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Author Topic: GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)  (Read 261579 times)
suchmoon
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August 01, 2014, 07:31:41 PM
 #1


THIS THREAD IS LOCKED. PLEASE CONTINUE HERE:


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670

September 6, 2014

Let me start with a disclaimer: I'm not particularly fond of GAW and its business practices and that is well documented around here. Feel free to take what I have to say with your daily dose of sodium.

With that out of the way, let's take a look at GAW's main product: The Hashlet.

Hashlet as it's marketed

Hashlet is a "Digital Cloud Miner". It is sold as an amount of hashrate, available in 1 MH/s (Scrypt) or 10 GH/s (SHA256) slices. It does not have an expiration date. There is a daily maintenance cost of 0.08 USD (as of  September 6, 2014) per single slice, which GAW claims will go down in the future to ensure hashlet's continuing profitability.

Hashlet is "datacenter optimized" and can only be hosted in GAW's own ZenCloud service. It can not be redeemed for physical hardware or returned for a refund. A marketplace to trade with other hashlet owners may be available in the future.

Hashlets are sold in several flavors, including HashletGenesis (SHA256), HashletPrime (switchable between Scrypt and SHA256, with up to a 1:40000 hashrate ratio), and various pool-branded Scrypt versions of Hashlet Solo. HashletPrime and ZenHashlet Solo have access to ZenPool, "World's Most Profitable Pool", which earns 50%+ more than any other Scrypt pool.

Hashlet's initial price was $16 per single 1 MH/s slice, which later became HashletPrime and now costs $40 $50. Hashlet marketing has shifted significantly since its announcement. Initial claims of "incapable of negative ROIs" and "always make money" (giving title to this thread) have been changed to "obsolete proof", "depreciating costs" etc.

After hashlet's announcement on August 16, 2014 many questions arised as to how it works, how does it achieve its profitability, or does it even exist and in what form. Some questions have been answered, some have lost their relevance, and some others still remain unanswered.

Questions and some answers


1) Q: Does the hashlet exist? A: Yes and no.

The hashlet almost certainly does not exist as a hardware device depicted on GAW's website. It may exist as a slice of a larger hardware device. It does exist as an investment vehicle that produces daily payouts, however the source of these payouts is not fully known.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg8605520#msg8605520 (ZenMiner TOS)
Quote
You understand that Hashlets are virtual service units related to mining services, but are not mining hardware.
[...]
A Hashlet is virtual software.
 

2) Q: How does ZenPool achieve its Scrypt profitability? A: Unknown.

Suggested possibilities include supplemental sources of income such as mining Scrypt-N, daytrading, and private rentals, confirmed in e-mails between some forum members and GAW CEO.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg8601489#msg8601489
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg8587832#msg8587832

3) Q: Can we see the hashrate produced by hashlets or otherwise verify that GAW posesses mining capacity equivalent to the amount of hashlets sold? A: No.

GAW does not publish ZenPool's total hashrate anymore. Last known number was 250 GH/s (Scrypt) of August 25, 2014 and has most likely grown since then. That is 1/3 of LTC hashrate and about twice the hashrate of all other Scrypt coins combined.

If 250 GH/s of Scrypt hashrate is converted to SHA256 at the 1:40000 ratio it would result in 10 PH/s, about 5% of Bitcoin network. Neither Scrypt nor SHA256 mining has been confirmed by GAW, e.g. by publishing mined blocks.

4) Q: Do hashlets mine on any pools other than GAW's own ZenPool? A: No, at least not for Scrypt. Unknown for SHA256.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg8533761#msg8533761
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg8605520#msg8605520 (ZenMiner TOS)
Quote
Selecting a Pool does not imply physically or electronically mining at the selected Pool. Rather, selecting a Pool determines a Payout corresponding to a calculation based on the selected Pool’s payout (based on, for example, real-time Megahash/second/day calculations). A Hashlet is virtual software. You will receive Payouts according to the Pool with with the Hashlet is associated. You expressly understand the the Company’s sole obligation to You is to Provide a Payout based on the Pool you choose.

It is unclear why GAW chose to brand Hashlet Solo with pool names if it is not actually mining on those pools.

5) Q: Will the hashlets achieve 100%+ ROI? A: Unknown.

Early hashlet purchasers at $16 are likely to achieve full ROI due to the superior ZenPool profitability. It is much less certain at the current price of $40 for HashletPrime. Hashlet Solo costs between $16 and $22. Daily maintenance fees are about 25% of earnings for HashletPrime/ZenHashlet and and about 50% for other Hashlet Solos as of September 6, 2014. It has been promised by GAW that maintenance fees will decrease over time to sustain profitability, however further details are not available.

SHA256 hashlets at $10 per 10 GH/s and $0.02 daily maintenance fee would need BTC difficulty increases to average ~5% to achieve 100% ROI and at 5% it would take ~280 days. This is similar to other cloud mining services such as Bitmain's UMISOO: ~260 days at 5% (UMISOO has lower initial costs and higher maintenance fees than hashlet).

Such a low BTC difficulty increase over the next ~9 months is highly unlikely, so ROI of SHA256 hashlets will depend mostly on the promised reduction of maintenance fees.
                                      
6) Q: ZenPool pays an 11% interest on customers' BTC balances in the form of HashPoints, which can be later redeemed for hashlets. How are customers' funds being used and secured? A: Unknown.

The are no deposit or investment risk disclosures. There is no mention of HashPoints in ZenMiner Terms of Service (TOS).

7) Is the Vaultbreaker, GAW's 750 MH/s "Titan killer", still on track to be delivered in Q3/Q4 of 2014? A: Unknown.

Despite the delays suffered by Flower Tech and Ensilica, GAW's rumored partners in Vaultbreaker production, GAW still insists the device is on time. However there were substantial incentives for Vaultbreaker Batch 1 buyers to convert their purchases into Hashlets and similar incentives are expected for Batch 2. Some buyers and observers have speculated that the hashlet may be a funding source for Vaultbreaker development.
https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/14763-hashlets/?p=126748



This is the 4th version of this post. Older versions can be found below in their entirety.

Previous versions of this post

Quote from: Edit: August 26, 2014

Let me start with a disclaimer: I'm not particularly fond of GAW and its business practices and that is well documented around here. Feel free to take what I have to say with your daily dose of sodium.

With that out of the way, let's take a look at one of GAW's latest endeavors: The Hashlet.

The marketing blurb claims that the Hashlet is a Digital Cloud Miner that will always remain profitable. Promised future enhancements include changeable algorithms, currently only Scrypt is supported.

Major unanswered questions about the Hashlet:

1) Hashlet has exclusive use of ZenPool, "World's Most Profitable Pool" according to GAW. Nothing is know about this pool, except some hints that GAW have been acquiring mining pools and hash rental services. However ZenPool provides profitability that is 50%+ above any other Scrypt pool: ~0.00073 BTC per MH/s per day as of August 25, 2014, compared to ~0.00043 BTC per MH/s per day on WafflePool, the best paying Scrypt pool at the time. ZenPool payouts exceed even rental services where prices top out at ~0.00060 BTC per MH/s per day. Question: how does ZenPool achieve its profitability?

2) As of August 25, 2014 ZenPool hashrate was in excess of 250 GH/s. That is 1/3 of LTC hashrate and about twice the hashrate of all other Scrypt coins combined. Considering that LTC profitability is around 0.00038 BTC per MH/s per day and ZenPool pays nearly twice that, the only plausible option to sustain the payouts would be for ZenPool to mine twice as much LTC as it's advertised hashrate, i.e. 500 GH/s. However that would mean 2/3 of LTC network hashrate belongs to GAW and there is no evidence to support that. Question: where is ZenPool's hashrate?

3) GAW/Zen is paying an 11% annual interest rate in the form of Hashpoints (can be redeemed for Hashlets) on all BTC balances held by customers on the cloud mining site. This includes not only balances accrued through mining but also BTC transfered by customers into their Zen accounts from elsewhere. There is no information available on how these balances are secured or what is the intended purpose of this incentive. Question: How are customers' funds being used and secured?

Other questions:

1) Admins/owners of mining pools (TMB, CoinKing, Multipool.us, etc) have repeatedly asked GAW/Zen to explain the apparent lack of GAW/Zen hashrate on their pools when customers choose to use one of those pools. This has been rendered mostly obsolete by ZenPool being the obvious choice for Hashlets, as well as the statements below. However this was never addressed or observed directly, for example there was no significant decrease in hashrate on any of non-GAW pools after GAW announced they will only mine on their own pools.
https://hashtalk.org/t/questions-you-have/6487/67
Quote
When a miner switches pools, depending on a few factors, our controller will often switch the user to a different physical miner that is already mining to the pool they select. So in other words, there is X amount of hash mining to all pools, all the time.
https://hashtalk.org/t/zencloud-pool-announcement/8136
Quote
After careful review, we've decided pointing our hashing power to these pools is counterproductive for our goal of promoting stability in this industry. Instead, we will be sending our hashing power to our own private pools, but keeping your payouts 100% based on the pool you select. This effectively gives you access to your favorite pools, but now with nearly perfect uptime.

2) Is the Hashlet its own hardware device? A plausible theory would be that the Hashlet is a 1 MH/s "slice" of existing Scrypt hardware, e.g. Zeus or Innosilicon. GAW insists it owns "proprietary hashlet hardware", which raises the question how this hardware could have been developed and produced given the timelines and other constraints. There is also a promise of future "changeable algorithms", which would imply hardware far more advanced than any other vendor has been able to produce.

3) Is the Vaultbreaker, GAW's 750 MH/s "Titan killer", still on track to be delivered in Q3/Q4 of 2014? Despite the delays suffered by Flower Tech and Ensilica, GAW's rumored partners in Vaultbreaker development, GAW still insists the device is on time. However there are substantial incentives for Vaultbreaker buyers to convert their purchases into Hashlets.

Quote from: Edit: August 15, 2014

Let me start with a disclaimer: I'm not particularly fond of GAW and its business practices and that is well documented around here. Feel free to take what I have to say with your daily dose of sodium.

With that out of the way, let's take a look at one of GAW's latest endeavors: The Hashlet.

This is its announcement on Hashtalk forum: https://hashtalk.org/t/mining-has-finally-evolved/6125

If that doesn't raise any red flags then I don't know what would. Some memorable quotes:

Quote
A Hashet is capable of things no physical miner or virtual miner could ever be! Simply put, a Hashlet is a Digital Cloud Miner that keeps getting better

Quote
We’ve produced a miner incapable of negative ROIs because the maintenance fees can reduce over time! Thats right, there will never be a time a Hashlet cost more to run then you make, and they will always make money.

Quote
Hashlets will be the only miners that will be able to mine to the new ZenPool, the Most Profitable Pool in the World [...] that can deliver payouts almost twice as high as the top pools today!

Quote
Hashlets are upgradeable. How can a digital miner be upgradeable? Simple, because its digital and we built it

Originally this post started as an analysis of ZenCloud service, one of the components of the Hashlet infrastructure. Since then GAW have acquired ZenCloud from its owner/founder and merged it with other parts of their business as described above. Below is the original post in full. Some parts of it no longer apply, since the Hashlet does not have a physical delivery option and it's explicitly stated it WILL ALWAYS MAKE MONEY.

Quote from: The original post of this thread August 1, 2014
Let me start with a disclaimer: I'm not particularly fond of GAW and its business practices and that is well documented around here. Feel free to take what I have to say with your daily dose of sodium.

With that out of the way, let's take a look at one of GAW's latest endeavors: ZenMiner Cloud.

Here's zenMiner_Eric introducing the service conveniently in my thread, which is actually what prompted me to do this writeup:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=537912.msg8136793#msg8136793

tl;dr: ZenMiner Cloud will host miners purchased from GAW.

So far so good. Here is why I think though that the whole set up is a hoax:

1) GAW used to provide their own hosting. Not anymore. Zen is the only option for hosted GAW products. GAW hosting used to experience all kinds of delays and stability issues, especially with their Gen A products (rebranded Zeus space heaters). Zen however is magically able to provide 24-hour set up and 99.9% uptime with what seems to be a one-man operation.

2) Miner hashrates on Zen cloud bear little resemblance to real life. For example GAW promised to provide the initially specified 478 GH/s with hosted AntMiner S3, even though the actual hardware was downgraded by Bitmain to 440 GH/s. How is that possible remains a mystery. Below is a chart of incredibly smooth Falcon hashrate on Zen cloud, and a chart for a real Falcon:

Zen: http://i.snag.gy/uGP28.jpg
Real: http://i.snag.gy/51yjE.jpg

3) Zen cloud does not allow to specify your own pools. It has a list of predefined pools (major ones like CleverMining, NiceHash, etc are included) but there is no proof anywhere that it's actually mining on any of them. There were some questions raised on hashtalk forums about why there is nothing visible on smaller pools when Zen rigs are pointed to them but I don't believe these questions were ever answered. Pool earnings "based on most recent pool payouts" as they put it are clearly unrealistic (I happen to have some hard data on the real numbers). For example as of now NiceHash is estimated at 0.0008 BTC per MH/s per day, WafflePool roughly the same, which may sound close to reality, but all others are just 5% below and very similar to each other, which is completely bogus.

4) Zen will deliver your miners if you choose to "unhost" them, but that may take two weeks. This can be interpreted in two different ways. One would be that this is a ridiculously long amount of time and it's purpose is to discourage taking delivery, but for someone really persistent they need two weeks to find a used miner. Or see below.

Here is why I think this is a real thing:

1) Zen will deliver your miners if you choose to "unhost" them.

Now since I'm clearly short on that "real thing" part, I'm very interested if anyone has any further proof. Please speak up if you:
  • have received a delivery from zen cloud - how long did it take, did you get what you paid for etc
  • can show any kind kind of mining proof, perhaps a payout address that can be traced to a publicly listed address on nicehash
  • live across the street from the massive zen cloud facility and can share some pictures of the nuclear power plant next to it and zenMiner_Eric carting miners around in the middle of the night
  • have anything else that in your opinion contributes to the subject (or doesn't, flame away if you're so inclined)


One more thing. I've seen other similar secretive mining services often called "ponzi schemes". Technically a properly set up fictional mining service does not have to be a ponzi. As long as the amount of money charged upfront plus monthly fees exceeds what the "miner" will ever earn such service does not depend on new investors to pay out previous investors, i.e. is not a ponzi. It will be simply unprofitable, which is not uncommon in crypto mining.


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August 07, 2014, 05:10:52 PM
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ok here are some real facts:

1. zenminer.com was registered at 2013-12-19 . Eric was working on something since then. might be nothing, but might also be a big cloud mining service.

2. since ca 3 month zenminer.com is delivering their zencontroller hardware. it's a raspberry pi which can control zeusminer and now even gridseed miner. many gaw customers got it for free. so we can see that somebody spent munch time on software development and hardware assembly ( flashing sd cards etc.. )

3. zenminer has full control over the zencontroller devices. so even if they have no own miners, they could redirect the miners of zencontroller-users

4. with the help of the zencontroller they can deploy their own miners very fast. this is no prrof that they do, but it would be really easy..

5. Josh ( CEO of GAW ) has trust in Eric ( CEO of Zenminer ). So this is my cause for also to trust Eric.
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August 07, 2014, 05:31:27 PM
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ok here are some real facts:

1. zenminer.com was registered at 2013-12-19 . Eric was working on something since then. might be nothing, but might also be a big cloud mining service.

2. since ca 3 month zenminer.com is delivering their zencontroller hardware. it's a raspberry pi which can control zeusminer and now even gridseed miner. many gaw customers got it for free. so we can see that somebody spent munch time on software development and hardware assembly ( flashing sd cards etc.. )

3. zenminer has full control over the zencontroller devices. so even if they have no own miners, they could redirect the miners of zencontroller-users

4. with the help of the zencontroller they can deploy their own miners very fast. this is no prrof that they do, but it would be really easy..

5. Josh ( CEO of GAW ) has trust in Eric ( CEO of Zenminer ). So this is my cause for also to trust Eric.

Thank you. I don't question the ZenController. Even though I haven't seen one, there is a lot of feedback around here about it, so I don't doubt that Zen has a real product.

But the cloud thing is something quite different. Consider this: the power requirements for a service like that would be MASSIVE. GAW's own hosting service has always struggled with power requirements. We don't know anything about how Zen is solving that. Even the location/capacity/utilization/etc of their DC is not known. Ok, I can understand the desire to keep the location secret, but some info on how the miners are hosted is actually quite important, since the customers OWN the miners and can take delivery.

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August 11, 2014, 12:32:05 AM
 #4

Somewhat anticlimactic announcement:

https://hashtalk.org/t/gaw-miners-acquires-controlling-equity-in-zenminer/5223

tldr: GAW owns ZenMiner, as if there ever was any doubt about that.

What cought my eye in this announcement - some new features promised by the CEO:

Quote
cutting-edge pool monitoring that automatically switches your pools to the the highest ROI targets in ream-time

Quote
24hr activation times slashed down to instant activations

Quote
hardware trading that lets you buy, sell, and exchange your miners without needing to take them out of the cloud or even offline for a nanosecond

Ok, I get the activations and trading, that's conceivable. But what in the world is "highest ROI targets" Grin

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August 16, 2014, 01:14:21 AM
 #5

Ok, I admit, I stayed up into stupid hours to wait for the GAW announcement:

https://hashtalk.org/t/mining-has-finally-evolved/6125

If that doesn't raise any red flags then I don't know what would. Some memorable quotes:

Quote
A Hashet is capable of things no physical miner or virtual miner could ever be! Simply put, a Hashlet is a Digital Cloud Miner that keeps getting better

Quote
We’ve produced a miner incapable of negative ROIs because the maintenance fees can reduce over time! Thats right, there will never be a time a Hashlet cost more to run then you make, and they will always make money.

Quote
Hashlets will be the only miners that will be able to mine to the new ZenPool, the Most Profitable Pool in the World [...] that can deliver payouts almost twice as high as the top pools today!

Quote
Hashlets are upgradeable. How can a digital miner be upgradeable? Simple, because its digital and we built it


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August 16, 2014, 02:02:15 AM
 #6

It's pretty obvious that GAW/Zen is out of cash and desperate.

I'm not sure how they could decided that a ridiculous announcement like this would keep them going.

A perpetual money machine.

That can't be a scam.  Cheesy

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August 16, 2014, 08:39:56 AM
 #7

After a little sleep I still don't see how this whole thing could be possibly spun into something honest. I read some of the hashtalk blabber too and there are some desperate attempts to justify it but it's just making it more pathetic. Nevermind the immense effort to keep it under control - posts are being yanked literally while I'm reading them Grin

One thing is clear though. There are loyalists to sustain this thing for a while, whether they are complicit, naive, or just cornered by the clusterfuck that is Scrypt mining lately.

There are some other possibly relevant details. GAW appears to be planning to start delivery of the Vaultbreaker (750 MH/s Scrypt and Scrypt-N miner) on or around August 28. Of course it will be hosted on the cloud and not actually shipped. The interesting part is that when the Vaultbreaker was announced it was widely believed that it's based on Ensilica technology, same as Flower Tech miners. Flower announced yesterday (coincidence?) that their Ensilica-based miners won't be delivered until February 2015 with 4 times more performance per chip. GAW still maintains they are on time and did not update the Vaultbreaker to 3 GH/s. It would be probably redundant to start another thread "Vaultbreaker - does it really exist?" Smiley

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August 16, 2014, 12:41:21 PM
 #8

Can anyone else access hashtalk.org - because nothing seems to be coming up when I click on these links to follow the discussion.
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August 16, 2014, 01:48:57 PM
 #9


I think it is misleading how they make the Hashlet look like and market it to look like a piece of hardware when it's really a combined virtual commodity of scrypt and sha (similar to cex.io). They haven't released any details yet as of this morning, but last night the customers we not happy on hashtalk after the announcement.  The responses from the gaw staff were surprised that the customers weren't responding well. One of the threads on hashtalk got closed last night on the "prime" announcement was closed when the customers started to get critical on the announcement. The owner was thinking he just invented sliced bread, but customers were not as impressed. My opinion on hashtalk.org is that it's a shill for Gaw, I don't really recommend going there for real advice or questions (it's like going to the car dealership lobby and having coffee with the salespeople asking for car advice), you'll get better advice on bitcointalk.org.

The "always make money" statement is tied to lots of details that were peppered in some of the comments and tied to "zenpoints" in which they want customers to leave mined btc (or make deposits there) to pay for maintenance fees. It has not been clear what they intend to do with customer deposits, I've been asking the questions on hashtalk and the threads either get closed by the CEO or ignored. Some other community members have been asking the same questions (wallet security, offline/cold wallets, open audits, and what they are doing with stored coins).

To be honest, I don't think they are trying to scam anyone, but I do think the owner is trying to be the PT barnum of mining with a lot of marketing while current customers needs are not being dealt with (shipping delays, support questions taking days, etc).
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August 16, 2014, 02:28:46 PM
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I think it is misleading how they make the Hashlet look like and market it to look like a piece of hardware when it's really a combined virtual commodity of scrypt and sha (similar to cex.io). They haven't released any details yet as of this morning, but last night the customers we not happy on hashtalk after the announcement.  The responses from the gaw staff were surprised that the customers weren't responding well. One of the threads on hashtalk got closed last night on the "prime" announcement was closed when the customers started to get critical on the announcement. The owner was thinking he just invented sliced bread, but customers were not as impressed. My opinion on hashtalk.org is that it's a shill for Gaw, I don't really recommend going there for real advice or questions (it's like going to the car dealership lobby and having coffee with the salespeople asking for car advice), you'll get better advice on bitcointalk.org.

The "always make money" statement is tied to lots of details that were peppered in some of the comments and tied to "zenpoints" in which they want customers to leave mined btc (or make deposits there) to pay for maintenance fees. It has not been clear what they intend to do with customer deposits, I've been asking the questions on hashtalk and the threads either get closed by the CEO or ignored. Some other community members have been asking the same questions (wallet security, offline/cold wallets, open audits, and what they are doing with stored coins).

To be honest, I don't think they are trying to scam anyone, but I do think the owner is trying to be the PT barnum of mining with a lot of marketing while current customers needs are not being dealt with (shipping delays, support questions taking days, etc).


I just want to thank the poster above. You post brings up actual concerns without slander and accusations. You are an ACTUAL representative for the consumer.

Now on to suchmoon Smiley

It is absolutely obvious that you do not speak from a customer's perspective but a competitor Smiley haha I encourage you to work on your business model before shooting down others in hopes that the consumer will choose your pool over someones else's.

I leave you with a quote from one of my life's mentors: "With major success comes major hate. It's when the haters stop hating that one needs to worry."

So please suchmoon please go on hating Smiley You will be for a while.

Now where do I buy a Hashlet!?!?!?!
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August 16, 2014, 02:36:03 PM
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Don't come in with a sockpuppet account and trash members. How about addressing what he is saying instead of being a sheep?
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August 16, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
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 I assure you this is my one and only account. I am a frequent browser of this forum and felt the need to address an obvious competitor Smiley

I'm sorry if you do not like my posts but much like suchmoon I am free to share my view and opinion. "bahhh bahhh" (sheep sound)
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August 16, 2014, 02:45:42 PM
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Not so much a sockpuppet when the username includes GAW. My main concern is that it looks kinda shady and unverifiable. Just like the pool settings in ZenCloud. I'd like to specify my own pool info, get hashes there and get payments directly. I've deposited a few BTC into my account with ZenCloud and it started bouncing around from one address to another directly after hitting their account with small snippets falling off each time. I don't know enough about mixing/washing but to me it looks kinda shady. Same thing with the CEX.io copy as far as I can see.

Paying once for a Gh/s and then having them upgrade hardware along the way to make sure your electricity costs per hash are going down over time to stay profitable are good ideas but someone will have to pay for the new hardware. On the other hand. Buying a thousand Ant S3's and getting them running gives a cashflow with which one should be able to run for a while and afford upgrade over time.

I'm not calling it a scam, it's just a bit too vague for me atm. I've got 5 miners in their cloud since I don't want to have the machines running at home or in the office but I'm keeping a close watch on them.

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August 16, 2014, 02:51:14 PM
 #14


I think it is misleading how they make the Hashlet look like and market it to look like a piece of hardware when it's really a combined virtual commodity of scrypt and sha (similar to cex.io). They haven't released any details yet as of this morning, but last night the customers we not happy on hashtalk after the announcement.  The responses from the gaw staff were surprised that the customers weren't responding well. One of the threads on hashtalk got closed last night on the "prime" announcement was closed when the customers started to get critical on the announcement. The owner was thinking he just invented sliced bread, but customers were not as impressed. My opinion on hashtalk.org is that it's a shill for Gaw, I don't really recommend going there for real advice or questions (it's like going to the car dealership lobby and having coffee with the salespeople asking for car advice), you'll get better advice on bitcointalk.org.

The "always make money" statement is tied to lots of details that were peppered in some of the comments and tied to "zenpoints" in which they want customers to leave mined btc (or make deposits there) to pay for maintenance fees. It has not been clear what they intend to do with customer deposits, I've been asking the questions on hashtalk and the threads either get closed by the CEO or ignored. Some other community members have been asking the same questions (wallet security, offline/cold wallets, open audits, and what they are doing with stored coins).

To be honest, I don't think they are trying to scam anyone, but I do think the owner is trying to be the PT barnum of mining with a lot of marketing while current customers needs are not being dealt with (shipping delays, support questions taking days, etc).


I just want to thank the poster above. You post brings up actual concerns without slander and accusations. You are an ACTUAL representative for the consumer.


Don't just thank him, shill, speak to his concerns.

At least he isn't creating a new account to hide his identity.


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August 16, 2014, 02:57:49 PM
 #15

https://hashtalk.org/
500 Internal Server Error
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August 16, 2014, 03:12:50 PM
 #16



Don't just thank him, shill, speak to his concerns.

At least he isn't creating a new account to hide his identity.


[/quote]

I'm unsure as to why you think I have another account with no basis? I thanked him because I too share his concerns. I am a founding member and have had experiences with GAW ranging from shipment delays and hosting problems all the way to expedited service to make things right.

The difference is how he voiced his concerns. I respect that.

It just seems to me that some members here post nothing but negative reviews while trying to seem unbiased. Make it look like there may be an alterior  motive....

For the consumers sake, let's make an effort to make this an educational thread so that one may make an educated and unbiased decision. Although I am aware that slander is encouraged I mean accepted in this thread..or any thread started by suchmoon it seems Smiley

Also, I have reached out and inquired about hashtalk going down and was told that the amount of traffic is overloading the server. I kept trying and was able to eventually get through.
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August 16, 2014, 03:32:22 PM
 #17

For the consumers sake, let's make an effort to make this an educational thread so that one may make an educated and unbiased decision. Although I am aware that slander is encouraged I mean accepted in this thread..or any thread started by suchmoon it seems Smiley

You seem to be confused about how this thing works. You're the one coming in with ad hominem and trying to steer the discussion. I have started the thread with a clear disclaimer and some questions, but if you don't like where this is going you are free to start your own thread. I would PREFER if you stayed on topic, but I don't have any say as to what's accepted or not here. I hope this clarifies it, and if you have any personal questions or issues with me feel free to PM me.

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August 16, 2014, 03:34:53 PM
 #18

I'm going to post the full CEO announcement here because hashtalk.org is having some issues. I can't post the full thread, sorry. Keep refreshing the page, it does work sometimes.

https://hashtalk.org/t/hashlet-mining-has-finally-evolved/6125

Quote from: GAW_CEO
Hey Everyone,

The time has come for me to unveil a major step forward in our plans for “Project Prime”.

But first, I want to share with you all a few words on the state of Litecoin. As most of you know, the recent changes in LTC value have been alarming. We know you feel every dip in profitability and we know many of you feel uncertain about your future place in this industry. You want profitability, but ROIs have been extremely hard to come by.

Today, all of that changes. We’ve started from the ground up and are launching an entirely new class of miner.

In the beginning there was the CPU. Then there was the GPU. Then there was the ASIC.

And then there was The Hashlet.

Do I have your attention now?

Take a deep breath. Buckle up. And hang on. We’re going for a ride!

We were up for the challenge
GAW Miners has sold more ASIC miners than any other provider in the world. You can say that we are “somewhat experts” in knowing what makes a good miner. We have seen just about everything out there and learned a ton in the process.

It turns out they all have the same problems! They all depreciate faster than you make money, they are severely unupgradeable, and sometime soon they will even cost more to run then you make!

What is a Hashlet?
Hashlets started with one goal: to bring all the best parts of hardware miners forward, and leave behind all their limitations. Hashlet is the result of our most ambitious R&D initiative ever. We’ve built into every Hashlet miner jaw-dropping features that you could never dream of having on previous hardware. I’m talking features like zero pool fees, Forever. I’m talking features like maintenance fees that actually decline over time.

A Hashet is capable of things no physical miner or virtual miner could ever be! Simply put, a Hashlet is a Digital Cloud Miner that keeps getting better smile

The First Digital Cloud Miner
Right off the bat, this means Hashlets are exclusively housed and controlled from ZenCloud.

The future of profitability is in cloud mining and the only way to deliver this level of technology at this scale is in datecenters. But that’s where’s things really start getting interesting because now that we’ve acquired ZenMiner, we can mix their hosting technology with our next-generation hardware. We’ve produced a miner incapable of negative ROIs because the maintenance fees can reduce over time! Thats right, there will never be a time a Hashlet cost more to run then you make, and they will always make money.

Introducing ZenPool “The Worlds Most Profitable Pool”
Hashlets will be the only miners that will be able to mine to the new ZenPool, the Most Profitable Pool in the World. Leveraging the scale of our hashing power, along with the technology ZenMiners has built, we have joined together to create a pool that can deliver payouts almost twice as high as the top pools today!

Yea, you read that right. In addition, we will continue to improve our technology to hold payouts for longer than any other pool.

Hashlets will be upgraded over time…...
Finally, Hashlets are upgradeable. How can a digital miner be upgradeable? Simple, because its digital and we built it smile The same Hashlet miner may one day be upgradeable beyond limit… and, well… it might just even be able to mine other algorithms wink

This is what you want from a miner. And so we’ve done what it takes to give it to you. You’re truly going to be the first people know what a miner can be capable of.

So let me make one thing crystal clear to everyone reading. Hashlet has changed miners forever and they go on sale tomorrow!

Mining has finally evolved.

Josh, CEO

PS. We are working on an upgrade option to allow all previous GAW Generation hardware to be upgraded to a Hashlet.

Later tonight we will release global chat, leaderboards, and the ability to use your zencoins for maintenance!

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August 16, 2014, 03:44:25 PM
 #19

For the consumers sake, let's make an effort to make this an educational thread so that one may make an educated and unbiased decision. Although I am aware that slander is encouraged I mean accepted in this thread..or any thread started by suchmoon it seems Smiley

You seem to be confused about how this thing works. You're the one coming in with ad hominem and trying to steer the discussion. I have started the thread with a clear disclaimer and some questions, but if you don't like where this is going you are free to start your own thread. I would PREFER if you stayed on topic, but I don't have any say as to what's accepted or not here. I hope this clarifies it, and if you have any personal questions or issues with me feel free to PM me.

Thank you for the clarification moon Smiley You are very tactful by starting your threads with a "disclaimer", I have no need to pm you but rest assured I will be responding to everyone of your threads.

And remember: It's not good to gamble Wink


Thank you for posting the link to hashtalk!
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August 16, 2014, 03:45:53 PM
 #20

is there someone here who has tried to unhost their miner?
is the condition of miner still good?
I have read about someone who unhost his miner, and when the miner arrive at home the miner condition is really bad.


.LET'S CHANGE GLOBAL HEALTHCARE TOGETHER.

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