[350 GH/s] "Eligius" (experimental) pool: almost feeless PPS, hoppers welcome

[GimEEE]

I had trouble finding the facts in that post, but it did lead me to an interesting find. Yeah, the poster, but also this:
There is one of the top miners who stuck it out after being forced to loan the pool 6.83411865BTC
This miner consistently gave over 3% during the maxpps scam while receiving as little as 0.22075991 BTC in one round (where the expected reward would be 1.5+BTC per round) that adds up to quite some value of btc.
http://eligius.st/~artefact2/us/1Fc6YXroabfKBjvXYzMxjWfE7kmdKzss1c
I was wrong, there is a top miner who stuck it out, does that mean the pool didn't cheat me and other miners by withholding payments and lowering the rewards?
This one also stuck it out even a week after the pool is apparently withholding his money and shorting his rounds:
http://eligius.st/~artefact2/us/1621CyDporXDEbeVim1KkT8dYqCPhRmSYB
Maybe they are some of the individual payouts that were written about above

[Artefact2]

New page on the stats : list of contributors (sorted by hashrate). Go check it out !

[Yeti]

Hey, cool stats! Thanks artefact2, I really appreciate your work and the 1337 stats are one of the main reasons for me to be on Eligius!

However, I noticed something odd. Apart from "only" 828 miners in the last 3 hours, #488 has 64.236111 % at 73.57 Mh/s, which can't be right, since his peers have 0.020962 % and 0.021306 %, respectively. Wrong handling of scientific number format, I wonder?

[Artefact2]

Hey, cool stats! Thanks artefact2, I really appreciate your work and the 1337 stats are one of the main reasons for me to be on Eligius!

However, I noticed something odd. Apart from "only" 828 miners in the last 3 hours, #488 has 64.236111 % at 73.57 Mh/s, which can't be right, since his peers have 0.020962 % and 0.021306 %, respectively. Wrong handling of scientific number format, I wonder?

Only 828 miners ? That number seems right to me.

Also, the 64% is because this crazy miner is on the US pool. Keep that in mind !

[ribuck]

#481 is showing as 100%.

Interesting to see that there are over a hundred CPU miners on the list.

[Yeti]

Yeah, "only" was only due to my expectations being that there should be more miners in the pool. But then again, at 350 Gh/s that makes about 410 Mh/s for everybody, which is exactly what I do. So I'm totally mediocre! Woohoo!

Sorry, I understood the stats wrongly. I thought the "Relative contribution in the pool (%)" was what it was sorted by, but it's sorted by hashrate and since US has been offline for so long, his hashrate is fairly "low" on that pool although he is the biggest contributor overall. Makes sense now.

[Luke-Jr]

Please nominate and vote in the upcoming poll for the new Eligius payout method.

Nominations: https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20689.0

Upgrade should occur before the next difficulty (2 days away!), so we need to act quickly here...

[jkminkov]

if you didn't hold in your pockets those "scammed" btc taken from those vicious pool-hoppers, but instead distributed them between "fair" users rectroactively after some period of time, say 10 days, probably more people would accept that MaxPPS thing...

[Carnth]

if you didn't hold in your pockets those "scammed" btc taken from those vicious pool-hoppers, but instead distributed them between "fair" users rectroactively after some period of time, say 10 days, probably more people would accept that MaxPPS thing...

I have to agree with this. This is something I never quite wrapped my head around. I like the MaxPPS model except for that one thing.

Example:
I pool hopper starts mining. Then leaves.
A block is found. He joins back... another block is found. This will fill his "value."

If the pool hopper leaves the pool at this point or changes Bitcoin addresses, he will never be able to collect this "value."

So where does this value go? Who eventually gets this built up value if it is never collected?

I agree with jkminkov that after a period of time (10 - 20 days) the unclaimed value should be redistributed to the rest of other miners that are active.

[Luke-Jr]

if you didn't hold in your pockets those "scammed" btc taken from those vicious pool-hoppers, but instead distributed them between "fair" users rectroactively after some period of time, say 10 days, probably more people would accept that MaxPPS thing...

I have to agree with this. This is something I never quite wrapped my head around. I like the MaxPPS model except for that one thing.

Example:
I pool hopper starts mining. Then leaves.
A block is found. He joins back... another block is found. This will fill his "value."

If the pool hopper leaves the pool at this point or changes Bitcoin addresses, he will never be able to collect this "value."

So where does this value go? Who eventually gets this built up value if it is never collected?

I agree with jkminkov that after a period of time (10 - 20 days) the unclaimed value should be redistributed to the rest of other miners that are active.

This should be a non-issue: since pool hopping is ineffective, nobody will do it.

[shamathana]

if you didn't hold in your pockets those "scammed" btc taken from those vicious pool-hoppers, but instead distributed them between "fair" users rectroactively after some period of time, say 10 days, probably more people would accept that MaxPPS thing...

I have to agree with this. This is something I never quite wrapped my head around. I like the MaxPPS model except for that one thing.

that wasn't a trollpost?!

Example:
I pool hopper starts mining. Then leaves.
A block is found. He joins back... another block is found. This will fill his "value."

If the pool hopper leaves the pool at this point or changes Bitcoin addresses, he will never be able to collect this "value."

So where does this value go? Who eventually gets this built up value if it is never collected?

I agree with jkminkov that after a period of time (10 - 20 days) the unclaimed value should be redistributed to the rest of other miners that are active.

this applies to all, not pool hoppers alone. the correct term should be addresshopper not pool hopper. the problem is that maxpps creates staying dept.
with prop u work for eligius, this creates dept too, but that is paid every 1btc and fully after one week of inactivity.

with maxpps the dept stays because it's not fully paid out because of the limiting value, and accumulates with every new address. so there needs to be a way that this dept is paid.
u can then implement rules like 1month of inactivity of the address voids the dept(poolowner gets it), but that counteracts the no registration needed, because every time u change ur address u lose a portion of the money still owed to u.

so it will be liek the other pools, if u wanna change ur address, u have to time it quite well that not much btc are left behind.

[Luke-Jr]

this applies to all, not pool hoppers alone. the correct term should be addresshopper not pool hopper. the problem is that maxpps creates staying dept.
with prop u work for eligius, this creates dept too, but that is paid every 1btc and fully after one week of inactivity.

with maxpps the dept stays because it's not fully paid out because of the limiting value, and accumulates with every new address. so there needs to be a way that this dept is paid.
u can then implement rules like 1month of inactivity of the address voids the dept(poolowner gets it), but that counteracts the no registration needed, because every time u change ur address u lose a portion of the money still owed to u.

This is not correct. MaxPPS pays out the full debt the same way. The only difference is that you never get paid more than you've done the work to get (like you do in proportional), while the pool keeps track of the operator's finances to make sure it doesn't pay you more than the operator has earned from running the pool for you. If the pool has to underpay you due to the finances, it also keeps track of how much it underpaid you so when/if the operator's finances improve, it can pay you extra. It is true that changing address resets this memory, and that is a real flaw to be considered.

[SoreGums]

New page on the stats : list of contributors (sorted by hashrate). Go check it out !

Nice one mate

surprised I'm as high as I am, neat.

[bitcoin0918]

Eligius-EU appears to be down. My miner is unable to connect, and the stats page shows no hashrate for the whole pool.

[gentakin]

The artefact2 stats appear to be bugged (or maybe it's the eligius api): The block found "15 hours ago", round duration 2h 1m 26s, 000000000000001f0dcaf8ff5607dcecc6c7aabc2cf3c723cb116b5bdd05906e, is shown as "valid" in the "Recent blocks and rewards" table, although it is not found at blockexplorer.com and the reward was definitely not added to my balance.

BTW, why is it that so many blocks are invalid? I'm counting about 8 last week (the "about x days ago" makes it hard to get right), that's like.. 10%? Just bad luck? Or is eligius-eu connected to the bitcoin network in a not-so-good way? (I also think that long polling responses arrive at my miner much later from eligius compared to other pools when I mine one 2 pools simultaneously.)

[phelix]

> You haven't mined for a week. No stats for you !

if I start again with an old address will it be reactivated? I have been mining for an hour or so now and still nothing is showing up...

[Yeti]

Yup, no estimated payout for me but the hashrate seems to be about right. What's up with Eligius EU?

[bitcoin0918]

Eligius EU appears to have been down for a few hours. My hashrate is now fine, no stale shares, and a valid block estimate.

[bitcoin0918]

The artefact2 stats appear to be bugged (or maybe it's the eligius api): The block found "15 hours ago", round duration 2h 1m 26s, 000000000000001f0dcaf8ff5607dcecc6c7aabc2cf3c723cb116b5bdd05906e, is shown as "valid" in the "Recent blocks and rewards" table, although it is not found at blockexplorer.com and the reward was definitely not added to my balance.

Gentakin is right, this block is listed as valid in the EU log, but it is not valid. Is the hash incorrect? Did Eligius reward us for an invalid block?

[gentakin]

Did Eligius reward us for an invalid block?

I started re-using my eligius address only recently, so by adding up all the rewards listed on my stats page I can see: No, that block reward was not added to my account balance. So it's simply a display error.