Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Pentax]

As a lucky rent-a-minion customer, I also received this today (I did mess with the spacing):

Dear Customer,

We  received an update from the Hosting Team:


Please be advised that currently we are finishing the last
          preparations in our data center, such as setting up power
          lines and testing the hashing hardware.

          Once this are complete we will be able to launch this
          services.

Please take note that will not have 100% coverage of orders for
          hashing; Crrently have around 100 TH/S but we will keep adding
          devices to cover all of the orders, which is around 300 TH/S.

Of course we will starting with the queue on Early orders
          1st. Further announcements will be made soon.

If you were not yet able to share your BTC payment address,
          and/or should you have questions, kindly do so using
          our ticketing system and contact our support.

Sincerely,

Black Arrow Team

Well gee, wasn't that done in May?  That's what they said, I seem to remember.

[greenlion]

As a lucky rent-a-minion customer, I also received this today (I did mess with the spacing):

Dear Customer,

We  received an update from the Hosting Team:


Please be advised that currently we are finishing the last
          preparations in our data center, such as setting up power
          lines and testing the hashing hardware.

          Once this are complete we will be able to launch this
          services.

Please take note that will not have 100% coverage of orders for
          hashing; Crrently have around 100 TH/S but we will keep adding
          devices to cover all of the orders, which is around 300 TH/S.

Of course we will starting with the queue on Early orders
          1st. Further announcements will be made soon.

If you were not yet able to share your BTC payment address,
          and/or should you have questions, kindly do so using
          our ticketing system and contact our support.

Sincerely,

Black Arrow Team

Well gee, wasn't that done in May?  That's what they said, I seem to remember.

This is total crap, the Rent-a-Minion service was sold under the specification that the user could connect it to public pools of their chosing, which included a Black Arrow pool (and even alt SHA256 coin pools). Simply sending them a payment address is not the service that customers paid for.

[Pentax]

As a lucky rent-a-minion customer, I also received this today (I did mess with the spacing):

Dear Customer,

We  received an update from the Hosting Team:


Please be advised that currently we are finishing the last
          preparations in our data center, such as setting up power
          lines and testing the hashing hardware.

          Once this are complete we will be able to launch this
          services.

Please take note that will not have 100% coverage of orders for
          hashing; Crrently have around 100 TH/S but we will keep adding
          devices to cover all of the orders, which is around 300 TH/S.

Of course we will starting with the queue on Early orders
          1st. Further announcements will be made soon.

If you were not yet able to share your BTC payment address,
          and/or should you have questions, kindly do so using
          our ticketing system and contact our support.

Sincerely,

Black Arrow Team

Well gee, wasn't that done in May?  That's what they said, I seem to remember.

This is total crap, the Rent-a-Minion service was sold under the specification that the user could connect it to public pools of their chosing, which included a Black Arrow pool (and even alt SHA256 coin pools). Simply sending them a payment address is not the service that customers paid for.

nope.  it does, however, allow them to pay BTC as if they were mining.  it's not as if anyone is ever going to ROI on those payments, so trickle it on out.  allowing users to independently control their miners, as sold, would circumvent that option, most likely.  Plug yourself into eligius and now you know you have hashing what you paid for.  them saying so proves nothing.

maybe they've got a data center and maybe they don't.  who knows.  they've told so many versions of every aspect of this debacle that I'd be surprised if even they could keep track of it all.

[notbatman]

They're selling used 1Th/s Bitfury miners that they obviously got with our pre-order money. Their data centre got upgraded to Minions in May that's why they've got a pile of used ones.

Rent-a-Minion customers in all likelihood won't even be hashing on their farm and will get some fraction of the money they paid sent back as BTC based on calculations not actual mining.   

These thieves and liars have robbed us of money out of our pockets, of hardware capital, of a considerable amount of revenue and of a lot of time.

[breakingcode]

I had thought about taking a trip up there myself, but even so, it just might be a registered address and not actually a residential address.

And please, im not getting defensive, i'm just laying out what i see as i see it.

But as i said before, i would gladly take the opportunity to prove to someone who's a bit more local to me, hell, I'll even bring passport, utility bills and receipts from my local Morrison if you like plus i have a south London accent, not a east European one.. but as i said, im doing this to recover from BA, at my expense so far so anyone who comes along for the ride, you bolster my case and you get yours added to it.
If you think i'm a BA shill.. then don't join in. I'll still be using my lawyers to try and force a recovery on BA.

If its correct and they don't have any money in the bank and i get a court order to recover the funds... what will happen?

I'm my experience, if you can't pay your goods are confiscated and sold off to meet your debt. What is that going to mean for all the miners in stock, all the boards all the cases all the chips all the PSU and everything in their building ? They are confiscated to pay their debt. Now maybe China has a different way of handling this sort of thing, and from a totally mercenary point of view, i shouldn't be concerned with others, i should only be concerned with my money they owe me. However, as it serves me, it should serve everyone, but recovery of debts owed to large numbers of people can only be discharged to those named on the legal action.. in the UK anyway... how it works in china.. i don't know... but it's soon to be found out what the process is exactly.

On the other hand, i could have just kept quiet and proceeded with the case to get my money back and not say anything to anyone and all anyone else would know would be that BA would roll up and die and EVERYONE looses , hell you might not even get notification that they've gone down... they don't answer the telephones anyway.

So from my point of view, im trying to be accommodating, im trying to do something for our community... i can lead the horse, but can't force it to drink i think works here.

If you actually file a legit class action here's the "order of things"
A. Law firm evaluates the case and says "Yes, or No" They don't need to know how many e-mails of people you have, they base it on expectation to win, vs amount in suit.
B. If they accept the case or say they want to pursue it further, they give you contact info and/or create a release which can be distributed that shows the company, the name of the case and a brief summary. (If it's "your buddy doing it" he would be able to provide this info for re-posting without hesitation of any type.)
C. They tell you to give their contact number out for all communications involved between you and someone potentially in the suit. (Ie they would have said "Cease sending mails to BA immediately and direct all their replies to our address.") Most likely they would post in this forum directly, not have you try to represent them to the community. 
D. They interview the respondents, usually an e-mail form or online questionnaire, but it would be 100% verifiable and connected to a legal organization with a phone number and a contact name. 100% of the time.

If you can't provide verification in a public forum, you don't actually have anyone pursuing legal action, this is a lie you're probably using this as a scare tactic to try to get yourself some comp from BA or to circle-jerk people who do want some kind of legal action. Or come up with a list to give to BA in exchange for comp/miners/etc...

There is absolutely 100% NO reason whatsoever you wouldn't be able
to provide all the contact information of a legal representation
and their direct contact information in this forum if this is legit.

[notbatman]

After yesterdays visit to BFL from the FTC fairy I'm guessing Matt is sweating hard enough to extinguish a flaming Prospero X3. With any luck the PRC will follow suit with BA.

[Dallas5]

edit: posted in this thread since the other is moderated by BA.

Well I can confirm that I invested a lot more than 10k with BA through Minersource. Currently I have tried to work out something with Minersource but they have stopped responding to my messages. I will probably end up suing Minersource if they don't get their act together.

If there are any other people in the same situation as myself - please contact me, thank you.

Sue Minersource for what exactly? Im pretty hes even more screwed than everybody else, cause it was this guy's main business. He will likely be declaring bankruptcy, at least we can just write it off.

In other news, Black Arrow responded to an email yesterday saying they cant ship my miner because they had to recall the power supplies, which I am aware of, but does anybody know if I just ask to receive it without a power supply installed will they ship to me as is?

Its an expensive paperweight, a novelty item which Im planning on keeping as a testament to my own hubris.

Sue Minersource for not shipping orders. I don't care if he cannot get the product because his supplier are a bunch of deadbeats living in china.

I sell industrial material, and there is an extensive process in adding a new supplier to the companies approved manufactures list. It takes mulitple on-time shipments of quality products before they will write them a $100,000+ purchase order. It is his fault for not knowing his supplier and jumping the gun with a huge purchase order, sue him. All or at least some of the heat he gets will be transferred on to black arrow, hopefully with a trip to china and some lawyers involved.

I'm still in the same situation, ordered 2 X1's from Minersource last year now I'm still waiting for my promised refund.

I bought the products from Minersource, they have my money I want it back just like Waramp22 has every right by law to have his money returned. It sucks for Minersource that they got screwed by Blackarrow but that doesn't mean they can just get away with not paying back their own customers.

Check out this quote from Minersource owners I got from this crypto new site.

For them it was customers first. Even when Black Arrow was being delayed over and over, they refunded their customers out of their own pockets to make it right.

[Dallas5]

People should start using this thread instead since blackarrow can't delete your posts here.

I have filed a complaint against MS with the FTC and the Attorney General of Colorado. It's a bunch of bullshit that we get no response out of them. My next avenue is going to see what is involved in taking them to small claims. I have tons of air miles/ hotel points/ and free car rental days so it won't cost much of anything to take a trip to Colorado. I'm pretty fed up with this situation. In 3 months it will be a year that I've paid for this elusive product and to keep being told "it will be shipped next week!". 

Let us know the progress, I've failed a complained with the BBB, hopefully that will bring my money back. I'll just keep trying until I get my money back.

[Dallas5]

Re-posted it here so it can't be deleted by BA.

I just received in the mail the Prospero X-1 that I requested a refund on several times over the last several months. It showed up and I said to myself, "Son of a bitch, it's here. I may as well cut my loses and use it." So I took it inside and plugged it in. After plugging it in and setting it to the right pool/worker I noticed it was running very hot. I examined the outside of the box and noticed that the fan was not spinning. I figured, maybe it was being obstructed by something, so I disconnected it and used a paper clip to manually give the fan a little push. It spun around fine, so I figured it must be a fluke and that I should try it again. So I plugged it back in and was immediately greeted by a loud pop and a shower of sparks. I'm repackaging the device now and taking it back to UPS to refuse delivery and have it shipped back to minersource. You now owe me a full refund plus the cost of shipping it back to you. Just be thankful I'm not trying to sue you for personal endangerment.

So the X1 you received even after you asked for a refund died, can you take some pictures before sending it back?

[ElGrandJefe]

Re-posted it here so it can't be deleted by BA.

I just received in the mail the Prospero X-1 that I requested a refund on several times over the last several months. It showed up and I said to myself, "Son of a bitch, it's here. I may as well cut my loses and use it." So I took it inside and plugged it in. After plugging it in and setting it to the right pool/worker I noticed it was running very hot. I examined the outside of the box and noticed that the fan was not spinning. I figured, maybe it was being obstructed by something, so I disconnected it and used a paper clip to manually give the fan a little push. It spun around fine, so I figured it must be a fluke and that I should try it again. So I plugged it back in and was immediately greeted by a loud pop and a shower of sparks. I'm repackaging the device now and taking it back to UPS to refuse delivery and have it shipped back to minersource. You now owe me a full refund plus the cost of shipping it back to you. Just be thankful I'm not trying to sue you for personal endangerment.

That's just the kind of quality control we've come to expect from BA through their warm and cuddly X3 line. Nice to see they're consistent, at least.

[notbatman]

Due to popular demand I'm releasing BlackArrowBitchBot-0.1b for free to any customer who needs it (if BA doesn't have you on the auto-delete list running this will just spam the thread every 15 mins).

After Black Arrow decided to deploy a bot to automatically delete comments from customers complaining about being defrauded I decided to create a bot to re-post the deleted comments.

You will need:

Firefox 3.0 - don't let it auto-upgrade past version 3 as Chickenfoot isn't compatible with newer versions.

http://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-3.0&os=win&lang=en-US

Chickenfoot 1.0.7 (Firefox scripting add-on).

http://groups.csail.mit.edu/uid/chickenfoot/chickenfoot.xpi

Hit F8 to bring up the Chickenfoot window and you'll need to log-on to BCT before the bot can post.

Here's the script just change the message and you're GTG:

go('https://bitcointalk.org/');
function myTimer() {
  var now = new Date();
  var minute = now.getMinutes();
  switch (minute) {
    case 1:
      if (q_one == 0) {
        postIt();
        output('post first quarter');
        q_one = 1;
        q_four = 0;
      };
      break;
    case 16:
      if (q_two == 0) {
        postIt();
        output('post second quarter');
        q_two = 1;
        q_one = 0;
      };
      break;
    case 31:
      if (q_three == 0) {
        postIt();
        output('post third quarter');
        q_three = 1;
        q_two = 0;
      };
      break;
    case 46:
      if (q_four == 0) {
        postIt();
        output('post forth quarter');
        q_four = 1;
        q_three = 0;
      };
     break;
  };
};
function postIt() {
  go('https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=post;topic=294197.0;');
  whenLoaded(function() { output('Loaded'); } );
  var all_textareas = document.getElementsByTagName('textarea');
  for (var i = 0, max = all_textareas.length; i < max; i++) {
    var ta = all_textareas;
    if (!ta.value) {
      ta.value = 'BLACK ARROW LTD IS A SCAM COMAPNY!';
    };
  };
  click('Post');
  return;
};
var q_one = 0;
var q_two = 0;
var q_three = 0;
var q_four = 0;
var myVar = setInterval(function () { myTimer() }, 1000);

[Gleb Gamow]

Due to popular demand I'm releasing BlackArrowBitchBot-0.1b for free to any customer who needs it (if BA doesn't have you on the auto-delete list running this will just spam the thread every 15 mins).

After Black Arrow decided to deploy a bot to automatically delete comments from customers complaining about being defrauded I decided to create a bot to re-post the deleted comments.

You will need:

Firefox 3.0 - don't let it auto-upgrade past version 3 as Chickenfoot isn't compatible with newer versions.

http://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-3.0&os=win&lang=en-US

Chickenfoot 1.0.7 (Firefox scripting add-on).

http://groups.csail.mit.edu/uid/chickenfoot/chickenfoot.xpi

Hit F8 to bring up the Chickenfoot window and you'll need to log-on to BTC before the bot can post.

Here's the script just change the message and you're GTG:

go('https://bitcointalk.org/');
function myTimer() {
  var now = new Date();
  var minute = now.getMinutes();
  switch (minute) {
    case 1:
      if (q_one == 0) {
        postIt();
        output('post first quarter');
        q_one = 1;
        q_four = 0;
      };
      break;
    case 16:
      if (q_two == 0) {
        postIt();
        output('post second quarter');
        q_two = 1;
        q_one = 0;
      };
      break;
    case 31:
      if (q_three == 0) {
        postIt();
        output('post third quarter');
        q_three = 1;
        q_two = 0;
      };
      break;
    case 46:
      if (q_four == 0) {
        postIt();
        output('post forth quarter');
        q_four = 1;
        q_three = 0;
      };
     break;
  };
};
function postIt() {
  go('https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=post;topic=294197.0;');
  whenLoaded(function() { output('Loaded'); } );
  var all_textareas = document.getElementsByTagName('textarea');
  for (var i = 0, max = all_textareas.length; i < max; i++) {
    var ta = all_textareas;
    if (!ta.value) {
      ta.value = 'BLACK ARROW LTD IS A SCAM COMAPNY!';
    };
  };
  click('Post');
  return;
};
var q_one = 0;
var q_two = 0;
var q_three = 0;
var q_four = 0;
var myVar = setInterval(function () { myTimer() }, 1000);

Quoting so that BA can put it in my PM box. 

[Dallas5]

"Defendants either never delivered these machines or delivered them so late that they became obsolete."

Sounds like BA/Minersource, right?

It's about time Minersource and Blackarrow continues/starts sending refunds.

The move comes months after customers began sending complaints to the federal agency, a process that produced nearly 300 complaints accusing the company of delaying shipments and refund payments.

[Syke]

Looks like not many people care enough about their orders to even file a BBB complaint. Only 8 complaints filed.

http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-reviews/computers-hardware-software-and-services/miner-hosting-in-denver-co-90167211/file-a-complaint

[OgNasty]

Looks like not many people care enough about their orders to even file a BBB complaint. Only 8 complaints filed.

http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-reviews/computers-hardware-software-and-services/miner-hosting-in-denver-co-90167211/file-a-complaint

BBB isn't so helpful in this situation.  If anything can be learned from the BFL saga it is that filing complaints with the FTC is the way to get results for this type of fraud.  https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov

[Pentax]

Looks like not many people care enough about their orders to even file a BBB complaint. Only 8 complaints filed.

http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-reviews/computers-hardware-software-and-services/miner-hosting-in-denver-co-90167211/file-a-complaint

I know.  Boggles my fucking mind.  People should be filing complaints with every agency they can find, including the FTC and the BBB.  There are 8 complaints?  EIGHT?  you've got to be fucking kidding me.  no wonder these companies keep getting away with this shit.  OG is right, the BBB can't do much when it comes right down to it, but they investigated Cointerra after several complaints came in there.

People need to realize that they need to take action.  Agencies will do something but not until it looks like a major issue.

There has been a case filed by the FTC against butterfly labs, after many complaints.  point is they are on to this shit.  they've done the legwork and filed a suit.  next time will be easier, as a lot of it is cookie cutter stuff for this situation also.


see coinfinance.com for the article on that.  for whatever reason I can't paste the address of the article in here.  the complaint is there.

[Dallas5]

Looks like not many people care enough about their orders to even file a BBB complaint. Only 8 complaints filed.

http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-reviews/computers-hardware-software-and-services/miner-hosting-in-denver-co-90167211/file-a-complaint

BBB isn't so helpful in this situation.  If anything can be learned from the BFL saga it is that filing complaints with the FTC is the way to get results for this type of fraud.  https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov

I've filled a complaint with the BBB minersource still has some time to refund me, next step will be the FTC.

[Syke]

I've filled a complaint with the BBB minersource still has some time to refund me, next step will be the FTC.

That's the ticket. Sure, BBB doesn't have any real authority, but people have received refunds after filing BBB complaints. On the other hand, filing a complaint online is trivial. If you can't even be bothered to do that, no wonder the manufacturers aren't feeling pressured. No one follows through.

BBB: file complaint online
FTC: file complaint online
Small Claims Court: file complaint online

That's all very easy to do. Yet who has actually folllowed through? The manufacturers just laugh at you if you don't follow through.

[DocNougat]

Anyone want to sit down for story time?

I have filed a complaint with the BBB and the FTC against Miner Hosting LLC and, of course, they chose to ignore the BBB. On Monday of this week I left work early to go to the magistrate court and file a small claims case. Before going to the court house I went home to let my dog out to pee. I was surprised, and kinda pissed off, when upon my arrival I found a package on at the front door from minersource containing not the refund I had requested a dozen times, but the X-1 I told them I did not want. Against my better judgement, I said to myself, "Screw it, I'm tired of dealing with them. I'll just cut my loses and mine with it until it the energy it eats costs more than the money it makes." So I went inside and opened it up. I was surprised once again to see that it was a model with an LCD touchscreen and Wifi, unlike the bare-bones version I received direct from Black Arrow two months ago. I went ahead and plugged it in and pointed it to the right pool/worker and then watched it mine. For about three minutes.

I had noticed on the browser page that it was running significantly hotter than my other one. I took a closer look at the X-1 and noticed that the fan was not spinning. Immediately, I turned it off and unplugged it. My first thought was that perhaps the fan was obstructed, so I gave a little push with a paper clip to test it. The fan seemed to spin fine so I thought I'd try it again. So I reconnected the power, the fan moved a tiny bit and stopped. There was a loud pop when the fan stopped. A few sparks and a fair amount of smoke came pouring out of the power supply. I pulled the power the minute things started to go bad, but I'm very lucky I didn't get electrocuted or burn my house down.

The person identifying himself as Thomas from minersource support offered to send me a new power supply. I told him I was not interested in receiving any Black Arrow products and I was sending this one back. I told him they have until Monday at noon to offer me reasonable restitution of one of these three options:
1) the full refund I requested several times over the last four months
2) a bitmain antminer s3+
or
3) a single BTC garden w/rPi and power adapter

Now very pissed off, I repacked the X-1 and drove to UPS and shipped it to Colorado at my own expense. I emailed Thomas the tracking information, which is more than they did for me, and told him if I hadn't heard a response from them by noon on Monday (eastern time) I would be continuing with my plan to file in small claims court.

So that's where I'm at now.

Also I have my own MS hate thread over on the scam accusations board and you're all invited to the party: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=705442.0

[itsmelondo]

If you live in the United States and did business with Black Arrow, in addition to submitting a complaint through the BBB, you can submit a complaint through:

http://www.econsumer.gov/

This is a site that is run by the FTC specifically for foreign companies.