Jasinlee - one of XC's "Team Members" is a master fraudster

[rdnkjdi]

Alright I'm going to (try) to be brief.

Cryptocurrencies are built on trust/distrust by association.

Prior to now - Jasinlee was listed as the #2 developer on XC per their website.  In recent allegations he was taken off the website.  I gave them the benefit of the doubt that they would politely ask him to step away.  However it looks more like he's still a pretty integral part of the project.  His website is now dedicated to XC (fibonacci.io) and he took down the ability for the ASIC purchasers to log in and see their shares (was supposed to be a hosted thing).  He now says nothing about ASICs - limited to XC/Cache promotion.

Jasinlee has scammed people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars on a preorder Scyrpt ASIC.  He has not responded to anything (dozens) of questions that his "answers" raised after an IRC chat that was supposed to clear up questions.  He has gone awol but continues to work on the XC project.

Scam accusation project -> https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21506.msg198342#msg198342
Summary thread (needs updated) -> https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21742.msg203897#msg203897
Summary of last communication w Jasinlee week ago summarized (I will be corrected if I get any of it wrong) -> https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21742.msg203897#msg203897

Alliance with XC confirmed today.

'Cryptophi was a joined marketing project and what got us to Bitcoin in the Beltway.'

Furthermore, hes active in our 'project' chat.

Jasin's work and experience is beneficial to XC. So far his experience and coding in regards to XC have been extremely useful for the project.

https://fibonacci.io/ (fibonacci is where we originally ordered the miners.  Nothing is said about them now)
http://cryptophi.com/ (joint effort by jasinlee & XC & Cache)

I don't believe XC is "behind" the ASIC scam however.

1 - They continue to be happy to partner with Jasinlee to promote their coin on a website I used to be able to log into and look at my "ASIC" shares that are never coming.  Now it's dedicated to promoting XC/Cache.

2 - They continue to be happy to be associated with him as a developer which leads me to believe he is a very core part of the team.  (He was listed as #2 dev at one time)

3 - I'm not sure if they are aware.  But the technology associated with XC Jasinlee has several times mentioned porting over to Cachecoin.  Since XC is closed source I believe he plans on using it to "pump" cachecoin (anon messaging, anon transactions, sidechain technology it is unclear if it will be released to Cachecoin or XC first).

<<Edit>> The devs assure me that all the features that exist in XC that are going to Cachecoin will be redeveloped by Jasin.  #3 is a strong hunch supported by evidence but not provable.


This is a long long post to just say.  There is much more here than meets the eye to both Cachecoin, XCurrency, Jasinlee, a website I used to be able to log into my account with that now says nothing about ASICs. 

Take it for what it's worth.  Don't walk but RUN from XC and/or Cache.  They had a chance to disassociate themselves and they have chosen not to.


This is from Teka for XC on their stance of my accusations. 

If you could include this in the op even as a direct qoute I will be extremely happy:

- You can not guarantee that people will loose many because Jasin is involved
         - Our core community is aware of this situation and has expressed their opinon, none of them have dumped or a dumping because of Jasin.

- He's not in position of power.
         - He has no access to any of the funds like the premine
         - He can't dictate what the team does or who works for XC

- Jasin's involvement with cachecoin was public

- Blockchain 2.0 and POBOC ('Interchains') was public and we released that we will be working with Cache on this
           -Currently this in very very early stages

- Anon features were a part of Cache, we addressed the fact that the implementation was different. We never tried to hide the fact that Cache had Anon features. In fact we even discussed it with members. Although these features seem similar they have nothing to do with XC.

- This means that most people knew about nearly every detail of cache and the collab with XC

- You cannot prove that Jasin is stealing any code. As you said this your gut feeling.
        - None of the current tech published by XC was created by Jasin


Also if you a serious about this put a disclaimer that currently you have published no proof. You might have some, I have no idea if you do but currently you haven't put anything out.

Following are two summaries posted later in the thread that may explain the situation in more detail.

Whoa there!!!!

Can someone please link me to the "proof" that Jasin' been naughty? I find it hard to believe.

And I can tell you without a single shred of doubt that the Cachecoin dev is not in anyway linked with any shady shit.

Very naughty ; )

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2702.0
No proof there, tho.
But some things do look.. u know.. weird ; )

Fib ASIC marketing was nice - aim at forum members, LTC defense blah-blah, 'trusted' distribution.
Most of concerns raised were flagged as 'trolling'/'FUD'/'shill attacks' and sometimes post deleted.
Also - 'we are not forcing you to buy our Fib ASIC' type answer was used frequently to answer some of the concerns ; )

Litecointalk forum moderators were made involved by making some of them 'trusted hosts'. And ofc it is very hard to separate your private interest from public forum moderation. This resulted in biased(imo) mods actions in Fib ASIC threads and other ASIC manufacturers threads. As in - in Fib thread mods were making warning and deleting(?) 'concerns' as fud/trolling and posting similar 'concerns' in other threads by themselves ; ) To confirm read all posts of mods in all AISC threads.. (yeah it's very annoying, but funny).

CACHE.. Jasin started accepting CacheCoin as a payment for Fib ASIC at a fixed price, higher than on the exchanges. Some members on bitcointalk and litecointalk had "ASIC coin" in their signatures. CacheCoin exchange rate went up. If I'm not mistaken litecontalk moderator Sy had huge ammount of Cache(mined?) so he bought a lot of Fib ASICs. After Fib stopped accepting Cache exchange rate plummeted down.
Some ppl claim that this was an intentional pump&dump of Cache and that the developer of Cache was involved. Cache dev(kalgecin) and jasin apparently were working together(?) on some Cache features and jasin occasinally made claims that he is very interested in Cache(and XC) and has some plans for it.
At the time, the proof from jasin that is was not pump&dump I've read was that he has not sold any Cache received for the ASICs. However to gain profit from this possible p&d you don't necessarily need to sell aquired Cache, you just need to make enough profit on Cache rate fluctuation you knew in advance and number of ASICs you can buy with Cache was intentionally limited. Also there were some allegations(with proof) that jasin wife sold some Cache prior the pump.

Also Fib ASICs were not sold as actual asics instead they were sold as hardware shares also Fib profit shares were sold.
Exchange was promised for those to be implemented. It was never completed cause.. jasin said dev run away. There is also no proof that it ever was developed. Also defense line - 'we make ASICs no websites' was used to 'calm down' ppl concerned that Fib site is buggy and exchange is not completed yet ; ) And ofc that ppl are trolling and are shills of the competitors and that they are not developers and don't understand how much effort it takes to make and test a web site ; )

What's funny is that long before Fib began sales there was a talk that practice of giving money to 'trusted' ppl should be stopped. mmitech(litecointalk) argued that there are enough cases when 'trusted' ppl collected vast ammounts of BTC and dissapeared after. At the time Jasin said that comparison is wrong, cause he have not collected any money yet ; ) Well.. now he has ; )

After 'fud' of corrupted litecointalk mods, admins and LiteCoin association spread, TheMage(litecointalk mod) organised a meeting with Jasin where some 'trusted' ppl representing investors were allowed to ask Jasin some questions. Some of the info was not made public, cause Jasin said it is a part of NDA between him and ASIC chip designers. However, total ammount of planned ASIC chips was made public - ppl counted their orders and realised that planned ammount is much(?) less.
Also coversation revealed the fact that Fib is still on ASIC prototyping/simulation stage. This is odd cause when KNC announced their scrypt ASIC, Fib raised  performance, claiming that they have been designing ASIC for years and that at first they revealed well below performance number not to spook competitors. Again concerns were either marked as trolling/fud and partially answered with 'we have genious salsa dev'.
Also Jasin claimed that ASIC design company(or fab?!) is not aware that they are designing ASIC to be used for litecoin mining and that it was deliberately made secret, because they hate everything about the cryptos and won't do the job if they knew.

*From OP's perspective the mods/admins of litecointalk were suckered in by Jasin. 

*TheMage asked me to clarify that he was not involved in the project (hosting or anything else) but was asked to step in and moderate the discussion as an unbiased party after things went south and that was the the limit of his involvement.

Just to follow up with some additional points regarding this:

Jasin/Wifey & Cache
Some research found some posts about Jasin blasting people for using sock puppet accounts at some point in time. Then a connection was made between his wife's nickname (email addresses, social media, etc.) pretty much directly tying Jasin & said account to the Cache stuff (i.e. stuff like "just bought from the CACHE dev, later on posting blocks of Cache for sale at the newly pumped/inflated prices. Based on everything I saw, there's about 0% chance that this person was not Jasin (maybe his wife, but I tend to think it was him). So much for being against sock puppet accounts.

General FIBs
Up until about late spring/early summer the ASIC project was touted as being so far ahead of any competition due to the fact that it was something like 1.5+ years in the making... the hash rate, power consumption, etc. Up until this point, Jasin was happy to quickly answer technical questions about the product.

At the same time, he was also touting his "high frequency exchange" being virtually complete minus some fixes for "regulatory stuff" in around April/May... no proof has ever been provided that such a product exists, much less that it's in BETA state.

This is around the same point he got involved with XC and his attention clearly went to playing coin pumper to that community, which was embraced and promoted by the "team". Talks of "fund evalutions, "watch the price, big whales are going to start buying" you'll be sorry if you sell now, etc. etc." started appearing.

At some point in early Summer, Jasin promised a major update the following week or something. Then he disappeared for like a month. Finally he comes back not with any update but unveils the great coin theft debacle with his developer. I have no idea what happened, my own theory is that the developer was in a situation where he probably was owed money by Jasin and couldn't get paid and maybe out of frustration just took what he was owed and bailed... I don't know, that makes sense to me because not all coins were stolen, which would seem to be what someone would do if they were simply a crook. Now, that doesn't condone what the dude did by running off with coins, but it seems to fit things better than just someone running away with all the coins. Now if it was a open & shut "theft" Jasin is still grossly negligent as the "CEO" of a company to not only allow someone he loosely knew with access to the coins, but also to have no idea that the theft even happened when it did.

This is when things really started to unravel where he started to finally come clean about the true state of the project... at first he tried to say it was still going on and just in a round of testing... I believe later it came to light that there wasn't even a previous design and the chip was still being designed (again I point back to the initial claims of the maturity and status of the project). This alone is probably enough to prove fraud in the sense that he provided customers and investors material information he knew to be incorrect at the time.

Finally, remember he was not only involved in product sales, but was also selling profit shares in his company. Ethically, you would think you'd want to be more honest and forthright to not only customers, but investors as well. To my knowledge, he's never proposed any type of plan for recourse for those investors beyond the refunds, which have stopped coming.

(Note: These is all pretty much paraphrasing things, as i'm recalling from memory here)

How does this tie to XC? Well, both times i've seen it leak over to the XC thread the team has vigorously defended him and embraced him as part of the team (officially a member up until sometime last night it looks like). I have no idea why, maybe they believe that he brings value with #cyrptophi, his promises of interactions with "funds", etc. I don't know.

But it reflects incredibly poorly on the community and the team to not have actually read through the case, realized there was enough PROOF (preponderance of evidence anyone?) that this has spiraled to something more than just a mismanaged project and could have definitely acted to help those hurt recover something earlier, even just through putting pressure on him publicly and privately. Unfortunately, alts have devolved to such a point where it's ok for stuff like this to happen I guess.

But we get instead filibustering and name-calling (remember, i'm BRUTALLY UNETHICAL) and continued support of Jasin.

Of course this hurts XC, the last time I tried posting on the thread I got hit with the same FUD nonsense, but surprisingly there were a number of PMs asking for more info... to which I just pointed them to the LTC forum thread to judge for themselves... Not everyone who invests or follows a coin is blindly faithful.

Claim that Jasinlee was never an XC developer

We need to change the title of this thread as Dan M from XC has unambiguously stated that Jasinlee was NEVER an XC developer.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.msg8706065#msg8706065

These are the facts in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months on official XC website.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?unsure about this.

7 - On the 5th Teka (XC Official) said Jasinlee was a team member.  On the 9th - the official statement says he has not been a team member since being taken off the website months ago.

*Sigh* Except that Tika and their official PR guy and what used to be posted on their website is in direct contradiction to this statement.

I will post this for the benefit on anyone in XC.  I came over to the XC chat thread and had a pretty extensive argument about Jasinlee and explained that he was scamming people / ignoring people who had paid him hundreds of thousands probably close to a month ago.

I was told I was a FUDDER, Jasinlee was fine, he was a great dev, etc etc.

Soon after XC came up in a thread on the normal bitcoin altcoin forum.  I brought up that Jasinlee was the #2 core dev (it looked like it - he was listed on the website right next to Dan in the developer section).  Dan popped in and said "Do you SEE HIM LISTED as a core dev?  No you don't."  Soon after that Jasinlee was taken off of the website.

Until now I've left it alone even though Jasinlee is pushing XC/Cachecoin very hard on his website which is a pretty huge insult to those of us who were scammed.  I'm fine with him pretending to be associated with a coin that isn't actively associating with him.  I sluffed this off as "not XC's fault that he's pushing them - he must just be a bagholder"

Recently in the chat thread some people have mentioned him and his work (including official XC people).  One guy even mentioned bringing him on full time.  I brought him up in the chat thread AGAIN.  People rallied around Jasinlee and told me to take my complaints somewhere else (including Teka) and that he was still very involved in the project.  There was no "We are looking into this.  If there are allegations we will see if it's true that a developer associated with us is scamming people and cut ties."  There was resounding defense and "go away fudder" so I created this thread to present my side of the story.

It is quite easy reading thru Synchillis and Teka's post that XC is still very involved with Jasinlee but want nothing to do with his baggage.  If anyone has any questions about this I can pull a dozen quotes out of my ass to support that statement. 

At the VERY VERY end of this when they feel they have not adequately defended Jasinlee's reputation enough to keep it from causing damage to their coin.  They switched their stories and say this.

No your missing the point, Jasin was never an XC delevoper

As far as I'm concerned Jasinlee was listed on the website as a dev.  Everybody defends him.  When they realize there is truth to allegations the LEAD developer of XC decides to lie about if he is a developer on the XC project.

I started this thread with a huge beef with Jasinlee thinking a coin would do some investigation into it.  I'm left with lies, halftruths, some punk ass word playing wanna be hipster and a blatant lie from the lead dev.  You're welcome to call this FUD but the response from the coin to this situation in and of itself is something you should probably take into consideration before investing.

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[rdnkjdi]

Some other misc shady things he's done.

. He offered massive discount for Cachecoin on his ASICs.  He then dumped/sold cachecoin into the buying frenzy using his wife's sockpuppet account.

. He/XC talked up their "sidechain" idea on the XC website.  However Jasin is seen posting about it in the Cachecoin thread.

. Jasin can be seen promoting adding the features from the closed source XC project into Cachecoin (pump it a second time at expense of XC holders)



Responses to XC people (I can do that too)
There is a general accusation that I'm providing no proof of Jasin's scam.  I've provided plenty of proof but refuse to create a thread that would literally be 6 pages long no one would read.  People have spent hundreds of hours, lawyers are involved, etc over this deal.  Trust me there is PLENTY of proof - if you do not believe me follow the threads I've provided.  Look on the litecoin forums.

The XC developers largely turn a blind eye and pretty much are content with their alliance with fibonacci.io/jasin and I'm not welcome in their thread for spreading "FUD" which is the reason for bringing my case here.  I have been dealing with this situation for MONTHS and occasionally posted in the XC thread and was asked to take my conversation elsewhere.

- You have no evidence whatsoever that Jasin can (or wants to) steal XC's code.

My post was an overview.  Read his posts to Cachecoin about anonymous chat/anonymous transactions/innerchain stuff.

- You have given no evidence of any kind about dumping/selling Cachecoin

The proof which is conclusive is listed in the scammer accusations threads I posted.  It would make this post WAY too long.  If people want to dig - I provided the resources for them to dig inside of an overview.

- You have given no evidence at all of a sockpuppet account.

Again - it's contained in the threads I provided.

- Is it supposed to be a bad thing somehow that XC is mentioned on Fibonacci.io? What's wrong with that?

I paid for a website that is mostly promoting YOUR COIN.  I can't even log in anymore.  Yea ... something is wrong.

- Jasin is not an employee of XC.

He is a dev (was listed as #2 dev) and a marketing collaborator that you are more than willing to defend in your chat thread.  My guess is that he is a VERY integral part of your coin otherwise he would be a massive liability.  The darker side of my suspicions would be that all the upper devs are going to port the features from XC to Cache - or perhaps he funded your project with borrowed money from the ASIC pre-orders.  However those would be unsubstantiated (although still a lurking suspicion)

You guys brag about being a company.  And in crypto guilt/trust by association is the ONLY way to create sanity out of the wild wild west we have going on here.

You've even got your facts wrong about sidechains. Jasin's technology is *interchains*, which *supersedes* the concept of a sidechain.

Sidechains, innerchains, whatever.  You have your facts wrong - it isn't coming to XC - it's coming to Cachecoin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400389.msg7959360#msg7959360

Please just delete it.

No.

ANY QUESTIONS FEEL FREE TO ASK VIA PM

Yeah or feel free to ask here.  Or somewhere else where it is publicly documented.

[Teka]

Reserved for further info.

What is that opening post supposed to amount to?

You have nothing resembling a case against a scammer here.

- You have no evidence whatsoever that Jasin can (or wants to) steal XC's code.

- You have given no evidence of any kind about dumping/selling Cachecoin

- You have given no evidence at all of a sockpuppet account.

- Is it supposed to be a bad thing somehow that XC is mentioned on Fibonacci.io? What's wrong with that?

- Jasin is not an employee of XC.

- You've even got your facts wrong about sidechains. Jasin's technology is *interchains*, which *supersedes* the concept of a sidechain.


This thread is pretty ridiculous.

Please just delete it.

ALWAYS DO YOUR RESEARCH.

XC WEBSITE - http://www.xc-official.com/

ANY QUESTIONS FEEL FREE TO ASK VIA PM/TWITTER OR IN OUR THREAD

XC IS FUNDED BY DAN (XC'S FOUNDER/ MAIN DEV)

[Teka]

Reserved for further info.


Jasin is a part of the team and his work as well as his experience has been useful towards XCs development. We have no control over the Fibonacci site and never asked him to put the XC brand on the site. Also it seems like that site is used to promote Jasin's projects rather than XC.

Jasin's current projects (at the expense of those of us who have funded his time/effort are)

#1 - XCurrency.
#2 - Cachecoin.

XCurrency is not Jasin, he's a team member and thats it.

[synechist]

What is that opening post supposed to amount to?

You have nothing resembling a case against a scammer here.

- You have no evidence whatsoever that Jasin can (or wants to) steal XC's code.

- You have given no evidence of any kind about dumping/selling Cachecoin

- You have given no evidence at all of a sockpuppet account.

- Is it supposed to be a bad thing somehow that XC is mentioned on Fibonacci.io? What's wrong with that?

- Jasin is not an employee of XC.

- You've even got your facts wrong about sidechains. Jasin's technology is *interchains*, which *supersedes* the concept of a sidechain.


This thread is pretty ridiculous.

Please just delete it.

[rdnkjdi]

- You have no evidence whatsoever that Jasin can (or wants to) steal XC's code.

My post was an overview.  Read his posts to Cachecoin about anonymous chat/anonymous transactions/innerchain stuff.

- You have given no evidence of any kind about dumping/selling Cachecoin

The proof which is conclusive is listed in the scammer accusations threads I posted.  It would make this post WAY too long.  If people want to dig - I provided the resources for them to dig inside of an overview.

- You have given no evidence at all of a sockpuppet account.

Again - it's contained in the threads I provided.

- Is it supposed to be a bad thing somehow that XC is mentioned on Fibonacci.io? What's wrong with that?

I paid for a website that is mostly promoting YOUR COIN.  I can't even log in anymore.  Yea ... something is wrong.

- Jasin is not an employee of XC.

He is a dev (was listed as #2 dev) and a marketing collaborator that you are more than willing to defend in your chat thread.  My guess is that he is a VERY integral part of your coin otherwise he would be a massive liability.  The darker side of my suspicions would be that all the upper devs are going to port the features from XC to Cache - or perhaps he funded your project with borrowed money from the ASIC pre-orders.  However those would be unsubstantiated (although still a lurking suspicion)

You guys brag about being a company.  And in crypto guilt/trust by association is the ONLY way to create sanity out of the wild wild west we have going on here.

You've even got your facts wrong about sidechains. Jasin's technology is *interchains*, which *supersedes* the concept of a sidechain.

Sidechains, innerchains, whatever.  You have your facts wrong - it isn't coming to XC - it's coming to Cachecoin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400389.msg7959360#msg7959360

Please just delete it.

No.

[Teka]

What is that opening post supposed to amount to?

You have nothing resembling a case against a scammer here.

- You have no evidence whatsoever that Jasin can (or wants to) steal XC's code.

- You have given no evidence of any kind about dumping/selling Cachecoin

- You have given no evidence at all of a sockpuppet account.

- Is it supposed to be a bad thing somehow that XC is mentioned on Fibonacci.io? What's wrong with that?

- Jasin is not an employee of XC.

- You've even got your facts wrong about sidechains. Jasin's technology is *interchains*, which *supersedes* the concept of a sidechain.


This thread is pretty ridiculous.

Please just delete it.

 Maybe he's going to rewrite anonymization tech from scratch.

You got it, Jasins implementation for Anon are different. Also please change the title to XC Team Member at least.

[synechist]

What is that opening post supposed to amount to?

You have nothing resembling a case against a scammer here.

- You have no evidence whatsoever that Jasin can (or wants to) steal XC's code.

- You have given no evidence of any kind about dumping/selling Cachecoin

- You have given no evidence at all of a sockpuppet account.

- Is it supposed to be a bad thing somehow that XC is mentioned on Fibonacci.io? What's wrong with that?

- Jasin is not an employee of XC.

- You've even got your facts wrong about sidechains. Jasin's technology is *interchains*, which *supersedes* the concept of a sidechain.


This thread is pretty ridiculous.

Please just delete it.

First of all I have plenty of a case.  It would just make this thread MASSIVELY long.  If you read the threads I posted in detail about Jasin being a scammer it has the proof of his sockpuppet/wife's account.  You will see all the proof listed for everything.

I am the one who lost thousands of dollars at the expense of your developer.  So no, I'm not in the wrong and I am not going to delete this thread.  Perhaps refine it over time.  You guys are the ones saying your coin runs like a company.  So I'm simply warning possible investors.

I was under the impression sidechains were coming to XC.  But Jasin says they are coming to Cachecoin.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400389.msg7959360#msg7959360

My (gut feel) is that all of Jasinlee's posts about private chats / transactions coming to cachecoin will be coming from the XC code base.  However I do admit those are my gut feelings.  Maybe he's going to rewrite anonymization tech from scratch.

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension. Go read the post by Jasin you just linked me to. Interchains, not sidechains.

If you have evidence to back up your case, for heaven's sake link it. Otherwise this all just looks like hot air.

Your gut feelings have no role to play when making serious allegations against a person. Think about what you're doing here.

Lastly, you'd better re-read the posts you link to here in case you've misread them (as per "sidechains") and they're actually not about Jasin's alleged scamming.


Or you could just give up and start addressing your problem in more productive ways.

[rdnkjdi]

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension. Go read the post by Jasin you just linked me to. Interchains, not sidechains.

If you have evidence to back up your case, for heaven's sake link it. Otherwise this all just looks like hot air.

Your gut feelings have no role to play when making serious allegations against a person. Think about what you're doing here.

Lastly, you'd better re-read the posts you link to here in case you've misread them (as per "sidechains") and they're actually not about Jasin's alleged scamming.


Or you could just give up and start addressing your problem in more productive ways.

While I can appreciate your attack on my intelligence I assure you we over at litecoin have addressed this in every possible way.  There have been no answers to any relevant questions for two weeks since an IRC that raised way more questions than it answered.  Jasin deletes anything of substance (and refuses to post) in his fibonacci.io thread on bitcointalk.  

Just out of curiosity - did he provide massive funding for XC?  Any funding? 

I find it really interesting that he's dumped us (not had the time to put together an ASIC page on fibonacci or make it to where we could log in again) but been able to afford massive collaboration with you guys.

I know Dan pays for part of the funding - does Jasinlee pay for part of the funding (possibly from ASIC funds) as well?

[synechist]

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension. Go read the post by Jasin you just linked me to. Interchains, not sidechains.

If you have evidence to back up your case, for heaven's sake link it. Otherwise this all just looks like hot air.

Your gut feelings have no role to play when making serious allegations against a person. Think about what you're doing here.

Lastly, you'd better re-read the posts you link to here in case you've misread them (as per "sidechains") and they're actually not about Jasin's alleged scamming.


Or you could just give up and start addressing your problem in more productive ways.

does Jasinlee pay for part of the funding (possibly from ASIC funds) as well?

No. And once again, speculation has no place in a compilation of serious allegations against a person.

Serious allegations must be provable, or else you're doing a horribly unethical thing. Just think about how awful a thing it is to be accused of what you're accusing. It's incredibly irresponsible to throw these accusations around lightly.

PROVE IT, or go away.

[rdnkjdi]

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension. Go read the post by Jasin you just linked me to. Interchains, not sidechains.

If you have evidence to back up your case, for heaven's sake link it. Otherwise this all just looks like hot air.

Your gut feelings have no role to play when making serious allegations against a person. Think about what you're doing here.

Lastly, you'd better re-read the posts you link to here in case you've misread them (as per "sidechains") and they're actually not about Jasin's alleged scamming.


Or you could just give up and start addressing your problem in more productive ways.

does Jasinlee pay for part of the funding (possibly from ASIC funds) as well?

No. And once again, speculation has no place in a compilation of serious allegations against a person.

Serious allegations must be provable, or else you're doing a horribly unethical thing. Just think about how awful a thing it is to be accused of what you're accusing. It's incredibly irresponsible to throw these accusations around lightly.

PROVE IT, or go away.

DID YOU F****** read ANY of the threads I linked to?  atomicchaos has a lawyer, has 30K wrapped up in fibonacci.io and has PROVEN that jasinlee was selling cachecoin thru his wife's account while pumping it with his "massive ASIC discount"

Furthermore did you read Jasin's posts?  Are innerchains coming to XC or Cachecoin or both at the same time?  My point was just that at one point it was listed as a future XC feature.  Now it's listed as a future Cache feature.

I'm not the one with reading comprehension skills and I'm so sick of you guys just ignoring anything that is proven to be true by saying "MORE PROOF - NO PROOF"

Run for these guys people.  Run and don't look back.  

No. And once again, speculation has no place in a compilation of serious allegations against a person.

A person who is guilty of massive fraud and PROVEN dishonesty milking investors for hundreds of thousands has no place building an "anon cryptocoin of the future."

Unless it's XCurrency apparently.  

No. And once again, speculation has no place in a compilation of serious allegations against a person.

That was a question.  Not an allegation and you seem like a (fairly) trustworthy person who doesn't blatantly lie so I will take your word for that as truth.

You got it, Jasins implementation for Anon are different. Also please change the title to XC Team Member at least.

So.  Let me get this straight.  There is one developer working on your anon coin.  That you keep partially closed sourced.  He is also working on a second anon coin that he is going to implement his own anon into.  Wouldn't this include what he learns from your coin that you keep closed sourced - even if it's not exactly the same code?

Is that fair to your investors (3.5 million dollar coin) vs cachecoin (10K coin)?

Jasin may well end up here full time.. Even if they nicked all our code it would still have no credibility.... Trust in Dan and the team they know what they are doing...

Is jasin working for you full time?  Does he draw a salary (fiat, or cryptocurrency)?

[organizer]

Wonder why XC is going nowhere with this braintrust involved. There's more than reasonable evidence that Jasin is at least involved in Fraud (whether you want to say intentional or unintentional, is up to you), why on earth would they defend him and keep him around. Hilarious stuff XC team.

[synechist]

why on earth would they defend him and keep him around.

Why on earth would you attack him so persistently? You're not even a customer of his.

[rdnkjdi]

why on earth would they defend him and keep him around.

Why on earth would you attack him so persistently? You're not even a customer of his.

What the hell?  This is essentially XC's PR guy saying "Who gives a shit if he's a scammer - he didn't take YOUR money.  What's your problem"

"You have no reason to inform people that a developer is a massive fraudster if he didn't take YOUR MONEY"

Does nobody give a flying f%%% when people are ripped off thousands and just continue on their way?  The XC "team" obviously doesn't.  Not in practice - not in speech.  And this statement parades it around on massive display.

You do NOT want to be associated with these guys.

"If he didn't steal from you - you shouldn't give a sh** that other people are gonna get ripped off"

What a tool.

[synechist]

There's more than reasonable evidence that Jasin is at least involved in Fraud (whether you want to say intentional or unintentional, is up to you).

Nope, there isn't. There's just people like you who excel in interpreting information in ways that suit certain purposes.

Jasin has refunded a large number of people, and will resolve the ASIC issue one way or another. The decentralised exchange is going live soon too so people will have opportunity to sell shares.


The problem with all this is that you're on the outside with suspicions, hearsay, and scant evidence, and we're on the inside and can chat to Jasin regularly and also get a clear notion of his character and personality.

This is why we defend him even though he has no definite role in XC and even though we have no need to in order to defend XC's legitimacy. We know him better.

[synechist]

why on earth would they defend him and keep him around.

Why on earth would you attack him so persistently? You're not even a customer of his.

What the hell?  This is essentially XC's PR guy saying "Who gives a shit if he's a scammer - he didn't take YOUR money.  What's your problem"

"You have no reason to inform people that a developer is a massive fraudster if he didn't take YOUR MONEY"

Does nobody give a flying f%%% when people are ripped off thousands and just continue on their way?  The XC "team" obviously doesn't.  Not in practice - not in speech.  And this statement parades it around on massive display.

You do NOT want to be associated with these guys.

"If he didn't steal from you - you shouldn't give a sh** that other people are gonna get ripped off"

What a tool.

If I'm not mistaken, Jasin refunded you and then you claimed to have bought more shares - but didn't prove it.

You stopped replying to Jasin's PMs.

Why don't you simply reply with proof of the money you're owed and then get refunded?

[synechist]

why on earth would they defend him and keep him around.

Why on earth would you attack him so persistently? You're not even a customer of his.

What the hell?  This is essentially XC's PR guy saying "Who gives a shit if he's a scammer - he didn't take YOUR money.  What's your problem"

"You have no reason to inform people that a developer is a massive fraudster if he didn't take YOUR MONEY"

Does nobody give a flying f%%% when people are ripped off thousands and just continue on their way?  The XC "team" obviously doesn't.  Not in practice - not in speech.  And this statement parades it around on massive display.

You do NOT want to be associated with these guys.

"If he didn't steal from you - you shouldn't give a sh** that other people are gonna get ripped off"

What a tool.

If I'm not mistaken, Jasin refunded you and then you claimed to have bought more shares - but didn't prove it.

You stopped replying to Jasin's PMs.

Why don't you simply reply with proof of the money you're owed and then get refunded?

Given this, why do you continue to spread FUD instead of just doing the responsible thing?

What are your intentions here?

[rdnkjdi]

why on earth would they defend him and keep him around.

Why on earth would you attack him so persistently? You're not even a customer of his.

What the hell?  This is essentially XC's PR guy saying "Who gives a shit if he's a scammer - he didn't take YOUR money.  What's your problem"

"You have no reason to inform people that a developer is a massive fraudster if he didn't take YOUR MONEY"

Does nobody give a flying f%%% when people are ripped off thousands and just continue on their way?  The XC "team" obviously doesn't.  Not in practice - not in speech.  And this statement parades it around on massive display.

You do NOT want to be associated with these guys.

"If he didn't steal from you - you shouldn't give a sh** that other people are gonna get ripped off"

What a tool.

If I'm not mistaken, Jasin refunded you and then you claimed to have bought more shares - but didn't prove it.

You stopped replying to Jasin's PMs.

Why don't you simply reply with proof of the money you're owed and then get refunded?

Once again - not true.  You read nothing.  You say what you want to be true to try and discredit me.  I wish I'd made this thread moderatable.  

What a joke.

Is Jasin on the payroll - I didn't see that question answered.

No he has not refunded me.

Even if he had - when he pays everyone back I will shut up. 

Unlike you apparently I have no use for scammers in crypto space.  I don't want them working with me, around me, on the coin I'm invested in or anything else.

[synechist]

why on earth would they defend him and keep him around.

Why on earth would you attack him so persistently? You're not even a customer of his.

What the hell?  This is essentially XC's PR guy saying "Who gives a shit if he's a scammer - he didn't take YOUR money.  What's your problem"

"You have no reason to inform people that a developer is a massive fraudster if he didn't take YOUR MONEY"

Does nobody give a flying f%%% when people are ripped off thousands and just continue on their way?  The XC "team" obviously doesn't.  Not in practice - not in speech.  And this statement parades it around on massive display.

You do NOT want to be associated with these guys.

"If he didn't steal from you - you shouldn't give a sh** that other people are gonna get ripped off"

What a tool.

If I'm not mistaken, Jasin refunded you and then you claimed to have bought more shares - but didn't prove it.

You stopped replying to Jasin's PMs.

Why don't you simply reply with proof of the money you're owed and then get refunded?

Once again - not true.  You read nothing.  You say what you want to be true to try and discredit me.  I wish I'd made this thread moderatable.  

What a joke.

Is jasin on the payroll - I didn't see that question answered.

Well what's the truth then?

NO, for the third/fourth time.

[synechist]

Unlike you apparently I have no use for scammers in crypto space.  I don't want them working with me, around me, on the coin I'm invested in or anything else.

Perhaps you missed this post earlier:

The problem with all this is that you're on the outside with suspicions, hearsay, and scant evidence, and we're on the inside and can chat to Jasin regularly and also get a clear notion of his character and personality.


Therefore:

I DO mind working with scammers, and I have no reason whatsoever to suppose that Jasin is one.

[rdnkjdi]

Well what's the truth then?

That Jasin owes me $5,000+.  That he owes others up to $30,000+.

Please quit replying to my thread.  You are reading nothing.  That (regardless of what you say) I would have posted this if he owed me nothing.

[synechist]

Keep a written note of how many times I have to repeat myself, and then ask yourself: why is it that you're not noticing the facts that are in front of your eyes? Are your intentions/emotions getting in the way?

[rdnkjdi]

The problem with all this is that you're on the outside with suspicions, hearsay, and scant evidence, and we're on the inside and can chat to Jasin regularly and also get a clear notion of his character and personality.


Therefore:

I DO mind working with scammers, and I have no reason whatsoever to suppose that Jasin is one.

*Deep breath*

No you don't.  The threads I have linked to provide EXTREMELY heavy evidence he's a scammer - there is no "scant evidence" there.  If you work with him every day - why can he fail to answer any legit questions for two weeks to the people he owes hundreds of thousands of dollars in obligations to?

How can he promise to re-enable the website and then fail to do so?  For two weeks while he works on your project when we've paid him HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS?  If he's such a swell guy?

Keep a written note of how many times I have to repeat myself, and then ask yourself: why is it that you're not noticing the facts that are in front of your eyes? Are your intentions/emotions getting in the way?

When you basically tell people they should STFU about scammers if they individually have not been scammed then yea - I get a little angry.  

Also - you told me that Jasin didn't provide any funds for the XC project.  The second question was "Does the XC project pay Jasinlee"

[synechist]

Well what's the truth then?

That Jasin owes me $5,000+.  That he owes others up to $30,000+.

Please quit replying to my thread.  You are reading nothing.  That (regardless of what you say) I would have posted this if he owed me nothing.

Prove that he owes you $5000.

Do it here.

Otherwise your allegations are unfounded.

[rdnkjdi]

Well what's the truth then?

That Jasin owes me $5,000+.  That he owes others up to $30,000+.

Please quit replying to my thread.  You are reading nothing.  That (regardless of what you say) I would have posted this if he owed me nothing.

Prove that he owes you $5000.

Do it here.

Otherwise your allegations are unfounded.

It will require me to pull old crypsty orders, the cachecoin order I sent to him, his wife's sockpuppet account buying cache.  Which I can and will absolutely do as soon as I have access to my 2FA computer.  

You have seriously read none of those threads have you?  

Otherwise your allegations are unfounded.

For you maybe.  My audience are those who may (unwittingly) put their money in a project that has a scammer for a dev.  And PR guys who say "STFU about scammers if they didn't scam you"

Nothing I can say will convince you - ever.  You're their PR guy right?  Your JOB is to make XC look good when it looks HORRIBLE.

Of course my allegations are unfounded if I can't provide (whatever synchillis says that he thinks I don't have)

I provided the other things you ask for - so you start asking for this.  You want a list - of everybody who's asked for a refund an not gotten one?  Go read the threads I linked in the OP.  Your proof is there.

Do your research people.  These XC guys stink ... more and more.

[synechist]

Well what's the truth then?

That Jasin owes me $5,000+.  That he owes others up to $30,000+.

Please quit replying to my thread.  You are reading nothing.  That (regardless of what you say) I would have posted this if he owed me nothing.

Prove that he owes you $5000.

Do it here.

Otherwise your allegations are unfounded.

It will require me to pull old crypsty orders, the cachecoin order I sent to him, his wife's sockpuppet account buying cache.  Which I can and will absolutely do as soon as I have access to my 2FA computer.  

You have seriously read none of those threads have you?  

I've re-read those threads this evening, and read them (and several more) multiple times when this ASIC thing blew up.

What you've linked to by no means constitutes proof. Do you seriously think it does??


And yes, pull every single order and account for it all. Otherwise this is just more unethical FUD.

[rdnkjdi]

And yes, pull every single order and account for it all. Otherwise this is just more unethical FUD.

1 - Jasin promised ASICs that there is STILL no evidence exist.  And he refuses to provide it.

2 - HE promised them 2 months ago.

3 - He refuses to post in the litecoin thread

4 - It's proven that his wife was selling Cache while he was pumping it

5 - It's proven dozens of people are waiting for hundreds of thousands in refunds.

Like I said - of COURSE I cannot convince you - you're the PR guy.  Your job is to keep XC from looking bad / discredit me.

I really have no more use for you.  Anyone else who wants to ask questions I will respond to.

[csun]

Jasin has taken many people's money and has failed to deliver any sort of product.

Jasin has made excuse after excuse on why a product has not been delivered. These excuses were always obscure and meaningless. There were even a few that was just plain unbelievable.

Example of such an excuse: not providing the name of the foundry for people to verify because the company does not like crypto-currency mining and he would be taken out of the queue if the foundry found out. This does not make sense on so many levels. Why would a foundry care about the use of an ASIC as long as they're not violating export regulations? Even if the foundry did, why would one take such an unnecessary risk? There are contract terms that can protect you from a foundry deciding to pull you out of queue on the fly; are there not these sort of terms in the initial contract agreement? If not, then why?

Now in the past couple weeks, another promised deadline was missed and not one single word from Jasin. He, at this point, has all but disappeared with people's money.

These are much more than allegations. The poster of this thread has linked a forum post that spans 600+ pages, of which at least the past 100+ pages are filled with people who have had their money taken from them. There are even a number of lawsuits being filed.

[synechist]

Well what's the truth then?

That Jasin owes me $5,000+.  That he owes others up to $30,000+.

Please quit replying to my thread.  You are reading nothing.  That (regardless of what you say) I would have posted this if he owed me nothing.

Prove that he owes you $5000.

Do it here.

Otherwise your allegations are unfounded.

It will require me to pull old crypsty orders, the cachecoin order I sent to him, his wife's sockpuppet account buying cache.  Which I can and will absolutely do as soon as I have access to my 2FA computer.  

You have seriously read none of those threads have you?  

I've re-read those threads this evening, and read them (and several more) multiple times when this ASIC thing blew up.

What you've linked to by no means constitutes proof. Do you seriously think it does??


And yes, pull every single order and account for it all. Otherwise this is just more unethical FUD.

Let me spell out how I'd imagine proof to work:

Make allegations one by one.

Substantiate each allegation with specific quotations from specific posts (not entire threads), carefully reconstructing conversations where necessary and in such a way as to eliminate doubt that the allegation is untrue.

For an allegation to be free of doubt, there must be no speculation, no hearsay, no facts not stated, linked, and verified wherever necessary. The case must be plain.


What you have here could not be farther from this standard.

[synechist]

1 - Jasin promised ASICs that there is STILL no evidence exist.

2 - HE promised them 2 months ago.

3 - He refuses to post in the litecoin thread

4 - It's proven that his wife was selling Cache while he was pumping it

5 - It's proven dozens of people are waiting for hundreds of thousands in refunds.

Is that supposed to be proof?

Come on.

[synechist]

Jasin has taken many people's money and has failed to deliver any sort of product.

Jasin has made excuse after excuse on why a product has not been delivered. These excuses were always obscure and meaningless. There were even a few that was just plain unbelievable.

Example of such an excuse: not providing the name of the foundry for people to verify because the company does not like crypto-currency mining and he would be taken out of the queue if the foundry found out. This does not make sense on so many levels. Why would a foundry care about the use of an ASIC as long as they're not violating export regulations? Even if the foundry did, why would one take such an unnecessary risk? There are contract terms that can protect you from a foundry deciding to pull you out of queue on the fly; are there not these sort of terms in the initial contract agreement? If not, then why?

Now in the past couple weeks, another promised deadline was missed and not one single word from Jasin. He, at this point, has all but disappeared with people's money.

These are much more than allegations. The poster of this thread has linked a forum post that spans 600+ pages, of which at least the past 100+ pages are filled with people who have had their money taken from them. There are even a number of lawsuits being filed.

Please:
- make one allegation at a time.

- link to a specific post (or limited number of posts) that plainly establish the truth of the allegation.

- Avoid including random facts that are neither here nor there, and can be used to either defend or attack Jasin, depending on how you use them.

[rdnkjdi]

1 - Jasin promised ASICs that there is STILL no evidence exist.

2 - HE promised them 2 months ago.

3 - He refuses to post in the litecoin thread

4 - It's proven that his wife was selling Cache while he was pumping it

5 - It's proven dozens of people are waiting for hundreds of thousands in refunds.

Is that supposed to be proof?

Come on.

Dude.  The proof that he promised it?  You want me to go dig thru and quote him each time from the litecoin thread?  It's plain as day.

Each one of those points is backed up in the OP's thread.  If anyone with more than 20 posts besides synchillis asks for proof from those points I will do the work to dig up Jasin's posts and the counter posts and blah blah blah on here.

Line.  By line.  By line.

As someone in charge of defending XC who doesn't give a shit about scammers and thinks it's "unethical FUD" to call them out if they didn't scam you individually.  I have no desire to do any of synchillis legwork for him.

I posted plenty of proof in the threads of the OP.  It will turn into a massive, and I mean MASSIVE thread that will mostly be duplicated.

Anybody else interested enough to make me do the work who thinks I have not provided enough evidence (please have more than 20 posts so I know you aren't a sockpuppet) I will be MORE THAN HAPPY to do the legwork.

Please:
- make one allegation at a time.

- link to a specific post (or limited number of posts) that plainly establish the truth of the allegation.

- Avoid including random facts that are neither here nor there, and can be used to either defend or attack Jasin, depending on how you use them.

Send someone else.  You are not judge, jury and trial here.  You've a vested interest in defending Jasinlee and XC and have stated yourself that people are spreading unreasonable FUD if they don't have a personal stake in a scam.

Shut up.  Go away.  Send someone else and I'll do the painstaking legwork of spoonfeeding direct quotes from those threads.

[Teka]

Well what's the truth then?

That Jasin owes me $5,000+.  That he owes others up to $30,000+.

Please quit replying to my thread.  You are reading nothing.  That (regardless of what you say) I would have posted this if he owed me nothing.

Prove that he owes you $5000.

Do it here.

Otherwise your allegations are unfounded.

It will require me to pull old crypsty orders, the cachecoin order I sent to him, his wife's sockpuppet account buying cache.  Which I can and will absolutely do as soon as I have access to my 2FA computer.  

You have seriously read none of those threads have you?  

Otherwise your allegations are unfounded.

.  These XC guys stink ... more and more.

You have shown no evidence, you have now resorted to attacking other members of the team which is completely unacceptable.

I've been here longer then you.

I have a higher trust rating then you within the general crypto community.

I was doing trades here way before XC.

Dan was an active member of this Forum before xc as well.

Syncheist was an active member within the threads before he joined XC.

[rdnkjdi]

You have no evidence, you have now resorted to attacking other members which is completely unacceptable.

I've been here longer then you.

I have a higher trust rating then you within the general crypto community.

I was doing trades here way before XC.

Dan was an active member of this Forum before xc as well.

Syncheist was an active member within the threads before he joined XC.

I have PLENTY - every one of my BULLETED accusations can be backed up.

I agree - you do have more trust / longer rating than I do.  So did jasinlee (probably still does on the bitcoin forum.  He's been around a long time/doing trades.)  

When you say "Why do you care - he didn't take YOUR money this is pointless" then yeah.  

I care about scams when I don't lose money.  If it's related to your project - you should care too.

[Teka]

You have no evidence, you have now resorted to attacking other members which is completely unacceptable.

I've been here longer then you.

I have a higher trust rating then you within the general crypto community.

I was doing trades here way before XC.

Dan was an active member of this Forum before xc as well.

Syncheist was an active member within the threads before he joined XC.

I have PLENTY - every one of my BULLETED accusations can be backed up.

I agree - you do have more trust / longer rating than I do.  So did jasinlee (probably still does on the bitcoin forum.  He's been around a long time.)

When you say "Why do you care - he didn't take YOUR money this is pointless" then yeah.  I tend to think you are rather slimey.  

I care about scams when I don't lose money.  If it's related to your project - you should care too.

Please tell me when I said that?

My main response was that it's not my Job to defend Jasin. I'm here to defend XC hence why I have only just replied because you attacked other members.

[csun]

Well what's the truth then?

That Jasin owes me $5,000+.  That he owes others up to $30,000+.

Please quit replying to my thread.  You are reading nothing.  That (regardless of what you say) I would have posted this if he owed me nothing.

Prove that he owes you $5000.

Do it here.

Otherwise your allegations are unfounded.

It will require me to pull old crypsty orders, the cachecoin order I sent to him, his wife's sockpuppet account buying cache.  Which I can and will absolutely do as soon as I have access to my 2FA computer.  

You have seriously read none of those threads have you?  

I've re-read those threads this evening, and read them (and several more) multiple times when this ASIC thing blew up.

What you've linked to by no means constitutes proof. Do you seriously think it does??


And yes, pull every single order and account for it all. Otherwise this is just more unethical FUD.

You ask for proof then stick your fingers in your ear when pointed to the various threads. I suppose you take all of it as hearsay... hundreds of pages of posts by people with sock puppet accounts out to get Jasin?

Or are you so dense to think that these people don't have receipts of their orders and probably don't care to make sensitive information public?

This is much more than just a project blowing up. This is someone taking money for a project and failing to even produce any tangible proof that the money received was indeed going towards work of the project.

In addition to that... giving special treatment for Cachecoin on your product orders while partnered as a heavy investor/contributor to Cachecoin itself is a blatant conflict of interest. There's a reason this sort of thing is illegal for businesses in countries with regulated economies.

[rdnkjdi]

Quote from: organizer on Today at 11:01:53 PM
why on earth would they defend him and keep him around.


Why on earth would you attack him so persistently? You're not even a customer of his.

Or are you so dense to think that these people don't have receipts of their orders and probably don't care to make sensitive information public?

Interesting you mention that.  There were no email orders (according to the dozens of sockpuppets attacking jasin at litecointalk).  And we used to be able to log into fibonacci.io and look at our orders/shares.  Now we can't because it's dedicated to XCurrency.  So unless the sockpuppets took screenshots - probably no proof.  Right?

[organizer]

Is the XC braintrust implying that Jasin did not take orders on fictional asics and make statements about these asics (such as delivery, project status & performance claims), did not collect LTC, BTC and CACHE for these orders?

[synechist]

Dude.  The proof that he promised it?

No. Because not delivering is not proof that he's a scammer.

Each one of those points is backed up in the OP's thread.  If anyone with more than 20 posts besides synchillis asks for proof from those points I will do the work to dig up Jasin's posts and the counter posts and blah blah blah on here.

Who's synchillis?

doesn't give a shit about scammers

No, I explicitly stated that I would not work with scammers.

I posted plenty of proof in the threads of the OP.

You did absolutely nothing of the sort.

You just posted a pile of crap. MAKE A CASE.

 It will turn into a massive, and I mean MASSIVE thread that will mostly be duplicated.

This will only happen if your case is not tightly executed.

You... have stated yourself that people are spreading unreasonable FUD if they don't have a personal stake in a scam.

Huh? I doubt very much that you'll find even the remotest support in my post history for this claim. ;-)

Shut up.  Go away.  Send someone else and I'll do the painstaking legwork of spoonfeeding direct quotes from those threads.

No. I don't think I will go away (unless you apologise and delete this thread, of course).

[Teka]

Is the XC braintrust implying that Jasin did not take orders on fictional asics and make statements about these asics (such as delivery, project status & performance claims), did not collect LTC, BTC and CACHE for these orders?

There's no proof.  We didn't get emails.  We used to be able to login and see our orders.  Now all we see are advertisements for their coin.

You make it sound like the page has a giant xc logo on it. It mentions and old project called cryptophi that was once part of the collab between XC and Cache. It's even at the bottom of the page for crying out loud.

[organizer]

Is the XC braintrust implying that Jasin did not take orders on fictional asics and make statements about these asics (such as delivery, project status & performance claims), did not collect LTC, BTC and CACHE for these orders?

It's a pretty simple question to answer without trying to redirect into another argument.

[synechist]

This is much more than just a project blowing up. This is someone taking money for a project and failing to even produce any tangible proof that the money received was indeed going towards work of the project.

No, this is exactly what happens when a project blows up. Something goes wrong, and then sentiment turns against the project and accusations start flying.

I do PR. I'm very well aware of how quickly people perceive things to be "tangible proof" when in fact they're just misperceived half-truths and emotion.

Case in point: XC's FUDstorm at the hands of a competitor. The FUD was solidly and resoundingly repudiated (before I was part of XC), but not before most people had dumped. And they dumped because they believed they had "tangible proof" that XC was a scam. They were all wrong. The "tangible proof" (like, say items in github, etc.) turned out not to be any kind of proof, and the truth came out.

[csun]

Quote from: organizer on Today at 11:01:53 PM
why on earth would they defend him and keep him around.


Why on earth would you attack him so persistently? You're not even a customer of his.

Or are you so dense to think that these people don't have receipts of their orders and probably don't care to make sensitive information public?

Interesting you mention that.  There were no email orders (according to the dozens of sockpuppets attacking jasin at litecointalk).  And we used to be able to log into fibonacci.io and look at our orders/shares.  Now we can't because it's dedicated to XCurrency.  So unless the sockpuppets took screenshots - probably no proof.  Right?

Well that sucks  . I was around last year when the inital offering came out, but I ran when I found out my money would be going towards salaries. I've been following the discussion of the project for a while and I empathize with the people who have had their money taken. I hope this guy gets what he deserves.

[rdnkjdi]

I'll respond to Teka's questions (within reason as far as time it takes me) unless he pisses me off too.  Also I will respond to anyone from the XC thread unless they're just using wordplay and throwing up straw men by saying there is no evidence - and try to simply deflect and use word play the way synechist has.  

I have no intention of turning this into something too large to back up - I created a summary and then provided the raw evidence to back each piece up very adequately.  Which point would you like me to back up Teka?

Each of my numbered points on my latest post is very easy to verify.  The threads are linked on litecointalk.

I will no longer waste time dealing with synechist's wordplay (I would suggest others do the same)

I will repeat for anyone reading.  I WILL backup ANY ACCUSATION I have made.  But synechist is using a wordplay and trying to redirect in ways I'm not willing to waste my time and effort to deal with..  Ask in the thread - you will get answers.

[synechist]

Is the XC braintrust implying that Jasin did not take orders on fictional asics and make statements about these asics (such as delivery, project status & performance claims), did not collect LTC, BTC and CACHE for these orders?

It's a pretty simple question to answer without trying to redirect into another argument.

No, I am not implying, I am directly stating that "Jasin did not take orders on fictional asics and make statements about these asics (such as delivery, project status & performance claims), did not collect LTC, BTC and CACHE for these orders."

This is because the word "fictional" ought to be replaced with a more correct word, like "planned".

As such, I directly state that:

"Jasin did take orders on planned ASICs and made statements about these ASICs (such as delivery, project status & performance claims), and collected LTC, BTC and CACHE for these orders."


So, umm... I've stated it now. Have you thereby accomplished something?

[Teka]

I'll respond to Teka's questions (within reason as far as time it takes me) unless he pisses me off too.  Also I will respond to anyone from the XC thread unless they're just using wordplay and throwing up straw men by saying there is no evidence - and try to simply deflect and use word play the way synechist has.  

I have no intention of turning this into something too large to back up - I created a summary and then provided the raw evidence to back each piece up very adequately.  Which point would you like me to back up Teka?

Each of my numbered points on my latest post is very easy to verify.  The threads are linked on litecointalk.

I will no longer waste time dealing with synechist's wordplay (I would suggest others do the same)

I would like you to stop attacking other XC team members and XC directly. Also, if you can change the thread title to mention just Jasin names and that's only because current title make it sounds like he's a CORE dev. As I said, I won't comment and its not my job to comment on the work that Jasin does outside of XC. I've only responded when XC has been attacked directly or core team members. The core values of XC have never changed, we are still here to build a platform. Myself and other team members such as Synchesits are working crazy hours to get XC to where it needs to be.

[synechist]

I object to this assertion that I'm using "wordplay".

What I am doing is asserting that:

- you're making serious allegations

- which would need proof if you want to avoid being very unethical

- and proof has not been even remotely provided here.


Since you're mounting a case, the burden of proof is on you.

I've been helpful enough to indicate earlier what would amount to sufficient proof for your case.

Now go get some proof.

[rdnkjdi]

I would like you to stop attacking other XC team members

This thread was meant as a warning.  Not an "attack on XC".  People should invest elsewhere if Jasin is heavily involved in this project which he is.  

My statements about you guys being slimey was when you started telling organizer he had no business attacking jasin if he didn't get scammed.  I'll go back thru and try to pull out everything.

I stand by my wordplay deal with the other guy.  And my slimy statement (this is an opinion and not something that can be backed with fact)  I think he's slimy.  I don't want to deal with it.

If there are others too lazy to reference the threads that prove my points to be fact than I will be happy to answer questions for them.  I'm not wasting my time with wordplay.

if you can change the thread title to mention just Jasin names and that's only because current title make it sounds like he's a CORE dev.

I will mention his name and say a developer.  Also I don't think he's a developer for cache although heavily involved so I'll make it accurate.  Does current title look ok?

[Teka]

I would like you to stop attacking other XC team members

This thread was meant as a warning.  Not an "attack on XC".  People should invest elsewhere if Jasin is heavily involved in this project which he is.  

To me personally, some of your comments such as 'I tend to think you are rather slimey.' came across as a personal attack on team members and this entire thread has come across as an attack on XC.

Also Jasin shares cool ideas with us yes, but the current core devs are Dan and other coders mentioned on the site.

[rdnkjdi]

Is the XC braintrust implying that Jasin did not take orders on fictional asics and make statements about these asics (such as delivery, project status & performance claims), did not collect LTC, BTC and CACHE for these orders?

There's no proof.  We didn't get emails.  We used to be able to login and see our orders.  Now all we see are advertisements for their coin.

You make it sound like the page has a giant xc logo on it. It mentions and old project called cryptophi that was once part of the collab between XC and Cache. It's even at the bottom of the page for crying out loud.

The thing is - Jasin is selling cryptophi as one third of the page he used to have where we logged in for our pre-orders.  It might be old news to you guys.  It's what we see EVERY TIME we go to check on orders that mount into the tens of thousands of dollars.

That it's "old news" is not exactly what we want to hear.  I assume he used it for filler?  The fact remains - it links XC and Fibonacci and Jasin all together extremely tightly.  Which even you've admitted to.  

While you may see it as an attack on XC.  I see it as a warning about the type of developers XC is happy to keep on their team, defend, support and be supported by.  Names are EVERYTHING in crypto.  People WILL lose money on XC if Jasin is involved.  I can almost garuntee it.  

Most people didn't have a clue about him using innerchains on both coins.  Most people don't know anything about cachecoin, or that he owns half of it, or that he plans on putting the features (albiet the technical underlying code may be different) that are in XC into cachecoin.

My warning about him being a scammer is a testament to his character.  If it's not cachecoin it'll be something else.  But where Jasin goes people WILL lose money and they WILL be left holding the bag.

You may view it as an attack.  I view it as a warning.

I tried to remove slimy reference in the dialog (think I got them all - I was accused of having no reading comprehension so negative comments go both ways).  I'll take out any other derogatory references you would like.  

Also Jasin shares cool ideas with us yes, but the current core devs are Dan and other coders mentioned on the site.

Your chat thread is talking about taking him on full time ... or mentioning it.

[synechist]

Organiser persists in systematically hounding Jasin and spreading any negative sentiment he finds about him.

Yet Organiser was never a customer of Jasin's.

Now if it were the case that Organiser has proof that Jasin is a scammer, Organiser's actions would be justified.

But if it were not the case that Organiser has proof that Jasin is a scammer, Organiser's actions would be manifestly awful and brutal.


Since the facts presented here and in the other threads are inconclusive at best, and since Organiser has not had opportunity to engage in a refund process with Jasin, he lacks the crucial evidence needed to assert that Jasin is a scammer.

Therefore Organiser is brutally unethical.



THIS is what I implied earlier when I questioned Organiser's motives. I did NOT imply that I don't care about fighting scammers.

[Teka]

Is the XC braintrust implying that Jasin did not take orders on fictional asics and make statements about these asics (such as delivery, project status & performance claims), did not collect LTC, BTC and CACHE for these orders?

There's no proof.  We didn't get emails.  We used to be able to login and see our orders.  Now all we see are advertisements for their coin.

You make it sound like the page has a giant xc logo on it. It mentions and old project called cryptophi that was once part of the collab between XC and Cache. It's even at the bottom of the page for crying out loud.

The thing is - Jasin is selling cryptophi as one third of the page he used to have where we logged in for our pre-orders.  It might be old news to you guys.  It's what we see EVERY TIME we go to check on orders that mount into the tens of thousands of dollars.

That it's "old news" is not exactly what we want to hear.  I assume he used it for filler?  The fact remains - it links XC and Fibonacci and Jasin all together extremely tightly.  Which even you've admitted to.  

While you may see it as an attack on XC.  I see it as a warning about the type of developers XC is happy to keep on their team, defend, support and be supported by.  Names are EVERYTHING in crypto.  People WILL lose money on XC if Jasin is involved.  I can almost garuntee it.  

Most people didn't have a clue about him using innerchains on both coins.  Most people don't know anything about cachecoin, or that he owns half of it, or that he plans on putting the features (albiet the technical underlying code may be different) that are in XC into cachecoin.

My warning about him being a scammer is a testament to his character.  If it's not cachecoin it'll be something else.  But where Jasin goes people WILL lose money and they WILL be left holding the bag.

You may view it as an attack.  I view it as a warning.

I would just like to get a few things straight first:

- You can not guarantee that people will loose many because Jasin is involved
         - Our core community is aware of this situation and has expressed their opinon, none of them have dumped or a dumping because of Jasin.

- Jasin's involvement with cachecoin was public

- Blockchain 2.0 and POBOC ('Interchains') was public and we released that we will be working with Cache on this

- Anon features were a part of Cache, we addressed the fact that the implementation was different. We never tried to hide the fact that Cache had Anon features. In fact we even discussed it with members.

- This means that most people knew about nearly every detail of cache and the collab with XC

- You cannot prove that Jasin is stealing any code which I really don't think he is. As you said this your gut feeling.

[csun]

This is much more than just a project blowing up. This is someone taking money for a project and failing to even produce any tangible proof that the money received was indeed going towards work of the project.

No, this is exactly what happens when a project blows up. Something goes wrong, and then sentiment turns against the project and accusations start flying.

I do PR. I'm very well aware of how quickly people perceive things to be "tangible proof" when in fact they're just misperceived half-truths and emotion.

Case in point: XC's FUDstorm at the hands of a competitor. The FUD was solidly and resoundingly repudiated (before I was part of XC), but not before most people had dumped. And they dumped because they believed they had "tangible proof" that XC was a scam. They were all wrong. The "tangible proof" (like, say items in github, etc.) turned out not to be any kind of proof, and the truth came out.

Oh please stop with the mis-direction.

First:
When a project blows up, sentiments and accusations start flying in addition to valid complaints.

You're just sweeping everything said here as false accusations when in fact:

1. Money was taken for a product.
2. Said product was not delivered.
3. Requests for explanations are met with nebulous / non-verifiable excuses.
3. An entire website filled with data on customer orders was taken down and has not been put back up well after the promised date.
4. No explanations are offered for the delay.
5. Jasin has not answered any further questions and has been MIA for the past week and a half.

Second
You're trying to confound the meaning of tangible proof and the use case. Your example is the use of fabricated proof to attempt to back an accusation. In this case tangible proof constitutes verifiable proof to prove a point; that work was done. Again, the refusal to allow someone to contact a foundry to verify dealings with Fibonaci is a red flag.

[crimealone]

why on earth would they defend him and keep him around.

Why on earth would you attack him so persistently? You're not even a customer of his.

What the hell?  This is essentially XC's PR guy saying "Who gives a shit if he's a scammer - he didn't take YOUR money.  What's your problem"

"You have no reason to inform people that a developer is a massive fraudster if he didn't take YOUR MONEY"

Does nobody give a flying f%%% when people are ripped off thousands and just continue on their way?  The XC "team" obviously doesn't.  Not in practice - not in speech.  And this statement parades it around on massive display.

You do NOT want to be associated with these guys.

"If he didn't steal from you - you shouldn't give a sh** that other people are gonna get ripped off"

What a tool.

If I'm not mistaken, Jasin refunded you and then you claimed to have bought more shares - but didn't prove it.

You stopped replying to Jasin's PMs.

Why don't you simply reply with proof of the money you're owed and then get refunded?

Given this, why do you continue to spread FUD instead of just doing the responsible thing?

What are your intentions here?

Why people like you always call everything "FUD"??

[synechist]

This is much more than just a project blowing up. This is someone taking money for a project and failing to even produce any tangible proof that the money received was indeed going towards work of the project.

No, this is exactly what happens when a project blows up. Something goes wrong, and then sentiment turns against the project and accusations start flying.

I do PR. I'm very well aware of how quickly people perceive things to be "tangible proof" when in fact they're just misperceived half-truths and emotion.

Case in point: XC's FUDstorm at the hands of a competitor. The FUD was solidly and resoundingly repudiated (before I was part of XC), but not before most people had dumped. And they dumped because they believed they had "tangible proof" that XC was a scam. They were all wrong. The "tangible proof" (like, say items in github, etc.) turned out not to be any kind of proof, and the truth came out.

Oh please stop with the mis-direction.

First:
When a project blows up, sentiments and accusations start flying in addition to valid complaints.

You're just sweeping everything said here as false accusations when in fact:

1. Money was taken for a product.
2. Said product was not delivered.
3. Requests for explanations are met with nebulous / non-verifiable excuses.
3. An entire website filled with data on customer orders was taken down and has not been put back up well after the promised date.
4. No explanations are offered for the delay.
5. Jasin has not answered any further questions and has been MIA for the past week and a half.

Second
You're trying to confound the meaning of tangible proof and the use case. Your example is the use of fabricated proof to attempt to back an accusation. In this case tangible proof constitutes verifiable proof to prove a point; that work was done. Again, the refusal to allow someone to contact a foundry to verify dealings with Fibonaci is a red flag.

I would agree that you have red flags.

I disagree that you have any kind of proof that Jasin is a scammer.


Since allegations of scamming are very serious and highly damaging, they should not be made lightly or without proof.

Therefore, do not accuse Jasin of being a scammer. It's profoundly unethical.

[synechist]

Why people like you always call everything "FUD"??

Here's why:

"FUD" stands for "fear, uncertainty, and doubt".

What's been propagated in this thread is wilfully unsubstantiated claims of a very serious nature about Jasin.

Their effect is to produce fear, uncertainty, and doubt about Jasin, XC, Cache, etc.

Since they're unsubstantiated and therefore cannot be properly called facts, they're simply "FUD."




(Now what does this tell you about the kind of person I am?)

[rdnkjdi]

I disagree that you have any kind of proof that Jasin is a scammer.

You are not welcome to respond to this.  Even though clowns of your caliber can't keep from it.

A - Person says "Cachecoin is worth .01 bitcoin if you order my ASIC"

B - Person sells their cachecoin they mined months before to you to buy their ASIC using their wife's account.

C - Person has no evidence they ever had an ASIC because the foundry would "cancel the order if they knew it was going to be used for cryptocurrency"

D - Person disabled their website and used it promoted XC

E - Person offers you discount (in cachecoin) that is now worth 0.2% of what it was.

F - Person "runs out of refund money" for people who paid in bitcoin and litecoin.

This is the calliber "red flag" we are talking about for those thinking about investing in XC.

[csun]

This is much more than just a project blowing up. This is someone taking money for a project and failing to even produce any tangible proof that the money received was indeed going towards work of the project.

No, this is exactly what happens when a project blows up. Something goes wrong, and then sentiment turns against the project and accusations start flying.

I do PR. I'm very well aware of how quickly people perceive things to be "tangible proof" when in fact they're just misperceived half-truths and emotion.

Case in point: XC's FUDstorm at the hands of a competitor. The FUD was solidly and resoundingly repudiated (before I was part of XC), but not before most people had dumped. And they dumped because they believed they had "tangible proof" that XC was a scam. They were all wrong. The "tangible proof" (like, say items in github, etc.) turned out not to be any kind of proof, and the truth came out.

Oh please stop with the mis-direction.

First:
When a project blows up, sentiments and accusations start flying in addition to valid complaints.

You're just sweeping everything said here as false accusations when in fact:

1. Money was taken for a product.
2. Said product was not delivered.
3. Requests for explanations are met with nebulous / non-verifiable excuses.
3. An entire website filled with data on customer orders was taken down and has not been put back up well after the promised date.
4. No explanations are offered for the delay.
5. Jasin has not answered any further questions and has been MIA for the past week and a half.

Second
You're trying to confound the meaning of tangible proof and the use case. Your example is the use of fabricated proof to attempt to back an accusation. In this case tangible proof constitutes verifiable proof to prove a point; that work was done. Again, the refusal to allow someone to contact a foundry to verify dealings with Fibonaci is a red flag.

I would agree that you have red flags.

I disagree that you have any kind of proof that Jasin is a scammer.


Since allegations of scamming are very serious and highly damaging, they should not be made lightly or without proof.

Therefore, do not accuse Jasin of being a scammer. It's profoundly unethical.

In all courts: taking people's money, failing to deliver a product, failing to prove that you've taken steps to try to fulfill contractual obligations, and destruction or concealment of financial records would very much scream scam.

Again, perhaps you would like to address the hundreds of pages in the threads on failure to do any of what was mentioned above as pure hearsay? That everyone is just out to get Jasin?

[Teka]

This is much more than just a project blowing up. This is someone taking money for a project and failing to even produce any tangible proof that the money received was indeed going towards work of the project.

No, this is exactly what happens when a project blows up. Something goes wrong, and then sentiment turns against the project and accusations start flying.

I do PR. I'm very well aware of how quickly people perceive things to be "tangible proof" when in fact they're just misperceived half-truths and emotion.

Case in point: XC's FUDstorm at the hands of a competitor. The FUD was solidly and resoundingly repudiated (before I was part of XC), but not before most people had dumped. And they dumped because they believed they had "tangible proof" that XC was a scam. They were all wrong. The "tangible proof" (like, say items in github, etc.) turned out not to be any kind of proof, and the truth came out.

Oh please stop with the mis-direction.

First:
When a project blows up, sentiments and accusations start flying in addition to valid complaints.

You're just sweeping everything said here as false accusations when in fact:

1. Money was taken for a product.
2. Said product was not delivered.
3. Requests for explanations are met with nebulous / non-verifiable excuses.
3. An entire website filled with data on customer orders was taken down and has not been put back up well after the promised date.
4. No explanations are offered for the delay.
5. Jasin has not answered any further questions and has been MIA for the past week and a half.

Second
You're trying to confound the meaning of tangible proof and the use case. Your example is the use of fabricated proof to attempt to back an accusation. In this case tangible proof constitutes verifiable proof to prove a point; that work was done. Again, the refusal to allow someone to contact a foundry to verify dealings with Fibonaci is a red flag.

I would agree that you have red flags.

I disagree that you have any kind of proof that Jasin is a scammer.


Since allegations of scamming are very serious and highly damaging, they should not be made lightly or without proof.

Therefore, do not accuse Jasin of being a scammer. It's profoundly unethical.

In all courts: taking people's money, failing to deliver a product, failing to prove that you've taken steps to try to fulfill contractual obligations, and destruction or concealment of financial records would very much scream scam.

Again, perhaps you would like to address the hundreds of pages in the threads on failure to do any of what was mentioned above as pure hearsay? That everyone is just out to get Jasin?

In that case, stop attacking xc members and xc itself and battle Jasin in court.

[csun]

Why people like you always call everything "FUD"??

Here's why:

"FUD" stands for "fear, uncertainty, and doubt".

What's been propagated in this thread is wilfully unsubstantiated claims of a very serious nature about Jasin.

Their effect is to produce fear, uncertainty, and doubt about Jasin, XC, Cache, etc.

Since they're unsubstantiated and therefore cannot be properly called facts, they're simply "FUD."

(Now what does this tell you about the kind of person I am?)

Facts:

-Hundreds of pages of complaints of posts from forum members who have not received what was promised for their payment.
-Members who are voicing their complaints have wide range of registration dates, posting patterns and times.
-Jasin has not posted a response in the thread in a week and a half since his last post.
-Site that had all of users orders is no longer available.

FUD:
You are either very naive, stupid, or being paid very well. Take your pick.

[synechist]

I disagree that you have any kind of proof that Jasin is a scammer.

You are not welcome to respond to this.  Even though clowns of your caliber can't keep from it.

A - Person says "Cachecoin is worth .01 bitcoin if you order my ASIC"

Well, did you agree? If you thought Cachecoin was worth more, why pay? If you thought it was worth less, then that's a great deal.

B - Person sells their cachecoin they mined months before to you to buy their ASIC using their wife's account.

Jasin directly sold YOU cachecoin? Or did you buy it on an exchange?

C - Person has no evidence they ever had an ASIC because the foundry would "cancel the order if they knew it was going to be used for cryptocurrency"

Jasin is not obligated to supply such evidence, and not supplying it does not constitute fraud. So you should delete this line.

D - Person disabled their website and used it promoted XC

So? How does this pertain to a scam in any way? I think you should delete this line too.

E - Person offers you discount (in cachecoin) that is now worth 0.2% of what it was.

Then why the hell did you pay using a volatile currency? It would be completely unreasonable to expect anyone to refund you some other amount than the one you paid. He even offered you a discount.

F - Person "runs out of refund money" for people who paid in bitcoin and litecoin.

Because a coder of his stole the wallets... yes I know the facts. It's pretty rough all round.

This is the calliber "red flag" we are talking about for those thinking about investing in XC.  The currency now promoted on the site that took all of our orders.

All this stuff simply evaporates into thin air when you take off your scam-accusing lenses, as I've hoped to show here.

The truth is that Jasin's ASIC project got into trouble, and he's doing all he can to straighten out the mess. You scam-accusers are making things harder for everybody.

[organizer]

Organiser persists in systematically hounding Jasin and spreading any negative sentiment he finds about him.

Yet Organiser was never a customer of Jasin's.

Now if it were the case that Organiser has proof that Jasin is a scammer, Organiser's actions would be justified.

But if it were not the case that Organiser has proof that Jasin is a scammer, Organiser's actions would be manifestly awful and brutal.

Since the facts presented here and in the other threads are inconclusive at best, and since Organiser has not had opportunity to engage in a refund process with Jasin, he lacks the crucial evidence needed to assert that Jasin is a scammer.

Therefore Organiser is brutally unethical.

Oh shit! You sir, are a gem!

You do realize you are just narrowly defining "proof" as how you see fit and then judging it as invalid by a personal standard that cannot ever be met because whether you want to admit it or not, your perception of the situation is incredibly biased. But as an intellectual, you'd never admit to something like that.

If you have indeed read the entire Fib post and have no suspicion of fraud happening, well there's really no point in engaging in your hobby of arguing with people online.

Who knows... maybe I am a customer... maybe I was a customer... maybe I got a refund... maybe i'm involved with a pending lawsuit... maybe i'm just mad... none of those discount me from being involved, just because you say so...

 

[synechist]

-Hundreds of pages of complaints of posts from forum members who have not received what was promised for their payment.

a) XC had hundreds of pages of FUD.
b) Delayed payment does not constitute a scam.

-Members who are voicing their complaints have wide range of registration dates, posting patterns and times.

Yes, I believe that the majority of these are legitimate.

Nobody disputes that Jasin's project got into a mess.

-Jasin has not posted a response in the thread in a week and a half since his last post.

The reason for this is personal. Therefore unfortunately I cannot disclose it. But his silence by no means constitutes an abandonment of the ASIC project.

You are either very naive, stupid, or being paid very well. Take your pick.

I'll take the third option. That would be sweet.

[synechist]

you are just narrowly defining "proof" as how you see fit and then judging it as invalid

Yes I am.

This is why:

Accusing people of scamming is a serious and highly damaging thing.

It should not be done lightly or without proof.

[organizer]

Why people like you always call everything "FUD"??

Because it doesn't fit the narrative he wants. So he continues to have these childish wordplay sessions thinking he's being effective but doesn't see how it objectively looks.

[synechist]

Why people like you always call everything "FUD"??

childish wordplay sessions

To denigrate my posts without saying why they are "childish wordplay" is to not substantiate your claim.

Do you guys have problems with substantiating by any chance?

[csun]

This is much more than just a project blowing up. This is someone taking money for a project and failing to even produce any tangible proof that the money received was indeed going towards work of the project.

No, this is exactly what happens when a project blows up. Something goes wrong, and then sentiment turns against the project and accusations start flying.

I do PR. I'm very well aware of how quickly people perceive things to be "tangible proof" when in fact they're just misperceived half-truths and emotion.

Case in point: XC's FUDstorm at the hands of a competitor. The FUD was solidly and resoundingly repudiated (before I was part of XC), but not before most people had dumped. And they dumped because they believed they had "tangible proof" that XC was a scam. They were all wrong. The "tangible proof" (like, say items in github, etc.) turned out not to be any kind of proof, and the truth came out.

Oh please stop with the mis-direction.

First:
When a project blows up, sentiments and accusations start flying in addition to valid complaints.

You're just sweeping everything said here as false accusations when in fact:

1. Money was taken for a product.
2. Said product was not delivered.
3. Requests for explanations are met with nebulous / non-verifiable excuses.
3. An entire website filled with data on customer orders was taken down and has not been put back up well after the promised date.
4. No explanations are offered for the delay.
5. Jasin has not answered any further questions and has been MIA for the past week and a half.

Second
You're trying to confound the meaning of tangible proof and the use case. Your example is the use of fabricated proof to attempt to back an accusation. In this case tangible proof constitutes verifiable proof to prove a point; that work was done. Again, the refusal to allow someone to contact a foundry to verify dealings with Fibonaci is a red flag.

I would agree that you have red flags.

I disagree that you have any kind of proof that Jasin is a scammer.


Since allegations of scamming are very serious and highly damaging, they should not be made lightly or without proof.

Therefore, do not accuse Jasin of being a scammer. It's profoundly unethical.

In all courts: taking people's money, failing to deliver a product, failing to prove that you've taken steps to try to fulfill contractual obligations, and destruction or concealment of financial records would very much scream scam.

Again, perhaps you would like to address the hundreds of pages in the threads on failure to do any of what was mentioned above as pure hearsay? That everyone is just out to get Jasin?

In that case, stop attacking xc members and xc itself and battle Jasin in court.

Perhaps you can point to a direct quote where I am attacking XC members and XC?

Other than the one sentence of "FUD: You are either very naive, stupid, or being paid very well. Take your pick." because some bloke is wasting my time by posting illogical arguments and parroting back the same invalid arguments over and over? But really it's more of a satire.

Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else? Or perhaps a bit of a Freudian slip?

I only chimed in because someone here is insistent that Jasin is not scamming people. That he took money from imaginary people, and that hundreds of pages of posts is not substantive.

Perhaps the title of the thread wasn't the most subtle approach, but you as a PR person should probably know why major companies tend to distance themselves from prominent employees that get involved in scandals?

[organizer]

Do you guys have problems with substantiating by any chance?

You're really not as good at this as you think you are.

[Teka]

This is much more than just a project blowing up. This is someone taking money for a project and failing to even produce any tangible proof that the money received was indeed going towards work of the project.

No, this is exactly what happens when a project blows up. Something goes wrong, and then sentiment turns against the project and accusations start flying.

I do PR. I'm very well aware of how quickly people perceive things to be "tangible proof" when in fact they're just misperceived half-truths and emotion.

Case in point: XC's FUDstorm at the hands of a competitor. The FUD was solidly and resoundingly repudiated (before I was part of XC), but not before most people had dumped. And they dumped because they believed they had "tangible proof" that XC was a scam. They were all wrong. The "tangible proof" (like, say items in github, etc.) turned out not to be any kind of proof, and the truth came out.

Oh please stop with the mis-direction.

First:
When a project blows up, sentiments and accusations start flying in addition to valid complaints.

You're just sweeping everything said here as false accusations when in fact:

1. Money was taken for a product.
2. Said product was not delivered.
3. Requests for explanations are met with nebulous / non-verifiable excuses.
3. An entire website filled with data on customer orders was taken down and has not been put back up well after the promised date.
4. No explanations are offered for the delay.
5. Jasin has not answered any further questions and has been MIA for the past week and a half.

Second
You're trying to confound the meaning of tangible proof and the use case. Your example is the use of fabricated proof to attempt to back an accusation. In this case tangible proof constitutes verifiable proof to prove a point; that work was done. Again, the refusal to allow someone to contact a foundry to verify dealings with Fibonaci is a red flag.

I would agree that you have red flags.

I disagree that you have any kind of proof that Jasin is a scammer.


Since allegations of scamming are very serious and highly damaging, they should not be made lightly or without proof.

Therefore, do not accuse Jasin of being a scammer. It's profoundly unethical.

In all courts: taking people's money, failing to deliver a product, failing to prove that you've taken steps to try to fulfill contractual obligations, and destruction or concealment of financial records would very much scream scam.

Again, perhaps you would like to address the hundreds of pages in the threads on failure to do any of what was mentioned above as pure hearsay? That everyone is just out to get Jasin?

In that case, stop attacking xc members and xc itself and battle Jasin in court.

Perhaps you can point to a direct quote where I am attacking XC members and XC?

Other than the one sentence of "FUD: You are either very naive, stupid, or being paid very well. Take your pick." because some bloke is wasting my time by posting illogical arguments and parroting back the same invalid arguments over and over? But really it's more of a satire.

Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else? Or perhaps a bit of a Freudian slip?

I only chimed in because someone here is insistent that Jasin is not scamming people. That he took money from imaginary people, and that hundreds of pages of posts is not substantive.

Perhaps the title of the thread wasn't the most subtle approach, but you as a PR person should probably know why major companies tend to distance themselves from prominent employees that get involved in scandals?

Sorry, I should have specified that as being general advice to everyone.

[rdnkjdi]

Because a coder of his stole the wallets... yes I know the facts. It's pretty rough all round.

You have not read the threads.  According to Jasin all funds were returned to him.

While I can appreciate your wordplay and your interest in defending jasinlee.  If I was an objective investor your replies would scare me off even if the OP did not.

For any others wanting clarification or proof who don't want to read the links I provided post here.  Responses to synchillis are pretty pointless as I'm sure you can tell.

[synechist]

I only chimed in because someone here is insistent that Jasin ... took money from imaginary people, and that hundreds of pages of posts is not substantive.

No, Jasin took money from real people. That's perfectly clear.

And then his project got into a mess.

And now he's slowly straightening it out.

[synechist]

Because a coder of his stole the wallets... yes I know the facts. It's pretty rough all round.

You have not read the threads.  According to Jasin all funds were returned to him.

So... because I assert that a coder of his stole the wallets, you conclude that I'm not aware that the funds were returned? Ha ha.

#reasoningskills

While I can appreciate your wordplay and your interest in defending jasinlee.  If I was an objective investor your replies would scare me off even if the OP did not.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. That's not your concern though.

For any others wanting clarification or proof who don't want to read the links I provided post here.  Responses to synchillis are pretty pointless as I'm sure you can tell.

Who's synchillis?

[synechist]

Do you guys have problems with substantiating by any chance?

You're really not as good at this as you think you are.

Perhaps, but if the best you guys can do is call my posts "wordplay", you've got nothing.

If you had a case for Jasin being a scammer, it would be pretty simple to establish. Why? Because you'd have proof, and proof is a pretty simple thing.

What you really have here is a long story that amounts to nothing.

[organizer]

While you want to defend it as a mismanaged project, that's fine and good if it helps you sleep at night and serves your cause.

As far as whether it's a scam or not, I actually say it's no scam, it's fraud. Most legal definitions say it's some sort of intentional misrepresentation of fact or concealing information from someone who is relying on truthful information and is harmed by that action.

Are you honestly saying you've read through all of the Fibonacci thread and say those conditions aren't meant when reading through Jasin's own posts, especially those leading up to the "big updates", his subsequent disappearance and then the mystery theft? Well, you know you're being dishonest with us and yourself.

You rely on what Jasin tells you as the truth. Would you not admit that he might be not telling you the truth? What if that was the case?

But, i give you credit by trying to distract the discussion by labelling me as BRUTALLY UNETHICAL... I really will cherish that one.

[csun]

-Hundreds of pages of complaints of posts from forum members who have not received what was promised for their payment.

a) XC had hundreds of pages of FUD.
b) Delayed payment does not constitute a scam.

-Members who are voicing their complaints have wide range of registration dates, posting patterns and times.

Yes, I believe that the majority of these are legitimate.

Nobody disputes that Jasin's project got into a mess.

-Jasin has not posted a response in the thread in a week and a half since his last post.

The reason for this is personal. Therefore unfortunately I cannot disclose it. But his silence by no means constitutes an abandonment of the ASIC project.

You are either very naive, stupid, or being paid very well. Take your pick.

I'll take the third option. That would be sweet.

a) But we're not talking about XC are we? I know it's a set of experience you draw on, but I have my own set of experiences I draw on as well. Which leads to the next point...
b) Delayed payment alone does not constitute a scam. Perpetual delayed payment, with non-verifiable excuses, followed by the removal/concealment of financial transaction history (i.e. Fibonacci.io database), and zero responsiveness of the person with all the money most certainly smells like a scam.

If Jasin is truly unable to respond due to a personal issue, then it's advisable that he communicates it. Either himself, or through someone else. I am sure he is aware of the anxiousness of the people who's money he has and he is only inviting more trouble for himself by waiting.

[rdnkjdi]

I'll let you have the last word in the previous exchange and will update the OP with a summary of your defense of jasinlee, definition of what a scam is, etc when I get a chance and am no longer on my phone.

Teka you are more than welcome to give input on if I miss represent the summarized content of XC reply to my accusations.  

Edit: just realized I did not change the title as you asked.  See if the current one is something you feel is more accurate

[synechist]

While you want to defend it as a mismanaged project, that's fine and good if it helps you sleep at night and serves your cause.

As far as whether it's a scam or not, I actually say it's no scam, it's fraud. Most legal definitions say it's some sort of intentional misrepresentation of fact or concealing information from someone who is relying on truthful information and is harmed by that action.

Are you honestly saying you've read through all of the Fibonacci thread and say those conditions aren't meant when reading through Jasin's own posts, especially those leading up to the "big updates", his subsequent disappearance and then the mystery theft? Well, you know you're being dishonest with us and yourself.

You rely on what Jasin tells you as the truth. Would you not admit that he might be not telling you the truth? What if that was the case?

But, i give you credit by trying to distract the discussion by labelling me as BRUTALLY UNETHICAL... I really will cherish that one.

That's somewhat refreshing to hear. Among Jasin's actions, which one(s) specifically constitute fraud?

I have not read the entire Fibonacci thread. I have read long parts of it (and several other threads) pertaining to when things went wrong.

I am not relying on what Jasin tells me as the truth. I am simply refraining from declaring "scam" upon manifestly insufficient evidence.

In my opinion the reasonable and ethical course of action is to remain in civil (and non-accusatory) communication with Jasin as he resolves the problems.

I cannot see you actions (that is, persistent hounding of him) as anything other than brutally unethical.

[synechist]

I'll let you have the last word in the previous exchange and will update the OP with a summary of your defense of jasinlee, definition of what a scam is, etc when I get a chance and am no longer on my phone.

Teka you are more than welcome to give input on if I miss represent the summarized content of XC reply to my accusations.  

Thank you. Much appreciated.

Please remove XC from the thread's title, and also the word "scammer" and anything to do with scamming.

[synechist]

most certainly smells like a scam.

If Jasin is truly unable to respond due to a personal issue, then it's advisable that he communicates it. Either himself, or through someone else.

Excellent post. This is constructive.

"Smells like a scam" is the most truthful representation of your perspective we've had so far. If I didn't know Jasin and was coming from your perspective I'd say the same thing.

Yet "smelling like a scam" is worlds away from being shown to be a scam.

That's the crucial fact here. This thread accuses Jasin of being a scammer. This is manifestly unjustified.



As for Jasin being unable to respond, well, you've now heard from me. You're very welcome to calm others' nerves by spreading the word as to the reason for his silence.

[rdnkjdi]

I'll let you have the last word in the previous exchange and will update the OP with a summary of your defense of jasinlee, definition of what a scam is, etc when I get a chance and am no longer on my phone.

Teka you are more than welcome to give input on if I miss represent the summarized content of XC reply to my accusations.  

Thank you. Much appreciated.

Please remove XC from the thread's title, and also the word "scammer" and anything to do with scamming.

Removed scam terminology to be more accurate.

Is jasin a developer for XC?   I choose to leave the OP as accurate and fair as I possibly can.  I will interface with teka if he/she so desires.  You are welcome to carry on your word games with others if they wish to entertain you.

[organizer]

That's somewhat refreshing to hear. Among Jasin's actions, which one(s) specifically constitute fraud?

I have not read the entire Fibonacci thread. I have read long parts of it (and several other threads) pertaining to when things went wrong.

I am not relying on what Jasin tells me as the truth. I am simply refraining from declaring "scam" upon manifestly insufficient evidence.

In my opinion the reasonable and ethical course of action is to remain in civil (and non-accusatory) communication with Jasin as he resolves the problems.

I cannot see you actions (that is, persistent hounding of him) as anything other than brutally unethical.

You do realize fraud is worse than scam, don't you?

Nah, you just admitted to actually not reading the whole story, even though this has come up in XC threads multiple times. Just a tip, your response many months ago should have been:

"I take all accusations seriously and will be reviewing the entire situation and then discussing it with Dan & the team" and actually done that. But instead you've just chosen this filibuster route without being informed.

My time with you is done...

[synechist]

I'll let you have the last word in the previous exchange and will update the OP with a summary of your defense of jasinlee, definition of what a scam is, etc when I get a chance and am no longer on my phone.

Teka you are more than welcome to give input on if I miss represent the summarized content of XC reply to my accusations.  

Thank you. Much appreciated.

Please remove XC from the thread's title, and also the word "scammer" and anything to do with scamming.

Removed scam terminology to be more accurate.

Is jasin a developer for XC?   I choose to leave the OP as accurate and fair as I possibly can.  I will interface with teka if he/she so desires.  You are welcome to carry on your word games with others if they wish to entertain you.

As you might see from the website, Jasin is no longer listed as a team member in an official capacity. So, no.

On the other hand we are regularly in touch with him, he contributes to discussions over Skype, and we continue to have every expectation that his ASIC problems will be resolved in due course.

So please remove the word "XC" from the title. After all, why is there a good reason to target XC here?

[Teka]

I'll let you have the last word in the previous exchange and will update the OP with a summary of your defense of jasinlee, definition of what a scam is, etc when I get a chance and am no longer on my phone.

Teka you are more than welcome to give input on if I miss represent the summarized content of XC reply to my accusations.  

Edit: just realized I did not change the title as you asked.  See if the current one is something you feel is more accurate

This caught my eye: 'The devs claim that all the features that exist in XC that are going to Cachecoin will be redeveloped by Jasin.'

Cache had planned Anon before we were in collab with them. None of their Anon features have anything to do with XC even though they seem similar. Cache will only share POBC with XC and even that plan is in very early stages.

I also would like you to remove any attacks against xc like ' Don't walk but RUN from XC ' .

I'm more than happy for you to even move this thread to scam accusations if you want but I think XC shouldn't be targeted. After all, you claim that the financial loss you suffered was with Jasin not XC so therefore you shouldn't focus on XC.

[synechist]

That's somewhat refreshing to hear. Among Jasin's actions, which one(s) specifically constitute fraud?

I have not read the entire Fibonacci thread. I have read long parts of it (and several other threads) pertaining to when things went wrong.

I am not relying on what Jasin tells me as the truth. I am simply refraining from declaring "scam" upon manifestly insufficient evidence.

In my opinion the reasonable and ethical course of action is to remain in civil (and non-accusatory) communication with Jasin as he resolves the problems.

I cannot see you actions (that is, persistent hounding of him) as anything other than brutally unethical.

You do realize fraud is worse than scam, don't you?

Uh, both are awful.

Nah, you just admitted to actually not reading the whole story, even though this has come up in XC threads multiple times. Just a tip, your response many months ago should have been:

"I take all accusations seriously and will be reviewing the entire situation and then discussing it with Dan & the team" and actually done that. But instead you've just chosen this filibuster route without being informed.

Huh? In what world is it necessary to read the entire Fibonacci thread? I've asserted that I read the bits where things went wrong, that is, the relevant bits.

So I did review the entire situation. Not that I have any sort of executive capacity, and not that I consider myself required to. But I did anyway.

I consider myself well-informed on this topic.

And, being well-informed, I consider your actions brutally unethical.

[organizer]

I'll let you have the last word in the previous exchange and will update the OP with a summary of your defense of jasinlee, definition of what a scam is, etc when I get a chance and am no longer on my phone.

Teka you are more than welcome to give input on if I miss represent the summarized content of XC reply to my accusations.  

Thank you. Much appreciated.

Please remove XC from the thread's title, and also the word "scammer" and anything to do with scamming.

Removed scam terminology to be more accurate.

Is jasin a developer for XC?   I choose to leave the OP as accurate and fair as I possibly can.  I will interface with teka if he/she so desires.  You are welcome to carry on your word games with others if they wish to entertain you.

As you might see from the website, Jasin is no longer listed as a team member in an official capacity. So, no.

On the other hand we are regularly in touch with him, he contributes to discussions over Skype, and we continue to have every expectation that his ASIC problems will be resolved in due course.

So please remove the word "XC" from the title. After all, why is there a good reason to target XC here?

Ok, i'm not done...

errhhhhmmmm:

http://xc-official.com/assets/pdfs/14-07-08%20The%20XC%20Team.pdf

And you've also confirmed earlier that he was a part of the team... now you don't want to claim him?

[synechist]

Ok, i'm not done...

errhhhhmmmm:

http://xc-official.com/assets/pdfs/14-07-08%20The%20XC%20Team.pdf

And you've also confirmed earlier that he was a part of the team... now you don't want to claim him?

Umm, old document.

I have stated my view explicitly above.

[adhitthana]

http://xc-official.com/assets/pdfs/14-07-08%20The%20XC%20Team.pdf

And you've also confirmed earlier that he was a part of the team... now you don't want to claim him?

It looks like Jasinlee is not an XC team member. So can you do the decent thing and remove any reference to XC

[rdnkjdi]

I'll let you have the last word in the previous exchange and will update the OP with a summary of your defense of jasinlee, definition of what a scam is, etc when I get a chance and am no longer on my phone.

Teka you are more than welcome to give input on if I miss represent the summarized content of XC reply to my accusations.  

Edit: just realized I did not change the title as you asked.  See if the current one is something you feel is more accurate

This caught my eye: 'The devs claim that all the features that exist in XC that are going to Cachecoin will be redeveloped by Jasin.'

Cache had planned Anon before we were in collab with them. None of their Anon features have anything to do with XC even though they seem similar. Cache will only share POBC with XC and even that plan is in very early stages.

I also would like you to remove any attacks against xc like ' Don't walk but RUN from XC ' .

I'm more than happy for you to even move this thread to scam accusations if you want but I think XC shouldn't be targeted. After all, you claim that the financial loss you suffered was with Jasin not XC so therefore you shouldn't focus on XC.

I will be happy to tie all the dots together on why it is toxic to have someone who has misrepresented the truth over and over again involved in a closed source anon coin project since what seems like and obvious problem to me seems to confuse the XC team.  But my goal is not a scam accusation about asics.  It is a warning about jasins involvement in projects where his ethics will cost investors money.

I did as you requested with the title.  I will rephrase the stuff about him writing fresh anon messaging and currency stuff into another coin.  It does seem like a terrible conflict of interest to me since your investors rely on closed source code Jasin has access to.  

[Viper1]

This thread is entertaining.  Seems like Synechist is the PR person for jasinlee as opposed to XC.  As an outsider, he's done more damage than good here IMO. Frankly, I don't get it as usually businesses/companies etc will distance themselves from people that have controversy swirling around them and yet here they're embracing him.

I'll just put this here and perhaps some people should think about it "Thou doth protest too much".

[synechist]

I'll let you have the last word in the previous exchange and will update the OP with a summary of your defense of jasinlee, definition of what a scam is, etc when I get a chance and am no longer on my phone.

Teka you are more than welcome to give input on if I miss represent the summarized content of XC reply to my accusations.  

Edit: just realized I did not change the title as you asked.  See if the current one is something you feel is more accurate

This caught my eye: 'The devs claim that all the features that exist in XC that are going to Cachecoin will be redeveloped by Jasin.'

Cache had planned Anon before we were in collab with them. None of their Anon features have anything to do with XC even though they seem similar. Cache will only share POBC with XC and even that plan is in very early stages.

I also would like you to remove any attacks against xc like ' Don't walk but RUN from XC ' .

I'm more than happy for you to even move this thread to scam accusations if you want but I think XC shouldn't be targeted. After all, you claim that the financial loss you suffered was with Jasin not XC so therefore you shouldn't focus on XC.

I will be happy to tie all the dots together on why it is toxic to have someone who has misrepresented the truth over and over again involved in a closed source anon coin project.  By my goal is not a scam accusation about asics.  It is a warning about jasins involvement in projects where his ethics will cost investors money.

Perhaps then you should mention all the projects Jasin is associated with, rather than just XC.

But since Jasin has no executive influence over XC's course, since he has no control over the premine, and since he has not created any of XC's current technology, Jasin therefore could not turn XC into a scam/fraud if he tried. Therefore I ask that you remove mention of XC from this thread's title.

[rdnkjdi]

Teka let me know if there is anything else.

[adhitthana]

As you might see from the website, Jasin is no longer listed as a team member in an official capacity. So, no.
On the other hand we are regularly in touch with him, he contributes to discussions over Skype, and we continue to have every expectation that his ASIC problems will be resolved in due course.
So please remove the word "XC" from the title. After all, why is there a good reason to target XC here?

Is Jasinlee an "XC developer"?

[rdnkjdi]

As you might see from the website, Jasin is no longer listed as a team member in an official capacity. So, no.
On the other hand we are regularly in touch with him, he contributes to discussions over Skype, and we continue to have every expectation that his ASIC problems will be resolved in due course.
So please remove the word "XC" from the title. After all, why is there a good reason to target XC here?

Is Jasinlee an "XC developer"?

There is some talk on taking him on full time in the chat thread.  He used to be listed on their website.  I'm getting conflicting messages - before the tail end of this thread the answer was a resounding YES.  It sounds like they may be backing off now

[synechist]

This thread is entertaining.  Seems like Synechist is the PR person for jasinlee as opposed to XC.  As an outsider, he's done more damage than good here IMO. Frankly, I don't get it as usually businesses/companies etc will distance themselves from people that have controversy swirling around them and yet here they're embracing him.

I'll just put this here and perhaps some people should think about it "Thou doth protest too much".

Fair point. You're right that I've done something unorthodox.

My reasons for it are as follows:

- Whether Jasin is officially an XC dev or merely associated with XC, his reputation affects XC. So I can't really separate them much.

- This thread is clearly an attack on XC (cf. the title).

- In my personal capacity I strongly object to scam accusations that lack solid justification.

[rdnkjdi]

This thread is entertaining.  Seems like Synechist is the PR person for jasinlee as opposed to XC.  As an outsider, he's done more damage than good here IMO. Frankly, I don't get it as usually businesses/companies etc will distance themselves from people that have controversy swirling around them and yet here they're embracing him.

I'll just put this here and perhaps some people should think about it "Thou doth protest too much".

Fair point. You're right that I've done something unorthodox.

My reasons for it are as follows:

- Whether Jasin is officially an XC dev or merely associated with XC, his reputation affects XC. So I can't really separate them much.

- This thread is clearly an attack on XC (cf. the title).

- In my personal capacity I strongly object to scam accusations that lack solid justification.

[Teka]

Teka let me know if there is anything else.

If you could include this in the op even as a direct qoute I will be extremely happy:

- You can not guarantee that people will loose many because Jasin is involved ( in a small capacity, chatting on skype currently)
         - Our core community is aware of this situation and has expressed their opinon, none of them have dumped or a dumping because of Jasin.

- He's not in position of power.
         - He has no access to any of the funds like the premine
         - He can't dictate what the team does or who works for XC

- Jasin's involvement with cachecoin was public

- Blockchain 2.0 and POBOC ('Interchains') was public and we released that we will be working with Cache on this
           -Currently this in very very early stages

- Anon features were a part of Cache, we addressed the fact that the implementation was different. We never tried to hide the fact that Cache had Anon features. In fact we even discussed it with members. Although these features seem similar they have nothing to do with XC.

- This means that most people knew about nearly every detail of cache and the collab with XC

- You cannot prove that Jasin is stealing any code. As you said this your gut feeling.
        - None of the current tech published by XC was created by Jasin


Also if you a serious about this put a disclaimer that currently you have published no proof. You might have some, I have no idea if you do but currently you haven't put anything out.

[rdnkjdi]

Teka let me know if there is anything else.

If you could include this in the op even as a direct qoute I will be extremely happy:

- You can not guarantee that people will loose many because Jasin is involved ( in a small capacity, chatting on skype currently)
         - Our core community is aware of this situation and has expressed their opinon, none of them have dumped or a dumping because of Jasin.

- He's not in position of power.
         - He has no access to any of the funds like the premine
         - He can't dictate what the team does or who works for XC

- Jasin's involvement with cachecoin was public

- Blockchain 2.0 and POBOC ('Interchains') was public and we released that we will be working with Cache on this
           -Currently this in very very early stages

- Anon features were a part of Cache, we addressed the fact that the implementation was different. We never tried to hide the fact that Cache had Anon features. In fact we even discussed it with members. Although these features seem similar they have nothing to do with XC.

- This means that most people knew about nearly every detail of cache and the collab with XC

- You cannot prove that Jasin is stealing any code. As you said this your gut feeling.
        - None of the current tech published by XC was created by Jasin


Also if you a serious about this put a disclaimer that currently you have published no proof. You might have some, I have no idea if you do but currently you haven't put anything out.

Fair enough.  I've provided plenty of proof in the raw data frome litecointalk but it sounds like you guys really haven't looked into it much. 

I will post this

[adhitthana]

- Whether Jasin is officially an XC dev

Is Jasinleee and XC developer? Yes or no?

or merely associated with XC,

In what way is he "associated" with XC?
Talking to people in discussions on skype does not make someone "associated" with XC.
Come on...you need to make some unambiguous statements about this. Be clear.

[Teka]

Teka let me know if there is anything else.

If you could include this in the op even as a direct qoute I will be extremely happy:

- You can not guarantee that people will loose many because Jasin is involved ( in a small capacity, chatting on skype currently)
         - Our core community is aware of this situation and has expressed their opinon, none of them have dumped or a dumping because of Jasin.

- He's not in position of power.
         - He has no access to any of the funds like the premine
         - He can't dictate what the team does or who works for XC

- Jasin's involvement with cachecoin was public

- Blockchain 2.0 and POBOC ('Interchains') was public and we released that we will be working with Cache on this
           -Currently this in very very early stages

- Anon features were a part of Cache, we addressed the fact that the implementation was different. We never tried to hide the fact that Cache had Anon features. In fact we even discussed it with members. Although these features seem similar they have nothing to do with XC.

- This means that most people knew about nearly every detail of cache and the collab with XC

- You cannot prove that Jasin is stealing any code. As you said this your gut feeling.
        - None of the current tech published by XC was created by Jasin


Also if you a serious about this put a disclaimer that currently you have published no proof. You might have some, I have no idea if you do but currently you haven't put anything out.

Fair enough.  I've provided plenty of proof in the raw data frome litecointalk but it sounds like you guys really haven't looked into it much. 

I will post this

Sorry its 3am here, I should have mentioned that you need to explain proof. Also proof of order is nearly always vital in these type of threads.

[synechist]

- Whether Jasin is officially an XC dev

Is Jasinleee and XC developer? Yes or no?

or merely associated with XC,

In what way is he "associated" with XC?
Talking to people in discussions on skype does not make someone "associated" with XC.
Come on...you need to make some unambiguous statements about this. Be clear.

As you might see from the website, Jasin is no longer listed as a team member in an official capacity. So, no.

[This does not mean that we are no longer in touch with him.] ...we are regularly in touch with him, he contributes to discussions over Skype, and we continue to have every expectation that his ASIC problems will be resolved in due course.

[adhitthana]

[This does not mean that we are no longer in touch with him.] ...we are regularly in touch with him, he contributes to discussions over Skype,

I don't care if you talk to him. What is his role in XC?
Can't you please give an unambiguous response?

and we continue to have every expectation that his ASIC problems will be resolved in due course.

I don't care about your expectations of Jasinlee. Your expectations about him are 100% irrelevant.

[synechist]

[This does not mean that we are no longer in touch with him.] ...we are regularly in touch with him, he contributes to discussions over Skype,

I don't care if you talk to him. What is his role in XC?
Can't you please give an unambiguous response?

and we continue to have every expectation that his ASIC problems will be resolved in due course.

I don't care about your expectations of Jasinlee. Your expectations about him are 100% irrelevant.

How is this unambiguous?

- "As you might see from the website, Jasin is no longer listed as a team member in an official capacity. So, no."


Furthermore it is not irrelevant to be candid about both our continued interaction with Jasin and our expectations about Jasin's ASIC project. In fact, it is pretty important that we remain candid about this, since it would be bad faith if we were to lead investors to think that his lacking an official capacity with XC meant that he was not in communication with us.

[adhitthana]

How is this unambiguous?

- "As you might see from the website, Jasin is no longer listed as a team member in an official capacity. So, no."

Your response has been ambiguous because you have said elsewhere that he is involved in "discussions."
Apparently Jasinlee is still involved in an "unofficial" capacity. You need to be be clear and unambigous about what this is.

Furthermore it is not irrelevant

Your opinion s about the other matter is irrelevant. The other matter has nothing to do with XC.
  

to be candid about both our continued interaction with Jasin and our expectations about Jasin's ASIC project. In fact, it is pretty important that we remain candid about this, since it would be bad faith if we were to lead investors to think that his lacking an official capacity with XC meant that he was not in communication with us.

I don't care whether you talk to him. He is innocent (until proven guilty). So whether you are in communication with him is irrelevant.

What matters is his current role in XC.

[csun]

most certainly smells like a scam.

If Jasin is truly unable to respond due to a personal issue, then it's advisable that he communicates it. Either himself, or through someone else.

Excellent post. This is constructive.

"Smells like a scam" is the most truthful representation of your perspective we've had so far. If I didn't know Jasin and was coming from your perspective I'd say the same thing.

Yet "smelling like a scam" is worlds away from being shown to be a scam.

That's the crucial fact here. This thread accuses Jasin of being a scammer. This is manifestly unjustified.



As for Jasin being unable to respond, well, you've now heard from me. You're very welcome to calm others' nerves by spreading the word as to the reason for his silence.

Failure to understand context of a phrase and moving goal posts now?

Perhaps you've never heard of the saying "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck"? Given sufficient observable evidence to arrive at a conclusion with almost certainty, it is no longer up to me to prove the conclusion with absolute certainty, but for you to refute my arguments.

Again, Jasin has taken money, failed to meet contractual obligations (not just by a little bit, but by a huge margin), failed to produce proof of any work done to meet contractual obligations, removed/concealed financial transaction data, and has disappeared for the past week and a half. A rational person, court, etc. would see these chain of actions as a scam. I am no longer obligated to provide further arguments. Rather it is up to Jasin, or rather you to refute the arguments.

Here is the tally so far:
Jasin has taken money: You have admitted that he has.
Failed to meet contractual obligations: Your argument is that because delivery is late does not mean it is a scam. This is a weak argument since you could extend the delay out indefinitely and nothing would ever be considered a scam. Again, it's not just a few times or a small delay, it has been every time, indefinite delay.
Failed to  produce proof of work done to meet contractual obligations: Jasin has refused to provide information of foundry for order verification because the foundry does not like crypto-currencies...
Removed/concealed financial transaction data: Removed user login and reworked Fibonaci.io. Promises to have it restored by last weekend. Has not delivered or addressed the issue. Again, I suppose if you give him till the end of time, he will eventually deliver right?

It is not my responsibility inform anyone of Jasin's condition. In fact, I don't give much credence to the statement given that work seems to have been done on the Fibonaci.io site in the mean time. Also, it has somehow escaped the conversation where his unresponsiveness was a major driving point in the complaints until now.

[rdnkjdi]

Sorry its 3am here, I should have mentioned that you need to explain proof. Also proof of order is nearly always vital in these type of threads.

Teka

While I believe I understand what you are saying - that I need more "proof".  Proof is in the eye of the beholder.  It isn't really up to me or the XC team to decide how much proof is needed to warn investors on a project he's pretty intimately involved with

However.  Promising to deliver a product in May/June, then July, then August.  Then October.  Then refusing to provide any tangible proof that the product (ASIC) was ever worked on.  Then removing the ability to login to a website that has the only ledger or proof of original orders and turning it into a sales pitch for XC/Cachecoin.   And then going AWOL from the project entirely.  I would argue is plenty of proof for any non biased person.

I understand that it is XC's stance that this is not proof enough.  But I'm afraid in this we will have to disagree.  Quite frankly I'm baffled at the responses on here.  Investors have lost hundreds of thousands to your developer.  But the stance of your lead PR is that I am simply spreading FUD.

I am completely at a loss as to why you've chosen to defend, entrench and refuse to even take a close look at the facts presented.  I want as many contemplating jumping into this project to comprehend what they are getting into.  Thank you for your clarification and explanations.

 Let me know if there's anything else I can do.  I'm trying to be honest and upfront here.  Be happy to deal with you even if we disagree as long as you don't waste my efforts to dialog with word games.  If you decide XC has a different official response I will be happy to update the OP.

[synechist]

Sorry its 3am here, I should have mentioned that you need to explain proof. Also proof of order is nearly always vital in these type of threads.

While I believe I understand what you are saying - that I need more "proof".  Proof is in the eye of the beholder.  It isn't really up to me or the XC team to decide how much proof is needed.

However.  Promising to deliver a product in June, then July, then August.  Then October.  Then refusing to provide any tangible proof that the product (ASIC) was ever worked on.  Then removing the ability to login to a website that has the only ledger or proof of original orders and turning it into a sales pitch for XC/Cachecoin.   And then going AWOL from the project entirely.  I would argue is plenty of proof for any non biased person.

I understand that it is XC's stance that this is not proof enough.  But I'm afraid in this we will have to disagree.

You're now repeating yourself.

I won't do the same.

Instead, here's a link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770801.msg8693958#msg8693958

[demgains]

LOL how the fuck does XC have ANYTHING to do with what one of the members did in the past? This coin was created WITHOUT Jasinlee, and he was later added. So because he offered his services, we all have to suffer for some mishap that occured in the past with him? Seriously guys, go reach out to him personally and stop trying to stir the pot and create FUD. I've read these stupid threads before and they are laughable and hold zero relevance to XC. Dan is the lead dev and he has proven to be trustworthy and transparent. Jasinlee is aiding in the development and is just a small piece of the big puzzle.

[rdnkjdi]

LOL how the fuck does XC have ANYTHING to do with what one of the members did in the past? This coin was created WITHOUT Jasinlee, and he was later added. So because he offered his services, we all have to suffer for some mishap that occured in the past with him? Seriously guys, go reach out to him personally and stop trying to stir the pot and create FUD. I've read these stupid threads before and they are laughable and hold zero relevance to XC. Dan is the lead dev and he has proven to be trustworthy and transparent. Jasinlee is aiding in the development and is just a small piece of the big puzzle.

I'm really unsure of what else to say.  It's a bad idea to invest in a closed source coin that claims world class anon when one of the three devs has repeatedly lied and defrauded dozens of customers out of hundreds of thousands of dollars and the entire XC team continues to back and defend him?

It isn't your problem if you are content with everything I suppose.  I just find it odd that you are.

Maybe I'm just sour grapes (happens when someone cheats you out of thousands of dollars with lies).  I'd planned on letting this go even though Jasinlee likes the world to think he's part of your project.  If my goal was strictly spreading FUD against XC I would have posted this long ago.

But then I saw people in XC talking about how he's still associated with the project.

I've pointed out the conflicts of interest between Cache and XC.

Buyer beware?

[rdnkjdi]

rdnkjdi... May we see your orders from Cryptsy? Arlyn asked for them today. You have had enough time, so it shouldn't be a problem. Right? Can you post them here so we can see you have a valid argument. Not the other guys... just you. As you can see from my above post I am taking some heat here because I think Jasin not keeping you guys in the loop is not right. I am acting in good faith so can you reciprocate and show your orders. It would establish trust. Thank you.

Sure I said I'd be happy to answer any other questions.   Just have low tolerance for word games and Synchillis has worn out my patience.

Not really sure exactly what this proves except the price I purchased cache with.

http://imgur.com/zU9f4pF

I plan on following my post up with timelined quotes from Jasin and the people in lite coin forums who have been scammed.  

I've been offered a refund w cache being worth $0.04 - worthless now that it's not being pumped by Jasin.

Jasin was offering .01btc per cache so I would've purchased $7,200 worth of cache.  Since I was getting it at 65% price on average at Cryptsy I suppose I probably spent  4,600ish in real dollars.

So my 1,500 cach worth  4,600 would be worth $75 if I took a refund.  

I was able to get a lower rate  on ASIC hash power that Jasin is promising in two months a week ago for a lower price per mhs than what I paid him.

At the hash rate jasin is promised in a few months (what hes promised for the 3rd time?) it won't be worth much more than the cache refund.  If I was guessing - if he does deliver (doubtful) it'll be a ripoff of buying someone else's old chip design.

[CryptoGretzky]

rdnkjdi... May we see your orders from Cryptsy? Arlyn asked for them today. You have had enough time, so it shouldn't be a problem. Right? Can you post them here so we can see you have a valid argument. Not the other guys... just you. As you can see from my above post I am taking some heat here because I think Jasin not keeping you guys in the loop is not right. I am acting in good faith so can you reciprocate and show your orders. It would establish trust. Thank you.

Sure I said I'd be happy to answer any other questions.   Just have low tolerance for word games and Synchillis has worn out my patience.

Not really sure exactly what this proves except the price I purchased cache with.

http://imgur.com/zU9f4pF

I plan on following my post up with timelined quotes from Jasin and the people in lite coin forums who have been scammed.  

I've been offered a refund w cache being worth $0.04 - worthless now that it's not being pumped by Jasin.

Jasin was offering .01btc per cache so I would've purchased $7,200 worth of cache.  Since I was getting it at 65% price on average at Cryptsy I suppose I probably spent  4,600ish in real dollars.

So my 1,500 cach worth  4,600 would be worth $75 if I took a refund.  

I was able to get a lower rate  on ASIC hash power that Jasin is promising in two months a week ago for a lower price per mhs than what I paid him.

At the hash rate jasin is promised in a few months (what hes promised for the 3rd time?) it won't be worth much more than the cache refund.  If I was guessing - if he does deliver (doubtful) it'll be a ripoff of buying someone else's old chip design.

Hmm... your screenshot shows that you purchased a total of 0.016261148 btc of cache.    What are you trying to show there?  I don't get it.

[rdnkjdi]

rdnkjdi... May we see your orders from Cryptsy? Arlyn asked for them today. You have had enough time, so it shouldn't be a problem. Right? Can you post them here so we can see you have a valid argument. Not the other guys... just you. As you can see from my above post I am taking some heat here because I think Jasin not keeping you guys in the loop is not right. I am acting in good faith so can you reciprocate and show your orders. It would establish trust. Thank you.

Sure I said I'd be happy to answer any other questions.   Just have low tolerance for word games and Synchillis has worn out my patience.

Not really sure exactly what this proves except the price I purchased cache with.

http://imgur.com/zU9f4pF

I plan on following my post up with timelined quotes from Jasin and the people in lite coin forums who have been scammed.  

I've been offered a refund w cache being worth $0.04 - worthless now that it's not being pumped by Jasin.

Jasin was offering .01btc per cache so I would've purchased $7,200 worth of cache.  Since I was getting it at 65% price on average at Cryptsy I suppose I probably spent  4,600ish in real dollars.

So my 1,500 cach worth  4,600 would be worth $75 if I took a refund.  

I was able to get a lower rate  on ASIC hash power that Jasin is promising in two months a week ago for a lower price per mhs than what I paid him.

At the hash rate jasin is promised in a few months (what hes promised for the 3rd time?) it won't be worth much more than the cache refund.  If I was guessing - if he does deliver (doubtful) it'll be a ripoff of buying someone else's old chip design.

Hmm... your screenshot shows that you purchased a total of 0.016261148 btc of cache.    What are you trying to show there?  I don't get it.

It's a small section and from a phone screenshot. Someone on the chat thread was asking. 

If people want to know the exact number of cache and have proof I can figure out a way to get it from my computer.

It may be dozens of screenshots.  You can easily go back to crypsy and track the prices with jasins announcement.

I stated I would answer questions from anyone who was not the wordplay guy and was attempting to do so.

[CryptoGretzky]

rdnkjdi... May we see your orders from Cryptsy? Arlyn asked for them today. You have had enough time, so it shouldn't be a problem. Right? Can you post them here so we can see you have a valid argument. Not the other guys... just you. As you can see from my above post I am taking some heat here because I think Jasin not keeping you guys in the loop is not right. I am acting in good faith so can you reciprocate and show your orders. It would establish trust. Thank you.

Sure I said I'd be happy to answer any other questions.   Just have low tolerance for word games and Synchillis has worn out my patience.

Not really sure exactly what this proves except the price I purchased cache with.

http://imgur.com/zU9f4pF

I plan on following my post up with timelined quotes from Jasin and the people in lite coin forums who have been scammed.  

I've been offered a refund w cache being worth $0.04 - worthless now that it's not being pumped by Jasin.

Jasin was offering .01btc per cache so I would've purchased $7,200 worth of cache.  Since I was getting it at 65% price on average at Cryptsy I suppose I probably spent  4,600ish in real dollars.

So my 1,500 cach worth  4,600 would be worth $75 if I took a refund.  

I was able to get a lower rate  on ASIC hash power that Jasin is promising in two months a week ago for a lower price per mhs than what I paid him.

At the hash rate jasin is promised in a few months (what hes promised for the 3rd time?) it won't be worth much more than the cache refund.  If I was guessing - if he does deliver (doubtful) it'll be a ripoff of buying someone else's old chip design.

Hmm... your screenshot shows that you purchased a total of 0.016261148 btc of cache.    What are you trying to show there?  I don't get it.

It's a small section and from a phone screenshot. Someone on the chat thread was asking. 

If people want to know the exact number of cache and have proof I can figure out a way to get it from my computer.

It may be dozens of screenshots.  You can easily go back to crypsy and track the prices with jasins announcement.

I stated I would answer questions from anyone who was not the wordplay guy and was attempting to do so.

Your post title is so misleading.    Jasinlee is not "one of the developer" of XC.    He might deliver PoBC in the future, but he's definitely not one of the developer of XC.   He doesn't even have any hands in the core of the codes now.   So, by you spreading FUD about XC and trying to tank the price of XC, who do I go after for that?   That's your ultimate objective isn't it?  Trying to drag XC down since you lost money on some stupid purchase of an ASIC.   

XC is not something that Jasin created.  Dan is the creator of XC.   How many times does it take for people to get it through your troll skull?  Go troll in the Cache coin thread instead.

[CrazyLeoW]

Alright I'm going to (try) to be brief.

Cryptocurrencies are built on trust/distrust from association.

Prior to now - Jasinlee was listed as the #2 developer on XC per their website.  In recent allegations he was taken off the website.  I gave them the benefit of the doubt that they would politely ask him to step away.  However it looks more like he's still a pretty integral part of the project.  His website is now dedicated to XC (fibonacci.io) and he took down the ability for the ASIC purchasers to log in and see their shares (was supposed to be a hosted thing).  He now says nothing about ASICs - limited to XC/Cache promotion.

Jasinlee has scammed people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars on a preorder Scyrpt ASIC.  He has not responded to anything (dozens) of questions that his "answers" raised after an IRC chat that was supposed to clear up questions.  He has gone awol but continues to work on the XC project.

Scam accusation project -> https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21506.msg198342#msg198342
Summary thread (needs updated) -> https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21742.msg203897#msg203897
Summary of last communication w Jasinlee week ago summarized (I will be corrected if I get any of it wrong) -> https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21742.msg203897#msg203897

Alliance with XC confirmed today.

'Cryptophi was a joined marketing project and what got us to Bitcoin in the Beltway.'

Furthermore, hes active in our 'project' chat.

Jasin's work and experience is beneficial to XC. So far his experience and coding in regards to XC have been extremely useful for the project.

https://fibonacci.io/ (fibonacci is where we originally ordered the miners.  Nothing is said about them now)
http://cryptophi.com/ (joint effort by jasinlee & XC & Cache)

I don't believe XC is "behind" the ASIC scam however.

1 - They continue to be happy to partner with Jasinlee to promote their coin on a website I used to be able to log into and look at my "ASIC" shares that are never coming.  Now it's dedicated to promoting XC/Cache.

2 - They continue to be happy to be associated with him as a developer which leads me to believe he is a very core part of the team.  (He was listed as #2 dev at one time)

3 - I'm not sure if they are aware.  But the technology associated with XC Jasinlee has several times mentioned porting over to Cachecoin.  Since XC is closed source I believe he plans on using it to "pump" cachecoin (anon messaging, anon transactions, sidechain technology it is unclear if it will be released to Cachecoin or XC first).

<<Edit>> The devs assure me that all the features that exist in XC that are going to Cachecoin will be redeveloped by Jasin.  #3 is a strong hunch supported by evidence but not provable.


This is a long long post to just say.  There is much more here than meets the eye to both Cachecoin, XCurrency, Jasinlee, a website I used to be able to log into my account with that now says nothing about ASICs.  

Take it for what it's worth.  Don't walk but RUN from XC and/or Cache.  They had a chance to disassociate themselves and they have chosen not to.


This is from Teka for XC on their stance of my accusations.  

If you could include this in the op even as a direct qoute I will be extremely happy:

- You can not guarantee that people will loose many because Jasin is involved
         - Our core community is aware of this situation and has expressed their opinon, none of them have dumped or a dumping because of Jasin.

- He's not in position of power.
         - He has no access to any of the funds like the premine
         - He can't dictate what the team does or who works for XC

- Jasin's involvement with cachecoin was public

- Blockchain 2.0 and POBOC ('Interchains') was public and we released that we will be working with Cache on this
           -Currently this in very very early stages

- Anon features were a part of Cache, we addressed the fact that the implementation was different. We never tried to hide the fact that Cache had Anon features. In fact we even discussed it with members. Although these features seem similar they have nothing to do with XC.

- This means that most people knew about nearly every detail of cache and the collab with XC

- You cannot prove that Jasin is stealing any code. As you said this your gut feeling.
        - None of the current tech published by XC was created by Jasin


Also if you a serious about this put a disclaimer that currently you have published no proof. You might have some, I have no idea if you do but currently you haven't put anything out.

Hey rdnkjdi,
afaik, Jasin doesn't develop code for XC team. He works on Marketing and Strategy.
I talked with XC team on technology discussion. So I know it.

[CrazyLeoW]

And PoBC is not XC's code. But will be combined with XC after implemented.
Stop FUD if you have no idea on a unknown thing.

[rdnkjdi]

I'm really just tired of this.  Obviously those with a vested interest will downplay this.

This thread is officially a warning to those contemplating investing in XC.  I think the content stands on its own.

Any future questions I'll be happy to answer.  All I see is "you have no proof" when there is plenty.  

And "it doesn't matter" which baffles me beyond belief.  But to each his own.

[CryptoGretzky]

I'm really just tired of this.  Obviously those with a vested interest will downplay this.

This thread is officially a warning to those contemplating investing in XC.  I think the content stands on its own.

Any future questions I'll be happy to answer.  All I see is "you have no proof" when there is plenty.  

And "it doesn't matter" which baffles me beyond belief.  But to each his own.

We are all tired of your fud.   You just better watch yourself if someone lose their money through their investment of XC and they make an example of you.   You have slandered XC which is unjustified because Dan is the creator of the coin.    You just might be the first one to have BCT subpoena for your IP and have your ass sued for it if you keep this shit up.

If you feel you have a legitimate legal complaint aganist Jasin, then go through legal means and stop whining on this forum.

Bring your whining about your greedy investment of an unknown ASIC that didn't materialized to the correct place and not drag other people's investment down, you asshole.  Nobody have any sympathy for your greediness gone wrong.

It doesn't matter to me because I didn't get greedy and tried to invest in a product that looks too good to be true, you did.

[holyprofit]

LOL how the fuck does XC have ANYTHING to do with what one of the members did in the past? This coin was created WITHOUT Jasinlee, and he was later added. So because he offered his services, we all have to suffer for some mishap that occured in the past with him? Seriously guys, go reach out to him personally and stop trying to stir the pot and create FUD. I've read these stupid threads before and they are laughable and hold zero relevance to XC. Dan is the lead dev and he has proven to be trustworthy and transparent. Jasinlee is aiding in the development and is just a small piece of the big puzzle.

I'm really unsure of what else to say.  

That's because you've repeated yourself so often even you are getting bored. I think you have made your point. And as above, why not actually go after the person you think has scammed you - oh I know, it's because you're fudding. And what proof!?!? To be honest I'm beginning to doubt you lost anything.

[uozer]

lots of people can tell you that jasinlee took their money and didnt deliver on promises, thats the bottom line.

[CryptoGretzky]

lots of people can tell you that jasinlee took their money and didnt deliver on promises, thats the bottom line.

Then deal with Jasin... not XC.  Jasin has nothing to do with XC and their investors.

[Teka]

lots of people can tell you that jasinlee took their money and didnt deliver on promises, thats the bottom line.

Then deal with Jasin... not XC.  Jasin has nothing to do with XC and their investors.

Exactly. Focus on Jasin.

[barwizi]

Whoa there!!!!

Can someone please link me to the "proof" that Jasin' been naughty? I find it hard to believe.

And I can tell you without a single shred of doubt that the Cachecoin dev is not in anyway linked with any shady shit.

[lbr]

Whoa there!!!!

Can someone please link me to the "proof" that Jasin' been naughty? I find it hard to believe.

And I can tell you without a single shred of doubt that the Cachecoin dev is not in anyway linked with any shady shit.

Very naughty ; )

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2702.0
No proof there, tho.
But some things do look.. u know.. weird ; )

Fib ASIC marketing was nice - aim at forum members, LTC defense blah-blah, 'trusted' distribution.
Most of concerns raised were flagged as 'trolling'/'FUD'/'shill attacks' and sometimes post deleted.
Also - 'we are not forcing you to buy our Fib ASIC' type answer was used frequently to answer some of the concerns ; )

Litecointalk forum moderators were made involved by making some of them 'trusted hosts'. And ofc it is very hard to separate your private interest from public forum moderation. This resulted in biased(imo) mods actions in Fib ASIC threads and other ASIC manufacturers threads. As in - in Fib thread mods were making warning and deleting(?) 'concerns' as fud/trolling and posting similar 'concerns' in other threads by themselves ; ) To confirm read all posts of mods in all AISC threads.. (yeah it's very annoying, but funny).

CACHE.. Jasin started accepting CacheCoin as a payment for Fib ASIC at a fixed price, higher than on the exchanges. Some members on bitcointalk and litecointalk had "ASIC coin" in their signatures. CacheCoin exchange rate went up. If I'm not mistaken litecontalk moderator Sy had huge ammount of Cache(mined?) so he bought a lot of Fib ASICs. After Fib stopped accepting Cache exchange rate plummeted down.
Some ppl claim that this was an intentional pump&dump of Cache and that the developer of Cache was involved. Cache dev(kalgecin) and jasin apparently were working together(?) on some Cache features and jasin occasinally made claims that he is very interested in Cache(and XC) and has some plans for it.
At the time, the proof from jasin that is was not pump&dump I've read was that he has not sold any Cache received for the ASICs. However to gain profit from this possible p&d you don't necessarily need to sell aquired Cache, you just need to make enough profit on Cache rate fluctuation you knew in advance and number of ASICs you can buy with Cache was intentionally limited. Also there were some allegations(with proof) that jasin wife sold some Cache prior the pump.

Also Fib ASICs were not sold as actual asics instead they were sold as hardware shares also Fib profit shares were sold.
Exchange was promised for those to be implemented. It was never completed cause.. jasin said dev run away. There is also no proof that it ever was developed. Also defense line - 'we make ASICs no websites' was used to 'calm down' ppl concerned that Fib site is buggy and exchange is not completed yet ; ) And ofc that ppl are trolling and are shills of the competitors and that they are not developers and don't understand how much effort it takes to make and test a web site ; )

What's funny is that long before Fib began sales there was a talk that practice of giving money to 'trusted' ppl should be stopped. mmitech(litecointalk) argued that there are enough cases when 'trusted' ppl collected vast ammounts of BTC and dissapeared after. At the time Jasin said that comparison is wrong, cause he have not collected any money yet ; ) Well.. now he has ; )

After 'fud' of corrupted litecointalk mods, admins and LiteCoin association spread, TheMage(litecointalk mod) organised a meeting with Jasin where some 'trusted' ppl representing investors were allowed to ask Jasin some questions. Some of the info was not made public, cause Jasin said it is a part of NDA between him and ASIC chip designers. However, total ammount of planned ASIC chips was made public - ppl counted their orders and realised that planned ammount is much(?) less.
Also coversation revealed the fact that Fib is still on ASIC prototyping/simulation stage. This is odd cause when KNC announced their scrypt ASIC, Fib raised  performance, claiming that they have been designing ASIC for years and that at first they revealed well below performance number not to spook competitors. Again concerns were either marked as trolling/fud and partially answered with 'we have genious salsa dev'.
Also Jasin claimed that ASIC design company(or fab?!) is not aware that they are designing ASIC to be used for litecoin mining and that it was deliberately made secret, because they hate everything about the cryptos and won't do the job if they knew.

[lbr]

As for XC.. I don't even know what that is.
Whats is clear.. some ppl think that.. Jasin smells.. and so everything connected to him smells too.

[barwizi]

Whoa there!!!!

Can someone please link me to the "proof" that Jasin' been naughty? I find it hard to believe.

And I can tell you without a single shred of doubt that the Cachecoin dev is not in anyway linked with any shady shit.

Very naughty ; )

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2702.0
No proof there, tho.
But some things do look.. u know.. weird ; )

Fib ASIC marketing was nice - aim at forum members, LTC defense blah-blah, 'trusted' distribution.
Most of concerns raised were flagged as 'trolling'/'FUD'/'shill attacks' and sometimes post deleted.
Also - 'we are not forcing you to buy our Fib ASIC' type answer was used frequently to answer some of the concerns ; )

Litecointalk forum moderators were made involved by making some of them 'trusted hosts'. And ofc it is very hard to separate your private interest from public forum moderation. This resulted in biased(imo) mods actions in Fib ASIC threads and other ASIC manufacturers threads. As in - in Fib thread mods were making warning and deleting(?) 'concerns' as fud/trolling and posting similar 'concerns' in other threads by themselves ; ) To confirm read all posts of mods in all AISC threads.. (yeah it's very annoying, but funny).

CACHE.. Jasin started accepting CacheCoin as a payment for Fib ASIC at a fixed price, higher than on the exchanges. Some members on bitcointalk and litecointalk had "ASIC coin" in their signatures. CacheCoin exchange rate went up. If I'm not mistaken litecontalk moderator Sy had huge ammount of Cache(mined?) so he bought a lot of Fib ASICs. After Fib stopped accepting Cache exchange rate plummeted down.
Some ppl claim that this was an intentional pump&dump of Cache and that the developer of Cache was involved. Cache dev(kalgecin) and jasin apparently were working together(?) on some Cache features and jasin occasinally made claims that he is very interested in Cache(and XC) and has some plans for it.
At the time, the proof from jasin that is was not pump&dump I've read was that he has not sold any Cache received for the ASICs. However to gain profit from this possible p&d you don't necessarily need to sell aquired Cache, you just need to make enough profit on Cache rate fluctuation you knew in advance and number of ASICs you can buy with Cache was intentionally limited. Also there were some allegations(with proof) that jasin wife sold some Cache prior the pump.

Also Fib ASICs were not sold as actual asics instead they were sold as hardware shares also Fib profit shares were sold.
Exchange was promised for those to be implemented. It was never completed cause.. jasin said dev run away. There is also no proof that it ever was developed. Also defense line - 'we make ASICs no websites' was used to 'calm down' ppl concerned that Fib site is buggy and exchange is not completed yet ; ) And ofc that ppl are trolling and are shills of the competitors and that they are not developers and don't understand how much effort it takes to make and test a web site ; )

What's funny is that long before Fib began sales there was a talk that practice of giving money to 'trusted' ppl should be stopped. mmitech(litecointalk) argued that there are enough cases when 'trusted' ppl collected vast ammounts of BTC and dissapeared after. At the time Jasin said that comparison is wrong, cause he have not collected any money yet ; ) Well.. now he has ; )

After 'fud' of corrupted litecointalk mods, admins and LiteCoin association spread, TheMage(litecointalk mod) organised a meeting with Jasin where some 'trusted' ppl representing investors were allowed to ask Jasin some questions. Some of the info was not made public, cause Jasin said it is a part of NDA between him and ASIC chip designers. However, total ammount of planned ASIC chips was made public - ppl counted their orders and realised that planned ammount is much(?) less.
Also coversation revealed the fact that Fib is still on ASIC prototyping/simulation stage. This is odd cause when KNC announced their scrypt ASIC, Fib raised  performance, claiming that they have been designing ASIC for years and that at first they revealed well below performance number not to spook competitors. Again concerns were either marked as trolling/fud and partially answered with 'we have genious salsa dev'.
Also Jasin claimed that ASIC design company(or fab?!) is not aware that they are designing ASIC to be used for litecoin mining and that it was deliberately made secret, because they hate everything about the cryptos and won't do the job if they knew.

Lol, what a mess. Oh well, hope he clears things up.

ha, if that was the plan...it was pretty elaborate.

[lbr]

Lol, what a mess. Oh well, hope he clears things up.

ha, if that was the plan...it was pretty elaborate.

Yeah ; )
At this point I even hope that all that was intented and planned scam, so at least someone will get something positive from all this.
So far I see angry ppl loosing money and Litecoin assoiciation/mods, CacheCoin, XC taking hits and Jasin dissapearing ; ))

[organizer]

Just to follow up with some additional points regarding this:

Jasin/Wifey & Cache
Some research found some posts about Jasin blasting people for using sock puppet accounts at some point in time. Then a connection was made between his wife's nickname (email addresses, social media, etc.) pretty much directly tying Jasin & said account to the Cache stuff (i.e. stuff like "just bought from the CACHE dev, later on posting blocks of Cache for sale at the newly pumped/inflated prices. Based on everything I saw, there's about 0% chance that this person was not Jasin (maybe his wife, but I tend to think it was him). So much for being against sock puppet accounts.

General FIBs
Up until about late spring/early summer the ASIC project was touted as being so far ahead of any competition due to the fact that it was something like 1.5+ years in the making... the hash rate, power consumption, etc. Up until this point, Jasin was happy to quickly answer technical questions about the product.

At the same time, he was also touting his "high frequency exchange" being virtually complete minus some fixes for "regulatory stuff" in around April/May... no proof has ever been provided that such a product exists, much less that it's in BETA state.

This is around the same point he got involved with XC and his attention clearly went to playing coin pumper to that community, which was embraced and promoted by the "team". Talks of "fund evalutions, "watch the price, big whales are going to start buying" you'll be sorry if you sell now, etc. etc." started appearing.

At some point in early Summer, Jasin promised a major update the following week or something. Then he disappeared for like a month. Finally he comes back not with any update but unveils the great coin theft debacle with his developer. I have no idea what happened, my own theory is that the developer was in a situation where he probably was owed money by Jasin and couldn't get paid and maybe out of frustration just took what he was owed and bailed... I don't know, that makes sense to me because not all coins were stolen, which would seem to be what someone would do if they were simply a crook. Now, that doesn't condone what the dude did by running off with coins, but it seems to fit things better than just someone running away with all the coins. Now if it was a open & shut "theft" Jasin is still grossly negligent as the "CEO" of a company to not only allow someone he loosely knew with access to the coins, but also to have no idea that the theft even happened when it did.

This is when things really started to unravel where he started to finally come clean about the true state of the project... at first he tried to say it was still going on and just in a round of testing... I believe later it came to light that there wasn't even a previous design and the chip was still being designed (again I point back to the initial claims of the maturity and status of the project). This alone is probably enough to prove fraud in the sense that he provided customers and investors material information he knew to be incorrect at the time.

Finally, remember he was not only involved in product sales, but was also selling profit shares in his company. Ethically, you would think you'd want to be more honest and forthright to not only customers, but investors as well. To my knowledge, he's never proposed any type of plan for recourse for those investors beyond the refunds, which have stopped coming.

(Note: These is all pretty much paraphrasing things, as i'm recalling from memory here)

How does this tie to XC? Well, both times i've seen it leak over to the XC thread the team has vigorously defended him and embraced him as part of the team (officially a member up until sometime last night it looks like). I have no idea why, maybe they believe that he brings value with #cyrptophi, his promises of interactions with "funds", etc. I don't know.

But it reflects incredibly poorly on the community and the team to not have actually read through the case, realized there was enough PROOF (preponderance of evidence anyone?) that this has spiraled to something more than just a mismanaged project and could have definitely acted to help those hurt recover something earlier, even just through putting pressure on him publicly and privately. Unfortunately, alts have devolved to such a point where it's ok for stuff like this to happen I guess.

But we get instead filibustering and name-calling (remember, i'm BRUTALLY UNETHICAL) and continued support of Jasin.

Of course this hurts XC, the last time I tried posting on the thread I got hit with the same FUD nonsense, but surprisingly there were a number of PMs asking for more info... to which I just pointed them to the LTC forum thread to judge for themselves... Not everyone who invests or follows a coin is blindly faithful.

[kryptopojken]

Jasinlee is a piece of shit and deserves to sit behind bars.

[atp1916]

In this case, people were pre-ordering the development process.... not the product!  

[rdnkjdi]

Posted the best summaries (probably better than mine) to the OP.  TY organizer & lbr for the clarifications/summarized narratives.

[Spoetnik]

As for XC.. I don't even know what that is.
Whats is clear.. some ppl think that.. Jasin smells.. and so everything connected to him smells too.

lay down with dogs you get fleas.. keep playing stupid guys 

[adhitthana]

We need to change the title of this thread as Dan M from XC has unambiguously stated that Jasinlee was NEVER an XC developer.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.msg8706065#msg8706065

[rdnkjdi]

We need to change the title of this thread as Dan M from XC has unambiguously stated that Jasinlee was NEVER an XC developer.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.msg8706065#msg8706065

*Sigh* Except that Tika and their official PR guy and what used to be posted on their website is in direct contradiction to this statement.

I will post this for the benefit on anyone in XC.  I came over to the XC chat thread and had a pretty extensive argument about Jasinlee and explained that he was scamming people / ignoring people who had paid him hundreds of thousands probably close to a month ago.

I was told I was a FUDDER, Jasinlee was fine, he was a great dev, etc etc.

Soon after XC came up in a thread on the normal litecoin forum.  I brought up that Jasinlee was the #2 core dev (it looked like it - he was listed on the website right next to Dan in the developer section).  Dan popped in and said "Do you SEE HIM LISTED as a core dev?  No you don't."  Soon after that Jasinlee was taken off of the website.

Until now I've left it alone even though Jasinlee is pushing XC/Cachecoin very hard on his website.  I'm fine with him pretending to be associated with a coin that isn't actively associating with him.  I sluffed this off as "not XC's fault that he's pushing them - he must just be a bagholder"

Recently in the chat thread some people have mentioned him and his work (including official XC people).  One guy even mentioned bringing him on full time (not official).  I brought him up in the chat thread AGAIN.  People rallied around Jasinlee and told me to take my complaints somewhere else (including Teka) and that he was still very involved in the project.  There was no "We are looking into this.  If there are allegations we will see if it's true that a developer associated with us is scamming people and cut ties."  There was resounding defense and "go away fudder" so I created this thread to present my side of the story.

It is quite easy reading thru Synchillis and Teka's post that XC is still very involved with Jasinlee but want nothing to do with his baggage.  If anyone has any questions about this I can pull a dozen quotes out of my ass to support that statement. 

At the VERY VERY end of this when they feel they have not adequately defended Jasinlee's reputation enough to keep it from causing damage to their coin.  They switched their stories and say this.

No your missing the point, Jasin was never an XC delevoper

As far as I'm concerned Jasinlee was listed on the website as a dev.  Everybody defends him.  When they realize there is truth to allegations the LEAD developer of XC decides to lie about if he was ever a developer on the XC project.

[Viper1]

Soon after XC came up in a thread on the normal litecoin forum.  I brought up that Jasinlee was the #2 core dev (it looked like it - he was listed on the website right next to Dan in the developer section).  Dan popped in and said "Do you SEE HIM LISTED as a core dev?  No you don't."  Soon after that Jasinlee was taken off of the website.

I'll just leave this here since the XC team seems to want to rewrite history.  The one thing I really dislike is when people spout some morally superior ethics and then try and hide things.  I also find it strange that the website blocks robots like archive.org from crawling it.  That's always a sign people want to hide things, especially historic things that could be used against them in the future.

http://xc-official.com/assets/pdfs/14-07-08%20The%20XC%20Team.pdf

[CryptoGretzky]

Soon after XC came up in a thread on the normal litecoin forum.  I brought up that Jasinlee was the #2 core dev (it looked like it - he was listed on the website right next to Dan in the developer section).  Dan popped in and said "Do you SEE HIM LISTED as a core dev?  No you don't."  Soon after that Jasinlee was taken off of the website.

I'll just leave this here since the XC team seems to want to rewrite history.  The one thing I really dislike is when people spout some morally superior ethics and then try and hide things.

http://xc-official.com/assets/pdfs/14-07-08%20The%20XC%20Team.pdf

Man no wonder you guys got ripped off of your btc.   You guys are dumb as a rock.   

Do you see anything listed in there that is a contribution to XC?    Maybe that's why he's no longer listed as a XC team member....  He hasn't contributed anything yet.  Seriously, go back to school or something.  You guys don't seem to have much IQ.    Really need to smarten up so you don't get ripped off again in the future by some Nigerian prince or something.

Oh, and how many times do people need to tell you this...   if you feel you got scammed, SUE... whining about it in a forum is not going to get you anywhere.   Nobody else on the forum can get your money back.   If someone is a scammer, they are not going to sit there and wait for you.   Take action now or do you still live in your mom's basement and she's mad at you for losing her money and you don't know how to contact the police or whatever?

[rdnkjdi]

Soon after XC came up in a thread on the normal litecoin forum.  I brought up that Jasinlee was the #2 core dev (it looked like it - he was listed on the website right next to Dan in the developer section).  Dan popped in and said "Do you SEE HIM LISTED as a core dev?  No you don't."  Soon after that Jasinlee was taken off of the website.

I'll just leave this here since the XC team seems to want to rewrite history.  The one thing I really dislike is when people spout some morally superior ethics and then try and hide things.

http://xc-official.com/assets/pdfs/14-07-08%20The%20XC%20Team.pdf

Man no wonder you guys got ripped off of your btc.   You guys are dumb as a rock.   

Do you see anything listed in there that is a contribution to XC?    Maybe that's why he's no longer listed as a XC team member....  He hasn't contributed anything yet.  Seriously, go back to school or something.  You guys don't seem to have much IQ.    Really need to smarten up so you don't get ripped off again in the future by some Nigerian prince or something.

Oh, and how many times do people need to tell you this...   if you feel you got scammed, SUE... whining about it in a forum is not going to get you anywhere.   Nobody else on the forum can get your money back.   If someone is a scammer, they are not going to sit there and wait for you.   Take action now or do you still live in your mom's basement and she's mad at you for losing her money and you don't know how to contact the police or whatever?

While I can appreciate the insults (once again pretty much all I get from the XC people) - the following is a quote from Teka

Jasin's work and experience is beneficial to XC. So far his experience and coding in regards to XC have been extremely useful for the project.

[CryptoGretzky]

PRO TIPS for not what to do when you get scammed on the net...

1. Just whine about it on a forum full of anonymous people that can't help instead of calling the authority
2. Drag other people that have nothing to with it down with you so those people would REALLY give a shit about you being scammed
3. Repeat step 1-2 twenty plus times a day

[Viper1]

Man no wonder you guys ....

Anything you might have to say regarding XC can safely be ignored since it would be completely self serving.

+1 to this.  I am holding a LOT of this coin.  Not going to sell.   This is way better than those other crap coins that go through the roof.    When this dev gets through with it, I have a feeling it's going to be the best coin out of all of them.   Just hope I can accumulate more before that happens.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600706.msg6845023#msg6845023

And by the way.  I have no stake in all this (wasn't involved with the ASIC stuff, not involved with XC, not seriously involved with any specific "competitor"), just putting out facts.

[CryptoGretzky]

Man no wonder you guys ....

Anything you might have to say regarding XC can safely be ignored since it would be completely self serving.

+1 to this.  I am holding a LOT of this coin.  Not going to sell.   This is way better than those other crap coins that go through the roof.    When this dev gets through with it, I have a feeling it's going to be the best coin out of all of them.   Just hope I can accumulate more before that happens.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600706.msg6845023#msg6845023

And by the way.  I have no stake in all this (wasn't involved with the ASIC stuff, not involved with XC, not seriously involved with any specific "competitor"), just putting out facts.

Ya... again repeating the dumb as a rock comment.  You see my sig right and my recent posts...   Do I hide the fact that I am a XC advocate/investor?   You make it sound like you made a huge discovery or something....

[synechist]

Man no wonder you guys ....

Anything you might have to say regarding XC can safely be ignored since it would be completely self serving.

+1 to this.  I am holding a LOT of this coin.  Not going to sell.   This is way better than those other crap coins that go through the roof.    When this dev gets through with it, I have a feeling it's going to be the best coin out of all of them.   Just hope I can accumulate more before that happens.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600706.msg6845023#msg6845023

And by the way.  I have no stake in all this (wasn't involved with the ASIC stuff, not involved with XC, not seriously involved with any specific "competitor"), just putting out facts.

This post is known as an ad hominen argument. Google it.

[Viper1]

Man no wonder you guys ....

Anything you might have to say regarding XC can safely be ignored since it would be completely self serving.

+1 to this.  I am holding a LOT of this coin.  Not going to sell.   This is way better than those other crap coins that go through the roof.    When this dev gets through with it, I have a feeling it's going to be the best coin out of all of them.   Just hope I can accumulate more before that happens.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600706.msg6845023#msg6845023

And by the way.  I have no stake in all this (wasn't involved with the ASIC stuff, not involved with XC, not seriously involved with any specific "competitor"), just putting out facts.

Ya... again repeating the dumb as a rock comment.  You see my sig right and my recent posts...   Do I hide the fact that I am a XC advocate/investor?   You make it sound like you made a huge discovery or something....

In what way am I "dumb as a rock"?  Can't argue with XC's own document.  Seems as if you're the one that has problems due to your puppy dog blinders.

[synechist]

Man no wonder you guys ....

Anything you might have to say regarding XC can safely be ignored since it would be completely self serving.

+1 to this.  I am holding a LOT of this coin.  Not going to sell.   This is way better than those other crap coins that go through the roof.    When this dev gets through with it, I have a feeling it's going to be the best coin out of all of them.   Just hope I can accumulate more before that happens.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600706.msg6845023#msg6845023

And by the way.  I have no stake in all this (wasn't involved with the ASIC stuff, not involved with XC, not seriously involved with any specific "competitor"), just putting out facts.

Ya... again repeating the dumb as a rock comment.  You see my sig right and my recent posts...   Do I hide the fact that I am a XC advocate/investor?   You make it sound like you made a huge discovery or something....

In what way am I "dumb as a rock"?  Can't argue with XC's own document.  Seems as if you're the one that has problems due to your puppy dog blinders.

You might notice that the pdf is dated 8 July. It's out of date.

XC will make a statement tomorrow regarding Jasinlee's prior position and role in XC, and his current relation to XC.

In the time preceding that, you may say what you want to.

[Viper1]

Man no wonder you guys ....

Anything you might have to say regarding XC can safely be ignored since it would be completely self serving.

+1 to this.  I am holding a LOT of this coin.  Not going to sell.   This is way better than those other crap coins that go through the roof.    When this dev gets through with it, I have a feeling it's going to be the best coin out of all of them.   Just hope I can accumulate more before that happens.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600706.msg6845023#msg6845023

And by the way.  I have no stake in all this (wasn't involved with the ASIC stuff, not involved with XC, not seriously involved with any specific "competitor"), just putting out facts.

Ya... again repeating the dumb as a rock comment.  You see my sig right and my recent posts...   Do I hide the fact that I am a XC advocate/investor?   You make it sound like you made a huge discovery or something....

In what way am I "dumb as a rock"?  Can't argue with XC's own document.  Seems as if you're the one that has problems due to your puppy dog blinders.

You might notice that the pdf is dated 8 July. It's out of date.

XC will make a statement tomorrow regarding Jasinlee's prior position and role in XC, and his current relation to XC.

In the time preceding that, you may say what you want to.

Oh my lord. You're FINALLY going do what you should have done in your very first post in this thread instead of letting your obvious friendship with Jasin prevent you from doing your job.  For someone who likes to present himself as superiorly intelligent it sure took you long enough to figure out how to do your job.

[rdnkjdi]

You might notice that the pdf is dated 8 July. It's out of date.

XC will make a statement tomorrow regarding Jasinlee's prior position and role in XC, and his current relation to XC.

In the time preceding that, you may say what you want to.

While I am sure the statement won't be directed towards convincing me.  XC has lost all credibility in my eyes by first attempting to discredit me with name calling, ignoring my evidence and proof by saying I had none, denying it was their problem in any way, the lastly denying Jasin ever had any development involvement (lead dev dan said this)

Say whatever you want.  I'll include it in the OP if you'd like.

[vipgelsi]

This is why i never pre order anything.

[TheMage]

Whoa there!!!!

Can someone please link me to the "proof" that Jasin' been naughty? I find it hard to believe.

And I can tell you without a single shred of doubt that the Cachecoin dev is not in anyway linked with any shady shit.

Very naughty ; )

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2702.0
No proof there, tho.
But some things do look.. u know.. weird ; )

Fib ASIC marketing was nice - aim at forum members, LTC defense blah-blah, 'trusted' distribution.
Most of concerns raised were flagged as 'trolling'/'FUD'/'shill attacks' and sometimes post deleted.
Also - 'we are not forcing you to buy our Fib ASIC' type answer was used frequently to answer some of the concerns ; )

Litecointalk forum moderators were made involved by making some of them 'trusted hosts'. And ofc it is very hard to separate your private interest from public forum moderation. This resulted in biased(imo) mods actions in Fib ASIC threads and other ASIC manufacturers threads. As in - in Fib thread mods were making warning and deleting(?) 'concerns' as fud/trolling and posting similar 'concerns' in other threads by themselves ; ) To confirm read all posts of mods in all AISC threads.. (yeah it's very annoying, but funny).

CACHE.. Jasin started accepting CacheCoin as a payment for Fib ASIC at a fixed price, higher than on the exchanges. Some members on bitcointalk and litecointalk had "ASIC coin" in their signatures. CacheCoin exchange rate went up. If I'm not mistaken litecontalk moderator Sy had huge ammount of Cache(mined?) so he bought a lot of Fib ASICs. After Fib stopped accepting Cache exchange rate plummeted down.
Some ppl claim that this was an intentional pump&dump of Cache and that the developer of Cache was involved. Cache dev(kalgecin) and jasin apparently were working together(?) on some Cache features and jasin occasinally made claims that he is very interested in Cache(and XC) and has some plans for it.
At the time, the proof from jasin that is was not pump&dump I've read was that he has not sold any Cache received for the ASICs. However to gain profit from this possible p&d you don't necessarily need to sell aquired Cache, you just need to make enough profit on Cache rate fluctuation you knew in advance and number of ASICs you can buy with Cache was intentionally limited. Also there were some allegations(with proof) that jasin wife sold some Cache prior the pump.

Also Fib ASICs were not sold as actual asics instead they were sold as hardware shares also Fib profit shares were sold.
Exchange was promised for those to be implemented. It was never completed cause.. jasin said dev run away. There is also no proof that it ever was developed. Also defense line - 'we make ASICs no websites' was used to 'calm down' ppl concerned that Fib site is buggy and exchange is not completed yet ; ) And ofc that ppl are trolling and are shills of the competitors and that they are not developers and don't understand how much effort it takes to make and test a web site ; )

What's funny is that long before Fib began sales there was a talk that practice of giving money to 'trusted' ppl should be stopped. mmitech(litecointalk) argued that there are enough cases when 'trusted' ppl collected vast ammounts of BTC and dissapeared after. At the time Jasin said that comparison is wrong, cause he have not collected any money yet ; ) Well.. now he has ; )

After 'fud' of corrupted litecointalk mods, admins and LiteCoin association spread, TheMage(litecointalk mod) organised a meeting with Jasin where some 'trusted' ppl representing investors were allowed to ask Jasin some questions. Some of the info was not made public, cause Jasin said it is a part of NDA between him and ASIC chip designers. However, total ammount of planned ASIC chips was made public - ppl counted their orders and realised that planned ammount is much(?) less.
Also coversation revealed the fact that Fib is still on ASIC prototyping/simulation stage. This is odd cause when KNC announced their scrypt ASIC, Fib raised  performance, claiming that they have been designing ASIC for years and that at first they revealed well below performance number not to spook competitors. Again concerns were either marked as trolling/fud and partially answered with 'we have genious salsa dev'.
Also Jasin claimed that ASIC design company(or fab?!) is not aware that they are designing ASIC to be used for litecoin mining and that it was deliberately made secret, because they hate everything about the cryptos and won't do the job if they knew.

Hi lbr! And everyone else here .


I just want to make sure that everyone knows, my involvement was purely to set up the investors meeting as a non-biased organizer in order to help the community get some answers. rdnkjdi can you update your OP to reflect that? Thank you


I will say this (and yes I know this will make it back to the fib thread haha). It would be nicer if Jasin were to post updates more frequently.

[adhitthana]

The best i can figure out is that although Jasin appeared to be listed as a developer, he was a developer of Cache coin not XC. Though this could have been clearer.
Jasin was a "consultant". https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.msg7451279#msg7451279

In the most simple terms we are a collaborating with Cache (hence why jAsin is a consultant) on cool new tech. Coins remain different.

Two coins are needed for POBC and so I assume Jasin was the dev for Cache and Dan the dev for XC.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.msg7451922#msg7451922

You are misunderstanding that they need to be separate to make PoBC function. This will change the way coims are used from being a niche to giving everyone access to crypto. This is about adoption, if you cannot see the benefits of mass adoption then why do we bother with any coins?

Anyway I hope the announcement tomorrow makes it all clear.

[synechist]

Oh my lord. You're FINALLY going do what you should have done in your very first post in this thread instead of letting your obvious friendship with Jasin prevent you from doing your job.  For someone who likes to present himself as superiorly intelligent it sure took you long enough to figure out how to do your job.

I have never met Jasin in person.

XC has made three statements on Jasinlee prior to this, but since people continue to wilfully ignore what we say, we'll make another one.

[adhitthana]

XC has made three statements on Jasinlee prior to this, but since people continue to wilfully ignore what we say, we'll make another one.

I'm baffled why you didn't link to those statements.  
Show me these statements rather than accusing me of ignoring them.

[cryptohunter]

i like these kind of threads usually....

However, on this occasion it seems the XC side of it is being played up a little too much.

Yes if Jasin lee is a known and confirmed scammer he needs to be cut from any association with XC immediately.

This thread should be dedicated to Jasin lee directly. I think trying to leverage using XC is in poor taste.


Why not just have a huge debate here on the facts that demostrate jasin lee is a scammer?? 

Yes XC needs to distance themselves at once no excuses or bullshit. If he was prove innocent then he can return i guess to helping with XC.

XC spokesmen need to just own up... did you say he was part of the team before? was he part of the team? did he have access to xc source code? can he port this to cache coin?

Yeah perhaps you have made an error of judgement with jasin lee, own up , move on. 

If he is a scammer then just keep creating threads here highlighting the facts until everyone knows about it. 

Is jasin lee a 100% proven scammer? or is he unethical? i mean surely it is better to have a thread dedicated to establishing this first before we blacken by association other communities and developers.

Is it 100% established fact he is a scammer?

[Spoetnik]

Man no wonder you guys ....

Anything you might have to say regarding XC can safely be ignored since it would be completely self serving.

+1 to this.  I am holding a LOT of this coin.  Not going to sell.   This is way better than those other crap coins that go through the roof.    When this dev gets through with it, I have a feeling it's going to be the best coin out of all of them.   Just hope I can accumulate more before that happens.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600706.msg6845023#msg6845023

And by the way.  I have no stake in all this (wasn't involved with the ASIC stuff, not involved with XC, not seriously involved with any specific "competitor"), just putting out facts.

Ya... again repeating the dumb as a rock comment.  You see my sig right and my recent posts...   Do I hide the fact that I am a XC advocate/investor?   You make it sound like you made a huge discovery or something....

In what way am I "dumb as a rock"?  Can't argue with XC's own document.  Seems as if you're the one that has problems due to your puppy dog blinders.

You might notice that the pdf is dated 8 July. It's out of date.

XC will make a statement tomorrow regarding Jasinlee's prior position and role in XC, and his current relation to XC.

In the time preceding that, you may say what you want to.

Oh my lord. You're FINALLY going do what you should have done in your very first post in this thread instead of letting your obvious friendship with Jasin prevent you from doing your job.  For someone who likes to present himself as superiorly intelligent it sure took you long enough to figure out how to do your job.

friends or same guy with another account etc ?
there is like 350,000 accounts on this forum alone guys..

don't worry he is going to consult with "The Foundation"  

hey, piece of advice next time twatlets high on faggotry..

[rdnkjdi]

Is it 100% established fact he is a scammer?

If butterfly labs changed their website to a marketing site of xc.  And refused to talk about anything related to delivering ASICS.  How long until it would be considered a scam?  People couldn't even tell they were doing ASICS anymore and they quit posting?  A month?  Three months?

What if they had sold you the ASICS at a 30% discount for a coin that was now worth 1% of what you paid for it?  And they had SOLD the coin to you while they were pumping/offering the discounts that were no longer listed on there website?  And now they were offering refunds?

What's the burden of proof for "prooven scam"?  Someone please tell me.

[xdmlaser]

Man no wonder you guys ....

Anything you might have to say regarding XC can safely be ignored since it would be completely self serving.

+1 to this.  I am holding a LOT of this coin.  Not going to sell.   This is way better than those other crap coins that go through the roof.    When this dev gets through with it, I have a feeling it's going to be the best coin out of all of them.   Just hope I can accumulate more before that happens.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600706.msg6845023#msg6845023

And by the way.  I have no stake in all this (wasn't involved with the ASIC stuff, not involved with XC, not seriously involved with any specific "competitor"), just putting out facts.

This post is known as an ad hominen argument. Google it.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+ad+hominen%3F

[coins101]

i like these kind of threads usually....

However, on this occasion it seems the XC side of it is being played up a little too much.

Yes if Jasin lee is a known and confirmed scammer he needs to be cut from any association with XC immediately.

This thread should be dedicated to Jasin lee directly. I think trying to leverage using XC is in poor taste.


Why not just have a huge debate here on the facts that demostrate jasin lee is a scammer??  

Yes XC needs to distance themselves at once no excuses or bullshit. If he was prove innocent then he can return i guess to helping with XC.

XC spokesmen need to just own up... did you say he was part of the team before? was he part of the team? did he have access to xc source code? can he port this to cache coin?

Yeah perhaps you have made an error of judgement with jasin lee, own up , move on.  

If he is a scammer then just keep creating threads here highlighting the facts until everyone knows about it.  

Is jasin lee a 100% proven scammer? or is he unethical? i mean surely it is better to have a thread dedicated to establishing this first before we blacken by association other communities and developers.

Is it 100% established fact he is a scammer?

+101

Agree with this view.

I nearly purchased some shares in the Fib ASIC thing, and was also going to buy a few Epsilons or whatever they were called.

The move to accept CACHE caught me by surprise. I knew he had tried to buy some OTC from some early posts on the cachecoin thread (everyone was trying to get in on the privacy thing once Darkcoin's price started to go up), so as I was considering the purchase of shares I smelled something fishy and walked away. It did look like a way to push the cache price up.

I am surprised to see that the fib site, which took a lot of effort and many were waiting in anticipation for sales to go live on it, is not showing anything to do with ASICs. However, he may have moved that somewhere else. If he did, he should have emailed everyone. Anyone got any emails?

The ASICs company was set-up in some remote island somewhere off the coast of Africa. That didn't sound right either.

I have no idea if any of the accusations are true or false.  Posting to mainly to watch events unfold.

[rdnkjdi]

I am surprised to see that the fib site, which took a lot of effort and many were waiting in anticipation for sales to go live on it, is not showing anything to do with ASICs. However, he may have moved that somewhere else. If he did, he should have emailed everyone. Anyone got any emails?

He committed to having the ASIC purchase login area up over two weeks ago.  Any mention of ASICs have been removed for three or four weeks now I believe.

He took all statements regarding ASICs down.   He also never sent emails to purchasers for receipts - so any proof that we actually purchased ASICs from Jasin are personal screenshots.

[rdnkjdi]

Follwoing is XC's official statement related to Jasinlee.  They posted it on their chat thread and gave anyone 1 hour to ask questions.

Hello all

We would like to state the nature of XC's relation to Jasinlee.


Jasinlee is not an official member of the XC Team, as has been reflected on our website for some time.

Jasinlee chose to remove himself from the XC Team out of concern for the effect that ongoing misperceptions about his troubled ASIC project might have on XC.

As such, XC is entirely independent of Jasinlee’s various projects, and clients of the Fibonacci ASIC project have no basis for associating its outcome with XC in any way.


We consider this matter resolved. Now concerning a separate matter, that of public perceptions of Jasinlee’s character and actions, at no point has the XC Team had reason to lose faith in Jasinlee’s integrity of character or doubt his intentions, whether toward XC or toward Fibonacci. Furthermore Jasinlee is entirely confident that a resolution will be reached. As such we have confidence that Jasin will resolve the outstanding issues with the Fibonacci ASIC project. Furthermore we believe that current arguments to the contrary are poorly substantiated and largely speculative, and therefore lack sufficient warrant. Given their severity, these allegations are thus of a highly unethical nature.

Finally, regarding Jasinlee’s past role at XC, he is a thought-leader, and we are grateful for his insightful and energising contribution and presence. However Jasinlee did not make any contributions to XC’s code and has not had access to it. Thus he has not been a developer for XC.

In other news - it looks like Jasin paid their way for bitcoin on the beltway which co-incided with the ASIC orders.  So if Jasin is out of money for refunds at this point - it's likely he is financially linked to the company in using ASIC orders to promote the coin.

I'm not sure why he was listed as a dev on their website for months with the lead dev saying "He was never a developer. "

I think everyone has enough info to draw their own conclusions (if they want to take the time to read this obscenely long thread)

[synechist]

I'm not sure why he was listed as a dev on their website for months with the lead dev saying "He was never a developer. "

Jasinlee was listed as a dev on XC's website because he is a developer.

Jasinlee did not, however, write any code for XC or have access to XC's code. Thus he was never an XC developer.
Jasinlee only developed his own technologies, which could've potentially been used in XC in the longer-term future.

I've already said this more than three times while you were online.
Are you wilfully ignoring it so that you still have some FUD to spread about XC?

[rdnkjdi]

I'm not sure why he was listed as a dev on their website for months with the lead dev saying "He was never a developer. "

Jasinlee was listed as a dev on XC's website because he is a developer.

Jasinlee did not, however, write any code for XC or have access to XC's code. Thus he was never an XC developer.
Jasinlee only developed his own technologies, which could've potentially been used in XC in the longer-term future.

I've already said this more than three times while you were online.
Are you wilfully ignoring it so that you still have some FUD to spread about XC?

Thank you for your clarification.  Most companies don't list people as developers on their project who are not developers on their project.

Apologies for my misunderstanding.

Are you wilfully ignoring it so that you still have some FUD to spread about XC?

No - I've been as honest as I can possibly be in this thread.  He was listed as an XC dev for months on your website.  Now you say he was never a developer on any of your technologies.  As I said - most people only list people as "Developers" on their project if they are developers.

You guys seem to be a unique approach though.  Proven fraud (using the Cache pump example I've listed) you seem to prefer attacking the messengers who've lost thousands of dollars.

I've already said this more than three times while you were online.

 

The statements coming out of the XC camp seem to be more thrashing about for the best possible PR move.  I've heard he is a developer / isn't a developer / was never a developer / might be coming on full time all from the XC camp.  I believe some of those quotes are listed in my OP.

It was what I was told by your people that spurned me to make this thread (I'd assumed taken off the website = taken off the project until you guys confirmed he was still on the project in your chat thread)

I noticed you guys took off "ASIC Development Project" from his qualifications (or maybe he did) before removing him completely from the website

I do appreciate the "official statement".  Might want to make sure everybody is on board repeating the same thing.  

[CryptoGretzky]

rdnkjdi...   I think at this point, you are just a pure fudder.   You have had your 15 mins.  Now go back to your troll cave.    You have zero credibility left.

[coins101]

rdnkjdi...   I think at this point, you are just a pure fudder.   You have had your 15 mins.  Now go back to your troll cave.    You have zero credibility left.

Actually, provided he stops posting about XC, I'd be interested to hear some counter views from or with regards to JL.

[CryptoGretzky]

rdnkjdi...   I think at this point, you are just a pure fudder.   You have had your 15 mins.  Now go back to your troll cave.    You have zero credibility left.

Actually, provided he stops posting about XC, I'd be interested to hear some counter views from or with regards to JL.

If he make a new thread to just discuss about JL, it will actually help his case.   Right now, his fud on XC really is a disservice to his case against JL.   His post title is just pure misleading fud which really makes most of what he has to say not trustworthy.

[coins101]

rdnkjdi...   I think at this point, you are just a pure fudder.   You have had your 15 mins.  Now go back to your troll cave.    You have zero credibility left.

Actually, provided he stops posting about XC, I'd be interested to hear some counter views from or with regards to JL.

If he make a new thread to just discuss about JL, it will actually help his case.   Right now, his fud on XC really is a disservice to his case against JL.   His post title is just pure misleading fud which really makes most of what he has to say not trustworthy.

I tend to agree.

It looks like things are getting legal anyway:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21742.msg201802#msg201802

OP, IMO, better off just sticking to JL and being careful not to step on any legal issues.

edit

If you are out of pocket and fear getting your money back, just coordinate legal representations. As soon as you do that, I suspect they will tell you to stop posting anything which could harm his business interests and therefore his ability to repay, and therefore harm your cause.

[hoertest]

I too think the title should be changed by now or a new thread be opened.

would be the grown up thing to do,

rdnkjdi i understand your anger but i also understand how XC side didn't jump on your accusations right away. So to me both sides have some arguments, but as it stands right now as an XC investor i politely ask you to change the title and take XC out now.

i can't force you and you probably want to "punish" some people for approaching your concerns in a way you think was inapropriate. But i don't think this applies to all XC community even from your point of view.

the current title implies that you have an agenda beyond personal justice.

thank you

[synechist]

Now you say he was never a developer on any of your technologies.  As I said - most people only list people as "Developers" on their project if they are developers.

You guys seem to be a unique approach though.  Proven fraud (using the Cache pump example I've listed) you seem to prefer attacking the messengers who've lost thousands of dollars.

If you were less negatively disposed toward XC then the obvious would not have eluded you here:
- When Jasin was on the XC Team, the expectation was that his work would become XC tech in the longer term future.
- Hence "XC Developer".
- Nobody could've anticipated what happened with Fibonacci, and so we couldn't plan for that by titling him, prospectively, "Future-XC-developer-yet-already-on-the-team". So we just called him an XC developer.
- Then, of course, he stepped down at a point at which he'd not developed any of XC's code.
- And this entails that he never was, in actual fact, an XC developer.
- It is, however, entirely true that he was on the XC team and was listed as a developer.

It's pretty simple for those who aren't looking for every opportunity to confirm their conspiracy-theorism about, well, nothing at all.


"Proven fraud":
- do not make assertions about a disputable matter. In doing so, you both weaken your position and disrespect the views of other participants in the discussion.
- It's phrases like this that cause people to conclude that you're a "pure fudder".


Finally:
- we're not "attacking" those who've lost money, we're objecting to people like you, who've lost money and also act in damagingly and deceitfully unethical ways.

[synechist]

I too think the title should be changed by now or a new thread be opened.

would be the grown up thing to do,

rdnkjdi i understand your anger but i also understand how XC side didn't jump on your accusations right away. So to me both sides have some arguments, but as it stands right now as an XC investor i politely ask you to change the title and take XC out now.

i can't force you and you probably want to "punish" some people for approaching your concerns in a way you think was inapropriate. But i don't think this applies to all XC community even from your point of view.

the current title implies that you have an agenda beyond personal justice.

thank you

+1. Well said sir.

[rdnkjdi]

rdnkjdi...   I think at this point, you are just a pure fudder.   You have had your 15 mins.  Now go back to your troll cave.    You have zero credibility left.

Actually, provided he stops posting about XC, I'd be interested to hear some counter views from or with regards to JL.

If he make a new thread to just discuss about JL, it will actually help his case.   Right now, his fud on XC really is a disservice to his case against JL.   His post title is just pure misleading fud which really makes most of what he has to say not trustworthy.

I tend to agree.

It looks like things are getting legal anyway:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21742.msg201802#msg201802

OP, IMO, better off just sticking to JL and being careful not to step on any legal issues.

I would be more than happy to let this die.   These are the facts in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?

FUD or no FUD.  If the XC people had not confirmed Jasinlee's continued involvement in their coin on their chat thread.  And then come over here and defended him while trying to discredit me until it looked bad.  Then made claims he was "never a developer"

I would be more inclined to believe I wasn't being fed a pure line of bullshit.  Thread stays.  People can draw their own conclusions.  If I look like I've presented a horrible case and I'm embarrassing myself.  Then the XC loyal should happy.

[synechist]

rdnkjdi...   I think at this point, you are just a pure fudder.   You have had your 15 mins.  Now go back to your troll cave.    You have zero credibility left.

Actually, provided he stops posting about XC, I'd be interested to hear some counter views from or with regards to JL.

If he make a new thread to just discuss about JL, it will actually help his case.   Right now, his fud on XC really is a disservice to his case against JL.   His post title is just pure misleading fud which really makes most of what he has to say not trustworthy.

I tend to agree.

It looks like things are getting legal anyway:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21742.msg201802#msg201802

OP, IMO, better off just sticking to JL and being careful not to step on any legal issues.

I would be more than happy to let this die.   These are the facts wildly subjectively informed statements in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?

FUD or no FUD.  If the XC people had not confirmed Jasinlee's continued involvement in their coin on their chat thread.  And then come over here and defended him while trying to discredit me until it looked bad.  Then made claims he was "never a developer"

I would be more inclined to believe I wasn't being fed a pure line of bullshit.  Thread stays.  People can draw their own conclusions.  If I look like I've presented a horrible case and I'm embarrassing myself.  Then the XC loyal should happy.

Drop the issue. There's nothing further to be said. You've repeated yourself enough now.

[coins101]

Best of luck to you. I think the anger is possibly clouding some judgement.

Get some DRK, it'll make you whole in a month or two.

Stick to TheMadge for help.

On that note, I'm off: unwatched.

[rdnkjdi]

wildly subjectively informed statements

If everything I've said about Jasin is completely untrue.  Those # facts are backed up by - you know.   Official XC PDF documents, website history, posts that are quotable.

I love you think you can tell me what to do.  In a thread I created.  And rewrite history by making your fonts bigger  

Best of luck to you. I think the anger is possibly clouding some judgement.

Perhaps you are right.  I'd considered doing this thread before and decided it was not warranted.  Because Jasin was promoting XC with the ASIC website after taking it down.  But then decided it was unwarranted since their relationship appeared to be a one way relationship (Jasinlee -> XC) rather than a two way relationship.

Until XC people confirmed Jasin was still involved in the project.  They proudly said he was and I needed to GTFO off their chat thread until I publicly embarrassed them.  Then they decided he "wasn't involved"

The odd part is that I recently sold my miner shares (which don't even exist anymore with the current state of the website) to someone else (70% off the original purchase price ... better deal than my Cache refund).  I have nothing to gain if Jasinlee decides to rededicate his website from XC back to creating ASICs (Something I'm fairly convinced will never happen).

I'm just sick of seeing people getting away with ripping others off.  And sick of altcoins who don't give a shit if their devs are pure scammers.

I was told he was a dev a few days ago and see no substantive evidence he is not.  Otherwise there would not be the rabbid defense of them that there has been and the constant "He is a dev" "He's not a dev" "he was never a dev even though he was listed on the website as one" back and forth.

[CryptoGretzky]

So many rdnkjdi in this picture.

[rdnkjdi]

[IMG]Some mockery off topic humor.

The only alias I've posted about XC & Jasinlee has been my own (Welcome to look at rdnkjdi @ litecointalk).  

I can appreciate the humor and artwork.  

For the record - this was deleted from the XC chat thread because it summed up my complaint up too well.  Mocking and making pointless theories and accusations about me is "On topic" for this coin.  My explanations are not.  (Original post I was quoted in is still there - my response is not)

The salty tears caused by un-diversified bad investments.

No.  They are caused by lies and business practices that would land you in prison in a regulated world.

It's great to see the XC camp is still fully invested in Jasinlee's success.  

I lost way more putting money into a coin and I didn't have a problem with it.  Because I was not lied to.  And I was not used to extract 99% value out of the pump of a shitcoin and then offered a 1% refund in an extremely pre-meditated action.



P.S.  You guys expect me to go away but keep mis quoting my statements or the situation.  If you'll shut up about it I will.  (I would still like a statement that no money was received from Jasinlee post ASIC project funds being received by him)

[CryptoGretzky]

You can't be reasoned with....   You are like one of those loons you find in the conspiracy section of the psychiatric ward.

[rdnkjdi]

You can't be reasoned with....   You are like one of those loons you find in the conspiracy section of the psychiatric ward.

Yep - I'm just a butthurt ex ASIC buyer who got too greedy.  And deserved to be scammed.  

You get a gold star for shilling.  

Please quit posting here and let this thread drift off - I'm tired of seeing it on the front page.  

The attempts to discredit me have been repeated over and over again.  Posting it more won't help.

I've not stooped to the same namecalling that the XC PR team & shills attacking my character rather than dealing with the individual facts I have provided them with have chosen to do.  It is getting incredibly spammy.  And I feel the need to respond on this thread (which grows it beyond what anyone but myself and the XC shills are reading)

Please AT LEAST include cool artwork in more character attacks or just shut up.  I know you think I belong in a mental ward, I won't listen to reason, I was greedy and deserved to be scammed, etc etc etc.  Plz stop it - tired of seeing this thread at the top of the forum.

[gristlelump]

please PM me with any info you have on current or pending legal action against Jasinlee/Jason Hudgins and whether or not he has been reported to the DA in Florida and any business concerns regarding XC and CACHE.  Looks like this could be class action with as many people he is defrauding.

[rdnkjdi]

please PM me with any info you have on current or pending legal action against Jasinlee/Jason Hudgins and whether or not he has been reported to the DA in Florida and any business concerns regarding XC and CACHE.  Looks like this could be class action with as many people he is defrauding.

I'm posting this here for the benefit of anyone else paying attention. 

PM Atomicchaos for the details of the legal action being taken and how you can get involved.

[robinwilliams]

please PM me with any info you have on current or pending legal action against Jasinlee/Jason Hudgins and whether or not he has been reported to the DA in Florida and any business concerns regarding XC and CACHE.  Looks like this could be class action with as many people he is defrauding.

I'm posting this here for the benefit of anyone else paying attention. 

PM Atomicchaos for the details of the legal action being taken and how you can get involved.

Why do I keep seeing this stupid thread.  plz ur butthurt.  we get it ... go cry somewhere else.  so fkn stupid this is on the front page all the time - can a mod lock this plz? 

Oh wait - not board moderation so we all have 2 see this stupid shit.   

cry lil b*** ... cry     

[synechist]

Jasinlee is not an XC developer.

Please change the title of this thread to reflect this.


Thank you.

[rdnkjdi]

Jasinlee is not an XC developer.

Please change the title of this thread to reflect this.


Thank you.

I have no idea why you keep bumping this - my preference is that it drift to the bottom.  

I've been given conflicting information multiple times by XC officials as well as your stupid wordy pointless semantics trying to salvage Jasin's reputation by deflection or insults directed at me which leads me to believe you're not being honest.

I also asked that Teka be the one to request any changes.

You also seem to think you can dictate what I write in a thread I created.

Get lost.

[demgains]

I'd love to hear business concerns regarding XC. It's a joke that this thread has gotten this far and has come to the point where people are mentioning XC in the same sentence with 'legal action' and 'business concerns'. Seeing how OP has actually tried so hard to bring down XC's legitimacy and transparency (even though it is a completely exclusive entity to Jasinlee and his project), I suddenly don't feel that bad that OP was scammed out of his money. He was tolerable at first, and I genuinely felt bad...but now it is becoming defamation of XC and I couldn't care less that you lost money because of your on-going bullshit that you will not put at rest when XC already made its statement regarding the issue.

[rdnkjdi]

I'd love to hear business concerns regarding XC. It's a joke that this thread has gotten this far and has come to the point where people are mentioning XC in the same sentence with 'legal action' and 'business concerns'. Seeing how OP has actually tried so hard to bring down XC's legitimacy and transparency (even though it is a completely exclusive entity to Jasinlee and his project), I suddenly don't feel that bad that OP was scammed out of his money. He was tolerable at first, and I genuinely felt bad...but now it is becoming defamation of XC and I couldn't care less that you lost money because of your on-going bullshit that you will not put at rest when XC already made its statement regarding the issue.

Understand the difference between "business concerns" and "reputational concerns".  In any business world they are often one and the same.

I'm so tired of repeating myself to answer stuff like "OP deserved to be scammed out of his money because he's an asshat blah blah blah"

Yes!  XC is NOT Jasinlee.  Jasinlee IS/WAS a developer for XC (not sure which).  Following are the facts.  Have to keep repeating myself cuz you guys won't let it die.

I would be more than happy to let this die.   These are the facts in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?

Now.  For the love of god.  Can we please let this die?  This is my thread about Jasin/XC (not if I deserved to be scammed).  

These are my opinions - they won't change.

[hoertest]

look you really wanna let this die you have to take xc out of the title cause what you probably don't realisy anybody who has some competing coin or other reason to hurt xc a little just has to bump this thread to keep it on the first page and thats what they will do. people that have nothing to do with your issue or the discussion will abuse your situation to their own agenda.

I kindly asked you before to change the title, see my earlier post, i always tried to be respectfull to you and understanding to you personal situation.

Really right know if you still want to be percieved as a grown up that trys to deal with his situation rather than a Fuder or butthurt investment looser (not what i call you), please please change that title. otherwise it will come back for ages and you are making the dirty work for real FUDers. Think about it for a minute.

thank you

[rdnkjdi]

look you really wanna let this die you have to take xc out of the title cause what you probably don't realisy anybody who has some competing coin or other reason to hurt xc a little just has to bump this thread to keep it on the first page and thats what they will do. people that have nothing to do with your issue or the discussion will abuse your situation to their own agenda.

I kindly asked you before to change the title, see my earlier post, i always tried to be respectfull to you and understanding to you personal situation.

Really right know if you still want to be percieved as a grown up that trys to deal with his situation rather than a Fuder or butthurt investment looser (not what i call you), please please change that title. otherwise it will come back for ages and you are making the dirty work for real FUDers. Think about it for a minute.

thank you

It's XC people (your PR guy, people telling me I deserved to be scammed, etc etc) who keep bumping this.

Edit:  I'm so tired of responding to this.  If it is CLEARLY being bumped by fudsters which it has NOT - only XC people.  I will request forum moderators lock it.

[hoertest]

look you really wanna let this die you have to take xc out of the title cause what you probably don't realisy anybody who has some competing coin or other reason to hurt xc a little just has to bump this thread to keep it on the first page and thats what they will do. people that have nothing to do with your issue or the discussion will abuse your situation to their own agenda.

I kindly asked you before to change the title, see my earlier post, i always tried to be respectfull to you and understanding to you personal situation.

Really right know if you still want to be percieved as a grown up that trys to deal with his situation rather than a Fuder or butthurt investment looser (not what i call you), please please change that title. otherwise it will come back for ages and you are making the dirty work for real FUDers. Think about it for a minute.

thank you

It's XC people (your PR guy, people telling me I deserved to be scammed, etc etc) who keep bumping this.

Edit:  I'm so tired of responding to this.  If it is CLEARLY being bumped by fudsters which it has NOT - only XC people.  I will request forum moderators lock it.

and now again one of us  , it was more a future projection , see my posts regarding your this situation, i don't think you deserved to be scammed neither do i think you deserve what will happen next. all FUDers who wanna hurt XC will do it on your back making you look more and more like a FUDding idiot.

I just think the title is not ok like that anymore so one last time with all respect from a xc community member i'll ask you to put your personal anger towards probably some of us aside and take XC out of the title. at this point in time i think it would actually help your case.

last try i promise, i have faith in you over here, come on 

thank you

[rdnkjdi]

all respect from a xc community member

Listen man.  I really have no animosity towards you.  Or anyone in the XC community who is not Jasinlee. 

However I've been repeatedly told I'm irrational, can't listen to basic reason, deserved to be scammed, blah blah blah.  See this thread -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=771271.0

My concerns were never addressed seriously.  I was told to go away, Jasinlee was fine.  Then I was told I was not providing any evidence even though I was because your PR guy had no interest in actually ABSORBING what I had to say.  You are the ONLY person who has actually rationally appealed to me to take this off.  The thread I listed above is more of the consensus of the XC community.  That I'm a raving mad lunatic who deserved to be scammed.

Until now it's been you guys bumping it trying to assassinate my character (he's crazy ... belongs in a mental ward ... blah blah blah.

I'm completely willing to let this thread sink to the bottom.  And I'm willing to have the moderators lock it if it gets bumped by competing coins. 

I feel this is an incredibly reasonable offer reflecting on the XC's overall stance on this issue. 

I'm simply not willing to dilute my opinions in the OP/title.  Especially in light of the repeated insults which seem to have been the consensus of the XC community. 

P.S.  Yours is probably the lone voice of reason/niceness that actually MAKES SENSE in how to deal/respond with a PR issue where a dev has cost people a LOT of money.  They should hire you for PR.

[braxx]

XC has taken a official stance in case of jasinlee...

Statement on XC's relation to Jasinlee


Hello all

We would like to state the nature of XC's relation to Jasinlee.


Jasinlee is not an official member of the XC Team, as has been reflected on our website for some time.

Jasinlee chose to remove himself from the XC Team out of concern for the effect that ongoing misperceptions about his troubled ASIC project might have on XC.

As such, XC is entirely independent of Jasinlee’s various projects, and clients of the Fibonacci ASIC project have no basis for associating its outcome with XC in any way.


We consider this matter resolved. Now concerning a separate matter, that of public perceptions of Jasinlee’s character and actions, at no point has the XC Team had reason to lose faith in Jasinlee’s integrity of character or doubt his intentions, whether toward XC or toward Fibonacci. Furthermore Jasinlee is entirely confident that a resolution will be reached. As such we have confidence that Jasin will resolve the outstanding issues with the Fibonacci ASIC project. Furthermore we believe that current arguments to the contrary are poorly substantiated and largely speculative, and therefore lack sufficient warrant. Given their severity, these allegations are thus of a highly unethical nature.

Finally, regarding Jasinlee’s past role at XC, he is a thought-leader, and we are grateful for his insightful and energising contribution and presence. However Jasinlee did not make any contributions to XC’s code and has not had access to it. Thus he has not been a developer for XC.

why do you think it keeps "bumped" by xc-people??
isn't " Jasinlee - one of XC's Developers is a master fraudster" clear enough for you?
you are literally attacking the base of XC
so please... read the official stance from XC again... reflect yourself... reflect again...
and remove XC from the title...

I understand you frustrations about the asic and the cache-coin issues... It is the risk of pre-ordering and crypto-businnes (as many of us probably has encountered). You certainly didn't deserve it... but it happened. So as many times stated by multiple persons... If you feel that someone has scammed you, you must sue him.

greetings
Braxx - a XC-member from the mining days

[rdnkjdi]

On the 5th he was a "team member".

They now claim he has not been a team member for quite some time.

Pardon my skepticism.  If you're going to lie - make it consistent.

My OP was reflected to be EXACTLY what Teka said. 

I have no idea how I can be more reasonable for you guys.

Reserved for further info.


Jasin is a part of the team and his work as well as his experience has been useful towards XCs development. We have no control over the Fibonacci site and never asked him to put the XC brand on the site. Also it seems like that site is used to promote Jasin's projects rather than XC.

Jasin's current projects (at the expense of those of us who have funded his time/effort are)

#1 - XCurrency.
#2 - Cachecoin.

XCurrency is not Jasin, he's a team member and thats it.

[mr_random]

Regardless of whether Jasinlee was or wasn't a developer the fact is he isn't on the XC team anymore. OP isn't retarded and knows this - what does this say about the OP and his intentions here, if they are not already obvious.

Hence the title is completely incorrect.

To get further into it, the XC team have clarified that Jasinlee didn't contribute a single line of code to XC and Jasinlee received no funds from the XC team. He was potentially going to do work with XC in the future in partnership with Cache, which never came into fruition as it was a long term plan in the distant future.

[rdnkjdi]

On the 5th - an official says he is a team member.  Which corroborates what I was told on the chat thread until I made this one.

On the 9th - it is told that he has not been a team member since he was taken off the website months ago.

Pardon my skepticism.

[mr_random]

On the 5th - an official says he is a team member.  Which corroborates what I was told on the chat thread until I made this one.

On the 9th - it is told that he has not been a team member since he was taken off the website months ago.

Pardon my skepticism.

Regardless of whether Jasinlee was or wasn't a developer the fact is he isn't on the XC team anymore. OP isn't retarded and knows this - what does this say about the OP and his intentions here, if they are not already obvious.

[gristlelump]

Jasinlee is not an XC developer.

Please change the title of this thread to reflect this.


Thank you.

We'll let the lawyers and DA discern your involvement.  I'm sure with all the posts you've been making regarding Jason, they'll be crawling up your ass with a fine toothed comb.

[rdnkjdi]

On the 5th - an official says he is a team member.  Which corroborates what I was told on the chat thread until I made this one.

On the 9th - it is told that he has not been a team member since he was taken off the website months ago.

Pardon my skepticism.

Regardless of whether Jasinlee was or wasn't a developer the fact is he isn't on the XC team anymore. OP isn't retarded and knows this - what does this say about the OP and his intentions here, if they are not already obvious.

If they lied in their "official announcement" the it matters not what my "intentions" are.

A - "He is a team member" (5th)
B - "He has not been a team member since he was taken off website (months ago)" (9th)

C - Either they lied that he "was" a team member on the 5th.  Or they lied that he was not a team member since they took him off the website (9th in official statement).  Hence I believe nothing.  If others wish to believe/invest in a coin that has officials who lie (& can't even get their stories straight) that is their business.  

I've changed the topic to Team Member in light of all the requests (contrary to all the shit that's been said about me I try to be honest and change the OP to reflect that)

I am not an extension of the XC promotional/marketing team and my OP/Title doesn't reflect that.  Sorry.  If you associate with scammers you deserve the reputation hit. 

[Zombier0]

Im so glad I didnt join this presale

[hoertest]

Ah come on , so its personal, i kind of understand that but i also understand the XC PR side of the story.  
As it stands now the title is factual wrong and that will not strengthen your case.
now i bumped it again see what you do to me  
hope you change your mind its just not correct the way it reads now, and overall its not ok or justified either.
really last try, good night

[rdnkjdi]

Ah come on , so its personal, i kind of understand that but i also understand the XC PR side of the story.  
As it stands now the title is factual wrong and that will not strengthen your case.
now i bumped it again see what you do to me  
hope you change your mind its just not correct the way it reads now, and overall its not ok or justified either.
really last try, good night

I'm trying to be as reasonable AND honest about all this as I possibly can - I swear.  Have a good evening.

[hoertest]

 just saw the "mildification" , thank you,
i don't wanna sound ungratefull now but as long as XC is in the title my argumentation has to stand. hope you can understand me a bit too

good night

[mr_random]

On the 5th - an official says he is a team member.  Which corroborates what I was told on the chat thread until I made this one.

On the 9th - it is told that he has not been a team member since he was taken off the website months ago.

Pardon my skepticism.

Regardless of whether Jasinlee was or wasn't a developer the fact is he isn't on the XC team anymore. OP isn't retarded and knows this - what does this say about the OP and his intentions here, if they are not already obvious.

If they lied in their "official announcement" the it matters not what my "intentions" are.

A - "He is a team member" (5th)
B - "He has not been a team member since he was taken off website (months ago)" (9th)
C - Either they lied that he "was" a team member on the 5th.  Or they lied that he is no longer a team member.  Hence I believe nothing.  If others wish to believe/invest in a coin that has officials who lie (& can't even get their stories straight) that is their business.  

I've changed the topic to Team Member in light of all the requests (contrary to all the shit that's been said about me I try to be honest and I try to figure out the truth and change the OP to reflect that)

Or D. Someone on the team made a mistake. It's a highly complex project with a large team of people.

Bottom line is the XC lead developer has told you Jasinlee is not on the XC team anymore. Yet you refuse to accept this? The only reason you refuse to accept this simple obvious truth is because it will leave you with nothing to cry about. So you pretend like somehow there is a crazy conspiracy of Jasinee still secretly on the XC team?  

You are just pissed you've lost money in something involving Jasinlee and are childishly lashing out at anything you can. I feel pity for you that you're a 28 year old man who is making these embarrassing posts, I assumed it was a 16 year old.

[rdnkjdi]

*Sigh* The CONTINUED character assassination.  Fine - you wanna play ball?

Or D. Someone on the team made a mistake. It's a highly complex project with a large team of people.

No.  It's not.  There are three people.  Dan, Teka and Synchillies (& used to be Jasin).  It's a circlejerking closed source pump and dump that only holds it's market cap because people are hodling waiting for Dan to take them to the moon and has no downward pressure from mining.  While he's having to moonlight and pump other coins with "coin reviews" to make ends meet.

Bottom line is the XC lead developer has told you Jasinlee is not on the XC team anymore.

Actually - the lead developer told me twice in the XC chat thread he was never a developer.  He never explained why he was listed as a developer on your website a month ago.  Or why they took the ASIC project off Jasin's list of credentials.  

Yet you refuse to accept this?

Yes.  Because I've shown it is a lie.  Other officials said Jasin was a team member (or developer).  From what I can tell - Jasin was probably kinda on the outside of the project and good buddies with one of the official team members and thought he had stuff to contribute.  Maybe he designed the website or something (purely my guess - I have no idea)

The only reason you refuse to accept this simple obvious truth is because it will leave you with nothing to cry about.

I sold my shares for a 5K loss weeks ago.  I had no intention of making this thread until I saw you guys talking about Jasinlee and his XC project in the XC thread.  

So you pretend like somehow there is a crazy conspiracy of Jasinee still secretly on the XC team?  Cheesy

When people can't get their lies straight - then yeah.

You are just pissed you've lost money in something involving Jasinlee and are childishly lashing out at anything you can.

No.  I am not.  I never lashed out even though Jasin changed the ASIC website to promote XC/Cachecoin until you guys started posting about him.  I'm "lashing out" because I don't feel that it's right for someone to scam dozens out of thousands of dollars and get away with it moving on to the next coin/project.

I feel pity for you that you're a 28 year old man who is making these embarrassing posts, I assumed it was a 16 year old.

I lie about my age. why does it matter? I have no idea how that has relevance.  Unlike the circlejerk of a moderated thread XC has - this one is open for anyone to make stupidass comments that have nothing to do with anything I suppose.

[demgains]

Jasinlee is not an XC developer.

Please change the title of this thread to reflect this.


Thank you.

We'll let the lawyers and DA discern your involvement.  I'm sure with all the posts you've been making regarding Jason, they'll be crawling up your ass with a fine toothed comb.

good luck on that endeavour buddy. More money will be wasted.

[synechist]

Some factually incorrect statements:

Or D. Someone on the team made a mistake. It's a highly complex project with a large team of people.

No.  It's not.  There are three people.  Dan, Teka and Synchillies (& used to be Jasin).

- Not three people. 10 official ones, and several developers working for Dan.

Bottom line is the XC lead developer has told you Jasinlee is not on the XC team anymore.

Actually - the lead developer told me twice in the XC chat thread he was never a developer.  He never explained why he was listed as a developer on your website a month ago.

- We explained precisely the respect in which Jasin was never an XC developer in our official statement: he never developed XC's code.
- We also explained why Jasin was listed as a developer when he was in the team: because he is a developer in his own right, and he was on the team. (He just didn't develop for XC.)
- I also stated this to you at least two other times.
- Do you still refuse to comprehend?

Yet you refuse to accept this?

Yes.  Because I've shown it is a lie.  Other officials said Jasin was a team member (or developer).  From what I can tell - Jasin was probably kinda on the outside of the project and good buddies with one of the official team members and thought he had stuff to contribute.  Maybe he designed the website or something (purely my guess - I have no idea)

- No, it's as plain as day, but you refuse to see it.
- The above paragraph is based on personal opinion and speculation.
- What possible reason do you have to favour your own personal speculation over a clear case to the contrary?
- Without being able to observe your intentions, you come across like a desperate fudder with little to go on.

So you pretend like somehow there is a crazy conspiracy of Jasinee still secretly on the XC team?  Cheesy

When people can't get their lies straight - then yeah.

- I have painstakingly explained to you repeatedly and precisely the way in which our statements are consistent.
- Lots of other people have repeatedly said to you that you're not seeing things clearly because you don't want to.
- So you're blinded here. You can't see the truth because you're too pissed off.

You are just pissed you've lost money in something involving Jasinlee and are childishly lashing out at anything you can.

No.  I am not.  I never lashed out even though Jasin changed the ASIC website to promote XC/Cachecoin until you guys started posting about him.  I'm "lashing out" because I don't feel that it's right for someone to scam dozens out of thousands of dollars and get away with it moving on to the next coin/project.

- You have zero reason to lash out at XC when you think Jasinlee has done you wrong.
- If Jasinlee has moved onto a new project, it isn't XC, because he's not on the team, isn't getting paid, hasn't had access to the code, and hasn't written any of XC's code.


So please remove XC from the title of this thread.


Or please delete the entire thread.

[rdnkjdi]

Some factually incorrect statements:

Or D. Someone on the team made a mistake. It's a highly complex project with a large team of people.

No.  It's not.  There are three people.  Dan, Teka and Synchillies (& used to be Jasin).

- Not three people. 10 official ones, and several developers working for Dan.
[bunch of other stuff]

Lol - the only three I saw on XC.  Only other ones I pulled up listed on your website besides those three are pumping other coins. (Only looked at a few)

So please remove XC from the title of this thread.


Or please delete the entire thread.

I refuse to take down what I feel is highly relevant & informative that involves both XC & Jasinlee.   I've done several significant changes that make it less accusatory/more fair towards XC to try and make it as reflective to the facts as possible.

Thread stays - you are welcome to keep bumping it.  

You guys have deleted more than one of my posts in your moderated thread and told me to take my accusations somewhere else so I did.  I really have no idea why you keep posting here - I'm no longer posting in the XC chat thread.  I'd appreciate you giving me the same respect.

[synechist]

Some factually incorrect statements:

Or D. Someone on the team made a mistake. It's a highly complex project with a large team of people.

No.  It's not.  There are three people.  Dan, Teka and Synchillies (& used to be Jasin).

- Not three people. 10 official ones, and several developers working for Dan.
[bunch of other stuff]

I refuse to take down what I feel is highly relevant & informative that involves both XC & Jasinlee.  

I've done several significant changes that make it less accusatory towards XC and more reflective of the facts due to several requests / pointers.

Thread stays - you are welcome to keep bumping it.  

Sorry about free speech.  

Your case is against Jasinlee's ASIC project.

XC is not involved in Jasinlee's operations. Therefore any information about XC is irrelevant to your claims against Jasinlee's ASIC project.

Therefore you are attacking XC without warrant.

Attacking XC weakens your case: as it's not relevant to the ASIC project it makes you come across as a fudder.


So please either delete this thread or remove mention of XC from the OP and the title.

[rdnkjdi]

Synechist spamming my thread for the 19th time telling me what he thinks I should do.

I can repeat this as many times as you decide to continue spamming my thread with the same statements.  If it was self moderated I would ban you.

These are the facts in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months on official XC website.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?unsure about this.  

7 - On the 5th Teka (XC Official) said Jasinlee was a team member.  On the 9th - the official statement says he has not been a team member since being taken off the website months ago.

Draw your own conclusions/do your own research.

[synechist]

Synechist spamming my thread for the 19th time telling me what he thinks I should do.

- I'm requesting, not "telling". I'm not in authority over you.

7 - On the 5th Teka (XC Official) said Jasinlee was a team member.  On the 9th - the official statement says he has not been a team member since being taken off the website months ago.
[/b]

My guess is that on the 5th Teka was not aware that Jasin had stepped down, because he did so in conversation with Dan, and there is a whole lot going on in XC. It's impossible to be in every conversation, especially with the time-zone differences between Europe and the US.


You've been misquoting the official statement.

The statement does not say "months ago". It says "for some time".

By giving a more specific time-designation, you make your case appear stronger than it actually is.

Please do not bend the facts to suit your purposes.

[synechist]

These are the facts in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

...

How are any of those statements relevant to your case against his ASIC project?

They're not relevant at all.

Therefore please remove mention of XC from the OP and the thread's title.

[rdnkjdi]

Tired of responding to the spam.  Please investigate this thread, the OP and the ensuing conversations thru the entire thread - beginning to end to make your judgement call on if my accusations are accurate.

These are the facts in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months on official XC website.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?unsure about this.  

7 - On the 5th Teka (XC Official) said Jasinlee was a team member.  On the 9th - the official statement says he has not been a team member since being taken off the website months ago.

[synechist]

Tired of responding to the spam.

I am giving you facts about the inaccuracy of your statements.

I am also substantiating my view that XC has no relevance to your case against Fibonacci, and that mentioning XC makes you come across as a fudder.

If this was spam, it would have to be irrelevant to the thread's topic.

Yet it is highly relevant, since it pertains to the central claims made in the OP.

Therefore it is not spam.



Please remove mention of XC from the thread's title and from the OP.

[rdnkjdi]

Synechist acting like a broken record.

These are the facts in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months on official XC website.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?unsure about this.  

7 - On the 5th Teka (XC Official) said Jasinlee was a team member.  On the 9th - the official statement says he has not been a team member since being taken off the website months ago.

[synechist]

the official statement says he has not been a team member since being taken off the website months ago.

This is factually incorrect.

The official statement says "Jasinlee is not an official member of the XC Team, as has been reflected on our website for some time."

We do not say "months ago".

By your saying "months ago" you attempt to make your case feel stronger than it is.

This is deceitful.


Please change it.

[synechist]

These are the facts in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

None of these facts are relevant to your case against Jasinlee, so why include them?

What are your intentions here?


Your intention cannot be to strengthen your case against Jasinlee, because it doesn't.

Might it be to spread FUD about XC?


What do you say your intentions are in leaving XC-related content in this thread?

[rdnkjdi]

More identical semantic spam.  Taking guesses as to my "intentions" etc etc

Tired of responding to the spam.  Please investigate this thread, the OP and the ensuing conversations thru the entire thread - beginning to end to make your judgement call on if my accusations are accurate.

These are the facts in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months on official XC website.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?unsure about this.  

7 - On the 5th Teka (XC Official) said Jasinlee was a team member.  On the 9th - the official statement says he has not been a team member since being taken off the website months ago.

[robinwilliams]

How about this.  SHUT THE F*** UP BOTH OF YOU.   I HATE THIS THREAD MY EYES BLEED

rdnkajsdfai - we get it ur pissed.  nobody cares.

synchillis - u keep asking shit that doesn't matter in the context of the thread and repeating your same f****** questions.  Go away - he won't listen.  Nobody wants to see this at the top ANYMORE. 

If XC will let it die it will die.  Why do you guys keep bumping this horrid thread?

[synechist]

These are the facts in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC.

It's very arrogant of you to call those statements "facts". You are not omniscient and so cannot make that claim.

It's also arrogant of you to simply ignore my posts, which are directly relevant to the topic of this thread and are written in a respectful and non-emotional tone.

Please alter your statements to reflect the actual wording on XC's statement.

Please also remove any mention of XC from the OP and title because it's not relevant to your case against Jasinlee.

[synechist]

synchillis - u keep asking shit that doesn't matter in the context of the thread and repeating your same f****** questions.  Go away - he won't listen.  Nobody wants to see this at the top ANYMORE.  

What I'm asking is centrally relevant to this thread.

Since the thread is an attack on XC I will continue to address it.

It's not a matter of whether rdnkjdi listens or not, it's a matter of contending with FUD.


I'm sorry that this is frustrating. I think you'd be best off not reading this thread.



P.S. It's Synechist, not Synchillis. ;-)

[rdnkjdi]

Stuff about how synechist feels \ what he thinks I should do again.

Tired of responding to the spam.  Please investigate this thread, the OP and the ensuing conversations thru the entire thread - beginning to end to make your judgement call on if my accusations are accurate.  (If you even care )

These are the facts things that have happened/I can link/rdnkjdi's idea of "Facts" to to in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC that have been covered in this thread.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months on official XC website.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?unsure about this.  

7 - On the 5th Teka (XC Official) said Jasinlee was a team member.  On the 9th - the official statement says he has not been a team member since being taken off the website months ago.

[synechist]

Point number 7 there is factually incorrect.

[synechist]

Why are you attacking XC?

[rdnkjdi]

Stuff about my intentions, stuff already covered worded in a different way, etc etc.

Tired of responding to the spam.  Please investigate this thread, the OP and the ensuing conversations thru the entire thread - beginning to end to make your judgement call on if my accusations are accurate.  (If you even care )

These are the facts things that have happened/I can link/rdnkjdi's idea of "Facts" to to in regards to Jasinlee's attachment to XC that have been covered in this thread.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months on official XC website.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?unsure about this.  

7 - On the 5th Teka (XC Official) said Jasinlee was a team member.  On the 9th - the official statement says he has not been a team member since being taken off the website months ago.

[BTCgraphics]

Shady business. You'd think you would know a scammer is on your team.

[hoertest]

you ALL go on my f*ing nerves.

Synechist it took me two messages and some showing of understanding to get him change the title from developer to team member. Can't you cut that oxford language shit for 5 minutes and sound like a real person and put yourself into the guys mind a bit. title would be gone already.
 
Same applies to you rdnkjdi, cause factually Synechist simply has the point. even i can't understand your stance by now.
your title is a lie and as such unacceptable for somebody setting such high moral standards to everybody and their mama who talked to jasin once in their lifetime.

in a bar we would send you guys outside now end get two beers ready for the talk out after the brawl.

Anyway fuck this shit i'm taking another week of forum break. seems bout time again.

One more thing.

XCurrency is the most exciting and ambitious project in crypto, check us out if you seek a good investment . this thread is not at all representative. Our PR guy is actually a super cool dude.

good night bitches

[rdnkjdi]

in a bar we would send you guys outside now end get two beers ready for the talk out after the brawl.

+1.  

I've left the XC chat thread on request and the ONLY person who I've requested not post here is the stuck up prick of a marketing guy you guys have.  He refuses to give me the same deference I've given.

He continues to spam this (my) thread.

Teka did post on the 5th.  Others in the forum confirmed Jasins continued involvement.  Luckily this is easy information to check - people can google pdf's and the quote from Teka and the official release saying he has been taken off since the website update.  

I've TRIED to keep my OP as factual as possible and am truly willing to let this thread die.  But if the asshat of a PR guy wants to keep spamming - then I'll spam back since it's unmoderated and I've asked him (and only him) to leave.

[slapper]

XCurrency faggotry

You pricks don't ever learn do you. A lot of the forum posters are laying off but now that you fags have started one last pimp before you lay off, it is getting hard to resist.

I will wait for one more of this PR fucking bullshit that this guy syphellis is pulling for the last couple of months and then it will be more bumpage of this topic along with other crap about XC that "investors" need to know. You mindless fucking twats will never get it, but you are begging for it.

[synechist]

you ALL go on my f*ing nerves.

Synechist it took me two messages and some showing of understanding to get him change the title from developer to team member. Can't you cut that oxford language shit for 5 minutes and sound like a real person and put yourself into the guys mind a bit. title would be gone already.
 
Same applies to you rdnkjdi, cause factually Synechist simply has the point. even i can't understand your stance by now.
your title is a lie and as such unacceptable for somebody setting such high moral standards to everybody and their mama who talked to jasin once in their lifetime.

in a bar we would send you guys outside now end get two beers ready for the talk out after the brawl.

Anyway fuck this shit i'm taking another week of forum break. seems bout time again.

One more thing.

XCurrency is the most exciting and ambitious project in crypto, check us out if you seek a good investment . this thread is not at all representative. Our PR guy is actually a super cool dude.

good night bitches

My apologies hoertest.

rdnkjdi, if I've come across as cold or "not like a real person" then that is not my intention. My intention is simply to appeal to reason, since in your previous posts you were strongly disposed against me, and I saw little point in trying to alter this.

slapper, I'm aware that my decision to persist here is not the only option, and it comes with a cost. But my opinion is that in this case it's the better option overall.

[rdnkjdi]

rdnkjdi, if I've come across as cold or "not like a real person" then that is not my intention. My intention is simply to appeal to reason, since in your previous posts you were strongly disposed against me, and I saw little point in trying to alter this.

You are correct.  This is my opinion (which is NOT the point of this thread - but I'll throw it out there FWIW). 
I will give you some free advice.  Rather than addressing issues in this manner.

1 - Did rdnkjdi provide proof jasinlee was a scammer?

2 - Did our officials / posters directly link Jasinlee to us / is he still working with us as a developer / team member?

3 - Address Jasinlee's linkage to XC.

You addressed them in this manner.

1 - Obfuscation (or beclouding) my accusations by questioning my motives, discussing what is moral when accusing someone, stating in one sentence lines of "he has no proof" (rather than actually looking at the raw material I provided or addressing it), etc.

* To answer the question of motives that KEEPS coming up.  Losing thousands of $'s when someone lies & scams me is more than enough of a motivation for me to warn other projects they are heavily involved in.  This was not a "fud" attempt like you kept trying to brush it off as.

2 - Defense of Jasinlee.

3 - Release of a public statement on how Jasinlee has not been involved in the project since he was taken off the website a long time ago (even though other team members & XC chat thread posts argue this) giving everyone one hour to ask questions about the release (Maybe it would have come up that you had conflicting official statements on the 5th and on the 9th as to when Jasinlee ceased to be involved in your project)

4 - Continued spamming of this thread with no relevant information.  And then the last post that was not simply repeating something as an attempt to grab the last page.

[rdnkjdi]

I will post my summary of the LINKAGE of XC to Jasinlee one more time.  The stuff about the Jasinlee project itself is in the hugely long OP.  People can decide for themselves.

1 - Jasinlee was listed as a developer for months on official XC website.

2 - Jasinlee was taken OFF the XC website that listed him as an XC developer

3 - Jasinlee took the ASIC website and used it to promote XC (I let this go and figured it was a 1 sided relationship)

4 - XC people started bringing up Jasinlee asking about the status of his development projects for XC.  I asked about it in the XC thread, brought up my accusations.  Jasinlee was defended - I was told to go away.  I started this thread.

5 - I was told Jasinlee was a team member, is still a team member, is no longer a team member, I shouldn't care because there is a different lead developer.  Jasinlee was defended.

6 - I was told Jasinlee was never a developer for XC ever.  He was just listed as a developer because he is a developer in real life and paid their Bitcoin to the Beltway.  I believe this was probably paid out of our pre-order money (which he can no longer afford to refund) Or perhaps the money made pumping Cachecoin.   He "ran out of money" for his ASIC project while providing money (if I understand correctly) for XC to attend BTC on the Beltway?unsure about this.

7 - On the 5th Teka (XC Official) said Jasinlee was a team member.  On the 9th - the official statement says he has not been a team member since being taken off the website months ago.

I sincerely apologize for the length of this thread to all of the altcoin members

[rdnkjdi]

Eh what the hell.  XC  seems to be on the front page.  I'll unlock and bump this.

[UnicornFarts]

Eh what the hell.  XC  seems to be on the front page.  I'll unlock and bump this.

lol much butthurt there buddy?  maybe you should let it go ... better for your health that way

[TheMage]

Eh what the hell.  XC  seems to be on the front page.  I'll unlock and bump this.

lol much butthurt there buddy?  maybe you should let it go ... better for your health that way

Does this help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU


 

[rdnkjdi]

Eh what the hell.  XC  seems to be on the front page.  I'll unlock and bump this.

lol much butthurt there buddy?  maybe you should let it go ... better for your health that way

Does this help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU


 

hahahaha - I see you've upgraded from mere mortal picture memes

 like balm on da butthurt

[TheMage]

Eh what the hell.  XC  seems to be on the front page.  I'll unlock and bump this.

lol much butthurt there buddy?  maybe you should let it go ... better for your health that way

Does this help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU


 

hahahaha - I see you've upgraded from mere mortal picture memes

 like balm on da butthurt

[BTCscammerQuote]

The markets speak.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/cachecoin/#markets
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/xcurrency/#markets

[rdnkjdi]

http://www.coindesk.com/florida-group-faces-fraud-charges-alleged-altcoin-pump-dump/

How's that official response that XC has "Full confidence that Jasinlee will make right to his investors" four months ago working out for ya Arlyn?

[rachimo34]

BOOOM the fraud charge is now public everywhere

http://www.coindesk.com/florida-group-faces-fraud-charges-alleged-altcoin-pump-dump/

FRAUD,UNJUST ENRICHMENT,VIOLATION OF FLORIDA SECURITY AND INVESTOR PROTECTION ACT,FALSE AND MISLEADING ADVERTISEMENT,CIVIL THEFT, NEGLIGENCE......

Hope these guys will end up in prison, hope people will be  carefull when it comes to investment in this field.

Network effect: as a business you don't want to be associated with non honest people.

XC people can hire a PR now  

https://i.imgur.com/byyZ6cO.png

[TheMage]

http://www.coindesk.com/florida-group-faces-fraud-charges-alleged-altcoin-pump-dump/

How's that official response that XC has "Full confidence that Jasinlee will make right to his investors" four months ago working out for ya Arlyn?

lol@will smith 

[Altcoin Agent]

Scam allegations belong in the scam allegations sub forum.

[gristlelump]

Scam allegations belong in the scam allegations sub forum.

Lawsuit on the table.... allegations will be dealt with legally now.   http://www.coindesk.com/florida-group-faces-fraud-charges-alleged-altcoin-pump-dump/