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Author Topic: ANTMINER S4 2TH/s, Batch 1 on Sale this week, shipping before Sept. Ends  (Read 32932 times)
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September 24, 2014, 07:39:27 PM
 #421

With BTC being so low... $1500 is a bit much.  about 100 day ROI if your lucky.  I'll stick with my S3s  Grin

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September 24, 2014, 07:50:42 PM
 #422

100 days ROI ? add 20-25 % import tax, a pretty optimistic only 15 % diff increase and you will ROI not even in 1000 days


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September 24, 2014, 07:59:34 PM
 #423

just take a look here guys :



i've added 24 % import tax, so price went up to 1800$ (it's my import tax in my country),i rated the energy costs at 0.1$ which is still pretty low ( in my country it's at 0.17 $, and a diff increase of only 10 % ( let's be realistic, will be much higher)
results : spend a total of 4.11 BTC and after 279 days you will still be minus 1.61 BTC



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analoxide
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September 24, 2014, 08:07:07 PM
 #424

Still a render, no photos.
Also need power draw please Bitmain.

Right from hashnest.com -- > https://www.hashnest.com/uploads/hash_introduction_file/hash_introduction_file/image_file/1/umisoo3.jpg

https://www.hashnest.com/uploads/hash_introduction_file/hash_introduction_file/image_file/1/umisoo3.jpg

This looks very close to the rendering and they have built there entire mining farm using these.

Typical... Mine using your own hardware for months, then when the ROI is bad dump the overflow inventory on the consumers.

Fairly certain that those are all S2

they tell you they are s-2's in reality the chances are more likely they are a mix of s-2's and s-4's.  Same case same fans.



I saw that and I was wondering why the s2's went away so fast. Even with their original problems and their power draw, it was a good machine. They shot out the S3 and that was the end of the 2's. Now I see that 4300+ S2's are tucked away in their own farm and they sent us the defective (well not to spec) S3's instead.

As I posted a day ago, I was concerned about the ROI on the S4 as I thought something like that was going to happen and sure enough, at $1450, it did! Someone then says that if I have to worry about ROI that I shouldn't be in mining!!! Guess what, looks like NO ONE should be now since at $1450, unless you get power for free and still care to waste your time and money to make what little scraps are left that these manufacturers let us have, it's not worth it anymore!

I'm getting power here in the states (Illinois) on average of 4.9 cents a KWH and it's still not worth it. As someone else posted, unless you have machines that are paid for, and a good amount of them, and can absorb the cost of the S4's into your running farm, that's the only way you have any shot at this price. These machines need to be at $999.00 each or less. I liked someone assessment of around $700.00. I mean, more money and research has gone into making TV's than could ever go into these miners and with the manufacturers subsidizing themselves with cloud mining as well as taking pre-orders and waiting a month to ship (which the whole time they are just using your machines to make the money mining with them and if you don't think they aren't then you're a fool! They get the absolute lowest cost per bitcoin as they are using todays difficulty on a machine that they not only SOLD to you at a PROFIT but are mining for FREE with it for a month and then sending it to you so you can use it to get what's left of the difficulty before the machine is no longer worth running or keeping anymore! Then you end up on their doorstep waiting like an idiot to buy the next thing (S4 which has been produced and running for over a month now and can easily be proven by looking at the huge increase in hashing out there in the last few weeks when Bitmain and more everyone else were not shipping much of anything to anyone!!!)) you would think that they could and would easily sell these new machines for far less than what they are. Every machine they sell as of this minute is probably close to 90% pure profit for them since they already made money on it mining with it and at a far lower difficulty than the new owners of the machine will ever get to enjoy. (Sorry for the redundancy but I hate companies that take advantage of people so blatantly)

)  
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September 24, 2014, 08:16:45 PM
 #425

How many bitcoins do I need for an S4?



I'll go collect some now Smiley
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September 24, 2014, 08:17:42 PM
 #426

Bitmain in the past has been the choice for the home miner, but this was just a plain and simple "Screw You". I guess I will be buying more Tubes going forward.

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September 24, 2014, 08:19:13 PM
 #427

S3 miner was 0.58. 6 of those (2.8 Th/s) comes in at the same price for way more hashes.

Would it not cost more in electricity to run 5 x S3's than an S4?

Some questions that will help
1/ What would be the total cost of 4 or 5 stock S3's INCLUDING PSUs
2/ Can the S4 be overclocked
3/ What is the power efficiency at the wall

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September 24, 2014, 08:24:21 PM
 #428

I did a calculation with a generous 15% difficulty and 2 TH/s output. At 100 days, an S4 will produce a little more than 2 BTC. This is before power costs (which in my case is free).

These units have to come down to under $1k, or BTC has to rally to something like $725 (getting the price per unit down to about 2 BTC) before these would make any sense.

Since neither event is likely to happen, I'm staying clear of the S4.

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September 24, 2014, 08:25:22 PM
 #429

i found interesting results for S4 price (lead time first week of october, 1550$ total paid)

roi in 12 months with free power Smiley

mine + sell (weekly payout)         3.74 ฿         943.36 $
mine + hold (final payout)         3.74 ฿         943.38 $
฿ buy-in only (and hold)         3.74 ฿         1550 $

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=29829733124&dcosts=1550&diff_mincrease=10&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=2000000&diff_mincreasedecrease=1&btcusd=414.28&dpowcon=1400&btcusd_mincrease=0&pcost=0.05&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=2&action=calc
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September 24, 2014, 08:30:14 PM
 #430

price is high will not be buying it...
I will go for the SP as I have PSUs and will enjoy the higher selling price for used unit afterwords...
its a pity that I waited
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September 24, 2014, 08:39:01 PM
 #431

they tell you they are s-2's in reality the chances are more likely they are a mix of s-2's and s-4's.  Same case same fans.

The ad said S4 is 3U, and the rendering on the website seems to match that. S2 is 4U.

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September 24, 2014, 08:42:15 PM
 #432

Wow...it's like a big F U to the community that support them.

$1450 or 3.389 BTC is just ridiculously priced for October launch.

No ROI in sight for anyone.  Please community do not buy this, and enable the manufacturers to keep screwing you on outdated overpriced gear.

No hardware is close to ROI right now in the first place, but hate to say it, the AM Prisma is a way better buy.

If you're going to mine at all, do the right thing, and let your money do the talking.

Boycott this one, and order from a much fairer deal.  Order from Crazy Guy's group buy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=795477.0

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September 24, 2014, 08:51:14 PM
 #433

If Bitcoin wasn't at $425 the ROI would be much better. That's the issue. Is that the unit is priced in USD but paid in BTC.

If Bitcoin was trading at $1000, the unit would cost 1.45 BTC and would be a no brainer.

But then again, if BTC was at $1000 they likely wouldn't be shipping these any time soon. 

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September 24, 2014, 08:55:19 PM
 #434

If you look at hashnest and how they integrated 2:1 the Antminer s1 into "UMISOO" or S2's you can see that these are going to be the upgrade for the S2's that people have been asking for.

People looking to get "new"software might want to look at the L1. Bitmain is holding the line here with this price, to me It feels like they would rather slow sales, and keep a margin, then price themselves out of a profitable business model.

Anyways, the S5 or whatever the next gen bitcoin miner that comes out from bitmain will say a lot more about the future and where this company is heading. This machine is clearly about the past, and making good on promises to the s2 holders.

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September 24, 2014, 08:56:44 PM
 #435

That price is outrageous! Even with free electricity (and assuming a 15% ave diff increase) it will produce less than 2 bitcoins over its lifetime.  Thats right, wont even 50% ROI with free electricity.

I truly feel sorry for anyone dumb enough to buy this machine at those prices.
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September 24, 2014, 09:02:10 PM
 #436

If they want them to sell, they need to get bitcoin back up to $1000 usd fast or sell them for 1.5 BTC and they can hold the bitcoins waiting for the price to increase  Grin

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September 24, 2014, 09:02:47 PM
 #437

I own three S2's (1THs) that run right at 550-720GHs poolside if rebooted twice a week. Otherwise less. One has a hashing board that dies after 5-6 hours (all x's) until it get s hard boot.

I had hoped to bump them out of service, replacing them with S4's. After seeing the initial release price, there's no way I can gamble another round. I got taken once. It won't happen again. Sorry, Bitmain. Not even close to being worth the risk. I see how you treated me on S2's and S3 Batch 1-4. Your customer relations are as shaky as your hardware.

(Full disclosure: I have ten S1's and two S3+'s and love every one of them. The S2's are just absolute dogs and S4 pricing is a farce.)
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September 24, 2014, 09:09:47 PM
 #438

2TH with four s3 would have costed 2.32 BTC ,,, Facepalm
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September 24, 2014, 09:16:19 PM
 #439

I own three S2's (1THs) that run right at 550-720GHs poolside if rebooted twice a week. Otherwise less. One has a hashing board that dies after 5-6 hours (all x's) until it get s hard boot.

I had hoped to bump them out of service, replacing them with S4's. After seeing the initial release price, there's no way I can gamble another round. I got taken once. It won't happen again. Sorry, Bitmain. Not even close to being worth the risk. I see how you treated me on S2's and S3 Batch 1-4. Your customer relations are as shaky as your hardware.

(Full disclosure: I have ten S1's and two S3+'s and love every one of them. The S2's are just absolute dogs and S4 pricing is a farce.)


What about holding out to see what the S2 Upgrade kit looks like?

The experience that you and many others have had with S2s is a reason why I will never buy a batch 1 product from any manufacturer.  I'd rather let impatient people be the testers and I'll wait for price to come down and see how they are working for people before I buy.

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September 24, 2014, 09:19:08 PM
 #440

I am curious and anxiously awaiting to see what the S3+ B10 prices at. Our B8 and B9 units are working great.

I think BitMain honestly got a little screwed by the big price drop of Bitcoin, even with the paypal recovery it's not enough. They are in business to make money, which you can't fault them for. Smart business owners look to achieve the highest profit margins based on supply and demand, cost reduction, and other factors.

The fact that they are pricing the unit at 1450 is simply them saying they are more profitable for them to sell slowly, or sell at a lower price down the line, after mining BTC direct with the units in the meantime. You can't fault them for that.

Lastly, and perhaps the most important point to consider:  While I have no way of knowing what their actual profit margins are on these units, I have a feeling it's a fraction of the selling price. Consider their costs both fixed and variable; Fixed: Staff, Research and Development, Overhead (Rent, AC, Insurance, Interest, Technology), and then add the Variable costs:  Production cost per unit, materials, waste, shipping per unit, handling returns and repairs, etc.

So if on a 1450 unit (3.38BTC) their realized profit margin on X units sold at the end of the fiscal year is (Wildly guessing) $400, which is likely a higher number than they actually see, then what they are doing is making the right business move. Keep the unit for just 1 Month and mine .5 BTC and their unit margin for profit is now $612 provided they can still get $1450 point of sale for the unit.

Makes business sense to me. Can't fault them for that.

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