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Author Topic: Bitmark  (Read 602538 times)
AJMiles
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September 20, 2014, 09:30:32 PM
 #1461

I like everything about what I am reading in the OP. Great work on research and development for further improvements of the industry.

I am willing to help spread the word with a few of my team members in the marketing area. What part of marketing do you need a hand in?
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mike88
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September 20, 2014, 09:48:57 PM
 #1462

this coin is rising and rising .
As I said it the 10 dollar mark will soon reach .
BTM to the moooooon
i like this coin !!!! Grin
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September 20, 2014, 09:52:50 PM
 #1463

I like everything about what I am reading in the OP. Great work on research and development for further improvements of the industry.

I am willing to help spread the word with a few of my team members in the marketing area. What part of marketing do you need a hand in?

Thank you for your kind offer. We don't really need any help with marketing yet, word of mouth is fine.

Perhaps you would like to join our discussions on slack and see what happens, we do have several future websites, services, and ideas which will benefit from marketing in different forms. We also have many people setting up businesses based on marking or with support, they may well benefit from your skills.

Thank you again,

Mark

Bitmark (reputation+money) : Bitmark v0.9.4 (release)
eKiTeL
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September 20, 2014, 10:14:03 PM
 #1464

does the calculator reflect current diff?  http://bitmark.co/miningspeed


I threw a lot of hash power at this yesterday BEFORE it went on BITTREX and then a few hours laters I was drowned out.  Knowing more or less when a coin will be listed is very helpful!  It was pretty obvious a few hours before $JBS went up that it would happen and the network hash power started going up BEFORE the listing.  At least it didn't go through the roof until AFTER $BTM was listed.

also does diff retargeting mean that it will go down now that network hash rate is way down again?


No one who has anything to do with BTM had any idea whatsoever that Bitmark was to be listed on Bittrex. Our communications with them were never good.

And yes, the difficulty will likely be current difficultly / 4 next retarget. Smiley


which block is that?  and does that calculator reflect diff?
coinsolidation
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September 20, 2014, 10:46:40 PM
 #1465

does the calculator reflect current diff?  http://bitmark.co/miningspeed


I threw a lot of hash power at this yesterday BEFORE it went on BITTREX and then a few hours laters I was drowned out.  Knowing more or less when a coin will be listed is very helpful!  It was pretty obvious a few hours before $JBS went up that it would happen and the network hash power started going up BEFORE the listing.  At least it didn't go through the roof until AFTER $BTM was listed.

also does diff retargeting mean that it will go down now that network hash rate is way down again?


No one who has anything to do with BTM had any idea whatsoever that Bitmark was to be listed on Bittrex. Our communications with them were never good.

And yes, the difficulty will likely be current difficultly / 4 next retarget. Smiley

which block is that?  and does that calculator reflect diff?

The difficulty will change at block 42480, the calculator does not reflect difficulty. I have changed the text on it to read as follows:

"This tool will predict how many bitmarks you can mine in one mining day (period of 720 blocks) for any given network speed."

Which is more accurate.

Bitmark (reputation+money) : Bitmark v0.9.4 (release)
irlandescoin
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September 21, 2014, 01:45:46 AM
 #1466

up

back here after the boom in 2013
melvster
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September 21, 2014, 08:28:34 AM
 #1467


Finally, I have about 400k marks (400 BTM), this month I have given away 1.5 million marks to people with good ideas, who have helped, bought servers for people, all kinds of things, and I have more marks now than  at the start of the month. When you understand how this has happened, you will understand how marking fundamentally changes the way we live, and why we have an ever growing community.

I too am finding that the more marks I give away the more I end up with.

It's a crazy paradigm shift that I'm only just starting to get my head round!
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September 21, 2014, 11:28:15 AM
 #1468

mike88
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September 21, 2014, 11:34:36 AM
 #1469

no panic friends .
Today is Sunday . the people need money and pay their profits from .
As of tonight , we go back go next step 1BTM = 0.00250 BTC ...
I think tonight will drop the $ 1 mark .
and then the super week starts .
 Grin
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September 21, 2014, 11:41:47 AM
 #1470

I do not think that this coin is a bubble .
who say that only want the price drops so they can buy cheap
coinsolidation
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September 21, 2014, 02:09:15 PM
 #1471

Wearable Wallets / Marking to Clothing / Pay to T-Shirt

The idea is that you can mark content on the web, on a phone, via email, geo located, on the internet of things, or in the real world (anything with an IRI, which to say, anything).  The concept of a mark is a show of approval, and the recipient can in turn, mark other users etc.

This has a payment element and a reputational element.  The idea of marking is money+reputation.

My use case is in regard to the marking of real world clothing.  To mark clothing a unique identifier is preferred.  It would be possible to mark to a QR code which contains enough entropy to store an identifier.  But relatively few people would want to wear clothing with a QR code on it.

The solution to this would be to design unique fashion items such as T-Shirts, trousers and other items of clothing such that the design could be translated, via an algorithm, to a machine readable identifier.

Each item of clothing would be a unique fashion statement but also carry transferrable reputation of the wearer.  A web based ledger can be used to see how much that item has been marked, when the marking was carried out, and who it was by.  Either by a known individual, or anonymously.

It would be possible to send transfers to the clothing items using the web payments specification and/or crypto currencies over the internet, using a internet connected device, such as a computer, mobile phone, tablet or web enabled eye wear.

The owner of the garment is able to look up online, the marking of values of that item.  Furthermore, an app on a mobile device would allow the wearer to receive updates in real time which would notify the user via sound or a vibration.

In this way individuals are able to know when they are dressed well and when it is appreciated by others. It can be possible to quantitatively discover which designs suit the wearer most.  And it can perhaps also lead to interesting social situations or friendly rivalry.

Charity Use-case
Every charity may have markable clothing, imagine the great charity marathon's of the world where every runner has a markable t-shirt with the funds going straight to the charity.

Or for common wear, where a t-shirt you wear to support a good cause, when marked is a donation to the charity.

Auto forwarding could be used, so the person get's the reputation increment whilst the charity gets the transferred marks.

First Designs

The designer momoshi momoshi is currently working on many prototypes and concepts, here are a few he has given us today.







Bitmark (reputation+money) : Bitmark v0.9.4 (release)
klopper
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September 21, 2014, 02:20:03 PM
 #1472

LOVE IT! Great idea, and really cool designs! Can't wait to get something like this! Cheesy
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September 21, 2014, 02:34:20 PM
Last edit: September 21, 2014, 02:59:26 PM by 82ndabnmedic
 #1473

Awesome Designs...Cannot wait until I can buy one

The embeded QR Code is great..Being able to get Marked by the clothes you wear is very cool!

What does Marking not turn on it's head!!


CISSP | PMP | CEH

Bitmark: Project Manager & PR Coordinator


BTC: 1FEi8MSP3ccoqLah8EcxfGZVHUViEmQfvQ

BTM: bNidDXnRu5fuD8Th7cPFh7jnPdyAhMh7Nr
eldinhadz
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September 21, 2014, 03:34:47 PM
 #1474

There is a new Pool for Bitmark out. Would be nice if you add it to the Pool list

https://poolwarz.com/

emdje
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September 21, 2014, 03:35:27 PM
 #1475

Like the idea, I would buy one (if that is possible in the Netherlands).
The QR code could be the bottom square of the "love-Mark"  Smiley
82ndabnmedic
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September 21, 2014, 04:14:55 PM
 #1476

Like the idea, I would buy one (if that is possible in the Netherlands).
The QR code could be the bottom square of the "love-Mark"  Smiley

My understanding is that the code is already embedded in the logo

CISSP | PMP | CEH

Bitmark: Project Manager & PR Coordinator


BTC: 1FEi8MSP3ccoqLah8EcxfGZVHUViEmQfvQ

BTM: bNidDXnRu5fuD8Th7cPFh7jnPdyAhMh7Nr
coinsolidation
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September 21, 2014, 04:37:12 PM
 #1477

Wearable Wallets / Marking to Clothing / Pay to T-Shirt

The idea is that you can mark content on the web, on a phone, via email, geo located, on the internet of things, or in the real world (anything with an IRI, which to say, anything).  The concept of a mark is a show of approval, and the recipient can in turn, mark other users etc.

This has a payment element and a reputational element.  The idea of marking is money+reputation.

My use case is in regard to the marking of real world clothing.  To mark clothing a unique identifier is preferred.  It would be possible to mark to a QR code which contains enough entropy to store an identifier.  But relatively few people would want to wear clothing with a QR code on it.

The solution to this would be to design unique fashion items such as T-Shirts, trousers and other items of clothing such that the design could be translated, via an algorithm, to a machine readable identifier.

Each item of clothing would be a unique fashion statement but also carry transferrable reputation of the wearer.  A web based ledger can be used to see how much that item has been marked, when the marking was carried out, and who it was by.  Either by a known individual, or anonymously.

It would be possible to send transfers to the clothing items using the web payments specification and/or crypto currencies over the internet, using a internet connected device, such as a computer, mobile phone, tablet or web enabled eye wear.

The owner of the garment is able to look up online, the marking of values of that item.  Furthermore, an app on a mobile device would allow the wearer to receive updates in real time which would notify the user via sound or a vibration.

In this way individuals are able to know when they are dressed well and when it is appreciated by others. It can be possible to quantitatively discover which designs suit the wearer most.  And it can perhaps also lead to interesting social situations or friendly rivalry.

Charity Use-case
Every charity may have markable clothing, imagine the great charity marathon's of the world where every runner has a markable t-shirt with the funds going straight to the charity.

Or for common wear, where a t-shirt you wear to support a good cause, when marked is a donation to the charity.

Auto forwarding could be used, so the person get's the reputation increment whilst the charity gets the transferred marks.

First Designs

The designer momoshi momoshi is currently working on many prototypes and concepts, here are a few he has given us today.








To confirm, each design is unique and is essentially a well designed qr code, so the design comprises the entropy which identifies the wallet.

Bitmark (reputation+money) : Bitmark v0.9.4 (release)
mike88
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September 21, 2014, 07:59:30 PM
 #1478

what a nice design!!!

the price will rise ... time to buy some BTM  Cheesy

dev+1
 Grin
emdje
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September 21, 2014, 08:10:21 PM
 #1479

what a nice design!!!

the price will rise ... time to buy some BTM  Cheesy

dev+1
 Grin

It is slightly overbought right now, so first a correction downwards and then up again Smiley
coinsolidation
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September 21, 2014, 08:18:41 PM
 #1480

Copy and Paste from Slack, one of many conversations we have each day.

markpfennig [6:41 PM]
@busoni: hi

busoni [6:41 PM]
Hello

busoni [6:41 PM]
So, the area I'm still fuzzy on is the interaction between marking and the blockchain.

busoni [6:43 PM]
As I understand it so far, when you mark someone, you send some information to a node via the new API

busoni [6:44 PM]
Then what happens--is the information worked into the blockchain?

markpfennig [6:45 PM]
okay, there are two interactions
1. consider the block chain to be the glue between implementations, much as it is currently the glue between poloniex and bittrex, where transactions (trades in your case) are handled off change, but the funds represented can be swapped between different providers
2. every so often a set of markings is hashed up to a merkle root, and that hash used in a blockchain transaction  to timestamp it and give some accountability to the off chain transactions

markpfennig [6:46 PM]
then later
3. management of funds in each implementation will optionally be swapped out for key management, allowing marking implementations to send transactions (withdraws and deposts) through a web interface of p2p bitmark nodes

markpfennig [6:47 PM]
so markings are all off chain, as your trades are, but with some accountability on the chain, and the chain as glue between implementations / integrations. In this way we scale massively and are not constrained by block size or chain size, since each integration/implementation handles it's own set of marking data

busoni [6:47 PM]
So what Bitmark offers that BTC doesn't is this accountability?

markpfennig [6:51 PM]
No, that can be done on any chain :grinning:
What Bitmark BTM offers is as follows
1. we're balanced as per the original goals of Bitcoin the paper
2. we don't have any untested tech or greed at the core
3. we have unlimited scope to add what we need, with adoption driving innovation rather than innovation driving adoption
4. we're not targeted at investors or aiming to be some financial market dominated currency, we're more interested in having everybody have 1 BTM each
5. simply, we don't have any constraints using other "coins" would impose, the mark in marking is the mark from btm (0.001 BTM), and whatever marking requires from a cryptocurrency will be implemented as needed

markpfennig [6:53 PM]
anything we do create at crypto level, can be ported back and used on other coins, even our HTTP API for release in Q1 2015 will be included in supernet, and can be patched on to other currencies as needed (edited)

amarha [6:54 PM]
this is a question in the FAQ i'm working on related to this:

amarha [6:54 PM]
Why create a new implementation of Bitcoin, why not just build on top of Bitcoin?

We felt that in order for our project to develop further innovations, and implement other proven open source technologies, it was essential that we had an alternative blockchain that freed us from any political issues that arise regarding the modification of the Bitcoin protocol. Our first relevant example being the intention to modify the Bitmark network nodes to provide a RESTful API. Another future consideration is the likelihood that our Marking technology will benefit from the implementation of side chain technology currently being developed by Adam Back.

amarha [6:55 PM]
bitcoin development might eventually decide to implement marking, but only if it's already successful i would imagine

markpfennig [6:55 PM]
additionally we don't aim to compete with alt coins, more standardize what they're doing. If our user base later demands something like 'anon' at the core, then we'll find the best solution, ensure it's matured and add it to the core. We're not trying to innovate to compete with alts.

busoni [6:55 PM]
What exactly do you mean by "implement marking"

markpfennig [6:56 PM]
Marking is a web level protocol

busoni [6:56 PM]
It sounds like it's pretty separate from the blockchain to me, though

markpfennig [6:56 PM]
it is!

markpfennig [6:56 PM]
@busoni: have you read https://github.com/project-bitmark/marking/wiki ?
 
GitHub
project-bitmark/marking
marking - Future home of Marking

amarha [6:56 PM]
eventually the each node will be involved, also the issue of mass writing data to the blockchain as seen in the issue with counterparty and many of the core bitcoin devs

busoni [6:57 PM]
So what would it mean for Bitcoin to "implement marking" if it's separate from the blockchain?

amarha [6:58 PM]
integrate the changes to the nodes i think would probably be necessary eventually, but mark knows better than me

markpfennig [6:58 PM]
It would be the inverse, to allow Marking to use bitcoin, which will be enabled later on once it is mature, and once all requirements of a coin daemon have been defined and implemented.
Likely it will require a patch to the core to include the HTTP API we create, and a couple of lines to change in marking implementations

markpfennig [6:59 PM]
from day 1 we have included amount+unit so it can be used with any crypto, or perhaps even fiat, or apples and oranges and grains of rice (edited)

busoni [6:59 PM]
And this accountability on the blockchain -- does that require a special modification?

markpfennig [7:00 PM]
to be determined, I'll be able to answer that succinctly in the next few weeks, it may well require a modification to transactions, but hopefully not if we can get away with it

amarha [7:00 PM]
so far every effort has been made as far as i know to keep bitmark 100% backwards compatible with bitcoin

pabloangello [7:01 PM]
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByDff6wCcAAgrKd.jpg:large (20KB)


pabloangello [7:01 PM]
lol nice

nocoins [7:01 PM]
Not a fan :confused:

pabloangello [7:01 PM]
with this dots it looks like Panda :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

markpfennig [7:01 PM]
@busoni: interestingly the approach may be applicable to you at poloniex, it may provide a way for you to expose chained trades together and have them timestamped in the chain, it's kind of like a sidechain which needs no mining

amarha [7:02 PM]
couple other FAQ's in the works:

amarha [7:02 PM]
What is Marking?

Marking is a web-scale platform for the future of the web(the semantic web or web 3.0). It enables the distribution of marks(one mark is also 0.001 BTM) in a frictionless and viral manner. It’s also reputation+trust system backed by cryptocurrency. In it’s simplest form it can be viewed as spendable karma that people share for creating and sharing content, or as a microtransaction platform. As the system evolves, more complex trust systems can be built on top of marking. One example is our plan to integrate Martti Malmi’s(sirius on bitcointalk) Identfi project in to marking. The marking data is extensible, and the possibilities of how marking can be used are unlimited.

Why marking?

Project Bitmark started as a project that was focused on making cryptocurrency accessible and usable as a daily use currency. Marking is our first major initiative to make that happen. (edited)

markpfennig [7:02 PM]
s/out/our

amarha [7:03 PM]
it's still early alpha :stuck_out_tongue:

amarha [7:03 PM]
What can be marked?

Anything. Although if you wanted to mark a location, you might mark it with the minimum amount possible, as a way to register your mark on the network so that data can be used by the many services that might make use of your location mark. Whereas in a p2p marking transaction in certain situations, such as marking someones music, or art, the value of your marking(or the value you're receiving from being marked) could be much higher.

What do you mean by marking is reputation?

All the marks that a person, a place, an object, or an abstract concept even receives gets recorded in the local database of that marking integration. From there each and every marking that takes place is hashed as a Merkle Tree and included in the Bitmark blockchain. So the marking data can be verified, shared, consulted, analysed or downloaded forever.

amarha [7:04 PM]
roughly correct Mark?

busoni [7:04 PM]
Does this depend on the honesty of the sites/service implementing marking?

busoni [7:04 PM]
Say one site lets you mark a location... then another site lets you mark the same location.

busoni [7:05 PM]
Will the location have two marks, somehow? Will they be combined?

markpfennig [7:05 PM]
wonderful questions :smile:

busoni [7:05 PM]
And if so, what's to prevent one service from abusing this?

markpfennig [7:07 PM]
honesty: yes and no, it's a reputation system and we are also integrating identifi to give trust metrics. So the flow of marks in and out of a service/implementation can serve as a measure as to it's performance, and the trust statements about it can provide information as to whether it's to be trusted or not.
our goal is not to ensure that people are good or bad, but to provide enough data (a graph of reputation+trust) so that people can build tools on top to address these issues. Specialists in thos areas will do better than any attempt we make.

busoni [7:08 PM]
So Bitmark itself won't comment on reputation

busoni [7:08 PM]
Just provide the data for implementations to deduce reputation

markpfennig [7:08 PM]
definitely not, each person will as needed, we're decentralized

amarha [7:09 PM]
the tools should be there for people to analyze the data and build systems on top of it to help determine trust

busoni [7:09 PM]
And all marking data will make it to the blockchain eventually?

markpfennig [7:09 PM]
no

markpfennig [7:10 PM]
never, it's on top

amarha [7:10 PM]
at a raw level, with out identifi or any other data analysis tools, you can look at it like spendable karma(like reddit)

amarha [7:10 PM]
but the potential for it to evolve in to much more is there

markpfennig [7:10 PM]
regarding two different implementations providing the ability to mark the same things:
this is our goal, it's free speech and how the web works. Each of the services may provide different information or purposes of marking, for example on the web you may look up about "France" in different contexts, a general one at wikipedia, a more specific one on a govt site, and a more social one on trip advisor
Marking takes the same approach, so one service may provide markings related to say an event which happened at the location, and another to some geographic feature, and another to some photo taken at the place at some time, and so forth (edited)

amarha [7:12 PM]
we're also going to be creating our own marking implementation at getmarked.org which should provide tools and data, and also aggregate content online and reward those who create it and share it

markpfennig [7:12 PM]
each implementation can be seen as specializing for some purpose. Also "markings" the data structure, is extensible, so further properties for some purpose can be added, which allows people to say what they like about anything, some apps will show some types of data, and others other kinds, but the core set of properties remains common, the stuff that makes it function (interoperability) (edited)

amarha [7:14 PM]
one of the major goals is to get regular people using cryptocurrency, without even realizing they are. then when they decide they want to redeem some of the marks they've earned, they can begin to learn about the blockchain behind the scenes.

busoni [7:14 PM]
Just as confused as ever about the involvement of the blockchain...

amarha [7:14 PM]
i meant them sending it to hold them theirself

busoni [7:14 PM]
It seems sometimes you're saying that the data will be included in the blockchain, other times you're saying it has no connection with it

amarha [7:14 PM]
when they're using marking locally on a webite, it's not

markpfennig [7:14 PM]
okay, I'll clarify simply

amarha [7:15 PM]
but the blockchain is what gives marks their value is what i meant there by the blockchain behind the scenes

markpfennig [7:16 PM]
the data is outwith the blockchain, each implementation handles it's own set of markings
each marking is a balance transfer from one user to another within that implementation
the implementation manages balances
(all the same as poloniex does with trades)
the blockchain is for sending marks out to storage or back, and between services/implementations
as a secondary usages, sets of markings are hashed up in to a tree and the hash of that structure is timestamped in the block chain, by sending a tx to the hash.

markpfennig [7:17 PM]
the block chain isn't needed for marking, if it was it wouldn't scale

markpfennig [7:17 PM]
but it is needed to keep the thing decentralized and allow marks to flow around between users and services and storage and back

markpfennig [7:18 PM]
i.e. I can +10 you here and you can `withdraw <btm-address> 10` and get it in your wallet or account at poloniex

markpfennig [7:18 PM]
think of it...

markpfennig [7:19 PM]
as being able to withdraw your likes at facebook, your karma on reddit, your favs on facebook,. and give some of them to your mum, some to a mate via email, and use some to buy a coffee..

busoni [7:19 PM]
Okay

busoni [7:19 PM]
That's the version where it has nothing to do with the blockchain

busoni [7:19 PM]
Now what's this business about sidechain technology?

markpfennig [7:20 PM]
hmmm...

amarha [7:20 PM]
that was just a reasoning to use our own chain

amarha [7:20 PM]
potentially wanting to do something like that

busoni [7:20 PM]
So the sidechain thing isn't set in stone yet

amarha [7:20 PM]
in the future, to have control

markpfennig [7:20 PM]
@busoni:  is it fair to say you're looking for some novel technology at blockchain level to warrant the existence of BTM?

busoni [7:20 PM]
No

busoni [7:20 PM]
I'm just trying to understand it fully

markpfennig [7:20 PM]
great :smile:

busoni [7:21 PM]
Part of that is knowing about any blockchain-level changes

amarha [7:21 PM]
it all depends on how the development goes on sidechains, if they are useful for marking, then i think mark will want to implement them

amarha [7:21 PM]
they are just one of the potential techs that potentially matter

markpfennig [7:22 PM]
okay for the sidechain thing, it's an alternative approach.
Blockchain is a distributed time-stamping server
we need to timestamp markings, and give a link back to that set of markings
so we figured that we can hash up markings in to a structure, calculate a hash, and send a mark to it on the chain, with a message that points back to that set of transactions on the web (or wherever)

markpfennig [7:22 PM]
i.e. use the blockchain, the timestamping tech, as a timestamping tech

busoni [7:22 PM]
What exactly are we timestamping

markpfennig [7:23 PM]
sets of markings

busoni [7:23 PM]
A transaction, like a withdrawal of marks?

markpfennig [7:23 PM]
let's convert this to trades at poloniex to describe it

markpfennig [7:24 PM]
if every hour you took all trades, and published them as a list in sequence, with say the hash from trade-1 as a property of trade-2, and the hash of trade-2 in trade-3
then you'd have a list in a provable set order, that trades happened in this order
then if you took the set of trades for that hour, and hashed them all up to get the sha256 sum, any modification to the data would produce a different hash sum, so you'd know it had been tampered with

markpfennig [7:25 PM]
now you submit that hash to the blockchain, as the address for a transaction, and send a mark to it

busoni [7:25 PM]
I'll be back soon... apparently there's a small Polo crisis.

markpfennig [7:25 PM]
np

amarha [7:25 PM]
thanks for coming by :grinning:

markpfennig [7:25 PM]
now looking back from the other direction, you can see the tx, follow through to the data, and verify that it hasn't been tampered with, that no trades are changed or out of order

markpfennig [7:27 PM]
if you can grok how that would provide the accountability to your exchange that users may want, then you can see how the same approach for markings (or any data) can be used to provide accountability and tamper proof data (or at least data where you can prove it has been tampered with), trust+accountability

markpfennig [7:28 PM]
@busoni: the above finishes it, unless you have more questions - GL with polo issue

melvincarvalho [7:39 PM]
nice discussion, good questions from @busoni

markpfennig [7:40 PM]
agree completely :grinning: this is why poloniex was out first choice, he's interested in the tech and projects not the money

markpfennig [7:40 PM]
(or more than the money)

melvincarvalho [7:43 PM]
markpfennig: any particular reason you'd want to hash the merkle root in the (i assume btm) block chain, in satoshi's paper he talked about publishing widely, e.g. on usenet, but why would we not use github for example?

busoni [7:45 PM]
Okay, that finally makes sense

markpfennig [7:45 PM]
@melvincarvalho: just to check we're aligned in thought. It would be submitting say the hash of a release on github to the blockchain for timestamping, so commit <x> can always be timestamped as happening at the time it was, and hasn't been tampered with

busoni [7:46 PM]
It sounds like you're still working a lot of specifics out

markpfennig [7:47 PM]
@busoni: yes very much so, it's work in progress and even once released we'll be working out bits

melvincarvalho [7:47 PM]
im new (ish) to the project so just learning still ... :grinning: (edited)

markpfennig [7:47 PM]
the system has so many applications it's hard to account for them all

markpfennig [7:48 PM]
conversations and q&a sessions like these help a great deal (edited)

busoni [7:48 PM]
It's a little hard to wrap one's head around when we're so used to blockchain-level changes with alts

busoni [7:48 PM]
This is bigger than that

melvincarvalho [7:48 PM]
i understand the role of the block chain as a glue between federated instances, this is great.  I understand the role as a coinbase to create monetary units, also great.  I'm still slightly unclear on what further use it has in relation to off chain tx/uxto/ledgers ... (edited)

markpfennig [7:49 PM]
@busoni: yes :grinning: and it's quite nice, for the first time in years many of the crypto people here can talk about things with their friends and family, you can discuss marking wit your wife/mates/kids and they get it. It's the crypto people that have to unlearn

markpfennig [7:50 PM]
@melvincarvalho: it doesn't it's an optional part. Hash up some data, get the sum, send a mark to the address corresponding to that hash and it's timestamped, can be used for anything not just marking

ace [7:50 PM]
Much bigger.

melvincarvalho [7:50 PM]
got it

melvincarvalho [7:51 PM]
this can already be done

melvincarvalho [7:51 PM]
and is done in the btc block chain

markpfennig [7:51 PM]
yes

busoni [7:51 PM]
It's not actually that complicated, it's just thinking in a fundamentally different way that makes it so hard to grasp at first -- as you said, for crypto people.

markpfennig [7:52 PM]
agreed

melvincarvalho [7:52 PM]
true

ace [7:52 PM]
It's also because crypto has taught ppl to doubt first

ace [7:52 PM]
believe later

busoni [7:52 PM]
We need to think about this more, but I think implementing marking on Poloniex is likely something we want to do.

busoni [7:52 PM]
Exactly how is what we need to think about

melvincarvalho [7:53 PM]
crypto has taught people the zero trust paradigm, but zero trust can exist in parallel with micro trust, this is what happens on exchanges of course

busoni [7:53 PM]
In the trollbox is an obvious start, but mobydick was talking about marking markets

markpfennig [7:53 PM]
we can help there, you may even be able to use the getmarked api for it.. but it may make more sense to just do balance transfers between users, you already have 50%+ of the functionality

markpfennig [7:53 PM]
marking markets sounds cool

markpfennig [7:54 PM]
other things, like groups of traders all marking a proposed trade, if enough of them agree trade is executed - like group managed funds

markpfennig [7:54 PM]
the marks themselves could be the funds!

busoni [7:55 PM]
Uy... this is where it gets complicated. There are just SO many applications for marking.

markpfennig [7:55 PM]
lol yes, infinite, in real life too

ace [7:55 PM]
would the amount of marks someone has be displayed?

busoni [7:55 PM]
That would be an idea for the trollbox

busoni [7:55 PM]
A reputation system for users

markpfennig [7:55 PM]
ace, depends, it can be layered on, or default amounts like 1m always

ace [7:55 PM]
I feel as if it's Bitcoin is to fiat as Marking is to indexing

ace [7:55 PM]
Its solution

ace [7:56 PM]
Marking has the potential to index all the data in the world

ace [7:56 PM]
in some form

markpfennig [7:57 PM]
still grasping it myself, and I have conversations like this daily..

markpfennig [7:57 PM]
two from yesterday...

markpfennig [7:57 PM]
1. free education where the students mark the teacher

markpfennig [7:58 PM]
2. marking data from different bio/med datasets, providing bounties for finding new medical breakthroughs by incentivising the merging of data from different research units

markpfennig [7:58 PM]
in every convo, it seems to flip the way humans do things on it's head

wonderloops [7:59 PM]
its the beauty of it, people will use it as they see fit and build their own applications

markpfennig [7:59 PM]
yup, we don't need to, others will have far better ideas than us

markpfennig [7:59 PM]
will be fun to watch :grinning:

markpfennig [8:00 PM]
already is..

wonderloops [8:00 PM]
shouldnt be our goal to try and develop a 100 idea's to proof its possibl

markpfennig [8:00 PM]
the whole of project bitmark is about rolling out the ideas in some way and moving to the next, or integrating with whatever software we can find, to enable others to do their ideas

markpfennig [8:01 PM]
we don't really have much work to do other than that once marking is stable, bitmark/btm already is

markpfennig [8:01 PM]
just adoption :grinning:

markpfennig [8:01 PM]
'tis what we mean by "focused on adoption"

ace [8:02 PM]
+ 10

ace [8:02 PM]
oh forgot

markpfennig [8:02 PM]
okay, hungry children I must head off, I'll catch up before I start coding - it's about time we made these discussions reality

ace [8:02 PM]
only in general

ace [8:02 PM]
Take care mark!

markpfennig [8:03 PM]
the same to you all, and thank you so much for all your support and time. For a while back in July I thought we might never reach this point, it was getting tough.

ace [8:03 PM]
Hard works pays off Mark

busoni [8:03 PM]
Thanks for taking the time to explain things

markpfennig [8:03 PM]
Who composes the dev team?

Project Bitmark is a community effort, currently there are roughly 50 people in various roles and having different levels of commitment; this number grows daily. Additionally we have outreach to various projects within and more importantly outwith the crypto space, and businesses which are being created around what we're doing. Full time we have Victor (Medic) our project manager, Aureus (EsteNuno) our community manager, and two full time developers at present Melvin Carvalho and myself, Mark. It is a shame to only mention a few names when so many have committed and contributed.

ace [8:04 PM]
your results are well deserved

markpfennig [8:04 PM]
our*

ace [8:04 PM]
Haha fair enough

markpfennig [8:04 PM]
:wink: back in a bit

ace [8:04 PM]
Enjoy!

melvincarvalho [8:05 PM]
i think satoshi actually describes this in his paper page 1

melvincarvalho [8:05 PM]
"Commerce on the Internet has come to rely almost exclusively on financial institutions serving as trusted third parties to process electronic payments. While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.:

melvincarvalho [8:06 PM]
Line 1 in fact

melvincarvalho [8:06 PM]
here's the key "the system works well enough for most transactions"

melvincarvalho [8:07 PM]
The block chain "allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party"

melvincarvalho [8:07 PM]
again the key "willing parties"

markpfennig [8:07 PM]
yes! the systems are not mutually exclusive - we have to work with what already exists, and what will exist in the future, not try to replace it all

melvincarvalho [8:07 PM]
user gets to choose

melvincarvalho [8:07 PM]
not the developer

markpfennig [8:07 PM]
+10

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