Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[DebitMe]

The X1 & X3 are going to be fantastic.  And that's just the beginning.

Which miner would you buy?

A) $5/gh delivered next week
B) $3/gh delivered in three months

Wow, this thread is moving fast (and about 1% of posts are actually relevant)
Anyway, Syke, I would love to know where you can buy $5/gh? AntMiners seem to be more like $24/gh which is pure garbage considering I can get $14/gh (@ $600/Bitcoin currently) at cex.io instantly hosted for me...
Is there some miner I don't know about or some secret store, or are people just pulling numbers out of their ass (as usual)? 

Where on earth are you getting that an Ant is $24 a GH/s?
It currently costs 1.45 Btc which at $650 per bitcoin is about $1000,
so 1000/180 = $5.55 GH/s

Speaking of off topic and completely FUD posts...

[goozman96]

Bobsag, please confirm that the extra 2 months and 10% discount is also available for people who bought from MinerSource, thanks

Yup.
I just got up (finally over being sick pretty much) and this will be going out in an email blast.

Also if you need help/info for emailing Verisilicon, feel free to drop me a PM, I can get you info you probably need (All I did was send them an email stating who I was, and asking for confirmation of the existence of the contract between VS and BA).

I'm still waiting for your reply to my previous PM. Please also include this info in your reply.
Thanks

[Pentax]

Got this too.  Meh.  Was hoping for a lot more meat.

As expected they've settled on the option that costs them as little as possible.  Gee, they upped their originally ridiculously lousy offer to just a lousy offer.  Diverting some amount from their future cloud mining, while still selling cloud mining, ie, pumping nothing back whatsoever into this mess, but rather simply diverting some amount of earnings this year, and likely writing that off, thereby guarding every nickel made on this debacle to this point.  Nicely done, if you're on that side of the fence, but not so much if you're on the receiving end. 

What is that 500 Gh/month per X-3 going to earn in 6 months time, starting in May, relative to losing 2Th/s for 2 months, or whatever the delay actually ends up being, that should be starting in less than two weeks' time?  This is the only thing that actually matters.  I haven't done the math on the loss vs. this additional hashing and ultimate projected net, but I'm betting the answer is still not even close. 

10% discount on future orders?  We're being offered savings in the future on an order than will turn a profit for BA.  You've got to hand it to them for the sheer balls on this aspect.  More profit for them as recompense for costing you money.  This is a booby prize, at best. 

Who will make the same mistake twice, knowing full well that if BA screws up again, they'll lose money again, and be thrown a bone that doesn't come close to adding up to losses incurred, while other manufacturers are making up for those losses in ways that actually matter and make mathematical sense.  You'd have to be down to 2 working brain cells, neither of which was doing anything important, to place your money and trust in these people again.

[goozman96]

Bobsag, please confirm that the extra 2 months and 10% discount is also available for people who bought from MinerSource, thanks

Yup.
I just got up (finally over being sick pretty much) and this will be going out in an email blast.

Also if you need help/info for emailing Verisilicon, feel free to drop me a PM, I can get you info you probably need (All I did was send them an email stating who I was, and asking for confirmation of the existence of the contract between VS and BA).

I'm still waiting for your reply to my previous PM. Please also include this info in your reply.
Thanks

I'm still waiting for this.

In addition, it seems as though the 72 hour period for old orders being transferred to the new minersource site has come and gone, and I still haven't received an email for my account on the new site.

[goozman96]

Bobsag, please confirm that the extra 2 months and 10% discount is also available for people who bought from MinerSource, thanks

Yup.
I just got up (finally over being sick pretty much) and this will be going out in an email blast.

Also if you need help/info for emailing Verisilicon, feel free to drop me a PM, I can get you info you probably need (All I did was send them an email stating who I was, and asking for confirmation of the existence of the contract between VS and BA).

I'm still waiting for your reply to my previous PM. Please also include this info in your reply.
Thanks

I'm still waiting for this.

In addition, it seems as though the 72 hour period for old orders being transferred to the new minersource site has come and gone, and I still haven't received an email for my account on the new site.

Bobsag3 was online just recently and I still haven't received any communication on this.

[OleOle]

Shenzhen, 26 September, 2013: Black Arrow is proud to announce that it has upgraded the specifications of its Minion chip to 100 Ghash (up to 128 Ghash when overclocked).

If these even exist, you should be able to link one video or one youtube link. There should be even one review.

If they even exist. Show them hashing. Do it.


Prove they even exist. I somehow bet you can not. There are absolutely NO EXCUSES. NONE.

To be fair, at no point is BA claiming anything that you're asking for. Although you do have a point in a sense that the idea of being "proud" of "upgrading the specifications" of a fab that doesn't even exist yet is totally crazytown, unless perhaps something about how this kind of sentence reads is lost in translation to English.

"...the idea of being "proud" of "upgrading the specifications" of a fab that doesn't even exist yet is totally crazytown..."
 
+1



 

[Pentax]

what I'd like to know is what BA's profit on this is to date.  what was taken in, what was the margin.  of course they'll never release that, although that is what tells the story of how much room there is to work in terms of compensation for these delays.

This was a product rolled out as an early mover, in a marketplace with little competition at a time of high demand, substantive cost savings due to the funding mechanism and production locations.  

Now, we're supposed to buy into the apparent story that the best they can do is foregoing some profit from cloud mining in the future, which in cost terms is the equivalent of the power to run those things they are building on our dime, and which still does not even equal the hash time lost due to their delay, much less account for the rise in difficulty?

bullsheezy.  this is nakedly designed only to guard their pile of money.  

they were given a chance to rectify their own mistake and instead chose to pass their failure on to the people that make their business possible.  I will hope people remember this and let others know not to trust these people with their money.

[goozman96]

I have received confirmation from Verisilicon directly that they are indeed working on a chip for Blackarrow and are a few days away from tape out. I can post a screenshot later.

[goozman96]

Also, it seems that everyone has to pay electricity costs for the last 2 months of the (not so) free hosting.

How they plan on enforcing this, idk..

[Pentax]

Also, it seems that everyone has to pay electricity costs for the last 2 months of the (not so) free hosting.

How they plan on enforcing this, idk..

Where is that info?   I did not notice that.

[Pentax]

It seems like this is just an engineering setback which was a risk that we took with pre-orders.  If it was a straight up scam, then these people would be gone now with our money.  The only "scam" I could see right now would be minersource keeping the hardware for themselves when it comes in and I don't think that is going to happen (besides PG will be all over them! LOL).  

I am frustrated with minersource's lack of communication though.  I emailed about my 3 x-1's in their old order database (batch 1) about a week ago and still no response.

I can see how people can see it that way, however, there's not much difference between an outright scam and pocketing profit while your customers lose thousands due to your screwups. 

Just because we get a box with something in it doesn't mean it's not a screw job, far as I'm concerned.

[Pentax]

Also, it seems that everyone has to pay electricity costs for the last 2 months of the (not so) free hosting.

How they plan on enforcing this, idk..

I just clarified this- I was incorrect. The entire 6 months will be covered for all customers. I will be updating all my info shortly.

cool.  and thanks for gathering this up for the rest of us.

[goozman96]

Sorry, I left something unredacted in the last post. Here it is again:

(20nm hypothesis was wrong, so what's the "surprise"? hmmm)

[goozman96]

Goozman, what is employee from verisilicon gave you that confirmation.

Look here
http://dazzlepod.com/csdn/?page=4893
Somebody with email robert.kuang@verisilicon.com among many other email addresses has leaked compromised passwords.

I give up..

[goozman96]

408 844 8560

http://www.verisilicon.com/worldwideoffice.html

Odd! I just got off the phone and the lady doesn't know a Rober Kuang or of any Black Arrow.

Call them yourselves.

Can you try calling the China offices?

[goozman96]

Well in his reply, he did CC someone else:
Zheng.Xu@verisilicon.com

[goozman96]

http://dazzlepod.com/csdn/?email=verisilicon
Zheng.Xu isn't on that list, so hopefully he can confirm..

[goozman96]

http://dazzlepod.com/csdn/?email=verisilicon
Zheng.Xu isn't on that list, so hopefully he can confirm..

I was under the assumption that Zheng is you, hence to Zheng, me.

And why all the effort to block out Kuang, but leave one?

No, it's not me. I blocked it out cuz I wanted to respect his privacy, but leave enough visible for authenticity. But since his email was compromised and published.... oh well.

[goozman96]

http://dazzlepod.com/csdn/?email=verisilicon
Zheng.Xu isn't on that list, so hopefully he can confirm..

I was under the assumption that Zheng is you, hence to Zheng, me.

And why all the effort to block out Kuang, but leave one?

No, it's not me. I blocked it out cuz I wanted to respect his privacy, but leave enough visible for authenticity. But since his email was compromised and published.... oh well.

Cc mean carbon copy not forward.

I know. It means that the reply he sent to me was also sent to another employee (probably as a safety measure)

[Pentax]

Robert kuang seem to be asic design maneger at verisilicon. That pass breach was long ago 2011 but still this nda bugs me.
Can somebody best pg email him?

 
I hear ya, but NDA's are commonplace.  In my business,  it's very common.  Nobody is given information or allowed onto the manufacturing floor that hasn't signed one.  Period.

it's common business practice.

what the scope is I don't know, as we haven't seen it obviously, but I don't doubt it exists.  I'd be more surprised if it didn't.