Scientific proof that God exists?

[bl4kjaguar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Christianity

So a messenger Paul was specially called to Promote the "right story" about Jesus/Emmanuel.
How convenient that this story forbids you to investigate any other perspective.

Actually modern scholarship on Paul's writings indicates that his doctrine is not always in harmony with the Gospels.

This is the exact reason for the Council of Nicea which weeded out a whole bunch of worse writings.

You can take anything and twist it so that it doesn't harmonize with something else. Yet, both the Gospels and the Letters of Paul are correct, in the context, and with the things that they are trying to express, even though they may not seem to harmonize to the thinking of some people.

This is the exact reason that there is no room for something like the Phoenix Chronicles or whatever you call them. There is even less harmony among them, and far less harmony when you try to harmonize them with the Bible. One doesn't need to read them to realize this. One only need realize that, generally speaking, it is this way with all complicated, complex, convoluted writings.

Well I for one will not accept an argument from authority; that is really all you have when your book does not even allow you to inquire into all things.

[BADecker]

We don't have the same sources for our beliefs and opinions.
Oh I get it. You have been reading the Phoenix Journals and they are driving you crazy.

Oh I get it, I am different in my belief so I must be crazy and my God is really the devil. Well that is exactly what you have said to me in this thread and it does not sound like civilized Christian behavior to me!

It is exactly good Christian behavior. Why? Because you adamantly refuse to accept the fact that you need a savior, and that the Savior is Jesus, the Christ of the Bible. Since you don't accept Him, you are going to Hell.

As a person who would like to have you as a Christian brother, I need to warn you firmly about the dangerous position you have placed yourself in. I can't do this with some wishy-washy, emotionally mish-mashy language. I need to warn you straight out, so that you see the danger, and change.

I have tried all the ways I know so far. So, if you don't change, it is on your own head, and it won't matter because you will be gone, anyway.

Well I for one will not accept an argument from authority; that is really all you have when your book does not even allow you to inquire into all things.

The Bible is the basic explanation of things. Nobody needs anything else.

[grendel25]

The essence of god is mysterious.  Science itself could be argued as proof of god or so could this staple lodged in my finger (don't ask).  It doesn't matter and it matter completely.  But really it's mind over matter.  If you don't mind, it don't matter.  And if it matters, be mindful.  

But really, even when science does prove any aspect of god there is still more to prove.  The "god" particle is a farce because more particles will be discovered.  Humans just always seek some sense of closure when the reality is infinite and unclosable.

So my best answer would be yes and no and maybe, perhaps, definitely and wait until tomorrow.

LOL !  Hope your finger is okay.

We still don't know for a fact that there isn't just one particle in the whole universe, and that's all there is. We don't know if it is this particle zooming throughout the dimensions at super-high speeds and in various ways, to actually form what looks and feels like all the rest of the particles and energies that exist in the universe. Someday we may know. But we don't know one way or the other for sure, yet.

Well I agree with your last sentence anyways!  We're only as good as our measuring equipment.  When they measure the Higgs Boson so called "god particle" it is naive to think that they have found the ultimate particle.  They will find more and more.

I don't think that Hawking dubbed the Higgs Boson the "god particle" because he thought it had anything to do with some kind of god or god attribute.

Yes. We will find more. And since we are only scratching the surface in examining the dimensions, we may find all kinds of things that are neither particle or wave.



EDIT: One of my big questions is: "Do we know for a fact that we are not creating some of these particles rather than simply finding them?"

Oh man... that would really screw things up if we're creating particles in a bubble without any understanding of what could happen with those particles.  We could be making our very own Big Bang.

[BADecker]

The essence of god is mysterious.  Science itself could be argued as proof of god or so could this staple lodged in my finger (don't ask).  It doesn't matter and it matter completely.  But really it's mind over matter.  If you don't mind, it don't matter.  And if it matters, be mindful.  

But really, even when science does prove any aspect of god there is still more to prove.  The "god" particle is a farce because more particles will be discovered.  Humans just always seek some sense of closure when the reality is infinite and unclosable.

So my best answer would be yes and no and maybe, perhaps, definitely and wait until tomorrow.

LOL !  Hope your finger is okay.

We still don't know for a fact that there isn't just one particle in the whole universe, and that's all there is. We don't know if it is this particle zooming throughout the dimensions at super-high speeds and in various ways, to actually form what looks and feels like all the rest of the particles and energies that exist in the universe. Someday we may know. But we don't know one way or the other for sure, yet.

Well I agree with your last sentence anyways!  We're only as good as our measuring equipment.  When they measure the Higgs Boson so called "god particle" it is naive to think that they have found the ultimate particle.  They will find more and more.

I don't think that Hawking dubbed the Higgs Boson the "god particle" because he thought it had anything to do with some kind of god or god attribute.

Yes. We will find more. And since we are only scratching the surface in examining the dimensions, we may find all kinds of things that are neither particle or wave.



EDIT: One of my big questions is: "Do we know for a fact that we are not creating some of these particles rather than simply finding them?"

Oh man... that would really screw things up if we're creating particles in a bubble without any understanding of what could happen with those particles.  We could be making our very own Big Bang.

Yes. There are a lot of energies bouncing around in the cyclotrons and colliders. How can we be sure that we are not creating particles rather than simply attracting them in or digging them out?

[misterycoins]

First, you have to get a really solid definition of what any individual person means by 'god'.

[BADecker]

First, you have to get a really solid definition of what any individual person means by 'god'.

You might want to do this if you are speaking about some very specific thing.

In the general scheme of things, all the machines that we have come from our observation and use of the machines in nature - the universe. So far, our machines are way behind the machines in nature in complexity and capability. Machines have makers. Whomever made the machines of the universe is way beyond us. Whomever or Whatever he or it is, he/it is way beyond us in intelligence and capability. This matches even the most general definitions of god/God.

[bl4kjaguar]

We don't have the same sources for our beliefs and opinions.
Oh I get it. You have been reading the Phoenix Journals and they are driving you crazy.

Oh I get it, I am different in my belief so I must be crazy and my God is really the devil. Well that is exactly what you have said to me in this thread and it does not sound like civilized Christian behavior to me!

It is exactly good Christian behavior. Why? Because you adamantly refuse to accept the fact that you need a savior, and that the Savior is Jesus, the Christ of the Bible. Since you don't accept Him, you are going to Hell.

As a person who would like to have you as a Christian brother, I need to warn you firmly about the dangerous position you have placed yourself in. I can't do this with some wishy-washy, emotionally mish-mashy language. I need to warn you straight out, so that you see the danger, and change.

I have tried all the ways I know so far. So, if you don't change, it is on your own head, and it won't matter because you will be gone, anyway.

Well I for one will not accept an argument from authority; that is really all you have when your book does not even allow you to inquire into all things.

The Bible is the basic explanation of things. Nobody needs anything else.

Just because your point of view involves a personal savior does not mean it is the right one. Like I mentioned, the entire account of Jesus and many cosmic mysteries simply make more sense in my opinion when one reads other important sources. I want to be well - read and open in my assessment of  Bible, so I read Hatonn... If you are more closed off as a result of his scribed messages, maybe you should ask yourself why... and why do you not love me as you love thyself... in a Christian truth?  Why is it that you judge? It is evil to judge when you know not.

You do not know that anyone needs a savior; it is impossible for soMeone to be lifted away into the clouds just because they have believed a certain concept.

[BADecker]

The Bible is the basic explanation of things. Nobody needs anything else.

Just because your point of view involves a personal savior does not mean it is the right one. Like I mentioned, the entire account of Jesus and many cosmic mysteries simply make more sense in my opinion when one reads other important sources. I want to be well - read and open in my assessment of  Bible, so I read Hatonn... If you are more closed off as a result of his scribed messages, maybe you should ask yourself why... and why do you not love me as you love thyself... in a Christian truth?  Why is it that you judge? It is evil to judge when you know not.

You do not know that anyone needs a savior; it is impossible for soMeone to be lifted away into the clouds just because they have believed a certain concept.

When you look at the complexity in nature, according to our understanding, nature and life are impossible to exist, according to any way that we can guess that they might have been brought into existence. Since they exist, however, why is it such a far fetch to believe that Someone can't lift Himself, or be lifted into the clouds like Jesus did/was?

The fact that you think that "it is impossible for soMeone to be lifted away into the clouds ..." means that you are not very well read, yet, or else that you are ignoring the possibilities shown by the things that you have read.

[fkvidar]

Of course, you cannot measure the probability of something existing somewhere in the universe. Unless you can do that, the whole proof is meaningless.

[the joint]

Of course, you cannot measure the probability of something existing somewhere in the universe. Unless you can do that, the whole proof is meaningless.

It's about time that someone else pointed out that empiricism cannot possibly comment one way or another about God.

[fkvidar]

But if God were only an idea, then would God exist?

[fkvidar]

If god exists, it is not subject to logic ( Scientific proof that God exists )  The only being capable of providing proof for or against the existence of an omnipotent being is an omnipotent being

[bl4kjaguar]

GOD IS AN ENERGY AND CHRIST IS THAT BEINGNESS OR PERFECTION OF GOD CREATOR. “CHRIST” IS NOT A NAME FOR ANYONE—IT IS A “STATE OF BEING OR ACTING WITHIN ‘CHRISTLY’ GUIDELINES”.
The next thing up from that fact is that you are a “created” entity within the energy flow of GOD CREATOR. This makes YOU a creating reflection or representation of experiencing GOD CREATOR. That accepted, you can go further and realize YOUR LIKENESS WITHIN/TO GOD. With that recognition, if taken seriously, you MUST then accept the responsibility that YOU are godly beings! That further means that human life IS OF SACRED IMPORTANCE. CHRISTNESS is LIFE. EVIL is DEATH. And thus, you have the split right down the middle of “ACTIONS”.

[the joint]

If god exists, it is not subject to logic ( Scientific proof that God exists )  The only being capable of providing proof for or against the existence of an omnipotent being is an omnipotent being

Incorrect.  If God exists, it *must* be subject to logic, else it could not exist (exists vs. doesn't exist is reducible to binary logic).

Edit:  Proof needn't be empirical (because it can't be).

[BADecker]

If god exists, it is not subject to logic ( Scientific proof that God exists )  The only being capable of providing proof for or against the existence of an omnipotent being is an omnipotent being

Incorrect.  If God exists, it *must* be subject to logic, else it could not exist (exists vs. doesn't exist is reducible to binary logic).

Edit:  Proof needn't be empirical (because it can't be).

Right.

For God to exist, He must be within this universe, at least in part. The part of Him that is within this universe must exist according to the logic of this universe. Since the term "universe" encompasses everything, for God to be outside of this universe (a condition that is incomprehensible to anything that exists), He also must be outside of the logic of it. But since we exist within the universe, such thinking (outside of the universe thinking) would be, not illogical, but unlogical, and not within the realm of our ability to comprehend.

[nikona]

Simple fact "GOD DOES NOT EXIST" I guess its time that everyone knows it.

[the joint]

Simple fact "GOD DOES NOT EXIST" I guess its time that everyone knows it.

Inasmuch as reality is provably a mental construct, intelligent design exists (and thus it is practical to say God exists).

[BADecker]

Simple fact "GOD DOES NOT EXIST" I guess its time that everyone knows it.

Quite the contrary. The term "God" might not be the best term for what He really is, and the designation "He" might be completely arbitrary, but science has shown that He definitely exists, whatever He is. Scientists show it all the time. They simply don't talk about it.

The link, below, has a reasonably concise description of how scientists show that God exists. If you don't want your faith in the idea of the absence of God to be shaken, don't go there. But if you want to see one of the basic flaws in scientific expression that is actually covering up the knowledge of the existence of God, then read this post.

The link is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=964266.msg10568165#msg10568165.

This is just one of several things that show that God absolutely DOES exist. If you look back through previous posts in this thread, you will be able to find several others.

[(oYo)]

[BADecker]

It is incomplete. The additional words should be, "... as I roast in Hell for not believing in Jesus or accepting the salvation Jesus provided for me."