GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[eightcylinders]

So apparently some poor unfortunate sod got pwned by GAW's crappy hashmarket (despite warnings about this possibly happening some weeks ago) when the said individual inadvertently listed 901MHS prime's for sale (worth $45,000) @ $18 for the lot, that sold instantly..lol

Josh you suck...

Edit: They also still allow sellers to list @ 1mhs hashlet for sale for $10m. Just make sure you dont have $10m in your balance if you click one of these by mistake or its goodbye $10m LOL..

you got a link to the thread?

Here you go https://hashtalk.org/topic/11651/sold-901mh-zen-hashlets-for-18-on-hash-market

GAW are in a mess, absolute clusterfuck.

The only people that make real money are his early adopters/minions. If its not a ponzi its the next best thing.

Surely these hashlets are financial instruments wouldn't they be covered by financial regulation laws?

Yes, they are securities.  Offerings of securities in the United States require disclosure at both the state and local level.  There is a ton of case law from past scams mostly, where for example "shares" in profit from an orchard I think it was deemed securities.  Any investment where you get a return based on some allocation of profits from the seller of the note, hashlet, share, whatever, is a security.

The required regulations (which GAW is blatently ignoring) obligate GAW to provide financial risk disclosures, descriptions of its business, and all other "material" information about the investment and associated risks.  The U.S. has been pretty active in this area, and as GAW grows I am sure it will get the appropriate attention.

[suchmoon]

It seems the post got deleted. You werent quick enough? Mod's on the forum are quick to delete.

It's there just scroll a bit. The forum keep hiding "far away" posts until you scroll near them.

Those were Zens not Primes($17k retail vs $45k). Don't get me wrong, it sucks none the less. But 901 Zens is much better than primes.

Well, the guy admittedly sold them based on their name and wasn't looking at the numbers. With that amount I would have double and triple checked the numbers. It's pretty much the same as if he was sending BTC to the wrong wallet so it is his fault regardless of how much of a mess is the market.

True to that.
Maybe there should be a safety, protecting customers from selling dirt cheap, but everyone is responsible for their action, so it's his mistake not GAW's.

So what's your opinion on GAW's mistake where they sent out 25 MH/s codes instead of 1 or 5 MH/s? Should they be held responsible for their actions, or is it ok to take back the 25 MH/s from the buyer? Or even from a third-party buyer if the original buyer resold it?

[eightcylinders]

If I were one of those buyers, I would be getting lawyered up and getting subpeonas out to trace the accounts of the **sellers** and get access to the true facts about how this "mistake" was made, before the evidence disappears.  It is extraordinarily unlikely that the events above transpired in the way GAW has said.  

What's that famous saying - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" ?

I think it is likely that there was a technical/human error with the activation codes, and we've seen plenty of errors of all kinds in ZenCloud so no big leap of faith needed here. The explanation, the fix, the aftermath - that's where it's getting harder and harder to suspend disbelief.

But as far as conspiracies go - wouldn't it be great if it turned out that one of the resellers/moderators was involved  . I wonder how much control does a reseller have in issuing those codes.

I don't think it could possibly have been human error, unless GAW is run by folks who have almost no background in computer technology and are horribly inefficient business managers to boot (which would be surprising).

The premise that human beings could be involved in generating the hashlet activation codes seems to me to be extremely suspicious and unlikely.  Imagine, every order would require a human being to enter hashlet type, size, and possibly customer or reseller information and then press a button?  Given the number of hashlets that are sold (according to GAW) they would need a an army or an outsourcing service center in India to process that many orders with a human being involved.  And why would they use human beings when you already have to have a computer server to generate the activation codes (which are typically encryption signed records using some form of 2 key authentication), and you have computer servers on the customer/reseller end processing payment and orders?  A human being in the middle of two computerized systems (order processing and activation code generation) is an obvious bottleneck that would be eliminated after the first thousand orders caused that person to go insane.

Unless you believe that GAW is both grossly incompetent and incredibly technology illiterate (especially as related to encryption technology that is at the core of hashing!!), the likelihood that a human being is involved in generating hash codes is just crazy.  My conspiracy theory seems a lot more likely.

But without a cogent explanation from GAW that is not loaded with nonsense and marketing speak, we will not know the truth until someone decides to go to court with all this.

[CoffeeCat]

So apparently some poor unfortunate sod got pwned by GAW's crappy hashmarket (despite warnings about this possibly happening some weeks ago) when the said individual inadvertently listed 901MHS prime's for sale (worth $45,000) @ $18 for the lot, that sold instantly..lol

Josh you suck...

Edit: They also still allow sellers to list @ 1mhs hashlet for sale for $10m. Just make sure you dont have $10m in your balance if you click one of these by mistake or its goodbye $10m LOL..

you got a link to the thread?

Here you go https://hashtalk.org/topic/11651/sold-901mh-zen-hashlets-for-18-on-hash-market

GAW are in a mess, absolute clusterfuck.

The only people that make real money are his early adopters/minions. If its not a ponzi its the next best thing.

Surely these hashlets are financial instruments wouldn't they be covered by financial regulation laws?

I had to ask if anyone knew what an S-1 was:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/11982/for-those-investing-in-primes-do-you-know-what-an-s-1-is

[eightcylinders]

I had to ask if anyone knew what an S-1 was:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/11982/for-those-investing-in-primes-do-you-know-what-an-s-1-is

I will probably get shadowbanned for my contribution to that thread.  I am sure I will get enough downvotes from GAW's reseller buds to kill my hashpoint account but then I don't really care.

Do you know the technical name for a reseller if the SEC deems these hashlets to be securities? 

How about "accomplice" or "cell mate"?

[suchmoon]

While they're fixing these incorrect hashlets, might it be too much to be asked to also fix my missing 250 Gh/s Genesis hashlet? 

Don't get greedy now. According to Hashtalk, it is good for all customers if GAW protects its profits by all means necessary, e.g. clawing back sales errors, etc. Still with me here? So your missing hashlet is also good for everyone, because it increases GAW profits by not having to pay you daily for the 250 GH/s. On behalf of all GAW customers I thank you for your generous donation.

Oh, almost forgot:  

[bitgeek]

It seems the post got deleted. You werent quick enough? Mod's on the forum are quick to delete.

It's there just scroll a bit. The forum keep hiding "far away" posts until you scroll near them.

Those were Zens not Primes($17k retail vs $45k). Don't get me wrong, it sucks none the less. But 901 Zens is much better than primes.

Well, the guy admittedly sold them based on their name and wasn't looking at the numbers. With that amount I would have double and triple checked the numbers. It's pretty much the same as if he was sending BTC to the wrong wallet so it is his fault regardless of how much of a mess is the market.

True to that.
Maybe there should be a safety, protecting customers from selling dirt cheap, but everyone is responsible for their action, so it's his mistake not GAW's.

But GAW is of course by no means responsible for sending out the wrong Hashlet codes. It's the fault of the dirty thieves that caused ZenCloud to shut down for 12 hours so GAW could take everything back. Let's set up a donation fund to thank GAW for all their hard work. Remember, ALL software is just as buggy as Zencloud. /s

Great, let's all make new accounts to flame GAW now! It's going to look so real!

[suchmoon]

I had to ask if anyone knew what an S-1 was:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/11982/for-those-investing-in-primes-do-you-know-what-an-s-1-is

I will probably get shadowbanned for my contribution to that thread.  I am sure I will get enough downvotes from GAW's reseller buds to kill my hashpoint account but then I don't really care.

Do you know the technical name for a reseller if the SEC deems these hashlets to be securities? 

How about "accomplice" or "cell mate"?

Speaking of bans, surprisingly they are showing who's banned under the username now (real ones I guess, not the shadow bans). Still don't make a lot of sense, maybe some posts were deleted or something... like these for example:

https://hashtalk.org/user/yak
https://hashtalk.org/user/deadace
https://hashtalk.org/user/acamp22

Can't find anything offensive even by the very strict "respect" standards.

So yeah, you two guys are walking a very fine line there. Probably way over the line actually.

[alienesb]

Yak was keeping the pressure on them to just admit it wasn't an exploit, it was just them fucking up the codes. Guess they didn't like that.

[dekodoge]

oops looks like i got the conversation going with my post.

BT Hashtalk its good to talk.

[cma3]

I had to ask if anyone knew what an S-1 was:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/11982/for-those-investing-in-primes-do-you-know-what-an-s-1-is

I will probably get shadowbanned for my contribution to that thread.  I am sure I will get enough downvotes from GAW's reseller buds to kill my hashpoint account but then I don't really care.

Do you know the technical name for a reseller if the SEC deems these hashlets to be securities?  

How about "accomplice" or "cell mate"?

I doubt that GAW could even entertain a 'real' IPO even if they wanted to. The IPO here is one of two things: an IPO on Medici or simply an IPO Coin.

The whole "every online store will use it" (im loosely quoting here)  thing is 'interesting'?

[corsaro]

are you able to withdraw BTC from https://cloud.zenminer.com/balance ??

[eightcylinders]

If you are unable to withdraw, just keep trying.  I started to sell off some of my solos now, just to get out completely before the collapse I have predicted... It took me 12 hours and a dozen tries but I just cleared out another $3k on top of the $15K I cleared out before the whole freeze thing started.  Either the software is just buggy as hell, or else (more likely IMHO) GAW cannot allow you to withdraw coins it doesn't have.

[corsaro]

If you are unable to withdraw, just keep trying.  I started to sell off some of my solos now, just to get out completely before the collapse I have predicted... It took me 12 hours and a dozen tries but I just cleared out another $3k on top of the $15K I cleared out before the whole freeze thing started.  Either the software is just buggy as hell, or else (more likely IMHO) GAW cannot allow you to withdraw coins it doesn't have.

I tried a lot of times to withdraw BTC but always same error...
Unable to process transaction at this time

[eightcylinders]

If you are unable to withdraw, just keep trying.  I started to sell off some of my solos now, just to get out completely before the collapse I have predicted... It took me 12 hours and a dozen tries but I just cleared out another $3k on top of the $15K I cleared out before the whole freeze thing started.  Either the software is just buggy as hell, or else (more likely IMHO) GAW cannot allow you to withdraw coins it doesn't have.

I tried a lot of times to withdraw BTC but always same error...
Unable to process transaction at this time

I had the same error a dozen times over 12 hours.  I tried every hour except when sleeping and it finally went through on my last try.  If you believe GAW just has bugs, then file a support request and post in the support thread.  If you believe that GAW lacks the coins to payout what is in is customers accounts, then support requests will be useless, you will just need to get lucky and wait until GAW has accumulted more coins from miner sales and whatever else it is doing to be able to pay you out.  In the latter case, perseverance, timing and luck are required.

Also, again on the assumption that the issue is lack of sufficient coins to allow withdrawals as opposed to a software bug, you can try taking out smaller amounts too.  You may not be able to get 15 BTC out but 1 BTC might work for example.  Of course if its a software bug/issue, reducing the amount won't help you.  I can only tell you that I got my BTC out after great effort and many attempts, using different amounts of withdrawal (e..g, not always emptying the account). 

Another thing I experimented with successfully was buying on the market before withdrawing.  Buy a few solos cheap, then try withdrawals again.  That seemed to work though it maybe a coincidence.  The hypothesis behind this strategy is rather cyncical, but it is based on a hypothesis (unproven) that GAW wants to keep its active customers happy, but is willing to stiff its customers who are exiting.  One way to do that would be to prioritize withdrawals from customers who recently purchased miners.  Again this is purely a hypothesis, but it has worked a couple of times for me and can't hurt to try it.

[corsaro]

If you are unable to withdraw, just keep trying.  I started to sell off some of my solos now, just to get out completely before the collapse I have predicted... It took me 12 hours and a dozen tries but I just cleared out another $3k on top of the $15K I cleared out before the whole freeze thing started.  Either the software is just buggy as hell, or else (more likely IMHO) GAW cannot allow you to withdraw coins it doesn't have.

I tried a lot of times to withdraw BTC but always same error...
Unable to process transaction at this time

I had the same error a dozen times over 12 hours.  I tried every hour except when sleeping and it finally went through on my last try.  If you believe GAW just has bugs, then file a support request and post in the support thread.  If you believe that GAW lacks the coins to payout what is in is customers accounts, then support requests will be useless, you will just need to get lucky and wait until GAW has accumulted more coins from miner sales and whatever else it is doing to be able to pay you out.  In the latter case, perseverance, timing and luck are required.

Also, again on the assumption that the issue is lack of sufficient coins to allow withdrawals as opposed to a software bug, you can try taking out smaller amounts too.  You may not be able to get 15 BTC out but 1 BTC might work for example.  Of course if its a software bug/issue, reducing the amount won't help you.  I can only tell you that I got my BTC out after great effort and many attempts, using different amounts of withdrawal (e..g, not always emptying the account). 

Another thing I experimented with successfully was buying on the market before withdrawing.  Buy a few solos cheap, then try withdrawals again.  That seemed to work though it maybe a coincidence.  The hypothesis behind this strategy is rather cyncical, but it is based on a hypothesis (unproven) that GAW wants to keep its active customers happy, but is willing to stiff its customers who are exiting.  One way to do that would be to prioritize withdrawals from customers who recently purchased miners.  Again this is purely a hypothesis, but it has worked a couple of times for me and can't hurt to try it.

Ok, I'll keep the forum updated...  I'll try and try again

[corsaro]

If you are unable to withdraw, just keep trying.  I started to sell off some of my solos now, just to get out completely before the collapse I have predicted... It took me 12 hours and a dozen tries but I just cleared out another $3k on top of the $15K I cleared out before the whole freeze thing started.  Either the software is just buggy as hell, or else (more likely IMHO) GAW cannot allow you to withdraw coins it doesn't have.

I tried a lot of times to withdraw BTC but always same error...
Unable to process transaction at this time

I had the same error a dozen times over 12 hours.  I tried every hour except when sleeping and it finally went through on my last try.  If you believe GAW just has bugs, then file a support request and post in the support thread.  If you believe that GAW lacks the coins to payout what is in is customers accounts, then support requests will be useless, you will just need to get lucky and wait until GAW has accumulted more coins from miner sales and whatever else it is doing to be able to pay you out.  In the latter case, perseverance, timing and luck are required.

Also, again on the assumption that the issue is lack of sufficient coins to allow withdrawals as opposed to a software bug, you can try taking out smaller amounts too.  You may not be able to get 15 BTC out but 1 BTC might work for example.  Of course if its a software bug/issue, reducing the amount won't help you.  I can only tell you that I got my BTC out after great effort and many attempts, using different amounts of withdrawal (e..g, not always emptying the account). 

Another thing I experimented with successfully was buying on the market before withdrawing.  Buy a few solos cheap, then try withdrawals again.  That seemed to work though it maybe a coincidence.  The hypothesis behind this strategy is rather cyncical, but it is based on a hypothesis (unproven) that GAW wants to keep its active customers happy, but is willing to stiff its customers who are exiting.  One way to do that would be to prioritize withdrawals from customers who recently purchased miners.  Again this is purely a hypothesis, but it has worked a couple of times for me and can't hurt to try it.

I tried again a couple of times..  and finally I got success

[dekodoge]

my post on the 5X magic priced financial instruments, quoted below just in case it vanishes.

@GAW_CEO

This is how i see it.

in the past some online retailers have mispriced items for sale say “40inch TV for” $4.99 instead of $499 people have purchased them and had them delivered if the money was taken at time of purchase as a contract now exists and they should honor it.

Sometimes they they can work round ( and not ship to you/cancel sale ) buy not taking money until item was shipped so no contract of sale exists.

my Question to you @GAW_CEO When people purchase these items was the money already taken and in the sellers account?

If so a contract of sale was created and the buyers have rights, they owned those items and are free to dispose of them.

You cant take this money back, its your mistake and GAW should wear the costs.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/11850/here-is-what-happened-the-last-12-hours/654

Thread locked, i'm surprised it stayed open for as long as it did.

[Arthur38]

Seriously this things is getting worse and worse. GAWminers take bad decisions, lock threads when they can't control it, ban people for no acceptable reasons but still, still there are groupies to "thank" him. And seriously I really hope that the thread about donation to GAW was a joke...

Don't know really what to think. Should I run away from Zencloud ?

Do we have the confirmation that they are really mining ? I really wonder why they don't want to speak about how much GHs/Mhs they got. Any idea ?

[CoffeeCat]

I just got banned from Hashtalk too! I guess for asking questions about securities.