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Author Topic: BTCD is no more  (Read 1320966 times)
jl777
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September 03, 2014, 01:05:30 AM
 #5421

Maybe someone can answer what step we are at now regarding BTCD? Are we still waiting for someone to review JL's code or waiting for something else? I checked the ANN thread and through all of the conversation on here and questions, it's hard to figure out where we are right now and what the next steps are.

Thanks!
I am busy with some new project until Thursday, after that I will be able to 100% be on Teleport debug and I am getting initial releases so I should be able to start tomorrow.

please understand there is a lot of work behind the scenes to put together a 10,000+ BTC offering
I think this is worth whatever delay to Teleport it causes, but since I am still waiting on release, the time lost will be less than a couple days

still no volunteers or even anybody that is willing to be hired to look at my some few lines of C code.

James

Dan Metcalf?
does he have any time for this?
is he willing?
does anybody know him personally?

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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clovis A.
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September 03, 2014, 01:38:32 AM
 #5422

BitcoinDark featured on Kristov Atlas darknews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upcVcW2d790
mostly right, seems a bit confused that node specific script written for that node is not adding any security issues that are not already there.

now when we have linked-tradebots that are downloaded to multiple machines, this does become some factor. but that is for later anyway

also the anon-card of $500/day is a bit above what he says is possible

I have been working at my pace of 7+ years

I like kitchen sinks Smiley

James

P.S. oh yes, wait for the pullback, BTCD is already pretty high. How many peoples are listening to him? seems he is not heard of SuperNET yet, but since it is recorded cant fault him for that. The majority of the show was about BTCD, is that normal?

Absolutely not, pretty sure Kristov has made mention of btcd only twice before this.  Both were very short mentions, but he does do some homework before commenting, so i assume he just recently heard of BTCD and needed to catch up.

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koralon
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September 03, 2014, 01:46:33 AM
 #5423

Maybe someone can answer what step we are at now regarding BTCD? Are we still waiting for someone to review JL's code or waiting for something else? I checked the ANN thread and through all of the conversation on here and questions, it's hard to figure out where we are right now and what the next steps are.

Thanks!
I am busy with some new project until Thursday, after that I will be able to 100% be on Teleport debug and I am getting initial releases so I should be able to start tomorrow.

please understand there is a lot of work behind the scenes to put together a 10,000+ BTC offering
I think this is worth whatever delay to Teleport it causes, but since I am still waiting on release, the time lost will be less than a couple days

still no volunteers or even anybody that is willing to be hired to look at my some few lines of C code.

James

Dan Metcalf?
does he have any time for this?
is he willing?
does anybody know him personally?

Well he did audit Keycoin code and he is pro-crypto in general so I don't see why he wouldn't do a favour for BTCD.

That is assuming he does have time outside developing his own coin.
threecats
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September 03, 2014, 03:04:10 AM
 #5424

Actually Kristov tends to spend time on coins he is intrigued with. If you are looking for an auditor he might be available, he said he is wrapping up his DRK audit this week.

Tuck Fheman
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September 03, 2014, 03:04:38 AM
 #5425

C is probably the worst language in the world in terms of making it easy for vulnerabilities to be encoded into the programs that you write.”  - Kristov Atlas

Source : http://youtu.be/upcVcW2d790?t=16m43s

Has this been addressed? If so, where?

Edit : I see above it has been posted already.

jl777
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September 03, 2014, 03:18:43 AM
 #5426

C is probably the worst language in the world in terms of making it easy for vulnerabilities to be encoded into the programs that you write.”  - Kristov Atlas

Source : http://youtu.be/upcVcW2d790?t=16m43s

Has this been addressed? If so, where?

Edit : I see above it has been posted already.

remember all Turing complete languages map to each other. What this means is that there is nothing inherent in the language about vulnerabilities, it is dependent on the specific coder.

stuff like all the gnu code, unix, apache, a lot of code is written in C, so it is natural for a lot of bugs to be in C code.
Changing the language doesnt usually change the vulnerability. Maybe there are many C coders who shouldnt be?

Now, the C code for Tradebots is interpreted code running on the node that your are writing the Tradebot for. So if you want to blow up your computer, you dont need an C to help you, you can just use a hammer.

At some point there will be Tradebot vendors sharing profits with people that are using their Tradebots. The open source requirement and user feedbacks should allow for a good way to know if a Tradebot is stable. So, until a Tradebot is certified by some third party Tradebot certification agency, then maybe it is user needs to use their judgement

James

P.S. I think it is safe to say that assembler is the worst language in the world to use for the vulnerabilities

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
cloudboy
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September 03, 2014, 03:33:02 AM
 #5427

C is probably the worst language in the world in terms of making it easy for vulnerabilities to be encoded into the programs that you write.”  - Kristov Atlas

Source : http://youtu.be/upcVcW2d790?t=16m43s

Has this been addressed? If so, where?

Edit : I see above it has been posted already.

remember all Turing complete languages map to each other. What this means is that there is nothing inherent in the language about vulnerabilities, it is dependent on the specific coder.

stuff like all the gnu code, unix, apache, a lot of code is written in C, so it is natural for a lot of bugs to be in C code.
Changing the language doesnt usually change the vulnerability. Maybe there are many C coders who shouldnt be?

Now, the C code for Tradebots is interpreted code running on the node that your are writing the Tradebot for. So if you want to blow up your computer, you dont need an C to help you, you can just use a hammer.

At some point there will be Tradebot vendors sharing profits with people that are using their Tradebots. The open source requirement and user feedbacks should allow for a good way to know if a Tradebot is stable. So, until a Tradebot is certified by some third party Tradebot certification agency, then maybe it is user needs to use their judgement

James

P.S. I think it is safe to say that assembler is the worst language in the world to use for the vulnerabilities

I agree, what is it about C that makes people think everything is automatically going to break?

I think people are just scared of C for some reason. You can easily break stuff in any language.
jl777
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September 03, 2014, 03:50:01 AM
 #5428

C is probably the worst language in the world in terms of making it easy for vulnerabilities to be encoded into the programs that you write.”  - Kristov Atlas

Source : http://youtu.be/upcVcW2d790?t=16m43s

Has this been addressed? If so, where?

Edit : I see above it has been posted already.

remember all Turing complete languages map to each other. What this means is that there is nothing inherent in the language about vulnerabilities, it is dependent on the specific coder.

stuff like all the gnu code, unix, apache, a lot of code is written in C, so it is natural for a lot of bugs to be in C code.
Changing the language doesnt usually change the vulnerability. Maybe there are many C coders who shouldnt be?

Now, the C code for Tradebots is interpreted code running on the node that your are writing the Tradebot for. So if you want to blow up your computer, you dont need an C to help you, you can just use a hammer.

At some point there will be Tradebot vendors sharing profits with people that are using their Tradebots. The open source requirement and user feedbacks should allow for a good way to know if a Tradebot is stable. So, until a Tradebot is certified by some third party Tradebot certification agency, then maybe it is user needs to use their judgement

James

P.S. I think it is safe to say that assembler is the worst language in the world to use for the vulnerabilities

I agree, what is it about C that makes people think everything is automatically going to break?

I think people are just scared of C for some reason. You can easily break stuff in any language.
I guess most people cant look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms. Seems this is a lost art. Once you can feel the data flowing through the algorithm, then you just fix it until it stops feeling wrong.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
Tuck Fheman
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September 03, 2014, 04:00:00 AM
 #5429

I guess most people cant look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms. Seems this is a lost art.

If "most people can't look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms" and "it's a lost art" and this is known beforehand, then why choose C?

Perhaps this is what was behind Kristov's logic?

cloudboy
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September 03, 2014, 04:10:00 AM
 #5430

I guess most people cant look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms. Seems this is a lost art.

If "most people can't look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms" and "it's a lost art" and this is known beforehand, then why choose C?

Perhaps this is what was behind Kristov's logic?

The 'logic' being that btcd must cater to subpar programmers who only know scripting languages?

Not that there is anything wrong with scripting languages, any Turing-complete language will do. But a programmer who knows the fundamentals should be able to pick up virtually any language pretty quickly, especially THE classical language, C.
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September 03, 2014, 04:14:32 AM
 #5431

Initial SuperNET support is done on BTCD qt wallet & BTCD-reskin (NxtInside)

Below are my repository for the 2 items :

https://bitbucket.org/longzai1988/bitcoindark-qt (latest commit checksum at writing time : e63aade)
https://bitbucket.org/longzai1988/btcd-reskin (latest commit checksum at writing time : dc9b238)


Some screenshot provided :


sweet & happy cryptocurrency , cheers Smiley
NXT : NXT-HSBE-8PWL-CUCD-BHUD6
BTCD : RTaMoRXsA7uCv869dX1TfCZmHw4ExbMVmQ
cloudboy
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September 03, 2014, 04:31:43 AM
 #5432

Initial SuperNET support is done on BTCD qt wallet & BTCD-reskin (NxtInside)

Below are my repository for the 2 items :

https://bitbucket.org/longzai1988/bitcoindark-qt (latest commit checksum at writing time : e63aade)
https://bitbucket.org/longzai1988/btcd-reskin (latest commit checksum at writing time : dc9b238)


Some screenshot provided :



Looks really excellent!
jl777
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September 03, 2014, 04:51:53 AM
 #5433

I guess most people cant look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms. Seems this is a lost art.

If "most people can't look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms" and "it's a lost art" and this is known beforehand, then why choose C?

Perhaps this is what was behind Kristov's logic?
I am a simple C programmer
I am superfluent in C
This allows me to be order of magnitude more productive
I still have this art

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
jl777
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September 03, 2014, 04:52:47 AM
 #5434

Initial SuperNET support is done on BTCD qt wallet & BTCD-reskin (NxtInside)

Below are my repository for the 2 items :

https://bitbucket.org/longzai1988/bitcoindark-qt (latest commit checksum at writing time : e63aade)
https://bitbucket.org/longzai1988/btcd-reskin (latest commit checksum at writing time : dc9b238)


Some screenshot provided :



Looks really excellent!
we need graphics guys to reskin this ASAP!

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
Tuck Fheman
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September 03, 2014, 04:56:13 AM
 #5435

The 'logic' being that btcd must cater to subpar programmers who only know scripting languages?

Not that there is anything wrong with scripting languages, any Turing-complete language will do. But a programmer who knows the fundamentals should be able to pick up virtually any language pretty quickly, especially THE classical language, C.

I defer to your supreme knowledge on the matter.

However, it is the dev's opinion (as stated above) that "most people" do not know the fundamentals and it's a "lost art". Therefore (to me) the logical question is ... why choose the language "most people" are incompetent with (allegedly) thereby yielding the most vulnerabilities which would require extensive work by third-parties to oversee and vet the code?

Would this not delay progress? Is it not inviting a lot of possible security issues (due to their lack of understanding, laziness or malicious intent) needlessly? 

I fully understand your reasoning that you and the dev can do it without error (allegedly) so why cater to the majority that can't ... but, is that not instead creating an undue burden on the majority of people that want to contribute and especially troublesome for all of the end users?

Sorry for all of the questions, I'm a complete idiot.










Tuck Fheman
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September 03, 2014, 05:00:12 AM
 #5436

I guess most people cant look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms. Seems this is a lost art.

If "most people can't look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms" and "it's a lost art" and this is known beforehand, then why choose C?

Perhaps this is what was behind Kristov's logic?
I am a simple C programmer
I am superfluent in C
This allows me to be order of magnitude more productive
I still have this art

That's great and all, but we're not talking about your skillz (at least I'm not).

We're (or I am) talking about "most people" and their use (or abuse) of the Turing complete scripting aspect of the coin.

What is it that I'm missing?

Are you going to write every single line of code that will ever be used in the Turing complete scripting?  I'm pretty sure the answer is no, hence why I'm asking.

jl777
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September 03, 2014, 05:34:28 AM
 #5437

I guess most people cant look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms. Seems this is a lost art.

If "most people can't look at C code and simulate the flow of data and progress of the algorithms" and "it's a lost art" and this is known beforehand, then why choose C?

Perhaps this is what was behind Kristov's logic?
I am a simple C programmer
I am superfluent in C
This allows me to be order of magnitude more productive
I still have this art

That's great and all, but we're not talking about your skillz (at least I'm not).

We're (or I am) talking about "most people" and their use (or abuse) of the Turing complete scripting aspect of the coin.

What is it that I'm missing?

Are you going to write every single line of code that will ever be used in the Turing complete scripting?  I'm pretty sure the answer is no, hence why I'm asking.
Well, have you seen the other languages? It is a brand new language that nobody has ever used before
Also compilers for a lot of languages are written in C, so if somebody really wants to use some other language they can make a compiler for their language.

It is like using the most common low level building block. It is lower level, but not as low level as assembler. It is the language from where most other languages are derived, so most people are at least familiar with it.

Now, I will be able to write a lot of tradebots very quickly, so even if there are only a few others who can do it, there will be plenty of tradebots available.

So, the design choice is something that allows other languages to be implemented on top. While if I selected, I am not even sure what else can be considered, then it is doubtful there are many other languages that can be implemented in it, and doubtful that there are anywhere as many that are familiar with it and no doubt that I would not be so good coding in it.

As far as I know Tradebots C is the script language with the most power and this is what I need.
Also, have you ever heard of Metatrader? Their language is based on C, and Tradebots, are initially for making automated tradebots, like the zillions that metatrader has. So it is not just my personal preference there is an entire industry of C scripted tradebots from the Metatrader universe.

James

P.S. I thought you hated me, why are you here? i almost put you on ignore, so these semi-reasonable questions are a bit confusing

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
BreakoutCoins
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September 03, 2014, 05:45:52 AM
 #5438

[Open Invitation to all other anon coins]

Since BTCD is matching XMR marketcap before even beta release of Teleport, I am assuming all the other anon coins devs are following this one, or at least having someone from their group doing so.

I want to make it clear that in spite of its name and cool sounding Teleport and fun pirates, BTCD is an enhancer for whatever anon tech your coin has. I am just a simple C programmer. I am not some fancy academic cryptographer making new maths that only 8 people in the world understand. I am common sense type of guy. Also, I already make millions of USD so money is not my motivation. I really only wanted enough money to not worry about food and to be able to pay for daily Starbuck's latte. So, I achieved this. My goal is to help all of crypto against fiat. This includes BTC certainly, but also all the anon coins.

As coin dev you are too busy to study Teleport in depth and all the pirates in DarkPaper make it hard to take it seriously. So, I have common sense analogy.

We all know bitcoin. It is great invention, it uses fancy cryptomath, PoW, blockchains. Totally wow, and in 2009!?!?
But what happens when you log into account and you find all your bitcoins gone from the exchange? How can this be? it is so fancy, but without some additional protection just access to one piece of info and all your coins are gone. 2FA, very simple. We are talking email or sms message with a code in it. No cryptography, no fancy math, but yet without such 2FA none of your exchange balances are safe

How does 2FA compete with bitcoin?
The same way Teleport competes with your coin.
It doesnt!

Teleport enhances your anon coin the way 2FA enhances the security of any account.

Now I posted a bit back about the airport terminal analogy. I hope it makes sense to you. If you are a true dev, you must want the best anon for your coin. By connecting to supernetwork, this becomes possible. In fact, some amazing things become possible that it not possible in any other way. The combining of multiple anon coin telepods via automated tradebot swapping. If we can add a little bit of trust by having the actual official coin devs work together to make trusted teleports between terminals possible, then the attacker wont even know what blockchain to look at!

I hope you see that the different airlines are making a lot of money! Of course the airplane maker is doing fine to, but the best friend of the airplane maker is the airlines.

I am hopeful for creation of many Teleport terminals with strong cross promotions so we all help each other. Nothing will be able to withstand the supernetwork combination of all cryptos, especially when we are all combining our power to make bitcoin itself dark!

Fiat peoples maybe need to worry, but then again that is the whole point of this Smiley

James

P.S. The timeframe for supernetwork is next month for testing, but we are being contacted by press so we will be making some press release and it is never too early to make commitment to join the supernetwork. I think maybe such thing could help your market price.
Hi, please consider adding C2 to the supernetwork. Active devs plus they are releasing a video game soon. Market cap is only 80 bitcoins currently, all they need is a developer who knows C++ and Java to fast track the game. Then the price will rise astronomically.
jl777
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September 03, 2014, 06:17:11 AM
 #5439

For those not too familiar with NXT and even those that are, the following is a must see page:

http://www.nxttechnologytree.com/

It shows the view from inside the SuperNET core
you know how somebody is taking the picture you are seeing?
since there are only two coins in the SuperNET core at this moment, I am thinking that BTCD is the one that took this pic!!

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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September 03, 2014, 07:12:00 AM
 #5440


Hi, please consider adding C2 to the supernetwork. Active devs plus they are releasing a video game soon. Market cap is only 80 bitcoins currently, all they need is a developer who knows C++ and Java to fast track the game. Then the price will rise astronomically.

How about... no?
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