reread the last posts. I've found two answers, each of which is not answering my quistion: Will the foundation be forever the only force, who will decide to whom to be a delegate?

The Delegate Reward Peogram will be started after we fix a few issues, and have a stable network.  The foundation delegates will also to voted down so others can forge.  It was necesary to have delegates with votes higher than what the largest XCR holder could produce.  HINT: Bter has 26 Million XCR still.

This poster just says that if foundation wants it would vote down its delegates. And if it doesn't want it can (HAS AN ABILITY) to be the only power who deciedes.

Theoretically community voting power is 89% compared to the foundation 11%, so everything depends on us.

Yep, as far as I know that's correct

Yes, look at the top accounts........ Bter still has 18.9 million in the cold wallet, and 3.9 million in the hot wallet.  If you guys would get your XCR out of Bter, there would be more voting power.  

The 11 million wallet is the foundation.  

The delegates have 31 million votes because that is the combined XCR of all of the devs.  15 million of that was purchased from Bter and Polo since the IPO.  There is still additional XCR we have on the exchanges, bc we are still buying.

Did you notice that the recent created delegates have been voted up.  Last night, Matt, Eric and I changed our votes to vote for the new guys and down voted the foundation spare nodes.  Our plan is for community involvement.

The public has nearly 70 million votes, and can push every dev delegate out.  

We would like to see more community involvement.  

If you look at the list of accounts Mal posted a few pages back, you will see that half the accounts have 1 XCR or less.  Another 250 have 50 XCR only, from the faucet.  Most of the public voting power is tied up in Bter with a few whales and minnows that dont keep up with the changes in XCR; and are just checking the price daily.  

[Malibusparky]

Also on a side-note, I love BTT and it has allowed us to get where we are today. That being said, I would really like to start transitioning these conversations over to the official forums here: http://forum.crypti.me/index.php

By moving the conversation to the official forums, you can create a topic with the title of your complain or area you want to discuss, I promise Max and I will be active as well as others answering questions, and it will make it MUCH easier for others to find topics that might answer their questions instead of sorting through random pages of BTT chatter.

We are already over there and talking to new delegates, we are just waiting for you all to join us! 

Yes this is important. I will join later and possibly advertise as a delegate once I can assure a reliable node.

[Passion_ltc]

There is a philosophical debate in crypto as to whether pure decentralization is not all its cracked up to be.
I don't know where I stand on it but in Crypti's case it kinda has merit.

Right now the Crypti devs and its team started the DPOS with their own delegates out of necessity.
So it is pretty much centralized. But there is no problem because we have to trust them for now.
I mean how different is it from trusting them with rebooting the network and everything else?

But the question is down the road if this same group can control 30% now then can they always?
Well, that is the power and freedom of DPOS. If right now these people control the majority
because 20 million voters keep their Crypti on Bter and the rest don't vote or lack enough power
then it is what it is.

Actually Nxt has shown to me at least that pure decentralization doesn't work if you want widespread adoption.
IMO Crypti's DPOS has a centralized aspect to it but its whats necessary for it to succeed.
I don't believe a pure decentralized coin can gain popularity.

Right now the dev team controls the delegates because they are the most capable of securing the network.
As their stake dwindles, as others get into Crypti in a more distributed fashion then this changes naturally.

Current delegates want to replace theirs with good community standbys. But they will scrutinize with their votes and
replacements will happen slowly.

The problem now is actually less about decentralization as it is distribution.
The biggest believers in Crypti are the biggest holders/investors. So naturally at the beginning they have the most voting power.
If Crypti survives the long run, 10 years from now the average person has some Crypti in their mobile wallet and there are only
a few whales.

edit: GreXX posted his just before mine, sorry if its redundant a bit but I wrote it and gonna post anyway.

I have a few million XCR and ALL were bought by myself. 50% of them at 1900 satoshis and the other 50% at 500 satoshis. I personally invested over 20 BTC into Crypti and many hours of work.

I guarantee you, that I will vote for reliable nodes. In the long run I want that every person only has 2 delegates at most and I will vote accordingly.

On the other hand you can also believe, that I will sell some if the price goes up, in order to get my initial investment back or pay for a holiday. This will lead to a better distribution.