GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[suchmoon]

I have reorganized the OP to put main focus on the Hashlet, since that is where this is going. I have quoted the initial post unaltered to avoid any confusion with the edits.

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[GAW_Stud]

It's pretty obvious that GAW/Zen is out of cash and desperate.

http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-zenminer-8-million/

I personally don't feel that a company "out of cash and desperate" would spend 8 million dollars. Just my .08 cents

[Flep182]

It's pretty obvious that GAW/Zen is out of cash and desperate.

http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-zenminer-8-million/

I personally don't feel that a company "out of cash and desperate" would spend 8 million dollars. Just my .08 cents

Linked post doesn't state that it's paid in cash. Could he shares, earn-out etc etc etc.

[bitgeek]

GAW still maintains they are on time and did not update the Vaultbreaker to 3 GH/s. It would be probably redundant to start another thread "Vaultbreaker - does it really exist?"

Why not? You're great at creating new threads about GAW. This must be love.

[kcal63]

Just activated my first set of Hashlets on Zencloud. Getting the specified hashing power, just wish there were more pools to choose from (and more coins, would love to mine just Doge).
They were bought, paid for and activated in less than 2 hours.

[MOB]

Just activated my first set of Hashlets on Zencloud. Getting the specified hashing power, just wish there were more pools to choose from (and more coins, would love to mine just Doge).
They were bought, paid for and activated in less than 2 hours.

What are the maintenance fees?  It seems like you are losing a few cents every hour just by running them...

[suchmoon]

Just activated my first set of Hashlets on Zencloud. Getting the specified hashing power, just wish there were more pools to choose from (and more coins, would love to mine just Doge).
They were bought, paid for and activated in less than 2 hours.

What are the maintenance fees?  It seems like you are losing a few cents every hour just by running them...

I think they are deducted daily. I'll check when I get my payment. Here is what I found about maintenance fees:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741874.msg8390902#msg8390902

Do they charge maintenance fees on hashlets? Maybe I should've checked before I bought

Good point, there was a $2.5 per MH/s per month fee mentioned somewhere on hashtalk but I can't find that anywhere on the product page or the cloud site. They do promise to reduce the maintenance cost, whatever that means.

Edit: $0.08 per MH/s per day. Login is required to see it on the cloud site. Still not sure if it's available anywhere publicly.

https://cloud.zenminer.com/maintenance-cost

[MOB]

Thanks!  So that means you are making $.09/day/MH, which is not quite as bad as it might sound.

That means at the end of a year you make $32.85/MH less hardware costs, which is actually more than one receives on BitFinex right now with the low swap rates. Surprisingly decent, even without these mysterious "self-reducing maintenance fees."

Makes me suspicious!

[suchmoon]

Thanks!  So that means you are making $.09/day/MH, which is not quite as bad as it might sound.

That means at the end of a year you make $32.85/MH less hardware costs, which is actually more than one receives on BitFinex right now with the low swap rates. Surprisingly decent, even without these mysterious "self-reducing maintenance fees."

Makes me suspicious!

How did you come up with these numbers? ZenPool pays ~0.0006 per Mh/s per day currently, which is $0.30 if BTC is at $500. That is 0.30-0.08 = $0.22 per day after maintenance fees. There is no way to tell how this is going to look like after a year, or even a month or tomorrow.

[MOB]

Thanks!  So that means you are making $.09/day/MH, which is not quite as bad as it might sound.

That means at the end of a year you make $32.85/MH less hardware costs, which is actually more than one receives on BitFinex right now with the low swap rates. Surprisingly decent, even without these mysterious "self-reducing maintenance fees."

Makes me suspicious!

How did you come up with these numbers? ZenPool pays ~0.0006 per Mh/s per day currently, which is $0.30 if BTC is at $500. That is 0.30-0.08 = $0.22 per day after maintenance fees. There is no way to tell how this is going to look like after a year, or even a month or tomorrow.

I have not mined in quite awhile, but I just googled one of the LTC calculators and inputted the 1000KH with zero fees and zero electricity.  It estimated making ~$.17/day/MH.

$.30/day/MH is considerably higher, so if that is the case then that lowers it to only 72 days to pay off the initial miner, which is startlingly quick.

Clearly no one knows the price of LTC or BTC in the future, but if you are not long LTC/BTC then mining is no place to be.




edit:  hmm that $.30/day/MH is impossibly high for LTC, so what is ZenPool mining?  Some floating combination of scrypts that are then traded into BTC by the pool?

[suchmoon]

Thanks!  So that means you are making $.09/day/MH, which is not quite as bad as it might sound.

That means at the end of a year you make $32.85/MH less hardware costs, which is actually more than one receives on BitFinex right now with the low swap rates. Surprisingly decent, even without these mysterious "self-reducing maintenance fees."

Makes me suspicious!

How did you come up with these numbers? ZenPool pays ~0.0006 per Mh/s per day currently, which is $0.30 if BTC is at $500. That is 0.30-0.08 = $0.22 per day after maintenance fees. There is no way to tell how this is going to look like after a year, or even a month or tomorrow.

I have not mined in quite awhile, but I just googled one of the LTC calculators and inputted the 1000KH with zero fees and zero electricity.  It estimated making ~$.17/day/MH.

$.30/day/MH is considerably higher, so if that is the case then that lowers it to only 72 days to pay off the initial miner, which is startlingly quick.

Clearly no one knows the price of LTC or BTC in the future, but if you are not long LTC/BTC then mining is no place to be.


edit:  hmm that $.30/day/MH is impossibly high for LTC, so what is ZenPool mining?  Some floating combination of scrypts that are then traded into BTC by the pool?

Well that's one of the reasons this thread exists to begin with. I doubt we will ever know what ZenPool is mining if it's mining at all. The whole thing is extremely shady IMO.

[Liquid71]

After a little sleep I still don't see how this whole thing could be possibly spun into something honest. I read some of the hashtalk blabber too and there are some desperate attempts to justify it but it's just making it more pathetic. Nevermind the immense effort to keep it under control - posts are being yanked literally while I'm reading them

One thing is clear though. There are loyalists to sustain this thing for a while, whether they are complicit, naive, or just cornered by the clusterfuck that is Scrypt mining lately.

There are some other possibly relevant details. GAW appears to be planning to start delivery of the Vaultbreaker (750 MH/s Scrypt and Scrypt-N miner) on or around August 28. Of course it will be hosted on the cloud and not actually shipped. The interesting part is that when the Vaultbreaker was announced it was widely believed that it's based on Ensilica technology, same as Flower Tech miners. Flower announced yesterday (coincidence?) that their Ensilica-based miners won't be delivered until February 2015 with 4 times more performance per chip. GAW still maintains they are on time and did not update the Vaultbreaker to 3 GH/s. It would be probably redundant to start another thread "Vaultbreaker - does it really exist?"

Glad I found this thread, I thought I was alone thinking this just sounds insane. Now I know why they started that hashtrader forum or whatever it's called. To keep common sense at bay. I don't understand what GAW is up to, but a miner that is never unprofitable is impossible..even if it's digital

[MOB]

A miner that doesn't "lose" money is not that crazy, imagine if they just turn it off and then pay you $.01/year as long as you want.  Never unprofitable!

That actually fits well with the odd "reduced fees over time" claim.  Once your fees are more than you actually make they could drop or reduce the fees so that you can still be in the black in any given time increment, but stuck in a Xeno's Paradox of ROI.

[suchmoon]

Some details emerging about the maintenance costs:

https://hashtalk.org/t/hashlet-support/6264/172

The hosting fee will decrease over time to avoid the situation where the fee will ever exceed the payout. Obviously, in that time frame there will always be upgrade paths and options for you. More to come on that.

I can see now how this could play out. They never said that upgrades and maintenance cost reductions would be free. Users can be sucked into paying for upgrades to chase the ROI.

[flound1129]

I own/operate Multipool.us.  If someone from GAW miners can give me your username(s) on the pool, I can verify your hashrate.  Or, you can set up a "handle" via the account page and it will appear rather than your User ID under the top hashrates for each coin (assuming you are within the top 15, which should be easily within your capabilities.)

For the record, I have not been contacted (to my knowledge) by anyone at GAW miners about setting up an account, IP whitelisting what would most likely be a massive number of workers, etc.

[crazyivan]

Hm....shouldn't LTC difficulty skyrocket after this has been introduced. Supposedly, lots of people bought this and started mining LTC immediately?

[reb0rn21]

@sirux
You have ANY proff, its a delicate question they for sure for scrypt and hosting are number one, I know many competitors are pissed off... whan I look what they write I see hashlet as "some" HW that mine "some" algo with best profitability as possible then they share the profit with ppl that are renting it, is it scrypt N, sha or what ever they sure atm had not disclosed

[manfred87]

Yes, interesting news here day by day..

i have some insider information which proof that two weeks ago, GAW and Zenminer were really two sepparate, competing companies ( i can not tell you more details.. ) . so everybody who thinks this is a long planned fraud system might be wrong.. so i might say the $8 Million story is true.. ( http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-zenminer-8-million/ ) zenminer had better prices than GAW ( store.zenminer.com was occasionally 20% cheaper than gawminers.com) , so they had to assimilate them

In my eyes, josh is a man wth great visions. with reselling zeusminer hardware in massive amount under the gaw logo, he made his millions. remember: material costs of a miner might only be 10% of the hardware price. and zeusminer itself always showed low interest in having low prices.. so most hardware might be sold under the logo of GAW and Hashra.. so now he has to see where the next money can be made.. so he has crazy ideas, like bringing Antminers to the US or now this new Hashlet..

The Haslet.. We yet not really know what it is.. very intransparent.. but aren't that all cloud mining companies? they all payout btc intstead of sending hashrate ( except cex.io ).. i think there might be a really interesting concept behind it.. which can not be revealed yet.. maybe he bought nicehash.com or another big pool.. and can indeed aquire a hashrate of 103800.76 Mhash ( https://www.zenminer.com/pool/ ) just from one day to another.. or has a hardware deal with one of the companies who claim "we will deliver 250Mhash Miners very soon".. we just will have to see..

is it too good to be true? at the moment we make with litecoins 0.00034 BTC / MH / d = 0,17 USD / MH / d.. the fee is 0,08 USD / day ( https://cloud.zenminer.com/maintenance-cost ).. so we have earliest ROI of our 16 USD in 200 days .. not very promising.. the real rate in my account is at the moment 0,07 USD at nicehash and 0,11 USD at Zenpool.. ( might change after 24 hours )

So what speaks against a ponzi scheme?

• The price for 1mh is fixed at 15,99 USD. So the price is 0,03198 BTC today and will tomorrow maybe be 0,02665 BTC . The Payout is in BTC. When they do not mine, they have to change USD against BTC every day.. credit card transactions might take 3 days, so there is a new exchange rate.. so they would not have any planning reliability. Having USD is no problem when you pay your Hardware suppliers in USD
• there is no incentive to buy big packages. 1mh is 15,99 and 10mh is 159,9 and 100mh is 1599.
• there are no earning promises like "make one bitcoin a day"
• it is just the continuation of the zenminer principle, without the need of shipping physical hardware
• zenminer is in my eyes trustworthy. i just received 0.5 BTC from my cloud miners.
• there is no affiliate system, like on every big scam. why should they scam 100 people on hastalk, when they could scam 10.000 people with a big marketing campaign. GAW Resellers get 0% discount on the 15,99 USD and only the usual 3% referral provision

Investing money is always a question of security vs opportunity.. Never invest money that you can’t afford to lose!

[GAW_Stud]

That doesn't explain the list of lies coming out of Eric or Josh

How do you know Josh and Eric are lying? You have no fact, just speculation. And the fact that they choose to ignore you does not make them liars

[suchmoon]

i have some insider information which proof that two weeks ago, GAW and Zenminer were really two sepparate, competing companies ( i can not tell you more details.. ) . so everybody who thinks this is a long planned fraud system might be wrong.. so i might say the $8 Million story is true.. ( http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-zenminer-8-million/ ) zenminer had better prices than GAW ( store.zenminer.com was occasionally 20% cheaper than gawminers.com) , so they had to assimilate them

You would do a great service for the community if you shared that proof otherwise you're just fueling the fire. ZenMiner only ever hosted products sold by GAW and it has never done anything outside of GAW, including the ZenController, so for all intents and purposed they never competed.

I get what you're trying to say about pricing and lack of pyramid structure etc. But it doesn't address ANY of the ridiculous claims made in the hashlet announcement. See the bolded parts in my first post. If you can address any of those, please do.