Scientific proof that God exists?

[BADecker]

In my post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395, all I do is talk about science. I don't mention religion at all. Yet, all your responses following that post up to this one, talk about religion. Is science such a religion to all of you, that if someone comes along with science that doesn't limit itself to the way you religiously look at science, then he is really talking religion rather than science?

The point is becoming clearer. You simply aren't interested in the truth. All along I thought you people were scientifically minded people. Now it turns out that you are religiously minded people, and you have your own, little brand of science that is your religion.

How interesting you are. You are not interested in the truth. You are not interested in real science. All you are interested in is your brand of thinking that looks like science, but really isn't. You kids really have a weird religion.



EDIT: The post by the joint, directly above this post, isn't included in my little rant in this post.

Poorly.  You talk about Science poorly.  I've called you out on this so many times now it's insane.  You make the most ridiculous claims which are simply untrue.  For example, you've continuously called Science a religion.  It's not.  Words have definitions specifically so that people can communicate.  When you start inventing definitions on the fly, your statements become entirely meaningless.

People need to be able to understand your ideas, but you make it impossible because you're inventing definitions.  The result is that you are probably the only person in the entire world who holds those definitions, and so when you make a claim about something, you will also probably be the only person in the entire world who even understands your claim.  

If you want to make your own definitions and live in your own little language world, go right ahead, but just remember that, to people who use the same definitions everyone else uses, your claims are incommunicable and therefore unsound.

Edit:  And thanks lol

There are all kinds of people who, if you used the strict scientific method with them, they wouldn't have a clue as to what you were talking about. This is because the term "science" has taken on new meaning among the masses. People even call their electric range in their kitchen, science.

In my post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395, what definitions have I invented? That's why I have the dictionary definitions listed... just to show that the definitions are not mine. However, that isn't what you are posting against me about. What you are really posting against me about is the fact that you can actually use the sientific method in the link I listed to prove God. And, I explain it so that an average, non-scientific type of person, can understand it as well.

I may not have used terminology exactly the same way that a pure scientist would for explaining some science project wherein he used strict scientific method speech. But if I or you did such, the people would really be all mixed up. I am speaking their language.

1)  Science has "not" taken on new meaning among the masses.  Among the stupid, maybe.  Among the educated, no.  

2)  That's pretty amazing that you think you can use the Scientific Method to prove God, because it's a logical impossibility.  This is the proof in the pudding that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Science. Science is an inductive method of knowledge acquisition.  By definition, no inductive method has or could ever have the capacity to conclude about something so Universal.  

Any single time that you have ever said there is physical evidence and proof for God, you are necessarily wrong 100% of the time.  This can't be debated, it's a logical rule.  Sorry, try again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction

3)  You are in no way speaking the language of a scientist, because point #2 demonstrates you don't even understand how data turns into theory.  And, the reality is backwards of what you stated.  People are "all mixed up" precisely because you aren't speaking anyone's language.  You toss out words that everybody else already knows and can understand just fine.  You take those words, butcher them to death, extract some weird meaning that not only makes it impossible for anyone else to understand what you're saying, but renders your ideas completing meaningless to everyone else except you.

Stop pretending you know anything about Science.  You don't, and that's because you don't know the real definition of it, and therefore you can't distinguish between what is scientific and what isn't.  



Edit: Oh, about that link you posted.  Yeah, I saw that.  Good job for referencing definitions for consensus.  I mean that, because that's something you should do....

...but then you went ahead and said something along the lines of, "Oh look! The data I have fits definition #1!"   And definition #1 of "proof" was: "1. evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth."

And in no way did your data actually constitute proof of anything according to definition #1.  The so-called "evidence" that you think proves God is so insufficient that it could never say anything about God one way or the other.  

That's where an understanding of logic and sound inference comes into play, but you don't have that. There is not a single shred of physical evidence for God's existence, and that's because it's theoretically impossible for there to ever be any.

I pretty much disagree with what you are saying here, because pretty much all you are doing is saying that you disagree with what I am saying.

[BADecker]

@BADecker  How do you feel about the ancient gods? I'll pick one at random, let's say Thor? Do you believe in Thor?

What do you mean by the question "Do you believe in Thor?"

I believe that the real Thor was a capable person who people idolized. After he died, the story about him changed somewhat, over time.

Does anybody know about the real Thor? I haven't even been interested in him enough to look him up for scientific or archaeological details about who he really was.

But that isn't really what this thread is about, is it?

Actually it is. Why dont you believe in THOR? There are quadrilions of evidence of his existance? Can you prove that god thor does not exist?

Why do you think I don't believe in Thor? Didn't you read my post that you quoted?

[XinXan]

@BADecker  How do you feel about the ancient gods? I'll pick one at random, let's say Thor? Do you believe in Thor?

What do you mean by the question "Do you believe in Thor?"

I believe that the real Thor was a capable person who people idolized. After he died, the story about him changed somewhat, over time.

Does anybody know about the real Thor? I haven't even been interested in him enough to look him up for scientific or archaeological details about who he really was.

But that isn't really what this thread is about, is it?

Actually it is. Why dont you believe in THOR? There are quadrilions of evidence of his existance? Can you prove that god thor does not exist?

Why do you think I don't believe in Thor? Didn't you read my post that you quoted?

But can you prove he does not exist?

[BADecker]

@BADecker  How do you feel about the ancient gods? I'll pick one at random, let's say Thor? Do you believe in Thor?

What do you mean by the question "Do you believe in Thor?"

I believe that the real Thor was a capable person who people idolized. After he died, the story about him changed somewhat, over time.

Does anybody know about the real Thor? I haven't even been interested in him enough to look him up for scientific or archaeological details about who he really was.

But that isn't really what this thread is about, is it?

Well this thread is about god, and Thor was a god. The thread didn't specify which god.
Why are you rejecting this god yet believe yours is the true one?
Surely your being Atheist towards the god Thor? Logical right

Since you are saying that I am doing something that you really don't know that I am doing, and that it appears that I am not doing by my post which you quoted, there is no real way to respond to your questions. Logical, right?

[BADecker]

@BADecker  How do you feel about the ancient gods? I'll pick one at random, let's say Thor? Do you believe in Thor?

What do you mean by the question "Do you believe in Thor?"

I believe that the real Thor was a capable person who people idolized. After he died, the story about him changed somewhat, over time.

Does anybody know about the real Thor? I haven't even been interested in him enough to look him up for scientific or archaeological details about who he really was.

But that isn't really what this thread is about, is it?

Actually it is. Why dont you believe in THOR? There are quadrilions of evidence of his existance? Can you prove that god thor does not exist?

Why do you think I don't believe in Thor? Didn't you read my post that you quoted?

But can you prove he does not exist?

I don't even know who he is. I probably can't prove that he doesn't exist. But more importantly, why do you ask questions about Thor?

[Buffer Overflow]

@BADecker  How do you feel about the ancient gods? I'll pick one at random, let's say Thor? Do you believe in Thor?

What do you mean by the question "Do you believe in Thor?"

I believe that the real Thor was a capable person who people idolized. After he died, the story about him changed somewhat, over time.

Does anybody know about the real Thor? I haven't even been interested in him enough to look him up for scientific or archaeological details about who he really was.

But that isn't really what this thread is about, is it?

Well this thread is about god, and Thor was a god. The thread didn't specify which god.
Why are you rejecting this god yet believe yours is the true one?
Surely your being Atheist towards the god Thor? Logical right

Since you are saying that I am doing something that you really don't know that I am doing, and that it appears that I am not doing by my post which you quoted, there is no real way to respond to your questions. Logical, right?

That makes no sense.

[BADecker]

what created  god? Can't have something come from nothing, apparently.

God always existed. This universe, and the dimensions that are part of it, these are the things that have a beginning.

[XinXan]

@BADecker  How do you feel about the ancient gods? I'll pick one at random, let's say Thor? Do you believe in Thor?

What do you mean by the question "Do you believe in Thor?"

I believe that the real Thor was a capable person who people idolized. After he died, the story about him changed somewhat, over time.

Does anybody know about the real Thor? I haven't even been interested in him enough to look him up for scientific or archaeological details about who he really was.

But that isn't really what this thread is about, is it?

Actually it is. Why dont you believe in THOR? There are quadrilions of evidence of his existance? Can you prove that god thor does not exist?

Why do you think I don't believe in Thor? Didn't you read my post that you quoted?

But can you prove he does not exist?

I don't even know who he is. I probably can't prove that he doesn't exist. But more importantly, why do you ask questions about Thor?

Because he is a god and because you ask for proof against god. Im trying to make you understand how hard is to disprove something, pretty much imposible

[XinXan]

what created  god? Can't have something come from nothing, apparently.

God always existed. This universe, and the dimensions that are part of it, these are the things that have a beginning.

Any proof to sustain that statment?

[BADecker]

BADecker: Is the only proof the people need that bible is shit. Just read BADeckers posts.. no truth, no evidence, no proof, just shite spoutin from the most un-educated bible basher in history. Someone needs to tell him we're only entertaining him to see what more shite he'll spout about his jewish diety.. imagine.. a christian jew.. wow.. he's prob got a cross with a photo of himself stuck to jesus's face just to remind himself of his one fatal flaw.. he's a fuckin idiot, As his 'evidence' proves. Yeah BADecker, we know you are.. now hurry up and crucify yourself, saves us doing it for ya..

I know, I know. Now that we have figured out that God most certainly exists, you simply want to argue some about His attributes.

[BADecker]

Let me just put this here:
Do not be fearful of challenging your own beliefs, it can lead to great enlightenment. Think for a moment, if you were born in a different region of the world and your guardians taught you different beliefs than you have now, would you still hold the same beliefs you do today?
Most likely not, so wouldn't that mean your beliefs are largely based on your region and upbringing? Sometimes in the 'school of life' it is not only important to continue learning, but to unlearn that which does not agree with you anymore. Go within.

I've met a few interesting open-minded ones in my time,  and had some interesting conversations. And I'm sure we both walked away better off from it.

Such people stand out and I believe are much more intelligent than the other group, even though in practice it might not be shown.
Open-minded people would gladly accept what I've just quoted and this would lead to a great discussion. The piece that was quoted pretty much shows us that religion isn't anything special. Any "god" who will punish you for thinking for yourself, is not really a "god".

I'd also just say that meditation is much better (actually has benefits) than praying.

When you finally determine that going within is simply a method to prove that God does not exist, or else that He exists in yourself, then you have the chance to see if such thinking matches the things of the universe and nature around you.

Obviously, God exists as I have shown at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395. All that is left is to see if you are He (She/It). Miracle time.

[BADecker]

what created  god? Can't have something come from nothing, apparently.

The question "what created God?" is a nonsense question.  We can't even ask "what came before time?" and get a sensible answer.

That being said, true, something can't come from nothing, but the null set is not nothing, despite it containing nothing.

The "null set is not nothing, despite it containing nothing", can that be compared to an empty, airless Box? It contains nothing but is still "something".

I dont know what you want to say, but the box always contains something even if it is airless.

Except if the box happens to be a single point.   

[BADecker]

what created  god? Can't have something come from nothing, apparently.

The question "what created God?" is a nonsense question.  We can't even ask "what came before time?" and get a sensible answer.

That being said, true, something can't come from nothing, but the null set is not nothing, despite it containing nothing.

The "null set is not nothing, despite it containing nothing", can that be compared to an empty, airless Box? It contains nothing but is still "something".

I dont know what you want to say, but the box always contains something even if it is airless.

I was trying to make a comparison between what he said which I assumed was talking about before the "big bang"(which is losing support compared to the "timeless" universe theory), where there was supposedly "nothing". Maybe thered be particles floating around, but I don't mean a literal box. And I don't believe in the idea that there can't ever be nothing, it's nonsensical. Even new theories regarding the "origins" of the universe display that the universe itself may have always been "something".

There wasn't any Big Bang, and the universe isn't timeless. God is timeless, and He created the universe to have a time beginning.

[BADecker]

@BADecker  How do you feel about the ancient gods? I'll pick one at random, let's say Thor? Do you believe in Thor?

What do you mean by the question "Do you believe in Thor?"

I believe that the real Thor was a capable person who people idolized. After he died, the story about him changed somewhat, over time.

Does anybody know about the real Thor? I haven't even been interested in him enough to look him up for scientific or archaeological details about who he really was.

But that isn't really what this thread is about, is it?

Well this thread is about god, and Thor was a god. The thread didn't specify which god.
Why are you rejecting this god yet believe yours is the true one?
Surely your being Atheist towards the god Thor? Logical right

Since you are saying that I am doing something that you really don't know that I am doing, and that it appears that I am not doing by my post which you quoted, there is no real way to respond to your questions. Logical, right?

That makes no sense.

You would say that.   

[Buffer Overflow]

BADecker: Is the only proof the people need that bible is shit. Just read BADeckers posts.. no truth, no evidence, no proof, just shite spoutin from the most un-educated bible basher in history. Someone needs to tell him we're only entertaining him to see what more shite he'll spout about his jewish diety.. imagine.. a christian jew.. wow.. he's prob got a cross with a photo of himself stuck to jesus's face just to remind himself of his one fatal flaw.. he's a fuckin idiot, As his 'evidence' proves. Yeah BADecker, we know you are.. now hurry up and crucify yourself, saves us doing it for ya..

I know, I know. Now that we have figured out that God most certainly exists, you simply want to argue some about His attributes.

The only thing we've figured out today is that you've secretly been an atheist all along.

[BADecker]

@BADecker  How do you feel about the ancient gods? I'll pick one at random, let's say Thor? Do you believe in Thor?

What do you mean by the question "Do you believe in Thor?"

I believe that the real Thor was a capable person who people idolized. After he died, the story about him changed somewhat, over time.

Does anybody know about the real Thor? I haven't even been interested in him enough to look him up for scientific or archaeological details about who he really was.

But that isn't really what this thread is about, is it?

Actually it is. Why dont you believe in THOR? There are quadrilions of evidence of his existance? Can you prove that god thor does not exist?

Why do you think I don't believe in Thor? Didn't you read my post that you quoted?

But can you prove he does not exist?

I don't even know who he is. I probably can't prove that he doesn't exist. But more importantly, why do you ask questions about Thor?

Because he is a god and because you ask for proof against god. Im trying to make you understand how hard is to disprove something, pretty much imposible

Thank you. That is almost exactly the "small" idea of my post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395. Not only do we have no way of proving God does not exist, but we have a universe full of reasons why He does exist, as pointed out at my post.

[BADecker]

BADecker: Is the only proof the people need that bible is shit. Just read BADeckers posts.. no truth, no evidence, no proof, just shite spoutin from the most un-educated bible basher in history. Someone needs to tell him we're only entertaining him to see what more shite he'll spout about his jewish diety.. imagine.. a christian jew.. wow.. he's prob got a cross with a photo of himself stuck to jesus's face just to remind himself of his one fatal flaw.. he's a fuckin idiot, As his 'evidence' proves. Yeah BADecker, we know you are.. now hurry up and crucify yourself, saves us doing it for ya..

I know, I know. Now that we have figured out that God most certainly exists, you simply want to argue some about His attributes.

The only thing we've figured out today is that you've secretly been an atheist all along.

Nobody has complete faith in the existence of God. And one must have some faith just to live. The question is, do I have enough faith that God can use it to save me? I hope and trust that He will hold my faith strong enough that I will be saved. Why? Certainly I don't want the pain of damnation. But more importantly, I don't want to miss out on living in the New Heavens and the New Earth, with God, forever beholding the Greatness and Wonderfullness that He is.

[Buffer Overflow]

BADecker: Is the only proof the people need that bible is shit. Just read BADeckers posts.. no truth, no evidence, no proof, just shite spoutin from the most un-educated bible basher in history. Someone needs to tell him we're only entertaining him to see what more shite he'll spout about his jewish diety.. imagine.. a christian jew.. wow.. he's prob got a cross with a photo of himself stuck to jesus's face just to remind himself of his one fatal flaw.. he's a fuckin idiot, As his 'evidence' proves. Yeah BADecker, we know you are.. now hurry up and crucify yourself, saves us doing it for ya..

I know, I know. Now that we have figured out that God most certainly exists, you simply want to argue some about His attributes.

The only thing we've figured out today is that you've secretly been an atheist all along.

Nobody has complete faith in the existence of God. And one must have some faith just to live. The question is, do I have enough faith that God can use it to save me? I hope and trust that He will hold my faith strong enough that I will be saved. Why? Certainly I don't want the pain of damnation. But more importantly, I don't want to miss out on living in the New Heavens and the New Earth, with God, forever beholding the Greatness and Wonderfullness that He is.

What's this got to do with my last statement? Your rambling.

[XinXan]

Can you answer my last 2 posts?

[BADecker]

what created  god? Can't have something come from nothing, apparently.

God always existed. This universe, and the dimensions that are part of it, these are the things that have a beginning.

Any proof to sustain that statment?

Not the first statement. Cause and effect, combined with the complexity of the universe, along with the entropy therein, prove the second.

Remember, we all believe. We believe in many things because we don't have any proof for them. We even believe and hope that the next second of our lives will be at least as good, if not better than, the last, because we don't know for a fact what will happen even a second into the future.

Consider Hiroshima and Nagasaki. One instant the people were living their lives. The next instant they were gone. They had no clue.