ANTMINER S4 2TH/s, Batch 1 on Sale this week, shipping before Sept. Ends

[suchmoon]

I didn't say it was.  I said if they pretend that was never said.  You know, similar to how they said S3 Batch 1 customers would receive a rebate/coupon when they missed their promised hashrate.  Then they didn't do what they said and NEVER mentioned it again.

Are you trying to say they did not compensate Batch 1 customers?

Did the S1 upgrades get released the same day as the S3's?  Nope.  Patience, they will come.

You have nothing on which to base that statement.  In fact, BITMAIN's past behavior supports my expectation.

How come? S1 upgrade kit is available. Is that "nothing"?

That's a fair point.

I'm more referring to these posters who act like they have some special insight into the workings of BITMAIN.

Still waiting on my compensation from Batch 1 S3 purchase.

You might want to mention that your coupon issue is with a reseller, not Bitmain directly. I'm not trying to dismiss it and I get that it's a concern for you, but reseller's actions or lack thereof has nothing to do with the potential S2 upgrade availability.

[tripppn]

I didn't say it was.  I said if they pretend that was never said.  You know, similar to how they said S3 Batch 1 customers would receive a rebate/coupon when they missed their promised hashrate.  Then they didn't do what they said and NEVER mentioned it again.

Are you trying to say they did not compensate Batch 1 customers?

Did the S1 upgrades get released the same day as the S3's?  Nope.  Patience, they will come.

You have nothing on which to base that statement.  In fact, BITMAIN's past behavior supports my expectation.

How come? S1 upgrade kit is available. Is that "nothing"?

That's a fair point.

I'm more referring to these posters who act like they have some special insight into the workings of BITMAIN.

Still waiting on my compensation from Batch 1 S3 purchase.

You might want to mention that your coupon issue is with a reseller, not Bitmain directly. I'm not trying to dismiss it and I get that it's a concern for you, but reseller's actions or lack thereof has nothing to do with the potential S2 upgrade availability.

BURN!

[Henchman24]

I didn't say it was.  I said if they pretend that was never said.  You know, similar to how they said S3 Batch 1 customers would receive a rebate/coupon when they missed their promised hashrate.  Then they didn't do what they said and NEVER mentioned it again.

Are you trying to say they did not compensate Batch 1 customers?

Did the S1 upgrades get released the same day as the S3's?  Nope.  Patience, they will come.

You have nothing on which to base that statement.  In fact, BITMAIN's past behavior supports my expectation.

How come? S1 upgrade kit is available. Is that "nothing"?

That's a fair point.

I'm more referring to these posters who act like they have some special insight into the workings of BITMAIN.

Still waiting on my compensation from Batch 1 S3 purchase.

You might want to mention that your coupon issue is with a reseller, not Bitmain directly. I'm not trying to dismiss it and I get that it's a concern for you, but reseller's actions or lack thereof has nothing to do with the potential S2 upgrade availability.

Yeah, I can see where that might not be exactly fair.  My hostility with 112bit.com (Official Bitmain reseller for the US) is probably definitely coloring my judgement.

Let's wait and see how it works out with the S2 upgrades.  I'll be quite happy to eat my share of crow if things turn out other than how I expect.

Thank you for being civil.

[Rabinovitch]

As usual, they making money with units which hashing for them. If profit was small they wouldn't sell them and just drop everything to make as much btc as possible.

You want really cheap miner? Stop buying them and watch what will happen with price.

+
But only if all of us stop buying Bitmain's hardware... Just for 2 weeks.

[Finksy]

I didn't say it was.  I said if they pretend that was never said.  You know, similar to how they said S3 Batch 1 customers would receive a rebate/coupon when they missed their promised hashrate.  Then they didn't do what they said and NEVER mentioned it again.

Are you trying to say they did not compensate Batch 1 customers?

Did the S1 upgrades get released the same day as the S3's?  Nope.  Patience, they will come.

You have nothing on which to base that statement.  In fact, BITMAIN's past behavior supports my expectation.

How come? S1 upgrade kit is available. Is that "nothing"?

That's a fair point.

You are right in that they did state they expect to release in August/September, but they didn't give a concrete date and we are still in September. Not to mention this was from May, which is like a century in this industry.

A short good news for the S2 buyer is that we will let the S2 to upgrade to 1.8TH/s or 2TH/s at very low cost which you can only image now in the August or September. It still depends on many factors to let us achieve that and detailed plan needs to be drafted, But we are very confident that we can make it.

I'm more referring to these posters who act like they have some special insight into the workings of BITMAIN.

It sounds like this is directed at me. The only insight I have is to trends and rational business decisions.  S1 came before S2, S3 came before S1 Upgrade, exactly as expected.  Why would S2 upgrades, using same chips as S4's, come before S4 sales?  They are a business trying to expand their customer base as well as keep their existing customers happy, but priorities exist. There is absolutely no benefit to taking the same chips from their current manufacturing of S3's and soon S4's which will sell like hotcakes and put them into S2 upgrades for their existing customers, because those customers will surely still be there when the S4 sales slow down, and the S2 upgrades get released.

Now, if you just want to chastise a manufacturer about missing deadlines and under-performing, you should bark up another tree.  Bitmain is one of the few that have treated their customers with respect, and I for one can't see where they failed to deliver on a promise, with the exception of hashrate for the early S3 batches.  They are still better than nearly every other manufacturer on the market today, which is why they have so many fan-boys sticking up for them.  Like me.

[opieum2]

I didn't say it was.  I said if they pretend that was never said.  You know, similar to how they said S3 Batch 1 customers would receive a rebate/coupon when they missed their promised hashrate.  Then they didn't do what they said and NEVER mentioned it again.

Are you trying to say they did not compensate Batch 1 customers?

Did the S1 upgrades get released the same day as the S3's?  Nope.  Patience, they will come.

You have nothing on which to base that statement.  In fact, BITMAIN's past behavior supports my expectation.

How come? S1 upgrade kit is available. Is that "nothing"?

That's a fair point.

You are right in that they did state they expect to release in August/September, but they didn't give a concrete date and we are still in September. Not to mention this was from May, which is like a century in this industry.

A short good news for the S2 buyer is that we will let the S2 to upgrade to 1.8TH/s or 2TH/s at very low cost which you can only image now in the August or September. It still depends on many factors to let us achieve that and detailed plan needs to be drafted, But we are very confident that we can make it.

I'm more referring to these posters who act like they have some special insight into the workings of BITMAIN.

It sounds like this is directed at me. The only insight I have is to trends and rational business decisions.  S1 came before S2, S3 came before S1 Upgrade, exactly as expected.  Why would S2 upgrades, using same chips as S4's, come before S4 sales?  They are a business trying to expand their customer base as well as keep their existing customers happy, but priorities exist. There is absolutely no benefit to taking the same chips from their current manufacturing of S3's and soon S4's which will sell like hotcakes and put them into S2 upgrades for their existing customers, because those customers will surely still be there when the S4 sales slow down, and the S2 upgrades get released.

Now, if you just want to chastise a manufacturer about missing deadlines and under-performing, you should bark up another tree.  Bitmain is one of the few that have treated their customers with respect, and I for one can't see where they failed to deliver on a promise, with the exception of hashrate for the early S3 batches.  They are still better than nearly every other manufacturer on the market today, which is why they have so many fan-boys sticking up for them.  Like me.

To point out even with that S3 batch, they still comped people for it. May not have been much for some people but a 10 percent discount was a nice touch on selling more hardware. Or 7 percent refund to make up for the loss. Not great, but its better than all other manufacturers out there

[newguy05]

You idiots should stop funding Chinese mining farm.... seriously you think you can beat them?

For every S4 sold, it will fund 5x S4s for their farm.

Bullshit.

I don't believe for a second that Bitmaintech is making a huge profit on every miner they sell. Guy from Spondoolies, who knows a heck of a lot more about other manufacturer costs than you do, said that Bitmaintech's margins are very, very low in the post below.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521520.msg8516387#msg8516387

A bit of simple math proves that he is correct. A S3 currently sells at .58 BTC, which is ~$264 at the current BTC price of $455. Bitmain has non recurring costs for engineering and development, labor costs for assembly, facility overhead costs, material costs, taxes, and shipping costs. After everything is said and done, I would be surprised if they make a 10% profit on each S3 sold.

Bitmain is making their money by selling a lot of miners with a really low profit on each one.

I honestly don't know how bitmain makes money. The hardware and labor is relatively inexpensive. Probably around $50. But the international express shipping is the killer. Retail price to ship the s3 from china to usa is around $200. I am sure he gets some discount but how much lower can he get?  Probably make $50 for each unit sold.

Folks we are close to the break even point now for the 20/28 nm. I foresee many hardware companies cease to operate if the price remains depressed and difficulty continue to go up at 10% a clip.  Sit back and watch history unfold.

[gonzo_ucab]

This is when the guys with free electricity like me smile.

History will unfold good returns on me.

[MarketTime]

This is when the guys with free electricity like me smile.

History will unfold good returns on me.

Really? how many free electricity do you have? If you can only house 1 S4 then whats the point..

[philipma1957]

This is when the guys with free electricity like me smile.

History will unfold good returns on me.

Really? how many free electricity do you have? If you can only house 1 S4 then whats the point..

well if 1 s4 = 1 kwatt  and he has 10 kwatts to spare in a soon to be fall northern hemisphere location.  his cost may be under 200 bucks for the next 6 months. 

 20th will mine 45 btc  at 10 % diff
20th will mine 24 btc at 20% diff


now this means 10 units at 2.4 coins would certain make money for him
10 units at 3 coins each would most likely make money for him
and 10 units at 4 coins each may turn a profit

[Master One]

I can only hope @BITMAIN considers the fact, that difficulty will go THROUGH THE ROOF with the next jump now that the network hash rate went beyond 260 PH/s, when announcing the price for S4!

[vortexz]

it's thursday and still no news... come on guys !
you can do this !

[Rabinovitch]

Trust me, they'll do... Will you buy S4 or will you wait for a week to force Bitmain make it's price lower? 

[lowbander80]

I'm, as always, interested on new products of bitmaintech. But I continue to prefer modular design

Plus they benefit from the mining for some days before they ship anything, this helps them reduce the
manufacturing cost.Then taxation is something that in china is low for the moment comparing to Europe where taxation is nearly 30+ %



If lets say Spondoolies move the factory to China for cost purposes will it be the same cost
guess not

[Tupsu]

Funny B9 of the S3+ sells out, JUST before S4 price announcement and sales open. Can anyone else hear the giant FART that was B8 & B9, lol sell out right right, more like sheeet no one is buying must lower price quick before next SP-T delivery, sheeet..

ROFLMAO at these manufacturers eating each other, ahh too much fun.

Seriously 2.0BTC for S4 and B10 S3+ at 0.40BTC

It must be at least $1,390.00 But probably is even more expensive.

must be? i don't think that it must be.
it has to have the right price to sell.

For comparison is used SP20 price and shipping cost. $1,190.00+$160 (EU) +$119 (US) second half of October

...  I'm guessing S4 will be close to 3 BTC.  Prob just under. and be about 1200W

There is no doubt that the price of the  antminer S4 be not in BTC but in dollars.
 Price:      0 USD ( 0 BTC )  .
https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140916100720380cS1tRWd00684

[aclass]

There is no doubt that the price of the  antminer S4 be not in BTC but in dollars.
 Price:      0 USD ( 0 BTC )  .
https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140916100720380cS1tRWd00684

You see ... The same way they can add a certain product, they can also change any of it's specs ... like price and currency, you know... so doubt there is

[TheJuice]

Funny B9 of the S3+ sells out, JUST before S4 price announcement and sales open. Can anyone else hear the giant FART that was B8 & B9, lol sell out right right, more like sheeet no one is buying must lower price quick before next SP-T delivery, sheeet..

ROFLMAO at these manufacturers eating each other, ahh too much fun.

Seriously 2.0BTC for S4 and B10 S3+ at 0.40BTC

It must be at least $1,390.00 But probably is even more expensive.

must be? i don't think that it must be.
it has to have the right price to sell.

For comparison is used SP20 price and shipping cost. $1,190.00+$160 (EU) +$119 (US) second half of October

...  I'm guessing S4 will be close to 3 BTC.  Prob just under. and be about 1200W

There is no doubt that the price of the  antminer S4 be not in BTC but in dollars.
 Price:      0 USD ( 0 BTC )  .
https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140916100720380cS1tRWd00684

With BTC dropping recently it's going to be interesting with currency they choose. I'm afraid, sadly, it's hard to justify more than 1.75 BTC for this machine. @ 10% inc per difficulty at 1600 watts; revenue > costs for only 5 more months. And you'd only gross 1.2 BTCs. @ 6% difficulty is where you see it make 2btcs.

[cloh76]

Does the S2 make more noise (Fan-wise) then the S1?  Just want to get an idea what to expect from the S4 vs the S1/S3 since I will probably put this in my office if I get it

[allcoinminer]

The mining game is over for domestic miners.
Now need some new breakthrough technology to again start the cycle.
Cloud mining is everywhere and a lot of people are into it even though it will never even ROI.
Bitcoin is in the saturation state and majority of self miners are novice and as in every field like insurance, mutual funds, the manufactures are juicing it.

[s1gs3gv]

With BTC dropping recently it's going to be interesting with currency they choose. I'm afraid, sadly, it's hard to justify more than 1.75 BTC for this machine.

2 BTC max. But there is no chance Bitmain will sell them that cheap. They'd be better off keeping them and mining themselves.
Bitmain typically prices new gear higher than the expected revenue over the life of the machine when deployed by the average home miner.

They look after #1. Like all the other manufacturers these days, their pricing policies are predatory.