Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[notbatman]

re: Angry

I find that post a bit misleading; the situation looks like a scam from the beginning when they used our money to buy Bitfury chips for their data centre until currently where they're claiming to have been the victim of theft. It would be ironic that they would have their ill-gotten gains taken from them but the idea that Black Arrow still has control or just sold the coins is gaining traction IMO.

To believe that BA is just an honest company that ran into trouble you first have to believe that the convicted criminal (for fraud over the internet) who runs the show has turned over a new leaf so-to-speak with this company that appears to be based on the BFL business model.

[goozman96]

So the coins people paid have finally been moved from the original wallet it seems. I find it very hard to believe they were stolen and that this is instead just a cover story to claim they don't have the coins anymore, but in reality, secretly control them.

[btmtb]

So the coins people paid have finally been moved from the original wallet it seems. I find it very hard to believe they were stolen and that this is instead just a cover story to claim they don't have the coins anymore, but in reality, secretly control them.

My suspicion exactly. Hopefully someone in the HK Revenue service, and the other countries equivalent, will have the knowhow to follow this up. They still had it as income so appropriate taxes should still be paid. Any losses for following years would be a separate issue.

[notbatman]

The X3 is now worthless trash if you pay more than 21¢ a kWh.

[SimonBeCoinin]

The X3 is now worthless trash if you pay more than 21¢ a kWh.

These things are DOA.

Had they kept their price matching promise, used as a material promise to sell these now literally worthless pieces of shit, consumers might have some shot at getting something back, if they were willing to run a fire hazard in their home, which I'm not.

Now that they've broken that promise people might as well have flung their money out the window while driving down the highway.  That would actually have been better as at least someone would have put the money to good use and it wouldn't have gone to a credit card thief turned ASIC  scammer, as seems to be the case here. 

If you're reading this, fuck you, alex , you worthless, gutless piece of shit, without the common decency or balls to ever step forward to address the customers you've fucked out of their money.

People and companies exactly like this are what is fucking up bitcoin.  the slime of humanity circling, scamming people out of their money, not delivering what they sold, crying like little bitches about everything under the sun except their own fuck-ups, claiming innocence and hiding behind their attorneys.

the only consolation is watching that shitty company burn, just like their crap quality miners. 

[Dallas5]

The X3 is now worthless trash if you pay more than 21¢ a kWh.

Yesterday they tried to deliver the X1's I ordered last year, 6+ months late and even after asking for a refund multiple times. I would now have lost money running those miners. Why would they think it's okay to just sent them anyway? Minersource and Blackarrow know very well how bitcoin mining and difficulty works.

Hope some government agency steps in and makes sure everyone gets their money back like they do with Butterfly labs. There is so much dishonesty in the cryptocurrency world it's sick!  

[greenlion]

So the coins people paid have finally been moved from the original wallet it seems. I find it very hard to believe they were stolen and that this is instead just a cover story to claim they don't have the coins anymore, but in reality, secretly control them.

This apparently is the first hop on their embezzlement scheme

https://blockchain.info/address/1MFJ9d1zq1zLpWu59r5cvYo9vgpeRZMKuw

[sticky]

Did anyone else here wire payment to Black Arrow's HSBC account? Specifically from Bank of America?

It's a long-shot, but a Bank of america investigator asked me if I was aware of any other victims with the same situation. Basically if there is anyone besides myself that paid Black Arrow via wire transfer from BOA to BA's HSBC account, the investigator said he would personally look into the matter if we provide the relevant information to him. (Reference numbers, dates, amounts, etc.) He couldn't go into much detail about what, if anything could be done, but he did say that they (BOA) take these accusations seriously and have worked with Hong Kong Banks and authorities in the past in similar situations. That's basically all he could tell me.

I doubt it would mean refunds, but it could possibly set the groundwork for lawsuits.....

The BOA rep could've been blowing smoke to cover his ass, but at this point I don't think it could hurt to provide the info.

If you paid from BOA via wire, please respond here. I'm not asking for details, but maybe we could get in touch privately and talk with BOA to at least get this stuff on the record.

I'm not expecting a miracle, but would like to let those responsible that none of us are going away, and someone is going to pay for this fiasco in some form.

Good luck to everyone.

[GPK260]

Hi all,
 Just to let you know I'm currently contacting the law offices of Charlotte C.Linn in regard to  a class action law suit against Black Arrow.

They are currently running a class action law suit against  KNC for much less than Black arrow has done. Over at : http://kncclassaction.com/

I'm looking at the possibilty with them of doing the same against Black arrow for us.

It is early days at the moment but if you have ANY information that may or even not be useful Can you  let  me have a copy?

Screen shots, Broken promises, Messages from and to, Information about BA or Alex in fact pretty much anything that may help

I dont want order numbers or address' etc at this stage I want to collate information to pass onto them.

You even have to supply a name that way we have the information ready for them.

If you would like to email it to me you can at the following address

NoMoreBlackarrow@outlook.com

(even if you dont thing it woudl be helpfull please still pass it  onto me)

[SimonBeCoinin]

from their forum


"Dear Customer,

 We apologize for the delayed response.

 Unfortunately currently we are unable to provide refunds as we spent money for units production, as or X-3 units we can offer refund for unspent money part, which is 48$ + shipping fee.
 As for X-1 units we are currently selling them paying a part from our own money. So unfortunately we are unable to refund money.

 There is few compensation options unfortunately they cannot be added to each other.

 1 50% bonus to original hashing power purchased in hardware, dispatched after main order queue is cleared.
 2 Hosting of devices, we provide hosting without charges expect for power cost, that are deducted from Bitcoin earned, you will receive rest of the BTC. Once power cost exceeds the produced BTC, we keep the miner ion our datacenter and ownership are transffered to Black Arrow. Shipping fee will also be used to cover power cost. Current estimated cost of power is 0.6 RMB per 1 TH an hour. (power cost are subject to adjustment as we still calculate exact cost).
 3 We offer to exchange each X-3 purchased for 120 ASIC minion chips. Please note that chips are not plug and play product, they require advanced engineering and SMT assembly.


 Regards Alexey A.


 Regards,
 Black Arrow Team"

[Dallas5]

Hi all,
 Just to let you know I'm currently contacting the law offices of Charlotte C.Linn in regard to  a class action law suit against Black Arrow.

They are currently running a class action law suit against  KNC for much less than Black arrow has done. Over at : http://kncclassaction.com/

I'm looking at the possibilty with them of doing the same against Black arrow for us.

It is early days at the moment but if you have ANY information that may or even not be useful Can you  let  me have a copy?

Screen shots, Broken promises, Messages from and to, Information about BA or Alex in fact pretty much anything that may help

I dont want order numbers or address' etc at this stage I want to collate information to pass onto them.

You even have to supply a name that way we have the information ready for them.

If you would like to email it to me you can at the following address

NoMoreBlackarrow@outlook.com

(even if you dont thing it would be helpfull please still pass it  onto me)

I know this will probably get deleted but I've finally had enough of all the lies and broken promises

Just to update you as had a few questions from people -

Charlotte is VERY interested I'm going to catch up with her hopefully  early part of next week and will pass on whatever information is sent to me.

Black Arrow know my order number so they know I'm not just competition trying to ruin them (they are doing a pretty good job as it is). I, like the majority of you, am customer that sank in my case over $6000 in to Black arrow along with a friend who sank over $12000 into them. I'm just fed up of the lies, broken promises and silence from  Black Arrow.
US people are interested in Also passing details of minersource on to her. I have no problem with that  - I have not ordered but I am more than happy to include thier details to her as well as they seem to have stopped refunding people.

Thanks

I'm in Europe but please mention Minersource, they keep ignoring me and even tried to ship 2 worthless miners to me last week (6+ months delayed) even after the order was cancelled and refunds were promised. If you need any details you can PM me.

Last Monday I've sent an email to Miner Hosting LLC/ Minersource stating that I would accept a refund of $200 less then I paid, so far no response. It's all very disappointing and I hope to soon leave this mess behind me but I can't just give up and lose so much money.

[kfactor]

... 2 Hosting of devices, we provide hosting without charges expect for power cost, that are deducted from Bitcoin earned, you will receive rest of the BTC. Once power cost exceeds the produced BTC, we keep the miner ion our datacenter and ownership are transffered to Black Arrow. Shipping fee will also be used to cover power cost. Current estimated cost of power is 0.6 RMB per 1 TH an hour. (power cost are subject to adjustment as we still calculate exact cost) ...

They must be proud of themselves for thinking up that bullshit

[GPK260]

Hi all,
 Just to let you know I'm currently contacting the law offices of Charlotte C.Linn in regard to  a class action law suit against Black Arrow.

They are currently running a class action law suit against  KNC for much less than Black arrow has done. Over at : http://kncclassaction.com/

I'm looking at the possibilty with them of doing the same against Black arrow for us.

It is early days at the moment but if you have ANY information that may or even not be useful Can you  let  me have a copy?

Screen shots, Broken promises, Messages from and to, Information about BA or Alex in fact pretty much anything that may help

I dont want order numbers or address' etc at this stage I want to collate information to pass onto them.

You even have to supply a name that way we have the information ready for them.

If you would like to email it to me you can at the following address

NoMoreBlackarrow@outlook.com

(even if you dont thing it would be helpfull please still pass it  onto me)

I know this will probably get deleted but I've finally had enough of all the lies and broken promises

Just to update you as had a few questions from people -

Charlotte is VERY interested I'm going to catch up with her hopefully  early part of next week and will pass on whatever information is sent to me.

Black Arrow know my order number so they know I'm not just competition trying to ruin them (they are doing a pretty good job as it is). I, like the majority of you, am customer that sank in my case over $6000 in to Black arrow along with a friend who sank over $12000 into them. I'm just fed up of the lies, broken promises and silence from  Black Arrow.
US people are interested in Also passing details of minersource on to her. I have no problem with that  - I have not ordered but I am more than happy to include thier details to her as well as they seem to have stopped refunding people.

Thanks

I'm in Europe but please mention Minersource, they keep ignoring me and even tried to ship 2 worthless miners to me last week (6+ months delayed) even after the order was cancelled and refunds were promised. If you need any details you can PM me.

Last Monday I've sent an email to Miner Hosting LLC/ Minersource stating that I would accept a refund of $200 less then I paid, so far no response. It's all very disappointing and I hope to soon leave this mess behind me but I can't just give up and lose so much money.

I'm in europe too  although I ordered direct from BA but indeed will do

[greenlion]

... 2 Hosting of devices, we provide hosting without charges expect for power cost, that are deducted from Bitcoin earned, you will receive rest of the BTC. Once power cost exceeds the produced BTC, we keep the miner ion our datacenter and ownership are transffered to Black Arrow. Shipping fee will also be used to cover power cost. Current estimated cost of power is 0.6 RMB per 1 TH an hour. (power cost are subject to adjustment as we still calculate exact cost) ...

They must be proud of themselves for thinking up that bullshit

They seem to be willing to do and say just about anything, as long as it involves them not actually providing a product or service, and simply slowly paying you back a small fraction of the bitcoins you paid which they never cashed out.

[SimonBeCoinin]

... 2 Hosting of devices, we provide hosting without charges expect for power cost, that are deducted from Bitcoin earned, you will receive rest of the BTC. Once power cost exceeds the produced BTC, we keep the miner ion our datacenter and ownership are transffered to Black Arrow. Shipping fee will also be used to cover power cost. Current estimated cost of power is 0.6 RMB per 1 TH an hour. (power cost are subject to adjustment as we still calculate exact cost) ...

They must be proud of themselves for thinking up that bullshit

yep.  your minerz are mein.

your moniez is mein.

we host until we decide we don't anymore.  and we're keeping what you paid for shipping because we suck major donkey ass and don't think you're smart enough to realize that that is further loss to you also.

typical bullshit from these people.  how is that compensation?  just another anal rape from the company that brings you more prison shower scenes than anyone in the ASIC manufacturing space.

fucking assholes.

[ElGrandJefe]

It gets even better: "Send us the defective PSUs that we recalled and told you not to use under any circumstances. We will test them and if we discover that we actually didn't send one that explodes, we'll charge you an extra fee for testing and postage."

It almost seems like parody, but unfortunately is completely true:

08 Sept 2014: X3 Power supply recall

There have been reports that some X3s are failing. We have located this problem to be caused by the power supply.
Please note that this power supply is not manufactured by Black Arrow and has been purchased from a company in Shenzhen which sold it to us as CE certified.

After thorough investigations the power supply company has reached the conclusion that there are 3 major issues in this PSU and any PSU can fail at any time and it not safe to use. They have currently fixed the issues and are currently testing them.

Please stop using all X3s immediately!

We are recalling the X3 power supplies. Please do not ship your X3 unit or X3 Power supply back to us right now. We will contact the X3 customers later this week with more instructions on how to arrange shipping. If you have an X3 and have not received an email from us this week please contact our customer support immediately.

According to Nemesidis, this has now changed to

Please send not working ones for replacement, include ticket number as RMA number.

Unfortunately we cannot replace something that is sitting at your place, we need to receive it, file it and find a cause. After that, replacements will be issued. We are unable to replace units or parts, without receiving ones that has problems back. Please note that if found working, or mechanically damaged, additional charges can be applied for replacement and testing of such parts.

1) Recall all PSUs and tell people to unplug and RMA them.
2) If any of the PSUs actually does work, charge customers an additional fee for testing and replacement.
3) PROFIT!!!

This is complete and total bullshit.

Cocks.

[SimonBeCoinin]

It gets even better: "Send us the defective PSUs that we recalled and told you not to use under any circumstances. We will test them and if we discover that we actually didn't send one that explodes, we'll charge you an extra fee for testing and postage."

It almost seems like parody, but unfortunately is completely true:

08 Sept 2014: X3 Power supply recall

There have been reports that some X3s are failing. We have located this problem to be caused by the power supply.
Please note that this power supply is not manufactured by Black Arrow and has been purchased from a company in Shenzhen which sold it to us as CE certified.

After thorough investigations the power supply company has reached the conclusion that there are 3 major issues in this PSU and any PSU can fail at any time and it not safe to use. They have currently fixed the issues and are currently testing them.

Please stop using all X3s immediately!

We are recalling the X3 power supplies. Please do not ship your X3 unit or X3 Power supply back to us right now. We will contact the X3 customers later this week with more instructions on how to arrange shipping. If you have an X3 and have not received an email from us this week please contact our customer support immediately.

According to Nemesidis, this has now changed to

Please send not working ones for replacement, include ticket number as RMA number.

Unfortunately we cannot replace something that is sitting at your place, we need to receive it, file it and find a cause. After that, replacements will be issued. We are unable to replace units or parts, without receiving ones that has problems back. Please note that if found working, or mechanically damaged, additional charges can be applied for replacement and testing of such parts.

1) Recall all PSUs and tell people to unplug and RMA them.
2) If any of the PSUs actually does work, charge customers an additional fee for testing and replacement.
3) PROFIT!!!

This is complete and total bullshit.

Cocks.

bu


oh look, it's Black Arrow fucking it's customers again.

send us the PSU's that could cause the miner to burn your house down and if that PSU by some miracle actually runs we charge you for testing and replacement.

this just gets dumber and dumber and their actions just get shittier and shittier.

I would have thought that impossible as my opinion already is that these people are total lying pieces of shit that don't deserve a spot next to dog crap on the bottom of my shoe, but they always surprise me with that "spare capacity to learn" new ways to fuck the people they are already fucking.



This is YOUR issue Black Arrow, created by either your incompetence in design or lack of testing or it sits with the supplier.  Either way this is not something you pass to your customers, you low life pieces of shit.

[notbatman]

What we're looking at here is the breakdown of society. A company is openly committing theft against its customers and is allowed to remain in business.

[DonRavy]

It's getting better still - this is a direct copy/paste from my RMA ticket (note: I've asked them to initiate the return shipment or provide their DHL International customer number so they can be billed for the return shipment):

Dear Customer,

We understand your situation and it's your right to apply to instances you deem necessary.
I have forwarded you information to our management for a decision, however threats are barely can be called - politely - and i am sure you are also well aware of this.
Also, you must be well aware of any other operating company practices, the hardware must be returned for inspection and replacement, such repair or replacement should be done in a set time frame.
We do not refuse to replace or repair hardware, however as per agreement shipment cost has to be covered by customer. As we have not inspected it and cannot conclude what have caused devices to malfunction. If you return the hardware and there is indeed production defect found related to our product, you can claim shipment cost. Please provide us with official independent expertise, that in a fact miner has hardware issues and must be replaced, that it had any defects that we are knowingly ignored and shipped you a faulty hardware by intent. Otherwise, unfortunately we are unable to come to conclusion if miner actually has issue, or that it's problems are caused by any other means that improper operational conditions. In any way, unit has to be sent to court for conclusion and for verdict regarding it's inability to operate. If you do not wish unit to be inspected by us and replaced, you can apply for such independent expertise. However to my knowledge the cost of shipment will be much lower and it will take much less time than means of replacement we offer as it's cost are only shipment fee.

Above i have stated best resolution for this situation, however if you do not agree with it it's your right to proceed as deemed necessary. i must point out again, we do not refuse to accept hardware for warranty, but our customer refuses to deliver hardware to us for inspection.
Please note, that if hardware are found working, or i there is mechanical damage we will be unable to provide service free of charge. Testing fee for working products are 90$ + shipment costs, for damaged hardware cost are calculated based on damaged parts.

Regards Alexey A.

Note: Alexey A. is Nemesidis on the forum
Note 2: bold emphasis is mine

So I gotta get an independent source, respectively a court to confirm the unit is broken before sending it in for RMA. I feel like I'm in the middle of a monty python's movie and a goddamn shoe is about to stomp me flat.

[goozman96]

It seems like the Black Arrow bot has been turned off. My post in the moderated thread hasn't been deleted for a while now.