GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[blg425]

not loading again?

[tom99]

 yes, not working again and alot of upgrade.  I am out here to get some rest.

[suchmoon]

Here we go.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/6966/state-of-zencloud-address

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v-h5HxA-NYDvX8Cbf0Do4a6zZ1BzRXo8xUqCVLbe0ow/edit?usp=sharing

Code:

State of ZenCloud Address


Good evening everyone!

Its been an exciting last few weeks. We have made huge progress in making
Hashles available to miners all over the world. I wanted to take some time
to provide some information about our last update. My goal is to get all
the information in one place, so you dont have to hunt around. First, lets
start with some ZenStats!

State of ZenCloud
In the last 2 weeks, ZenCloud has seen a:
We have seen a 2x Increase in total network hashrate
Our ZenCloud code base has grown by 3X
There bas been a 8X increase in transactions
We have created over 5,000 brand new miners!
Many of our customers have already reach ROI, and many are closing in!
Some of our customer have made triple their investments, its been an
incredible feeling to bring ROI back to mining.

We said we would bring back profitability back to mining. This is no longer
a future goal, its happening now! On to some system updates!

Bugfixes
Fixed:
Multiple Hashlet splitting/merging issues.
Reset Password Vulnerability
Improper destroying of sessions

Bounties for Bugfixes
Since we’ve had a number of incredible individuals come forward and disclose
many of the bugs in our system, discretely, we’ve decided to reward those who
were the first to report bugs. We’ll be reaching out to you by the end of the week.

In the meantime, we’ll be rolling out a Bug Bounty Program to ZenCloud. Now
any ZenCloud user can discreetly notify us of bugs and earn rewards for their
efforts. Stay tuned for a new web portal that will be used for submitting new entries.

Delays
Between additional SHA hardware being added the the network and the enormous
number of Prime Hashlets sold, SHA-256 pool targeting on Primes will be released
later. We will use this time on the development side of things to correct the bugs in
ZenCloud as we add additional SHA output.

ZenCloud Bugs
Payouts / Deposits
Payouts
Payouts have been working smoothly up until very recently. Between the enormous
success of Hashlet and the sheer number of features they offer over other miners
(splitting/merging/boosting/selling), the complexity of our system has increased many
times over. Add to that a 3x increase in our user base and you have a situation where
payouts have slowed to a crawl on our old system. @evanlucas has designed a brand
new payout system, far more appropriate for this new environment. He and his team
are currently working on development.  We expect that by the end of the week we will
be waving goodbye to these 13hr payout rounds :)

Deposits
Currently, the most popular way companies like ours add btc deposits to their wallet
systems is to treat it similar to a merchant service. You buy and checkout with BTC
as your payment method -- but instead of getting a product, you get BTC in your wallet.
It’s a solid technique, easy to implement, and robust under most conditions.

We’ve exceeded those conditions.

As many of you know, we use an online wallet that supports a REST web service that
supports callbacks. Callbacks let us know when deposits are 1) made and 2) confirmed.
This is a great service and has worked well for us up until recently. But now we’re process
so many simultaneous transactions that we’re getting confirmations faster than services like
Blockchain.info can send us callbacks to let us know. That means delays.

These delays have understandably caused some users to feel uncomfortable depositing BTC
into their ZenCloud account. This is an important issue. We’re migrating to a bitcoind
implementation to give us more control over how actual deposits are made and confirmed.

This will also allow us to kill two birds with one stone. With bitcoind, we will now be able
to give users a permanent BTC address in addition to the regenerated addresses we currently
use. Now, even if you decide to regenerate your BTC wallet address, your old address will be
saved so that any bitcoin sent to any old addresses you've used will also be credited to your
account balance and shown in the activity log.
All of this is a major overhaul we have been working on for some time now. Implementation
is planned for the end of this week. We’ll keep you up to date in the meantime.


Hashlets
Splitting
Currently Hashlet need to be split to 1/5/15/25/50/75/100 increments to be sold. Converted
hardware like Furys and War Machines don’t have these round numbers and haven’t been able
to be sold. That’s all changing very soon.

We’re developing the ability for users to sell any amount of MH/GH by simply placing their
entire Hashlet for sale, whatever its size. The way this works is quite a bit different than the
currently implemented strategy. The current logic matches buyers with sellers of the same
Hashlet size. The new sophisticated purchasing/selling logic will queue any size Hashlet
and chunk it out or pack it with other Hashlets over time to match the sizes buyers want.
This means that for example, a 34MH Hashlet will sell right away to a 50MH buyer, and the
buyer’s call will be converted from a 50MH to a 26MH buy. This raises a few questions, which
I will cover in the actual announcement when this feature is released.

Hashlets Not Selling
We’ve tracked down the bug that causes some Hashlets, regardless of size, to not sell in the market.
We will be running a database migration on Friday to reconcile the affected Hashlets so they will
be sellable once again. Don’t worry, we’ll make sure that this won’t affect your hashing output.
Just be ready to see your Hashlet’s selling if you have had in the sale queue for a while. We will
make an additional announcement about this change after it is complete.


Account Transfer Security
We’re aware of a session expiration issue that allowed accounts to login at multiple locations
for extended periods of time. This presented a security issue for anyone who purchased an
account from a private party. Though there have not been many, there have been a few
reports of accounts being sold, then recaptured by the seller after the transaction was made.
We’ve corrected this by ensuring sessions are destroyed after a much shorter period of no
user-invoked activities.

Additionally, there was a small window of time where users had the opportunity to abuse the
“Reset Password” function to regain access to an account they recently sold. This has been fixed

We currently working with a cyber security firm that specializes in securing complex web applications.
These are good guys, comprised of ex-military “white hat” hackers skilled in the areas of ethical
hacking and multifaceted penetration testing. We’re happy to bring them on board to keep security
tight, even as we roll out new features bi-weekly.


Quality Assurance
We’re taking a more aggressive stance to prevent bugs and potential security issues. We’ve
integrated a comprehensive testing and quality assurance phase to make sure every feature
we add is tested rigorously before release. It is now part of our development process. We have
and continue to bring additional QA engineers onboard.


Closing Comments
I want thank everyone again for being patient while we work through these issues. Building the
best and most feature-filled cloud mining service the world has ever seen is an enormous undertaking
and will come with a few bumps along the way. We’re taking them very seriously and we’ve made
fixing them our top priority.

Thanks everyone,

Hash on.

Josh/CEO

[dekodoge]

Having to do with VirWox not GAWSminer Zencloud but......


Im wondering about this pattern of BTC trades seen lately, the past few days:

114,899   1.770   1.770
114,968   0.442   2.212
114,998   0.020   2.232
115,449   0.500   2.732
115,450   0.500   3.232
115,455   0.510   3.742
115,456   0.510   4.252
115,962   0.500   4.752
115,963   0.500   5.252
116,455   0.625   5.877
116,456   0.625   6.502
116,985   0.125   6.627
116,986   0.125   6.752

Mine is the .50 at 115,450......115449 shows up regardless of what I do. Curious minds
want to know!!

When will Bitcoin start back up? Has this price pattern been seen before?

I love Bitcoin and GAWSminer!

need more input, traded where/what pair?


isn't the first number just the VOL?

[Flep182]

<off-topic spamcrap>
Again, if posting such a link here is a violation I apologize. Just deal with it!

What the fuck does this have to do with GAW Zencloud?

[DARKANGEL6415]

Here we go.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/6966/state-of-zencloud-address

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v-h5HxA-NYDvX8Cbf0Do4a6zZ1BzRXo8xUqCVLbe0ow/edit?usp=sharing

Code:

State of ZenCloud Address


Good evening everyone!

Its been an exciting last few weeks. We have made huge progress in making
Hashles available to miners all over the world. I wanted to take some time
to provide some information about our last update. My goal is to get all
the information in one place, so you dont have to hunt around. First, lets
start with some ZenStats!

State of ZenCloud
In the last 2 weeks, ZenCloud has seen a:
We have seen a 2x Increase in total network hashrate
Our ZenCloud code base has grown by 3X
There bas been a 8X increase in transactions
We have created over 5,000 brand new miners!
Many of our customers have already reach ROI, and many are closing in!
Some of our customer have made triple their investments, its been an
incredible feeling to bring ROI back to mining.

We said we would bring back profitability back to mining. This is no longer
a future goal, its happening now! On to some system updates!

Bugfixes
Fixed:
Multiple Hashlet splitting/merging issues.
Reset Password Vulnerability
Improper destroying of sessions

Bounties for Bugfixes
Since we’ve had a number of incredible individuals come forward and disclose
many of the bugs in our system, discretely, we’ve decided to reward those who
were the first to report bugs. We’ll be reaching out to you by the end of the week.

In the meantime, we’ll be rolling out a Bug Bounty Program to ZenCloud. Now
any ZenCloud user can discreetly notify us of bugs and earn rewards for their
efforts. Stay tuned for a new web portal that will be used for submitting new entries.

Delays
Between additional SHA hardware being added the the network and the enormous
number of Prime Hashlets sold, SHA-256 pool targeting on Primes will be released
later. We will use this time on the development side of things to correct the bugs in
ZenCloud as we add additional SHA output.

ZenCloud Bugs
Payouts / Deposits
Payouts
Payouts have been working smoothly up until very recently. Between the enormous
success of Hashlet and the sheer number of features they offer over other miners
(splitting/merging/boosting/selling), the complexity of our system has increased many
times over. Add to that a 3x increase in our user base and you have a situation where
payouts have slowed to a crawl on our old system. @evanlucas has designed a brand
new payout system, far more appropriate for this new environment. He and his team
are currently working on development.  We expect that by the end of the week we will
be waving goodbye to these 13hr payout rounds :)

Deposits
Currently, the most popular way companies like ours add btc deposits to their wallet
systems is to treat it similar to a merchant service. You buy and checkout with BTC
as your payment method -- but instead of getting a product, you get BTC in your wallet.
It’s a solid technique, easy to implement, and robust under most conditions.

We’ve exceeded those conditions.

As many of you know, we use an online wallet that supports a REST web service that
supports callbacks. Callbacks let us know when deposits are 1) made and 2) confirmed.
This is a great service and has worked well for us up until recently. But now we’re process
so many simultaneous transactions that we’re getting confirmations faster than services like
Blockchain.info can send us callbacks to let us know. That means delays.

These delays have understandably caused some users to feel uncomfortable depositing BTC
into their ZenCloud account. This is an important issue. We’re migrating to a bitcoind
implementation to give us more control over how actual deposits are made and confirmed.

This will also allow us to kill two birds with one stone. With bitcoind, we will now be able
to give users a permanent BTC address in addition to the regenerated addresses we currently
use. Now, even if you decide to regenerate your BTC wallet address, your old address will be
saved so that any bitcoin sent to any old addresses you've used will also be credited to your
account balance and shown in the activity log.
All of this is a major overhaul we have been working on for some time now. Implementation
is planned for the end of this week. We’ll keep you up to date in the meantime.


Hashlets
Splitting
Currently Hashlet need to be split to 1/5/15/25/50/75/100 increments to be sold. Converted
hardware like Furys and War Machines don’t have these round numbers and haven’t been able
to be sold. That’s all changing very soon.

We’re developing the ability for users to sell any amount of MH/GH by simply placing their
entire Hashlet for sale, whatever its size. The way this works is quite a bit different than the
currently implemented strategy. The current logic matches buyers with sellers of the same
Hashlet size. The new sophisticated purchasing/selling logic will queue any size Hashlet
and chunk it out or pack it with other Hashlets over time to match the sizes buyers want.
This means that for example, a 34MH Hashlet will sell right away to a 50MH buyer, and the
buyer’s call will be converted from a 50MH to a 26MH buy. This raises a few questions, which
I will cover in the actual announcement when this feature is released.

Hashlets Not Selling
We’ve tracked down the bug that causes some Hashlets, regardless of size, to not sell in the market.
We will be running a database migration on Friday to reconcile the affected Hashlets so they will
be sellable once again. Don’t worry, we’ll make sure that this won’t affect your hashing output.
Just be ready to see your Hashlet’s selling if you have had in the sale queue for a while. We will
make an additional announcement about this change after it is complete.


Account Transfer Security
We’re aware of a session expiration issue that allowed accounts to login at multiple locations
for extended periods of time. This presented a security issue for anyone who purchased an
account from a private party. Though there have not been many, there have been a few
reports of accounts being sold, then recaptured by the seller after the transaction was made.
We’ve corrected this by ensuring sessions are destroyed after a much shorter period of no
user-invoked activities.

Additionally, there was a small window of time where users had the opportunity to abuse the
“Reset Password” function to regain access to an account they recently sold. This has been fixed

We currently working with a cyber security firm that specializes in securing complex web applications.
These are good guys, comprised of ex-military “white hat” hackers skilled in the areas of ethical
hacking and multifaceted penetration testing. We’re happy to bring them on board to keep security
tight, even as we roll out new features bi-weekly.


Quality Assurance
We’re taking a more aggressive stance to prevent bugs and potential security issues. We’ve
integrated a comprehensive testing and quality assurance phase to make sure every feature
we add is tested rigorously before release. It is now part of our development process. We have
and continue to bring additional QA engineers onboard.


Closing Comments
I want thank everyone again for being patient while we work through these issues. Building the
best and most feature-filled cloud mining service the world has ever seen is an enormous undertaking
and will come with a few bumps along the way. We’re taking them very seriously and we’ve made
fixing them our top priority.

Thanks everyone,

Hash on.

Josh/CEO

THAT is alot of announcements to roll out at 1 time. so when it says no more 13 hour pay outs i wonder if it means they will provide real time rewards. Just like cex.io does when a block is found or does it mean something else?

[Hazir]

The talk was about BitCoin fraud and I posted wondering about someone
dumping stolen bitcoins or some robot trading or who knows? It was something
odd on the VirWox exchange.

Appreciate your F-U attitude though, everybody walks around acting like
such dicks lately it seems. Just my opinion...

Stuff like this....



119,998   0.841   14.548
119,999   0.611   15.159
120,000   1.000   16.159
120,699   0.196   16.355
120,700   0.196   16.551
121,195   0.962   17.513
121,196   1.000   18.513
121,776   0.100   18.613
121,777   0.100   18.713
121,877   0.414   19.127
121,878   0.504   19.631
122,989   0.050   19.681
122,990   0.050   19.731

I don't get it. Why post it here in GAW thread?

[benjamin07]

either which way you look at...2 more days and i'm roi'd on my first purchase and that should snowball into roi'ing the rest of the way sooner I don't think they are a ponzi anymore...in fact if you look at day trading and if done right, you can make some serious money doing that...and the more you have to play with the more ya make course if done wrong...boom, done so idk...I'm happy right now to actually ROI on something scrypt right now...doing better then my actually hosted miners are doing...70mh/s on gaw beating out 85mh/s hosted...even if i was to magically know which pool was gona be great payout day i'd still lose out to gaw

aren't you concerned by this statement? they give you more return than you would have gotten yourself even if you knew who the winner would be?

[eightcylinders]

either which way you look at...2 more days and i'm roi'd on my first purchase and that should snowball into roi'ing the rest of the way sooner I don't think they are a ponzi anymore...in fact if you look at day trading and if done right, you can make some serious money doing that...and the more you have to play with the more ya make course if done wrong...boom, done so idk...I'm happy right now to actually ROI on something scrypt right now...doing better then my actually hosted miners are doing...70mh/s on gaw beating out 85mh/s hosted...even if i was to magically know which pool was gona be great payout day i'd still lose out to gaw

aren't you concerned by this statement? they give you more return than you would have gotten yourself even if you knew who the winner would be?

The problem is that is it obvious that no one who is beating the pro-GAW drum has any inkling of what a Ponzi scheme is.  "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."

I have been a very loyal GAW customer until zenpool and GAW merged... now, the red flags are going up all over the place on this zencloud/hashlet thing.  The fact that GAW won't even disclose mining addresses (which could not possibly reveal any propriety information about the so-called hashlets other than to prove actual mining ...) is as much as I need to know to get out of this mess as soon as I can.  ROI on the backs of subsequent customers is **theft**, not profit, even if it were to benefit me as an early adopter.

Josh, if you ever read this, and if by some chance hashlets are more than a Ponzi or Pyramid scheme, then PLEASE post mining addresses for each major coin you are mining.  Simple and effective way to prove you are more than PB Mining etc.  Until then, I am going on the assumption this is a long con ponzi or pyramid scheme.

For the uninformed (and FYI, the difference between ponzi and pyramid is subtle but the basic idea is the same - future investors outsized profits of early investors; and so-called profits are paid from new investment dollars rather than legitimate income from the advertised business activity - e.g., supposed mining):

RED FLAGS (From the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission reference below).  NOTE that hashlets meet EVERY SINGLE red flag listed by the SEC...

What are some Ponzi scheme "red flags"?
Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:

1.  High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity.

2.  Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions.  [CHECK - Zenpool's ability to outperform even the most seasons alt-coin and multipools and never have a "bad day" is more than remarkable]

3.  Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances. [CHECK - a whole different issue, but since GAW has admitted the hashlet is an investment in mining that is only **related** to actual pool mining, but "may" not actually be mining, the zenpool is at best an investment in a security and there has been no registration statement or even attempt to provide risk disclosures required for securities]

4.  Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms.  [CHECK]

5.  Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb.
Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised. [CHECK++++]

6.  Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over.  [CHECK - not especially the hashpoint and autoreinvest to discourage withdrawals, but also repeated "software" problems with withdrawals that often make it impossible to withdraw for lenghty periods]


FURTHER READING:
http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/telltale-signs-pyramid-scheme
http://www.forbes.com/sites/investopedia/2014/03/18/what-is-a-pyramid-scheme/
http://www.sec.gov/answers/pyramid.htm
http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Historical perspective:
http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1866680,00.html

Before replying and telling me how much ROI you are going to make, please read the above.  I have plenty of ROI on hashlets already assuming I can get out as promised, but that doesn't mean its not a Ponzi (I ROI'd on PB Mining too, but same issue applies to them and it looks likely they are nearing the collapse/tipping point soon).

Again, to GAW, if you are legitimate, all you need to do is post your mining addresses showing mining of actual coins (at least for the top 3-4 coins you are mining on zenpool) to prove mining activity in rough proportion to hashlet claimed hash power.  I had great hopes that hashlets were something truly new and exciting, but the longer this goes on without disclosure of even basic facts like mining addresses, the more concerned I have become.

Regards,

8cyl

[NuShrike]

If you look at erics linkedin profile he has the chops to handle what they are doing. My bet is they are growing too fast and attempting to do too much at once. It also doesn't help that people are buying tons of hashlets and probably leaving them as singles which adds to the db and increases the time needed to process payouts.

Sounds contradictory. How did they get into this mess if he has the "chops" ?  Overnight account-system changes aren't SOP for "chops" either.

Also, if he had the "chops", he would've known how to build a scaling system from the start, or at least catch it before it got this bad.

I think I'm still calling it. Another late #payoutwatch day.

[Flep182]

Good post by eightcylinders.

On the payouts, it's been veeeery late today. Plus I'm curious whether I will get paid today for a Genesis 10 Gh hashlet I bought yesterday just two hours before payments started. Nothing yesterday.

[bitgeek]

Again, to GAW, if you are legitimate, all you need to do is post your mining addresses showing mining of actual coins (at least for the top 3-4 coins you are mining on zenpool) to prove mining activity in rough proportion to hashlet claimed hash power.  I had great hopes that hashlets were something truly new and exciting, but the longer this goes on without disclosure of even basic facts like mining addresses, the more concerned I have become.

The longer they continue to operate the less ponzi shouters we'll see. If they are legit and I think they are the only thing they need to do is simply ignore you and go on. They don't have to prove anything to you. If you find the investment too risky don't invest.

[I_IZ_CEO]

either which way you look at...2 more days and i'm roi'd on my first purchase and that should snowball into roi'ing the rest of the way sooner I don't think they are a ponzi anymore...in fact if you look at day trading and if done right, you can make some serious money doing that...and the more you have to play with the more ya make course if done wrong...boom, done so idk...I'm happy right now to actually ROI on something scrypt right now...doing better then my actually hosted miners are doing...70mh/s on gaw beating out 85mh/s hosted...even if i was to magically know which pool was gona be great payout day i'd still lose out to gaw

aren't you concerned by this statement? they give you more return than you would have gotten yourself even if you knew who the winner would be?

The problem is that is it obvious that no one who is beating the pro-GAW drum has any inkling of what a Ponzi scheme is.  "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."

I have been a very loyal GAW customer until zenpool and GAW merged... now, the red flags are going up all over the place on this zencloud/hashlet thing.  The fact that GAW won't even disclose mining addresses (which could not possibly reveal any propriety information about the so-called hashlets other than to prove actual mining ...) is as much as I need to know to get out of this mess as soon as I can.  ROI on the backs of subsequent customers is **theft**, not profit, even if it were to benefit me as an early adopter.

Josh, if you ever read this, and if by some chance hashlets are more than a Ponzi or Pyramid scheme, then PLEASE post mining addresses for each major coin you are mining.  Simple and effective way to prove you are more than PB Mining etc.  Until then, I am going on the assumption this is a long con ponzi or pyramid scheme.

For the uninformed (and FYI, the difference between ponzi and pyramid is subtle but the basic idea is the same - future investors outsized profits of early investors; and so-called profits are paid from new investment dollars rather than legitimate income from the advertised business activity - e.g., supposed mining):

RED FLAGS (From the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission reference below).  NOTE that hashlets meet EVERY SINGLE red flag listed by the SEC...

What are some Ponzi scheme "red flags"?
Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:

1.  High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity.

2.  Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions.  [CHECK - Zenpool's ability to outperform even the most seasons alt-coin and multipools and never have a "bad day" is more than remarkable]

3.  Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances. [CHECK - a whole different issue, but since GAW has admitted the hashlet is an investment in mining that is only **related** to actual pool mining, but "may" not actually be mining, the zenpool is at best an investment in a security and there has been no registration statement or even attempt to provide risk disclosures required for securities]

4.  Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms.  [CHECK]

5.  Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb.
Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised. [CHECK++++]

6.  Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over.  [CHECK - not especially the hashpoint and autoreinvest to discourage withdrawals, but also repeated "software" problems with withdrawals that often make it impossible to withdraw for lenghty periods]


FURTHER READING:
http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/telltale-signs-pyramid-scheme
http://www.forbes.com/sites/investopedia/2014/03/18/what-is-a-pyramid-scheme/
http://www.sec.gov/answers/pyramid.htm
http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Historical perspective:
http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1866680,00.html

Before replying and telling me how much ROI you are going to make, please read the above.  I have plenty of ROI on hashlets already assuming I can get out as promised, but that doesn't mean its not a Ponzi (I ROI'd on PB Mining too, but same issue applies to them and it looks likely they are nearing the collapse/tipping point soon).

Again, to GAW, if you are legitimate, all you need to do is post your mining addresses showing mining of actual coins (at least for the top 3-4 coins you are mining on zenpool) to prove mining activity in rough proportion to hashlet claimed hash power.  I had great hopes that hashlets were something truly new and exciting, but the longer this goes on without disclosure of even basic facts like mining addresses, the more concerned I have become.

Regards,

8cyl

You are not eightcylinders.... YOU MY FRIEND ARE TWELVECYLINDERS ON TURBO. This is the best post on not only on this thread but the whole forum. Most greedy people will not care as long as they make a buck and that is a fact. Thank you very much for all the information and links on your post!!!!!!

[suchmoon]

If you look at erics linkedin profile he has the chops to handle what they are doing. My bet is they are growing too fast and attempting to do too much at once. It also doesn't help that people are buying tons of hashlets and probably leaving them as singles which adds to the db and increases the time needed to process payouts.

Sounds contradictory. How did they get into this mess if he has the "chops" ?  Overnight account-system changes aren't SOP for "chops" either.

Also, if he had the "chops", he would've known how to build a scaling system from the start, or at least catch it before it got this bad.

I think I'm still calling it. Another late #payoutwatch day.

And how about those security issues alluded to in the announcement yesterday. I hope they just dumbed it down for PR, but it sounded like the solution was to reduce the session timeout. I don't see how that fixes anything, because it looked like it was allowing access to accounts without validating the session/auth cookie on the server side. Either way it doesn't speak well for their development and QA practices not to mention deposit security (#6 in the OP).

[deebosch]

If you look at erics linkedin profile he has the chops to handle what they are doing. My bet is they are growing too fast and attempting to do too much at once. It also doesn't help that people are buying tons of hashlets and probably leaving them as singles which adds to the db and increases the time needed to process payouts.

Sounds contradictory. How did they get into this mess if he has the "chops" ?  Overnight account-system changes aren't SOP for "chops" either.

Also, if he had the "chops", he would've known how to build a scaling system from the start, or at least catch it before it got this bad.

I think I'm still calling it. Another late #payoutwatch day.

And how about those security issues alluded to in the announcement yesterday. I hope they just dumbed it down for PR, but it sounded like the solution was to reduce the session timeout. I don't see how that fixes anything, because it looked like it was allowing access to accounts without validating the session/auth cookie on the server side. Either way it doesn't speak well for their development and QA practices not to mention deposit security (#6 in the OP).

For such scale of a project, let alone mining project, to not have a bitcoind implementation from the very beginning says a lot about their security standards, imho. Or i should say "mining" project.

[damiano]

I purchased quite a bit in the beginning (when hashlets were first announced)  Ive since then sold off the free hashlets and some of the primes so Im in the green.  Question is do I ride this with the rest or should I just sell.  I agree with the mining addresses which shouldn't be that difficult to produce...

[MOB]

Here we go.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/6966/state-of-zencloud-address

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v-h5HxA-NYDvX8Cbf0Do4a6zZ1BzRXo8xUqCVLbe0ow/edit?usp=sharing

Code:

State of ZenCloud Address

THAT is alot of announcements to roll out at 1 time. so when it says no more 13 hour pay outs i wonder if it means they will provide real time rewards. Just like cex.io does when a block is found or does it mean something else?

Are you kidding?  GAW does not generate a significant percentage of the Zenpool payouts from mining.  This was first proven in this thread, then confirmed in an email Q&A with Josh.

I assume Josh means that they will attempt to pay all users at 6AM (or whatever designated time) rather than a rolling process that extremely unpredictable, other than knowing it will be late.

Good to see the bug I reported in that address ;p  Wonder if I was the first though =/

[NuShrike]

And how about those security issues alluded to in the announcement yesterday. I hope they just dumbed it down for PR, but it sounded like the solution was to reduce the session timeout. I don't see how that fixes anything, because it looked like it was allowing access to accounts without validating the session/auth cookie on the server side. Either way it doesn't speak well for their development and QA practices not to mention deposit security (#6 in the OP).

Agreed. It should've involved more than just session-timeouts. Changing IP should've broken the trust-chain as well as a number of other factors.  Transferring ownership should've reset "all" session-cookies ...

Best practices -- they're all out there, but greed prevents the necessary on-going research.

[bitgeek]

Looks like the trolls came back for the daily dose of shit talk. Don't forget to call FBI

[MOB]

And how about those security issues alluded to in the announcement yesterday. I hope they just dumbed it down for PR, but it sounded like the solution was to reduce the session timeout. I don't see how that fixes anything, because it looked like it was allowing access to accounts without validating the session/auth cookie on the server side. Either way it doesn't speak well for their development and QA practices not to mention deposit security (#6 in the OP).

Agreed. It should've involved more than just session-timeouts. Changing IP should've broken the trust-chain as well as a number of other factors.  Transferring ownership should've reset "all" session-cookies ...

Best practices -- they're all out there, but greed prevents the necessary on-going research.

They fixed something.  I just tried to log into my buyer's account and can no longer do so.

Now he no longer gets me boosting his hashlets from a different time zone!