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[iCEBREAKER]

Afaics, the SuperNet needs to be better explained. Thus I can't comment constructively until I really understand all it, including the monetization and economics.

The is constructive criticism. I am not at-once trying to destroy it with my subjective opinions, yet I am also throwing caution at the point that I can't yet understand it all (at least the documents I read thus far).

For example, if Risto said he doesn't recommend investing in the SuperNet at this time, because he has not been able to ascertain all of the metrics of its design and intent. I would view that as open to the future of it, but constructively explaining what is lacking for even reaching a first decision, and without making any binding promises.

If latter Risto decided after understanding the design fully that James controls too much of the Unity tokens or what ever (hey I don't understand it so don't ask me to explain), he would present some economics analysis and inviting discussion. This open form of constructive criticism can not be viewed as turf battles if participants are very careful to state and differentiate opinion from facts.

If latter Risto didn't find any flaw in the design and economics, but doubted the ability of the developer(s) to deliver SuperNet, he could state that he will refrain from investing until he has ascertained that the developers have implemented the design as specified and gained market acceptance.

If you are going to lead pooled capital, politics unavoidably follows you.

Edit: the comments I saw from Risto about SuperNet seemed to imply maybe that he was judging the man, jl777, and not the design and economics. That is not going to be good politics. Even if there is a reason to believe a particular coder has weaknesses, we must win our logic on the merits if we want the political protection that open source organization offers, not on the subjective no matter how much more efficient the former might be.

Edit#2: jl777 has himself written he forms designs in some part from trial and error as he works through the implementation. So that could be viewed as a weakness or strength for example, but that is a subjective opinion. Thus not worth arguing about. The proof is in the pudding. I don't think there is any doubt about his rate of coding being quite high.

I'm to be among good company in being baffled by SuperNet.   

It sounds like a castle in the sky to me:

1) Baffle with BS; impress with reputation
2) collect lots of money
3) ? ? ?
4) profit
5) defeat fiat, our common enemy

I'd first like to see a test-supernet work with the testnets of its constituent coins before an actual hard launch.  That would demonstrate exactly WTF it actually does before expecting the public to buy in.

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[criptix]

Aeh is supernet monero dead yet? Can anyone summarize for me please? I missed the last 2 days

[iCEBREAKER]

The entire point of open source bazaars is they kickass on large cathedrals[1].

Open source is not just about source code being shared. It is a gift culture of sharing[2].

[1] http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/

[2] The Bibles about open source from Eric Raymond (the man who invented the term open source), specifically the Magic Cauldron.

Cathedrals and bazaars are mutually supportive, not antagonistic.  Each is well suited for its respective purposes in a positive-sum economy.

One interesting thing about the myth of Ceridwen's magic cauldron is its synchronicity with the peddler's iron cauldron in the stone soup fable.

http://www.nahee.com/spanky/www/fractint/stone_soup.html

(Fractint had an enormous influence on little iCEBREAKER, years before Raymond's allegedly seminal essays.   )

Even assuming the iron cauldron is an example of an Inverse Commons, I don't see how it logically supports the position that large cathedrals are mutual supportive of bazaars in sense that the larger and fewer they are the more supportative?

I do see how inverse commons can be shared by those cathedrals which are competing, e.g. IBM funding some open source project, but the more decentralized and finer grained those cathedrals, the faster will be the innovation.

Good call on identifying stone soup as the produce of an inverse commons.

I find 'large Cathedral' to be a redundant phrase.  A 'small Cathedral' is a church, just as a 'small bazaar' is a shop   

I guess you mean 'large' to indicate the 'too big' size where marginal return to growth turns negative and parasitic on its cohorts in the bazaar.

Unless the King interferes, the cathedral and bazaar compete for resources which are awarded by the market on the basis of merit.   Thus functions are divided (and granularity optimized) efficiently in a self-regulating manner dictated by consumer feedback.

EG, if the waiting list to get married in Las Vegas at St Bridget's is too long, people will go to the drive-through chapel instead.  If Harvard is too expensive, a family can enroll little Sally and Johnny in online classes, and so on.

[Este Nuno]

Aeh is supernet monero dead yet? Can anyone summarize for me please? I missed the last 2 days

Nothing of note seems to have happened outside BBR and XMR patching up some bugs in their code that seem to be unrelated to BCX.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Get ready for designer offspring too, e.g. we can already select the gender and eye color. Once the regulation falls away, the options will proliferate.

I look forward to this, I can't wait to see what an unrestrained market can achieve for humanities health issues.

[criptix]

Aeh is supernet monero dead yet? Can anyone summarize for me please? I missed the last 2 days

Nothing of note seems to have happened outside BBR and XMR patching up some bugs in their code that seem to be unrelated to BCX.

BCX - best comedy show in the world

[TheFascistMind]

Aeh is supernet monero dead yet? Can anyone summarize for me please? I missed the last 2 days

Nothing of note seems to have happened outside BBR and XMR patching up some bugs in their code that seem to be unrelated to BCX.

Would not have focused on the unmasking of the anonymity if he had not been for BCX asserting he could steal wallets. Unmasking the anonymity (if possible) reveals the i == s in the NIZKP of the one-time ring signature. So far apparently the mathematicians don't think this unlocks any vulnerability in the private keys.

Question is where did BCX get this idea about the private keys and relating it to the anonymity?

We are so smug but we should try to answer that question first.

Maybe this story is over, but I am not 100% confident yet. Apparently there is new decentralized checkpointing code in play, so maybe any rewinding of the block chain is now impossible.

[Este Nuno]

Aeh is supernet monero dead yet? Can anyone summarize for me please? I missed the last 2 days

Nothing of note seems to have happened outside BBR and XMR patching up some bugs in their code that seem to be unrelated to BCX.

Would not have focused on the unmasking of the anonymity if he had not been for BCX asserting he could steal wallets. Unmasking the anonymity (if possible) reveals the i == s in the NIZKP of the one-time ring signature. So far apparently the mathematicians don't think this unlocks any vulnerability in the private keys.

Question is where did BCX get this idea about the private keys and relating it to the anonymity?

We are so smug but we should try to answer that question first.

Maybe this story is over, but I am not 100% confident yet. Apparently there is new decentralized checkpointing code in play, so maybe any rewinding of the block chain is now impossible.

Yes, your own branch of the story here seems to have diverged and become it's own separate tale. It's quite possible that he was just guessing, he seems to have hinted at many different sorts of attacks so far.

[robinwilliams]

Yes, your own branch of the story here seems to have diverged and become it's own separate tale. It's quite possible that he was just guessing, he seems to have hinted at many different sorts of attacks so far.

i 100% believe bcx was gonna attack but it was obvious from the beginning he was using anonymintfacistmind guy.

bcx "i have an exploit i'm gonna steal everybody's coins" (gonna timewarp and dump on exchange)

facistmind "in theory maybe if you kissed the moons butt at the right time of the right day of the right year you could steal people minds"

bcx "he's the only one who knows anything ... he's getting close"

it's OBVIOUS bcx is a minerhashpowerbitcoin god.  but he's not a mathcryptoexpert.  he was using facistmind guy to scare the *bleep* out of everyone.

[Este Nuno]

Yes, your own branch of the story here seems to have diverged and become it's own separate tale. It's quite possible that he was just guessing, he seems to have hinted at many different sorts of attacks so far.

i 100% believe bcx was gonna attack but it was obvious from the beginning he was using anonymintfacistmind guy.

bcx "i have an exploit i'm gonna steal everybody's coins" (gonna timewarp and dump on exchange)

facistmind "in theory maybe if you kissed the moons butt at the right time of the right day of the right year you could steal people minds"

bcx "he's the only one who knows anything ... he's getting close"

it's OBVIOUS bcx is a minerhashpowerbitcoin god.  but he's not a mathcryptoexpert.  he was using facistmind guy to scare the *bleep* out of everyone.

Even so, it's probably done a lot of good for XMR to have all this thorough inspection. Even if AnonyMint's attack vectors don't work out, it's still good to have this level of in depth analysis going on.

If no attack materializes it looks like this overall situation will probably be a net benefit for XMR and BBR.

And if an attack materializes and is thwarted, it could be a huge benefit. We will have to wait and see.

[iCEBREAKER]

Question is where did BCX get this idea about the private keys and relating it to the anonymity?

We are so smug but we should try to answer that question first.

Maybe this story is over, but I am not 100% confident yet.

And who was behind the subtle, highly sophisticated Troll Transactions which accumulated in a Troll Block that forked the network?

Bytecoin and the Cryptonote Foundation?  Daleks?  The Master?  The Great Intelligence?  Orville Redenbacher and his Big Popcorn farmers syndicate?  Evil Satoshi from the goatee-Spock twin universe?

Could there be a connection?  Will they strike again?

Someone, or something, is playing a long game....and I fear we are mere pawns.... 

[siameze]

  Orville Redenbacher and his Big Popcorn farmers syndicate? 

I am convinced that you, Sir, have stumbled upon the answer.

[fivebells]

I am so excited about the collapse of the medical industry...

What leads you to believe the industry is collapsing?

Apologies for the derail; we can take it to PMs if you like.

[TheFascistMind]

robinwilliams, I guarantee you there is no connection between BCX and myself, even though he claims he was from the Philippines where I am currently living. I was worried at the start I would get dragged into some conspiracy theory.

That is why I am perplexed as to how he knew about what I found (after BCX incited me to dig). And no he didn't mention many vulnerabilities. He mentioned this specific one in conjunction with the TW attack which is necessary to rewind the blockchain to complete it.

He couldn't have guessed that. He had expert advice or insight himself.

And notice he never said the attack was taking place. He said TW attacks take days to develop, but he never said it was ongoing. Check his words carefully.

And he said from the beginning that forced evolution was the objective.

He achieved his objective, he knew the (potential) vulnerability, and he got paid with cheap coins and got revenge on Moneroman88. Perhaps he is sitting smug waiting for you all to figure it out.

But I think Moneroman88 was a sock puppet of BCX.

[robinwilliams]

robinwilliams, I guarantee you there is no connection between BCX and myself, even though he claims he was from the Philippines where I am currently living. I was worried at the start I would get dragged into some conspiracy theory.

That is why I am perplexed as to how he knew about what I found. And no he didn't mention many vulnerabilities. He mentioned this specific one in conjunction with the TW attack which is necessary to rewind the blockchain to complete it.

He couldn't have guessed that. He had expert advice or insight himself.

And notice he never said the attack was taking place. He said TW attacks take days to develop, but he never said it was ongoing. Check his words carefully.

And he said from the beginning that forced evolution was the objective.

He achieved his objective, he knew the vulnerability, and he got paid with cheap coins and got revenge on Moneroman88. Perhaps he is sitting smug waiting for you all to figure it out.

But I think Moneroman88 was a sock puppet of BCX.

i wasn't saying you were intentionally being used by him or that you are a sockpuppet or that you guys r in collusion.  just that he used your insight or fearmongering or whatever you want to call it to scare people and bolster the perception that he had some secret exploit & imo he never did

u r right.  coin is stronger - everybody wins (except the sleepy stressed devs probably)

[arielbit]

robinwilliams, I guarantee you there is no connection between BCX and myself, even though he claims he was from the Philippines where I am currently living. I was worried at the start I would get dragged into some conspiracy theory.

That is why I am perplexed as to how he knew about what I found. And no he didn't mention many vulnerabilities. He mentioned this specific one in conjunction with the TW attack which is necessary to rewind the blockchain to complete it.

He couldn't have guessed that. He had expert advice or insight himself.

And notice he never said the attack was taking place. He said TW attacks take days to develop, but he never said it was ongoing. Check his words carefully.

And he said from the beginning that forced evolution was the objective.

He achieved his objective, he knew the vulnerability, and he got paid with cheap coins and got revenge on Moneroman88. Perhaps he is sitting smug waiting for you all to figure it out.

But I think Moneroman88 was a sock puppet of BCX.

lol i'm surprised.. in the whole wide world my humble little country is involved in this monero fiasco

edit: with a 100 btc bounty, a name and address I could pay bcx a visit and drown him with popcorns  lol

[TheFascistMind]

I am so excited about the collapse of the medical industry...

What leads you to believe the industry is collapsing?

If we give everyone a 30 year mortgage, financial capacity demand for homes is pulled forward by 30 years. If we make everyone pay cash instead, houses would be incredibly less expensive. In short, the 30 mortgage becomes an inflation tax (and we charge you capital gains and property taxes on it). Insurance is no longer insurance, but rather another collective means to tax the population. Now it has become mandatory and it even they tax the insurance benefit.

The powers-that-be pocket all the profits. Innovation is stifled by the decreased degrees-of-freedom. Etc...

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/09/16/healthcare-peak/

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/09/16/polls-are-showing-pessimism-at-record-highs/

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/07/11/obamacare-may-seriously-impact-2016/

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/22/the-cadillac-tax-obama-will-all-your-benefits-as-part-of-obamacare/

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/10/01/what-socialism-destroyed-govt-shutdown/

[TheFascistMind]

lol i'm surprised.. in the whole wide world my humble little country is involved in this monero fiasco

Well we have PhilHealth now and your countrymen rejoice but it is same shit they did to us in the west that has destroyed us. Full implementation the Reproductive Health bill coming in November so they can turn your women into men-haters by screwing up their hormones with free handouts of birth control pills (filipinas in the provinces are too ashamed to go into the pharmacy to buy them).

Then you have the DAP scandal which is a ruse to get you naive pinoys to support abolishing your bank secrecy law so the powers-that-be can turn your country into another tax-debt-slavery system like we have in the west.

Then you have China+USA playing bad guy + good guy roles to force you to accede your sovereignty to the U.N..

Don't be surprised. You will soon join us in the globalization hell slavery. But I guess you guys are accustomed to it after 400 years of Spanish occupation.

Nation-building and "better the opportunities for our people" are code words for "bend over and prepare to take it deep".

I am just praying you guys continue to ignore the laws. Please do continue to make a U-turn from the right-most lane of the highway (right-hand traffic). Please continue to use the pedestrian flyovers for the homeless shelters and jaywalk with your face pointed away from oncoming traffic. Etc.    

[GreekBitcoin]

What does your friend tells about Greece? Any links?

[Dabs]

I'm in the Philippines too... nothing much to add to what TheFascistMind has said, but currently they aren't paying much attention to bitcoin or cryptocurrencies. That may change when one or any of the politicians suddenly discover they can hide their wealth there, and be discovered trying to do so.