Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[jimmothy]

Black Arrow isn't going to break down and go buy machines from other suppliers in order to keep their customers happy. (although it would be nice)

BA doesn't have to buy machines from others, they can get AM chips like they did with the bitfuries. The AM chips are going to be two months earlier and will kill BA's chips on current performance specs.  

0.35 versus 0.75 w/ghs TT
0.2 versus 0.5(?) w/ghs SS

I'm keen to salvage something out of this.  The BA back end team has failed.  That should be acknowledged. Let's move forward.

How will they be 2 months earlier when BA and AM are both going to tapeout around feb 15?

Do you even have an order with BA or are you just here to create fud?

Given the situation is mostly unknown with regards to where customers actually stand, the real issue is not other people allegedly creating fud - fear, uncertainty, doubt - it's why are you so determined to engender the opposite? - hope, certainty, belief - when you yourself are just as much up shit creek without a paddle as every other customer.

It's time you took you took the paddle out of your arse and stopped accusing any non-fanboi commentators of spreading fud when the vast majority of posters are customers seeking further information and getting no suitable answers.

What alternate reality are you living in? I don't see "mountains of prosperos selling on ebay" and the "majority of customers posting" are actually only about 3 fudsters who don't know how preorders work.

Seriously don't you have anything better to do? Like riding dinosaurs in your alternate reality?

[Lloydie]

Black Arrow isn't going to break down and go buy machines from other suppliers in order to keep their customers happy. (although it would be nice)

BA doesn't have to buy machines from others, they can get AM chips like they did with the bitfuries. The AM chips are going to be two months earlier and will kill BA's chips on current performance specs.  

0.35 versus 0.75 w/ghs TT
0.2 versus 0.5(?) w/ghs SS

I'm keen to salvage something out of this.  The BA back end team has failed.  That should be acknowledged. Let's move forward.

How will they be 2 months earlier when BA and AM are both going to tapeout around feb 15?

Do you even have an order with BA or are you just here to create fud?

Yes, I have order with BA via DZ coop.  AM will be earlier due to use of 40nm versus 28nm, per the forecasts of both companies. I'm not intending to spread FUD.  I'm intending to outline the facts and how it might be possible to salvage something back. If I could get 75% of my money back, I would be happy with that. I would then buy BTCs with it.

[Bluebark]

Anyone else read the latest KNC newsletter?  Looks like KNC is either one step ahead in the industry or they have their crosshairs on BA.  I don't think this is a coincidence.  I will point out the letter states nothing about what % of pre-ordered hashrate will be comped, but I would bet it's more than 25% AND it will be available at stated pre-order ship date.  The bad news: KNC will have some portion of their pre-order Neptune hash up and going on schedule.  The good news: This puts direct competitor pressure on BA to deliver the absolute best comp within their means or risk having next to nothing to offer above the competition in the future.

"Plan B

As you are all aware we broke many world records in releasing the 28nm chip in such a short amount of time. We are a very ambitious company but even for us, to go “all in” and not be able to deliver on our performance targets, like our competition, would be completely unacceptable to us as a company and everything we stand for. So today we are introducing, Plan B.
 
 To make sure that everyone who has paid for their Neptune we are building a data centre like no other. It is located in the north of Sweden not far from Facebook and other Mega Data Centres and it’s totally powered by renewable energy.
 
 Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.
 
 In the addition to this commitment, as part of Plan B, for all Neptune customers, we will be offering a free conversion to a hosted hashing package where we will simply fill your wallets directly and you won’t have to worry about anything else. All the other costs taken care of by us. We are able to do this by using our 28nm chips which is why all products that we have coming out of our factory in the next few months will go into building and supplying the Plan B facility.
 
 If, during the course of development of Neptune, there is any threat to the timelines for delivery, those delays will not result in the loss of any mining time for our Neptune customers. We will release more details of this as we get closer to the delivery date, but for now we have one of the world’s largest data centres to build.

 Thanks
 KnCMiner Team"

Thoughts?

    This is excellent news and very good for all BA stakeholders. The competition has raised the bar and set a "new" standard for just compensation. I may not know all the ins and outs of the bitcoin industry but I do know business. It's a cut throat world out there and surviving means do better and cheaper than your competition. If not...you can kiss your ass goodbye because you will slowly erode away into nothing...leaving only a bad taste in people's mouths and minds. It will be interesting to see how BA and Miner Source respond to KNC's shot across their bow. I believe in BA, I just think they went about it in a bad way. They should have announced it as an investment opportunity...your $ now for a piece of the action down the road. Put out your projection on what you expect to produce and just keep the investors in the loop.

    Anybody with half a brain could could figure out that this was a client funded R&D project. And I am sure that everything was going well.  until their bench test of their pre-fab run...they didn't hit the mark. Back to the drawing board...BA fault was choosing not to inform their investors (because until they have product, that's what they are) of a possible delay. I say delay, because BA could have chosen to run the FAB and make up for it in the ass end. Investors would have product and compensation for not hitting their stated goal...win/win. OR they could have made a statement after the testing and said the FAB failed to meet it's design specs. "After careful consideration, we at Black Arrow have decided to redesign the chip to meet or exceed original specs" and then follow with w project brief. Sadly they chose not to do either and will be playing catch-up for the next two months...under extreme pressure to perform....would NOT want to be in their shoes right now.

Now there has been something stuck in the back of my head. BA, like everyone else, is going to make millions during burn in...maybe. I say maybe because I don't know if they are like the computer industry and burn their equipment in before release. If they do...their lies all the capital they will need to fund just compensation.

This whole pre-order thing is quite ingenious. Wish I had thought of it. Obtain VC without have to give up a stake in your company. This if fact boarders on Super Genius.

and yes, I am a pre-order holder.

[Airwhale]

Here are some questions I have, Matt:

Why May 1st?  Could you provide a more detailed timeline of what Black arrow expects to have done by when?

25% hosted bitcoins is far under what other companies have decided to give their customers when they were late.  How does Black arrow think this compares to,  say,  bitmine's offer of an extra 10% extra hardware per 10 days late?

Has tapeout actually happened?  That is,  has all of the development work been done and sent off to the chipmaker?

When has Black arrow contracted Global foundries to make the chip?  They have had delays for other users of their services,  how are you sure that black arrow will not be affected?

What is the refund procedure/policy?

[jimmothy]

I understand you're too lazy to read what I wrote above about ebay having more than just their American site. I also appreciate that you're probably trying to forget that you're likely to have been 75% scammed but it's pretty weak denying that most commentators here are customers seeking information/clarification/refunds or even just some official comment on BA's insufficient email to customers.

It should also be clear that I prefer Whack-A-Mole to riding dinosaurs. What is unclear is how that paddle that has remained up your arse and has somehow obscured your vision at the same time, but if you stopped pretending that fairies, unicorns and rainbows will restore lost customer funds and hashing time, you might be just see that the two other people you quoted above were customers who... wait for it... were seeking further information.

Stop huffin' the glue, it's doing you no favours at all.

Its not that I was too lazy to read what you said, its just that what you said was bullshit.

Fun fact: ebay shows all completed listings in advanced search

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=black+arrow+prospero&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1

And as anyone can see only 2 sales have been made worldwide for prosperos. One sale for 750 usd which is double the current rate.

What are you so mad about really? Nobody with an actual order with BA is even a fraction as butthurt about the delays as you and PG.

[bobsag3]

So.. Blackarrow and bobsag3 are related (brothers/cousins)? Guess it makes sense since he was the first reseller

LOL
LOL
LOL

Not even bloody close.
Now im going to go back to bed, its 351AM here in the UK, im jet lagged, and have another meeting tomorrow with all of them, including the reseller for the Netherlands and the UK reseller (flappy stocks).

[bobsag3]

So.. Blackarrow and bobsag3 are related (brothers/cousins)? Guess it makes sense since he was the first reseller

LOL
LOL
LOL

Not even bloody close.
Now im going to go back to bed, its 351AM here in the UK, im jet lagged, and have another meeting tomorrow with all of them, including the reseller for the Netherlands and the UK reseller (flappy stocks).

So it's just a coincidence that y'all have the same last name? >_>

In Denver CO, where I live, there are at last 4 other familys with the last name Carson. Theres thousands of people with my last name.

[bobsag3]

So.. Blackarrow and bobsag3 are related (brothers/cousins)? Guess it makes sense since he was the first reseller

LOL
LOL
LOL

Not even bloody close.
Now im going to go back to bed, its 351AM here in the UK, im jet lagged, and have another meeting tomorrow with all of them, including the reseller for the Netherlands and the UK reseller (flappy stocks).

So it's just a coincidence that y'all have the same last name? >_>

In Denver CO, where I live, there are at last 4 other familys with the last name Carson. Theres thousands of people with my last name.

Yeah, but the chances of business partners of having the same last name and not being related is kinda slim. Granted that Carson is not a unique last name, but okay.. whatever you say. Looking forward to whatever update you can provide tomorrow.

Where...anywhere does it have someone sharing my last name be apart of BA? I know pretty much every single person involved, and none of them have my last name, let alone related to me. I am an only child, and both of my parents are retired, so.... please stop waisting time with just fud, so we can keep the thread clear for questions and concerns, so that when I bring more info back, when I post it it wont be buried under 1000 tons of useless info.

[bobsag3]

So you're saying that the person who operates the blackarrow account does not have the name "Willie Carson"?

I was sitting next to him yesterday, definitely not a "willie" or a "Carson". There HQ is not in the Uk either, its in shenzen. the UK office is intended for customer service, and software development.

[BlackArrow Matt]

So you're saying that the person who operates the blackarrow account does not have the name "Willie Carson"?

Correct.

[Lloydie]

So you're saying that the person who operates the blackarrow account does not have the name "Willie Carson"?

I was sitting next to him yesterday, definitely not a "willie" or a "Carson". There HQ is not in the Uk either, its in shenzen. the UK office is intended for customer service, and software development.

Where in Shenzhen so we can verify and name please in case this goes downhill.  Transparency is paramount at this stage.

[BlackArrow Matt]

For what it's worth, I reached out to Phinneaus regarding the two people he was helping who had an order for $147k and $20k. He won't tell me their names on here, which is fine. He said he has no support ticket numbers to reference and he said he'd forward my PM to them so they can respond to me. It's only been about 24 hours now so it's still possible they can contact me but so far nobody has.

I want to help these people but I have received zero information and our trouble ticket system is pretty much up to date. I've not seen any tickets that are close to the situation that Phinneaus's friends are in.

[bobsag3]

So this post is all lies?:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197.msg4943991#msg4943991
Even though he has links to back it up.

I see one link, quoted (without the original link so wee what else was said) saying something that has a "Willie Carson". I fail to see how that ha anything to do with the person I have met in real life.

[Unacceptable]

So.. Blackarrow and bobsag3 are related (brothers/cousins)? Guess it makes sense since he was the first reseller

LOL
LOL
LOL

Not even bloody close.
Now im going to go back to bed, its 351AM here in the UK, im jet lagged, and have another meeting tomorrow with all of them, including the reseller for the Netherlands and the UK reseller (flappy stocks).

So it's just a coincidence that y'all have the same last name? >_>

In Denver CO, where I live, there are at last 4 other familys with the last name Carson. Theres thousands of people with my last name.

Oh shit......my middle name is Carson.........guess I'm part of the "crew" 

[BlackArrow Matt]

The site that PG linked just went down right now for whatever reason, but here's a google cache:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TpxePg-hmE8J:www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php%3F331715-8000GBP-retained-by-Bank-of-Scotland+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk
Post #7 is where the name is mentioned.
blackarrow = yew = Willie Carson according to PG's research.

Wait... That's the name of the person who was replying to yew/blackarrow, not the identity of yew/blackarrow himself..
LOL. Carry on. Nothing left to see here.

I do wonder why blackarrow tried to delete that post he made on this forum referencing that site though..

Because it has nothing to do with this thread and is distracting.

[BlackArrow Matt]

Back on topic: can you share with us what y'all have discussed so far? bobsag3 has been in the UK for a whole day now. What progress has been made?

I'll let him answer that. I'm not in the UK so I'm not part of those discussions. I've also not been briefed at this point.

[bobsag3]

Back on topic: can you share with us what y'all have discussed so far? bobsag3 has been in the UK for a whole day now. What progress has been made?

First day was just talks with me , tomorrow everyone else joins us and we make decisions.
Im also Jet lagged as all hell, it 451am here and I cant sleep.

[terrapinflyer]

My local time says Im in MT time... Im in Cali
(edit I did the math backwards  )

[bobsag3]

Back on topic: can you share with us what y'all have discussed so far? bobsag3 has been in the UK for a whole day now. What progress has been made?

First day was just talks with me , tomorrow everyone else joins us and we make decisions.
Im also Jet lagged as all hell, it 451am here and I cant sleep.

Not that I don't believe you, but if you live in Denver, why does your local time indicate that you're on the east coast?
Same thing goes for blackarrow - his local time indicated that he's in Europe, not China.
The more transparency we get, the better people feel.

Becuase neither I nor black arrow cares about our forum profile time?
Im going to bed, again, I will be back on in 24-48hrs with more.

[jimmothy]

Okay then. Please consider KNC and Cointerra's compensations versus your own and find a better solution.
Thanks.

Consider the amount of hashrate after compensation those companies are giving vs BA.

Cointerra: $14k usd for 2th + 2th(for compensation)
BA: 5k usd for 2th + 0.5th (for comp)