Bitcoin Forum
December 09, 2018, 11:01:03 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.17.0 [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 [220] 221 222 223 »
  Print  
Author Topic: GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)  (Read 261590 times)
bitcoinnoisseur
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504
Merit: 500



View Profile
November 12, 2014, 08:19:07 PM
 #4381

Barry Silbert @barrysilbert
 I'm participating in "Bitcoin: Beyond the Currency" at @Bloomberg's NYC HQ on Nov 17th

Request an invite via info@bitcointrust.co


I wonder if Josh was invited. He did say he was meeting with the Media in NYC this week didn't he?
PLAY NOW
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1544396463
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1544396463

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1544396463
Reply with quote  #2

1544396463
Report to moderator
cryptofunk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 372
Merit: 250


View Profile
November 12, 2014, 08:23:23 PM
 #4382

The fact is BTC is up almost $100 in the past week, so how much has GAWS cost its customers by diverting their BTC miners to this new "plan"?

I hate to point out the obvious... but GAWS has cost people alot of money, who paid for a certain mining service.  

I can't say that I agree with you in this case... if GAW customers want to mine the ZenPool or any other pool they are free to do so, almost everybody switched to HP but had they stayed on something that yields BTC they may have benefited from that increase in some way.  If we say for sake of conversation that someone's maintenance was BTC0.03 at $300 it would be BTC0.0225 at $400 and it may make sense to mine towards BTC at this point.  The user gets to chose if they want to mine HP or not.

I know there is more to this than my previous statement but all the BTC pools are still there to use, users can still sell for decent money and they made the conscious decision to switch to HP themselves.  Many will argue that it was the only decision that made sense (to switch) but the bottom line remains that at some point users have to take part of the blame, they signed up (myself included) for an $0.08 maintenance fee and payouts tied to pool returns, difficulty and BTC prices did the rest. We can debate everything that happened and led to this (Zenpool and everything else) but at some point users have to take some responsibility for their actions / decisions.

So for this specific comment I can't say that I agree with you, if I decide to mine HP for a week and BTC skyrockets I have only myself to blame.
ajw7989
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 1000


View Profile
November 12, 2014, 08:52:19 PM
 #4383

The fact is BTC is up almost $100 in the past week, so how much has GAWS cost its customers by diverting their BTC miners to this new "plan"?

I hate to point out the obvious... but GAWS has cost people alot of money, who paid for a certain mining service.  

I can't say that I agree with you in this case... if GAW customers want to mine the ZenPool or any other pool they are free to do so, almost everybody switched to HP but had they stayed on something that yields BTC they may have benefited from that increase in some way.  If we say for sake of conversation that someone's maintenance was BTC0.03 at $300 it would be BTC0.0225 at $400 and it may make sense to mine towards BTC at this point.  The user gets to chose if they want to mine HP or not.

I know there is more to this than my previous statement but all the BTC pools are still there to use, users can still sell for decent money and they made the conscious decision to switch to HP themselves.  Many will argue that it was the only decision that made sense (to switch) but the bottom line remains that at some point users have to take part of the blame, they signed up (myself included) for an $0.08 maintenance fee and payouts tied to pool returns, difficulty and BTC prices did the rest. We can debate everything that happened and led to this (Zenpool and everything else) but at some point users have to take some responsibility for their actions / decisions.

So for this specific comment I can't say that I agree with you, if I decide to mine HP for a week and BTC skyrockets I have only myself to blame.

Keep in mind although customers have part to blame its hard for the customers not to have mined HP with all the propaganda and advertisement GAW is selling about hashpoints and there worth as well as them severely crippling zenpool (seriously they said they would renegotiate the rates but how long do these negotiations actually take if they put a decent effort into it). Zenpool might not have those crazy high payouts it once did but it definitely should be the top pool compared to the others.
cryptofunk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 372
Merit: 250


View Profile
November 12, 2014, 09:16:44 PM
 #4384

Keep in mind although customers have part to blame its hard for the customers not to have mined HP with all the propaganda and advertisement GAW is selling about hashpoints and there worth as well as them severely crippling zenpool (seriously they said they would renegotiate the rates but how long do these negotiations actually take if they put a decent effort into it). Zenpool might not have those crazy high payouts it once did but it definitely should be the top pool compared to the others.

Not tying to say that everything is the customers fault but if there is only two things that prime customers gets to control in this whole system it would be the pool they chose to mine and at what point they want to sell if they chose to, almost everything else is out of their control.  Someone who follow this thread made an informed decision as far as I'm concerned.

If someone decides to mine HP to get HC later they have to live with their decision, the opposite is also true.  I sold out and may have lost out if HC has a great start but I'm fine with that.

I agree with the rest.
MOB
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 487
Merit: 500


View Profile
November 12, 2014, 10:15:12 PM
 #4385

I have been reading a book on the history of public finance over the last 3,000 years (A free nation deep in debt) and I must admit that josh has done a brilliant job in taking out short term high interest loans, which have been increasing parleyed into long-term low interest loans through his slashing of interest rates (zenpool), 10% surcharge on the market value of each traded loan (via the marketplace), and now our present state of complete deferment of interest by using hashcoins.

All coupled with a 33% debasement of the currency in which the loans will always be repaid (btc was above 600 when this started).

GAW must be quite heavily in the black due to these time honored financial double-dealings that have for so long characterized sovereign borrowing. If events continue in this fashion, then GAW will soon have the majority of its debt converted into its own sovereign currency which it can then debase to the point that all will be "repaid," but in worthless hashcoins. They will have a tremendous financial incentive to do so.

Remember the well-reasoned hashtalk post worried than HC's need for 10 million USD/day was too high? Well, if he is correct in his mathematical analysis then it is hardly a flaw, but in GAW's best interest to keep their absurdly high level of coin generation at launch mixed with impossible market cap--it will make the fall all the swifter and GAW's profits all the greater as they pay off the remainder of their debts. No doubt there will be another buy back offer after the fiasco, but at below face value again.

Sorry for the wandering post, but anyone interested in financial history should read this book. It has intriguing arguments regarding decentralization, democratization, and public debt.
Stargazer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 389
Merit: 250


Look ARROUND!


View Profile
November 12, 2014, 10:16:29 PM
 #4386

This came up on my twitter today:
https://twitter.com/gawceo/status/532652698051821569

I'm sure he won't be bored, you know what I mean Wink
I wouldn't be.

Went to coinwarz today to check something and they have a nice hashcoin background. Much wow.


.........................................
             █████████████████
         ███ ██     █     ██ ███
       ██ █████     █     █████ ██
     ███   █   █  █████  █   █   ███
   ███     █    ███ █ ███    █     ███
  ██  ███ ██ ███    █    ███ ██ ███  ██
  ██     ████       █      █████     ██
 ███   ██ █  ███    █    ███  █ ██   ███
 █ █ ██   █     ██  █  ██     █   ██ █ █
█████     █       █████       █     █████
 █ █ ██   █   ████  █  ████   █   ██ █ █
 ███   ████ ██      █      ██ ████   ███
  ██  █  █████      █      █████  █  ██
  ██ ██   ██ ████   █  ████  ██   ██ ██
   ██      █     ██████      █     ███
     ████  █   ██████████    █  ████
       ██ █████     █    ██████ ██
         ███  ██    █   ███  ███
            █████████████████
ARROUND









.









.
Telegram
ANN Thread
Bounty Thread
Whitepaper

Hero/Legendary:
suchmoon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792
Merit: 2054


poor and pathetic mr self important high horseman


View Profile
November 12, 2014, 10:30:49 PM
 #4387

... some elaborate scheme ... good job Smiley

I might agree if it was any other company, but I have some doubts that such complex financial moves are within GAW's capabilities. I guess we'll see within the next couple of weeks how far does it actually go.


This came up on my twitter today:
https://twitter.com/gawceo/status/532652698051821569

I'm sure he won't be bored, you know what I mean Wink
I wouldn't be.

Save your innuendos for HT, this is a family-friendly forum  Grin

Flep182
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 798
Merit: 1000


View Profile
November 12, 2014, 10:33:33 PM
 #4388

Something I'm missing in ZenCloud btw (just thought of this) is an option to add an order for something at a certain low price. There is only a sellers market.

I'd be willing to scoop up 100 Gh/s Genesis for 3USD per 10 if someone is offering for example. Now price is dictated by the lowest price that hasn't sold yet.

jimmothy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770
Merit: 500



View Profile
November 12, 2014, 10:35:04 PM
 #4389


Something doesn't quite add up.

$12m worth of hashlets at $15/mh is 800 GH/s.

By "producing $8m of profit" I assume they are basing that on the increase in $/mh. Since vaultbreakers were sold at ~$10/mh and could be sold for up to $50/mh that makes a max profit of $40/mh. $8m profit at $40/mh is another 200 GH/s worth of primes.

800 GH/s + 200 GH/s = 1000 GH/s.

On October 2nd the entire litecoin network was 1036 GH/s so I suppose only ~36 GH/s is not controlled by GAW.

This doesn't even take in to consideration boosts, double pool mining, red rockets, and whatever magically made their pool payout more than any other litecoin pool.

The reason it doesn't add up is that you are assuming that they mine scrypt.

It does say "$12M in sales within weeks of release."

Genesis hashlet was released 3 weeks after launch, would you consider that "within weeks"?

Even if ~10-20% of sales went to genesis hashlets I don't think their claims would be any less ridiculous.
KC6TTR
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 255


View Profile
November 12, 2014, 10:53:19 PM
 #4390


Haa.. It's interesting how he uses a webinar others <cough> have been promoting for almost a week to support Ms. Boring's mainstream endeavors as something he may have anything to do with. Oh well, hopefully he learned something IF he actually watched it.
KC6TTR
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 255


View Profile
November 12, 2014, 10:59:49 PM
 #4391

I have been reading a book on the history of public finance over the last 3,000 years (A free nation deep in debt) and I must admit that josh has done a brilliant job in taking out short term high interest loans, which have been increasing parleyed into long-term low interest loans through his slashing of interest rates (zenpool), 10% surcharge on the market value of each traded loan (via the marketplace), and now our present state of complete deferment of interest by using hashcoins.

All coupled with a 33% debasement of the currency in which the loans will always be repaid (btc was above 600 when this started).

GAW must be quite heavily in the black due to these time honored financial double-dealings that have for so long characterized sovereign borrowing. If events continue in this fashion, then GAW will soon have the majority of its debt converted into its own sovereign currency which it can then debase to the point that all will be "repaid," but in worthless hashcoins. They will have a tremendous financial incentive to do so.

Remember the well-reasoned hashtalk post worried than HC's need for 10 million USD/day was too high? Well, if he is correct in his mathematical analysis then it is hardly a flaw, but in GAW's best interest to keep their absurdly high level of coin generation at launch mixed with impossible market cap--it will make the fall all the swifter and GAW's profits all the greater as they pay off the remainder of their debts. No doubt there will be another buy back offer after the fiasco, but at below face value again.

Sorry for the wandering post, but anyone interested in financial history should read this book. It has intriguing arguments regarding decentralization, democratization, and public debt.

@jimmothy  +1

@MOB - Excellent book and insight - although I believe the high-interest loans were immediately parleyed from the beginning in to long-term deferred interest transactions. Why? Because GAW/Zen effectively has 100% control over the terms of every transaction and we all know - whomever has control over the terms has control over the $$.

Scott-
suchmoon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792
Merit: 2054


poor and pathetic mr self important high horseman


View Profile
November 12, 2014, 11:26:10 PM
 #4392

You must have missed the nice conversation about one of the speakers we had few days back.

You must have missed my :grinning: face ->  Grin

mutha
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 440
Merit: 250


AS8UDRR8Dc4wTyZkMT7Z5vaXtiWK9zh5Hb


View Profile
November 13, 2014, 12:52:33 AM
 #4393

The fact is BTC is up almost $100 in the past week, so how much has GAWS cost its customers by diverting their BTC miners to this new "plan"?

I hate to point out the obvious... but GAWS has cost people alot of money, who paid for a certain mining service.  

I can't say that I agree with you in this case... if GAW customers want to mine the ZenPool or any other pool they are free to do so, almost everybody switched to HP but had they stayed on something that yields BTC they may have benefited from that increase in some way.  If we say for sake of conversation that someone's maintenance was BTC0.03 at $300 it would be BTC0.0225 at $400 and it may make sense to mine towards BTC at this point.  The user gets to chose if they want to mine HP or not.

I know there is more to this than my previous statement but all the BTC pools are still there to use, users can still sell for decent money and they made the conscious decision to switch to HP themselves.  Many will argue that it was the only decision that made sense (to switch) but the bottom line remains that at some point users have to take part of the blame, they signed up (myself included) for an $0.08 maintenance fee and payouts tied to pool returns, difficulty and BTC prices did the rest. We can debate everything that happened and led to this (Zenpool and everything else) but at some point users have to take some responsibility for their actions / decisions.

So for this specific comment I can't say that I agree with you, if I decide to mine HP for a week and BTC skyrockets I have only myself to blame.

Keep in mind although customers have part to blame its hard for the customers not to have mined HP with all the propaganda and advertisement GAW is selling about hashpoints and there worth as well as them severely crippling zenpool (seriously they said they would renegotiate the rates but how long do these negotiations actually take if they put a decent effort into it). Zenpool might not have those crazy high payouts it once did but it definitely should be the top pool compared to the others.

Well raising the "maitenance" rates to 80 or more percent to mine BTC was a motivating factor, then the "mine their HashCoin" was a bit of a bait and switch. I do mine other coins and they are of my choosing, not because I am being forced to. I thought about it and choose to sell my miners and apply the funds on a legit cloud mining service rather than being forced to mine this hash coin.  I am out of GAWS and ZEN and got some bargain BTC miners to replace the GAW/ZEN.... when BTC was around $325, I didnt loose much. But still I cannot under stand why people are wasting their time and money messing with the Hash Coin uncertainty when they could have been mining BTC and banking profits before the run up.

BTW at the moment GAWS is no where near the best cloud miners.... I do not deal with any that charge more than 50% maitenance. 
Honeycutt22
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 250


View Profile
November 13, 2014, 01:00:56 AM
 #4394

Yea I think it's commonly known that their mining performance pretty much sucks. The only sell they have is if hash coin works. And given their unreliable history with other technical efforts I have my doubts.

I sold off enough to at least break even and invested elsewhere. So if it goes bottoms up no suprise and won't lose out a bunch.

People buying into it now have to be very foolish or the type that gets robed in pump n dumps.
KC6TTR
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 255


View Profile
November 13, 2014, 03:53:59 AM
 #4395

SoooOOOOoooo... has anyone received word on a viable resolution to at least the two most obvious bullet points below that have either not materialized or have been proven inaccurate? To clarify, this is from GAW/Zen's own product page (http://www.gawminers.com/pages/hashlet), which is still present and being marketed to potential customers at the time of this posting.



NeonTranceBadger
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 100


View Profile
November 13, 2014, 04:08:23 AM
 #4396

SoooOOOOoooo... has anyone received word on a viable resolution to at least the two most obvious bullet points below that have either not materialized or have been proven inaccurate? To clarify, this is from GAW/Zen's own product page (http://www.gawminers.com/pages/hashlet), which is still present and being marketed to potential customers at the time of this posting.





Are you talking about bullets 3 and 7?  Yes right now that is false advertisement, seeing that HashBit or whatever it's called is paying out higher than ZenPool and there has never been any depreciation on the maintenance cost for the Primes.
MOB
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 487
Merit: 500


View Profile
November 13, 2014, 04:49:05 AM
 #4397

I believe Josh's answers to those questions were:

1. Zenpool is the most profitable pool on average over the course of a month*

2. You haven't waited long enough


*He will be able to extend this claim all the way to "most profitable over an average of four months," so prepare for Zenpool to continue sucking for another 90 days.



Just need to point out: anyone who bought BTC instead of GAW crap in the last 30 days is now up more than 400 days of mining.
suchmoon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792
Merit: 2054


poor and pathetic mr self important high horseman


View Profile
November 13, 2014, 05:11:17 AM
 #4398

I believe Josh's answers to those questions were:

1. Zenpool is the most profitable pool on average over the course of a month*

2. You haven't waited long enough


*He will be able to extend this claim all the way to "most profitable over an average of four months," so prepare for Zenpool to continue sucking for another 90 days.

Even that might not be necessary. For example right now ZenPool is at the top again, but the rates overall are so abysmal compared to 22 HP per MH/s that it doesn't really make much of a difference. This might go on forever with a heavy incentive to mine HP/HC instead of BTC. HC just needs a long maturity period, or high interest rate, or some other disincentive/protection against dumping.

KC6TTR
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 255


View Profile
November 13, 2014, 05:45:58 AM
 #4399

Regardless, one can reasonably assume it is not what they say in their ads, it is what they leave up to you to discover and/or blindly accept after the fact, yes? If so, that's a sign of a real honest company right there - not.

It appears while just about every other cloud mining business is reducing fees (some multi-times in the previous 3 weeks) and earning customers' more revenue based on real world numbers, this single self-proclaimed industry changer has done nothing to reduce fees and/or resolve the pitiful "virtual" pool performances vs. high costs associated with investing in them. Oh well, at least they have their mythical coin that will be worth its weight in gold if/when released. Roll Eyes

- BUYER BEWARE -
tins
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 500


Fast, Smart, Trustworthy


View Profile
November 13, 2014, 05:50:22 AM
 #4400

Regardless, one can reasonably assume it is not what they say in their ads, it is what they leave up to you to discover and/or blindly accept after the fact, yes? If so, that's a sign of a real honest company right there - not.

It appears while just about every other cloud mining business is reducing fees (some multi-times in the previous 3 weeks) and earning customers' more revenue based on real world numbers, this single self-proclaimed industry changer has done nothing to reduce fees and/or resolve the pitiful "virtual" pool performances vs. high costs associated with investing in them. Oh well, at least they have their mythical coin that will be worth its weight in gold if/when released. Roll Eyes

- BUYER BEWARE -

Yes. This is the problem I'm having with them at the moment. They are basing the fees on dollar value ($0.08/mh scrypt), yet as BTC is gainging in value to the dollar, we are not seeing the fees dropping.
It does not make sense, as BTC has gained 30% on the dollar, fees should have gone down the same 30%.

FST Network   Fast, Smart, Trustworthy.   Bounty
Medium   Facebook   Twitter   Telegram
Pages: « 1 ... 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 [220] 221 222 223 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!