NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs

[Neversettle]

We might never know exactly what did lead to the loss of the coins from CC.

I know fungibility is one of the key facts in Crypto. But what are the actions right now ?

Sure the foundation could just do nothing and let the markets collapse when the hacker is selling, but how would that help anyone involved.

In a true decentralized way, there is no possibilty to just hardfork and move on like ETH did.

How I get it is, that the devs try to flag the accounts and make it at least harder to sell the stolen coins. They can just help sending those mosaics, but anyone could develop such a tool and send mosaics. Whether it helps the exchanges in the longrun is not in the hands of the foundation. But that´s a good thing. They can´t "solve" this issue, but doing their best.

I would love to hear your solution/way to do it better

The best (re)action "right now" is doing nothing.

Don't try to "help."  That is counterproductive.

Those who formerly had NEM on a vulnerable exchange deserve to lose their coins.  They are by definition weak hands for letting someone take their coins.

Helping them with convoluted, unworkable tainting nonsense only encourages them to make the same mistake again.

They need tough love so they learn a lesson, not indulgence so they learn to depend on bailouts.

The best thing is for the stolen coins to be redistributed into stronger hands.  The attacker has already taken the first step by helping himself to the weaklings' coins.

The next step is to sell them off and hope NEM is antifragile enough to survive and emerge stronger from the harsh lessons in security and fungibility.

The hacker or whatever must be rewarded for finding the vulnerability, or it will discourage others from pen-testing.  The mechanism for that to happen is for those with empty bags to pay the hacker to refill them.  The re-buyers will thus have more skin in the game and not be so greedy and careless in the future.  That goes for the exchange as well as its customers.

NEM devs and community must also work on making their coin fungible and their network permissionless and decentralized.

But they don't want to do that.  Every architectural and organizational governance design decision shows NEM is fully intended to be the vanity project of one Satoshi-wannabe guy.

If Bitcoin can recover from dozens of MtGoxes and be stronger than ever WTF is NEM's excuse for treating its users like little babies who must be mollycoddled and protected from the consequences of their poor decisions?

Look to Bitcoin's history for an example of leaderless governance and antifragility to emulate.  Look to Monero for an example of 100% fungible (IE cannot be tainted) coins moving through a permissionless (IE can't be evil) network.

First of all. I like your point.

I lost no coins at the exchange and even if I had, i would agree to see this as a necessary lesson.

There is just a huge difference right now regarding people involved in crypto.

I think most people letting their coins sit on an exchange aren´t really interested to actually use the coin or the vision of the project. The mentality is more and more shifting to the "get quick rich scheme".

So I do agree that a kind of survival of the fittest in darwins vision wouldn´t harm crypto. I have no doubt that even if the hacker would drop all the stolen coins, NEM would recover and a really big part would be shifted to stronger hands.

But I don´t think the foundation is the 100% right one to blame. I think many exchanges demanded to "resolve" the issue, to not have to sell stolen coins. ( I don´t exactly know why the do even care). And the flagging approach might be a way to at least track those coins. But I really like that NEM is neither forking nor the foundation has the possibility to halt the network.

I think the right way would have been to just been to give all the responsibility to CC and let them try to handle it. It´s actually a quite large of coins in % so I would like to see them in circulation again. But that might be a good point to improve, if the chance is taken right

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[iCEBREAKER]

To the people worried about fungibility, they need to remember that this blacklist via tagging is not centrally enforceable. It is an opt-in tool that exchanges can use to avoid stolen XEM at THEIR discretion.

If coins may be blacklisted, they are not fungible.   It has nothing to do with centralization, opt-in, or discretion.

There mere fact it is possible for anyone to blacklist coins proves the coins are not fungible.

Truly fungible coins cannot be blacklisted.  Look into the Monero literature for more details.

[Neversettle]

Its totally coinchecks fault, and cointelegraph incorrectly reported that NEM has no multisig in the news article, hence the hack happened.

The truth is that Coincheck were the ones lazy and had no multisig contract.

foolsih for an exchange not to use this.
Anyway, NEM technology has proven itself as secure.

at least there is the possibility that they lost a huge amount of their own stash ( 300m they bought 2016)

[patmast3r]

To the people worried about fungibility, they need to remember that this blacklist via tagging is not centrally enforceable. It is an opt-in tool that exchanges can use to avoid stolen XEM at THEIR discretion.

If coins may be blacklisted, they are not fungible.   It has nothing to do with centralization, opt-in, or discretion.

There mere fact it is possible for anyone to blacklist coins proves the coins are not fungible.

Truly fungible coins cannot be blacklisted.  Look into the Monero literature for more details.

The ignorance displayed in your post is beyond believe. Let me try to clear this up for anyone that is about to believe this.

What they are doing is not actually blacklisting funds. They are writing a service that will automatically send a mosaic, which is what nem's on_chain assets are called, to every account that receives funds from the hacker. All that does is mark the account for other people so THEY can decide whether or not to accept those funds. It's basically like me saying I won't accept iCREBEAKERSs shitty monero because he's spreading FUD. That is my right and it has nothing to do with central authority.
All they are doing is helping others identify hacked funds, that's it. It is up to everyone to decide whether or not to accept them.
They are also not using any central authority to issue said mosaics. Anyone could write a similar service and do the exact same thing and it would again, be up to everyone to accept or not accept those funds.

So go spread your FUD somewhere else.

[asdlolciterquit]

really sad to read about that hacking and loss

and sadder it to read users who blame xem and even talk about an inside job. Hope that this great community and project will recover soon!

[Alohaboy?!]

To the people worried about fungibility, they need to remember that this blacklist via tagging is not centrally enforceable. It is an opt-in tool that exchanges can use to avoid stolen XEM at THEIR discretion.

If coins may be blacklisted, they are not fungible.   It has nothing to do with centralization, opt-in, or discretion.

There mere fact it is possible for anyone to blacklist coins proves the coins are not fungible.

Truly fungible coins cannot be blacklisted.  Look into the Monero literature for more details.

The ignorance displayed in your post is beyond believe. Let me try to clear this up for anyone that is about to believe this.

What they are doing is not actually blacklisting funds. They are writing a service that will automatically send a mosaic, which is what nem's on_chain assets are called, to every account that receives funds from the hacker. All that does is mark the account for other people so THEY can decide whether or not to accept those funds. It's basically like me saying I won't accept iCREBEAKERSs shitty monero because he's spreading FUD. That is my right and it has nothing to do with central authority.
All they are doing is helping others identify hacked funds, that's it. It is up to everyone to decide whether or not to accept them.
They are also not using any central authority to issue said mosaics. Anyone could write a similar service and do the exact same thing and it would again, be up to everyone to accept or not accept those funds.

So go spread your FUD somewhere else.

thanks for your statement. Well appreciated

[fragout]

any attempt at cashing out these coins will immediately reveal who it was

Nope. That's only true if every single exchange, ICO, etc that supports NEM is MANUALLY tracking the stolen XEM and manually blacklisting in real time which is simply not going to happen. Even if so, many exchanges don't require verification so it wouldn't reveal who attempted to cash out.

Even with the tagging system, chances are there will be some exchanges that won't utilize it.

Actually according to jeff in his interview , its a very easy process to see if any tagged coins enter their system. Its just a matter of adding some code to their api and its all done automatically.
I don't see why all exchanges wouldn't do it as they are opening up themselves to money laundering charges if they start selling stolen coins.

Hard fork seems to be a no no also which is good news.

Best bet for hacker is to seek a bounty and return the funds

[nemwanderer]

any attempt at cashing out these coins will immediately reveal who it was

Nope. That's only true if every single exchange, ICO, etc that supports NEM is MANUALLY tracking the stolen XEM and manually blacklisting in real time which is simply not going to happen. Even if so, many exchanges don't require verification so it wouldn't reveal who attempted to cash out.

Even with the tagging system, chances are there will be some exchanges that won't utilize it.

Actually according to jeff in his interview , its a very easy process to see if any tagged coins enter their system. Its just a matter of adding some code to their api and its all done automatically.
I don't see why all exchanges wouldn't do it as they are opening up themselves to money laundering charges if they start selling stolen coins.

Hard fork seems to be a no no also which is good news.

Best bet for hacker is to seek a bounty and return the funds

NEM is in danger of falling off the map here. Team needs to do something big. Is catapult ever happening? Wasn’t it supposed to be last August?

[smart757]

To the people worried about fungibility, they need to remember that this blacklist via tagging is not centrally enforceable. It is an opt-in tool that exchanges can use to avoid stolen XEM at THEIR discretion.

If coins may be blacklisted, they are not fungible.   It has nothing to do with centralization, opt-in, or discretion.

There mere fact it is possible for anyone to blacklist coins proves the coins are not fungible.

Truly fungible coins cannot be blacklisted.  Look into the Monero literature for more details.

The ignorance displayed in your post is beyond believe. Let me try to clear this up for anyone that is about to believe this.

What they are doing is not actually blacklisting funds. They are writing a service that will automatically send a mosaic, which is what nem's on_chain assets are called, to every account that receives funds from the hacker. All that does is mark the account for other people so THEY can decide whether or not to accept those funds. It's basically like me saying I won't accept iCREBEAKERSs shitty monero because he's spreading FUD. That is my right and it has nothing to do with central authority.
All they are doing is helping others identify hacked funds, that's it. It is up to everyone to decide whether or not to accept them.
They are also not using any central authority to issue said mosaics. Anyone could write a similar service and do the exact same thing and it would again, be up to everyone to accept or not accept those funds.

So go spread your FUD somewhere else.

The guy sounds like a toolbag with an axe to grind. Maybe he was a sockpuppet holder and got outed, and he's super salty about it. Either that or he's just a mega monero fanboi and has a stop liking what i don't like attitude. Either way he comes across as a bitter idiot. I doubt anyone takes what he's saying seriously.

[patmast3r]

any attempt at cashing out these coins will immediately reveal who it was

Nope. That's only true if every single exchange, ICO, etc that supports NEM is MANUALLY tracking the stolen XEM and manually blacklisting in real time which is simply not going to happen. Even if so, many exchanges don't require verification so it wouldn't reveal who attempted to cash out.

Even with the tagging system, chances are there will be some exchanges that won't utilize it.

Actually according to jeff in his interview , its a very easy process to see if any tagged coins enter their system. Its just a matter of adding some code to their api and its all done automatically.
I don't see why all exchanges wouldn't do it as they are opening up themselves to money laundering charges if they start selling stolen coins.

Hard fork seems to be a no no also which is good news.

Best bet for hacker is to seek a bounty and return the funds

NEM is in danger of falling off the map here. Team needs to do something big. Is catapult ever happening? Wasn’t it supposed to be last August?

And why is it in danger all of a sudden ?
It was supposed to happen for mijin, end of last year and it did. Public chain get's it at some point this year.

I found this to be a surprisingly pleasant coverage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoEjlVHDVVk

[gentlemand]

I’d like to see gentlemand’s response to this.

I've had that vituperative psycho on ignore since before you were an itch in your father's testes. It may have valid points. Good luck to it.

http://corporate.coincheck.com/2018/01/28/30.html

All of Coincheck's customers will be refunded in the JPY value of their XEM.

[NorrisK]

I’d like to see gentlemand’s response to this.

I've had that vituperative psycho on ignore since before you were an itch in your father's testes. It may have valid points. Good luck to it.

http://corporate.coincheck.com/2018/01/28/30.html

All of Coincheck's customers will be refunded in the JPY value of their XEM.

Can you explain to me how they are planning to reimburse 300-400 million USD worth to their customers?

Or was a large part in hands of themselves or several large holders that they made private arrangements with?

[gentlemand]

Can you explain to me how they are planning to reimburse 300-400 million USD worth to their customers?

Or was a large part in hands of themselves or several large holders that they made private arrangements with?

Only 10% of the amount stolen was customer funds. The rest were theirs. Still a lot of money but any successful exchange should be making far more than $50 million per year in profit.

[selectnumber123]

any attempt at cashing out these coins will immediately reveal who it was

Nope. That's only true if every single exchange, ICO, etc that supports NEM is MANUALLY tracking the stolen XEM and manually blacklisting in real time which is simply not going to happen. Even if so, many exchanges don't require verification so it wouldn't reveal who attempted to cash out.

Even with the tagging system, chances are there will be some exchanges that won't utilize it.

Actually according to jeff in his interview , its a very easy process to see if any tagged coins enter their system. Its just a matter of adding some code to their api and its all done automatically.
I don't see why all exchanges wouldn't do it as they are opening up themselves to money laundering charges if they start selling stolen coins.

Hard fork seems to be a no no also which is good news.

Best bet for hacker is to seek a bounty and return the funds

NEM is in danger of falling off the map here. Team needs to do something big. Is catapult ever happening? Wasn’t it supposed to be last August?

It's nothing to do with the price of the NEM, but people will become distrustful of the exchange because people think the exchange can not protect their assets and will only make a short redemption

[tbandy]

I am seeing that NEM is getting back alive I am wondering if they (COINCHECK) had recover some of the stolen coin or what ? 

[nemwanderer]

I am seeing that NEM is getting back alive I am wondering if they (COINCHECK) had recover some of the stolen coin or what ? 

Yeah why’s it coming back?

[iCEBREAKER]

To the people worried about fungibility, they need to remember that this blacklist via tagging is not centrally enforceable. It is an opt-in tool that exchanges can use to avoid stolen XEM at THEIR discretion.

If coins may be blacklisted, they are not fungible.   It has nothing to do with centralization, opt-in, or discretion.

There mere fact it is possible for anyone to blacklist coins proves the coins are not fungible.

Truly fungible coins cannot be blacklisted.  Look into the Monero literature for more details.

The ignorance displayed in your post is beyond believe. Let me try to clear this up for anyone that is about to believe this.

What they are doing is not actually blacklisting funds. They are writing a service that will automatically send a mosaic, which is what nem's on_chain assets are called, to every account that receives funds from the hacker. All that does is mark the account for other people so THEY can decide whether or not to accept those funds. It's basically like me saying I won't accept iCREBEAKERSs shitty monero because he's spreading FUD. That is my right and it has nothing to do with central authority.
All they are doing is helping others identify hacked funds, that's it. It is up to everyone to decide whether or not to accept them.
They are also not using any central authority to issue said mosaics. Anyone could write a similar service and do the exact same thing and it would again, be up to everyone to accept or not accept those funds.

So go spread your FUD somewhere else.

I'd love to see you try to blacklist my "shitty monero" or mark my accounts.  

The fact is you can't.  Not even fluffypony (the git repo maintainer) has the power to do that, hence Monero is truly fungible.

You need to learn about stealth and sub addresses, ring signatures, and Confidential Transactions.

Stop blathering about "muh automatic mosaics" as if anyone cares about that try-hard me-too Layer One bloatware.

This isn't your NEM forum safe space.  Your nonsense won't survive Bitcoinntalk, which is the crucible that burns impurities like the NEM scam to ash and carbon, leaving only the gold behind.

[LiQio]

^
iCY, why so angry?

[greentea]

I'd love to see you try to blacklist my "@!$#@$ monero" or mark my accounts.  

The fact is you can't.  Not even fluffypony (the git repo maintainer) has the power to do that, hence Monero is truly fungible.

You need to learn about stealth and sub addresses, ring signatures, and Confidential Transactions.

Stop blathering about "muh automatic mosaics" as if anyone cares about that try-hard me-too Layer One bloatware.

This isn't your NEM forum safe space.  Your nonsense won't survive Bitcoinntalk, which is the crucible that burns impurities like the NEM scam to ash and carbon, leaving only the gold behind.

NEM's goal was never to be a privacy coin.  You're comparing apples to oranges.  

Mosaics, namespaces, Apostille etc... are all used to track/digitize real world assets, something a privacy coin cannot do.  

[Big Naturals]

I'd love to see you try to blacklist my "@!$#@$ monero" or mark my accounts.  

The fact is you can't.  Not even fluffypony (the git repo maintainer) has the power to do that, hence Monero is truly fungible.

You need to learn about stealth and sub addresses, ring signatures, and Confidential Transactions.

Stop blathering about "muh automatic mosaics" as if anyone cares about that try-hard me-too Layer One bloatware.

This isn't your NEM forum safe space.  Your nonsense won't survive Bitcoinntalk, which is the crucible that burns impurities like the NEM scam to ash and carbon, leaving only the gold behind.

NEM's goal was never to be a privacy coin.  You're comparing apples to oranges.  

Mosaics, namespaces, Apostille etc... are all used to track/digitize real world assets, something a privacy coin cannot do.  

Exactly, use XMR when privacy is needed, but opaque blockchains aren't suitable for many use-cases, so smart people realise there is a need for many types of DLT's.

Guys like iCEBREAKER treat XMR like a religion (there can only be ONE true crypto), and fungibility like a commandment handed down from God. Yes, fungibility is important, but anyone who puts all their eggs in that basket is a crazy zealot. NEM has a target market, and for them the feature set is awesome.