http://www.pyramining.com/ - Discussion thread (no advertising here)

[bradyon]

Looks like somebody still thinks this project is worthy:

Total hashing power:   4.7TH/s

Complete reward:   ~ 87 months

I´d like to personally thank this to anybody who is contributing to keep this running, is almost all I can do. I already deposited almost all my coins during the ASIC implementation campaign and cannot afford to keep reinvesting.

THANKS to the people who do can.

Sincerely.

[1714137320]

1714137320

[1714137320]

1714137320

[pyra-proxy]

If pyramining were to enable a permanent deposit feature i.e. 30% or 40% or 50% or 60% or 70% of each deposit rolls up into a single deposit which never ages and keeps receiving its respective share of the hashing power for as long as pyramining is viable I think uptake of pyramining would increase and probably pretty nicely....  Personally I think 60-40 is a good split, and also only on *NEW* deposits, not back ported to old deposits.

Secondly, another feature would be a "buy-back" program of old pre-asic accounts.  How it might work:  Pyramining enables a deposit feature like his asic pre-order program with deposits of X.XXXX1111 whenever a new deposit is made in this fashion instead of buying new hardware it pays down a pre-asic account starting with the oldest accounts first.  This would help get ROI improved for everone since the really old deposits which are burdening pyramining is a significant part to blame for slow ROI.  It's a win-win as old deposits get ROI quicker and new deposits ROI time is improved by cleaning out the old deposits and if those feed into other accounts they also cause new hardware to be purchased(which is a win-win-win lol).  The key with this is that it has to be voluntary, not mandatory or it seems scam-ish

[ricciolone]

Question to pyramining!

do you have plan about new architecture 28 nm or less? I suppose in the next 6 months some one have it and your hw become surpassed! Other question... Total hashing power.... we need to improve it, 10% in a week is the minimum if we want to be competitive with the total hashing power increase... it is an hard balance between new hw and current!   

[rigel]

Secondly, another feature would be a "buy-back" program of old pre-asic accounts.  How it might work:  Pyramining enables a deposit feature like his asic pre-order program with deposits of X.XXXX1111 whenever a new deposit is made in this fashion instead of buying new hardware it pays down a pre-asic account starting with the oldest accounts first.  This would help get ROI improved for everone since the really old deposits which are burdening pyramining is a significant part to blame for slow ROI.  It's a win-win as old deposits get ROI quicker and new deposits ROI time is improved by cleaning out the old deposits and if those feed into other accounts they also cause new hardware to be purchased(which is a win-win-win lol).  The key with this is that it has to be voluntary, not mandatory or it seems scam-ish

I support this

[Akka]

Secondly, another feature would be a "buy-back" program of old pre-asic accounts.  How it might work:  Pyramining enables a deposit feature like his asic pre-order program with deposits of X.XXXX1111 whenever a new deposit is made in this fashion instead of buying new hardware it pays down a pre-asic account starting with the oldest accounts first.  This would help get ROI improved for everone since the really old deposits which are burdening pyramining is a significant part to blame for slow ROI.  It's a win-win as old deposits get ROI quicker and new deposits ROI time is improved by cleaning out the old deposits and if those feed into other accounts they also cause new hardware to be purchased(which is a win-win-win lol).  The key with this is that it has to be voluntary, not mandatory or it seems scam-ish

I support this

No, this brings nothing. When someone buys back an old account, the amount that still needs to be mined would increase by 10% of this buyback, while no new Hardware is added.

Example: When I deposit 100 BTC I expect to get 110 BTC back. If my 100 BTC are used to give them directly to old investors the overall amount that needs to be paid back increases by 10 BTC.

Also, this is called a ponzi.

[rdyoung]

The big jump in difficulty was not kind to our investment:

Investing in Pyramining is indeed very profitable: the complete reward is estimated to be reached in less than 96 months.

Things are looking bleak.

No it wasn't "kind".
But what can we do about it? Continuing to post how bad its looking does nothing.

All we can do is let pyramining do his thing. He has more invested than any single one of us. He has plenty of incentive to do what he can to keep things going.

Don't forget that as deposits and accounts are completed their hashrate gets split among the remaining deposits.

You don't understand, at the rate deposits are currently being completed it won't even make a difference.  The break even will just go up a bit slower.  And the higher the breakeven goes the worse the investment rate is which means the breakeven gets even worse.

I hope you understand.

Also, yes there was a big jump in difficulty.  But you also have to expect that there will be many more big jumps in difficulty in the future, so if new investments and deposits completing (deposits only complete if the breakeven + reward) isn't high enough then the break-even will go even higher.

I do understand more than can be demonstrated in a few words on a forum such as this.

You are correct, the breakeven time will keep increasing. However, at some point the difficulty rise will stabilize. It is a mathematical certainty. I have no idea how big the network must get before that happens, but it has to be sometime sooner than later, the network is at 2+Phs now. We were at 1Phs just 4 weeks ago. It will be twice as hard to get it to 4phs, 8phs, etc.
Although I am a bit curious how long until we are referring to the network in zetahashes...

[pyra-proxy]

Secondly, another feature would be a "buy-back" program of old pre-asic accounts.  How it might work:  Pyramining enables a deposit feature like his asic pre-order program with deposits of X.XXXX1111 whenever a new deposit is made in this fashion instead of buying new hardware it pays down a pre-asic account starting with the oldest accounts first.  This would help get ROI improved for everone since the really old deposits which are burdening pyramining is a significant part to blame for slow ROI.  It's a win-win as old deposits get ROI quicker and new deposits ROI time is improved by cleaning out the old deposits and if those feed into other accounts they also cause new hardware to be purchased(which is a win-win-win lol).  The key with this is that it has to be voluntary, not mandatory or it seems scam-ish

I support this

No, this brings nothing. When someone buys back an old account, the amount that still needs to be mined would increase by 10% of this buyback, while no new Hardware is added.

Example: When I deposit 100 BTC I expect to get 110 BTC back. If my 100 BTC are used to give them directly to old investors the overall amount that needs to be paid back increases by 10 BTC.

Also, this is called a ponzi.

Remember, A lot of people roll their earnings into upstream pyramining accounts, this program will likely hit several of those so your BTC still goes toward new hardware purchased.  Secondly, you are assuming 100% to a single account, but missing that you will potentially wipe out several accounts, some which could have disproportionately large bonus mining rates and Thirdly, the oldest accounts would tend to be closest to the end of the pyramining chain (a head node account for lack of a better word), cleaning them out gets other accounts closer to head node status.

I agree it would be a ponzi if this were mandatory and happened in secret, what I'm proposing is a voluntary system which clients of pyramining could choose to participate in this by definition isn't a ponzi.

[Akka]

Remember, A lot of people roll their earnings into upstream pyramining accounts, this program will likely hit several of those so your BTC still goes toward new hardware purchased.  Secondly, you are assuming 100% to a single account, but missing that you will potentially wipe out several accounts, some which could have disproportionately large bonus mining rates and Thirdly, the oldest accounts would tend to be closest to the end of the pyramining chain (a head node account for lack of a better word), cleaning them out gets other accounts closer to head node status.

I agree it would be a ponzi if this were mandatory and happened in secret, what I'm proposing is a voluntary system which clients of pyramining could choose to participate in this by definition isn't a ponzi.

All this changes nothing on the overall situation. Pyramining would still have 10% of this deposit more BTC to mine that added no new Hardware.

In the best case, where this would only hit redeposit accounts the same amount of Hashing Power than with a normal Deposit would be added, but now 2*10% would have been added as bonus. Still worsening the overall Situation.

Just assume Pyramining would still need to mine 1000 BTC (If a 1000 BTC account is at 99.5% it also only adds 5 BTC to this) for all accounts to be completed. If someone now deposits 100 BTC that are used to repay open accounts early. After this the overall amount that needs to be mined is 1010 BTC, while no new Hardware has been added.

Yay! For the people that got their account repaid early, but for all left the situation is now worse.

[rdyoung]

Remember, A lot of people roll their earnings into upstream pyramining accounts, this program will likely hit several of those so your BTC still goes toward new hardware purchased.  Secondly, you are assuming 100% to a single account, but missing that you will potentially wipe out several accounts, some which could have disproportionately large bonus mining rates and Thirdly, the oldest accounts would tend to be closest to the end of the pyramining chain (a head node account for lack of a better word), cleaning them out gets other accounts closer to head node status.

I agree it would be a ponzi if this were mandatory and happened in secret, what I'm proposing is a voluntary system which clients of pyramining could choose to participate in this by definition isn't a ponzi.

All this changes nothing on the overall situation. Pyramining would still have 10% of this deposit more BTC to mine that added no new Hardware.

In the best case, where this would only hit redeposit accounts the same amount of Hashing Power than with a normal Deposit would be added, but now 2*10% would have been added as bonus. Still worsening the overall Situation.

Just assume Pyramining would still need to mine 1000 BTC (If a 1000 BTC account is at 99.5% it also only adds 5 BTC to this) for all accounts to be completed. If someone now deposits 100 BTC that are used to repay open accounts early. After this the overall amount that needs to be mined is 1010 BTC, while no new Hardware has been added.

Yay! For the people that got their account repaid early, but for all left the situation is now worse.

Hear Hear...

What people arent realizing is that the way he has this designed, its better to just let the system work and pay off deposits. As pyramining has said, right now its lopsided with asic investors buying hardware for the older deposits who were invested in fpga, however, once the fpga deposits are finally paid off and the newest tech likely 28nm asics come online, then it will be the those deposits buying the hardware for those of us that preordered asics. So it will turn to an advantage for us "newer" investors just as it turned advantageous for the original fpga investors.

Hopefully sometime soon we will get a small break in difficulty jumps.

[Lincoln6Echo]

Does someone know some specs about the Pyramining-Asic?

[platti]

maybe it is a good idea to freeze the hashpower to all deposits on 265 MHs / BTC.
And all new deposits get the full asic hashpower. that would generate a lot more new deposits.

In the moment it makes no sense to pay 1  BTC for 265 MHs, when you get on CEX more than 7000 MHs/BTC (=30*pyramining)



 

[rdyoung]

maybe it is a good idea to freeze the hashpower to all deposits on 265 MHs / BTC.
And all new deposits get the full asic hashpower. that would generate a lot more new deposits.

In the moment it makes no sense to pay 1  BTC for 265 MHs, when you get on CEX more than 7000 MHs/BTC (=30*pyramining)

Actually it makes perfect sense, cause on CEX you are paying for the futures, in the future when the chips are delivered you are hoping 7000 MHs will be profitable.

NO. Trading GHS on cex is akin to buying dividend paying stocks. You start earning from the GHS as soon as you purchase. And can sell it at anytime.

You are betting the difficulty is going up but not too much. With pyramining you are getting 265 MHs right now and you are paying for someone to buy the mining equipment and set it up on behalf of you, two very different things

True.

However as I keep repeating, as deposits get paid off with pyramining our individual piece of the pie gets bigger.

Why are people so hell bent of fixing whats not broken with pyramining. If you didnt understand the way bitcoin mining and pyramining works when you invested, shame on you. You should have done your homework and made sure you knew what you were getting into.

All of these "attempts" to "fix" pyramining show the lack of understanding on the part of bitcoin mining.
It is not a get rich quick scheme. Even the companies that have invested millions in design and production of asics likely wont see a profit from mining until the difficulty evens out and the price goes higher.

By profit I mean expenses-income=profit

[miffman]

4 and a half months and my 0.04 BTC deposit is at 2.4% :l

[Nikolaj06]

4 and a half months and my 0.04 BTC deposit is at 2.4% :l

Be glad you've only invested 0.04... I'm stuck at 0.8 btc rewarded from a total of 37 deposited, in 3 months. Where 0.5 came within the first month. I'm not very optimistic about my decision right now. I also think that's why it has gotten so quiet lately, everyone has just given up..

[pyramining]

Hello everyone, I have been off for a couple of weeks.

In the few next days I will reply to all the PM/requests.

Difficulty is increasing at a huge rate, making everything look scary. For the future I have in mind two things:
- Working on next-gen ASICs: it's a huge work, even if it should be easier than the first time for some aspects, working at higher level of optimization increases complexity a lot.
- Partnering with another company: I am exploring if there is a way to make a deal/collaboration with one of the current ASIC manufacturers and split the workload.

I also have some personal funds that I want to invest into Pyramining. Actually I could buy ~2.5TH/s more, but I think it wouldn't make sense right now: we would add too little hashing power with current technology. What I have in mind is to wait for the 2nd gen ASICs to be available and invest with it, for the benefit of everyone. By that time I expect that difficulty will start to stabilize. I expect it would be around February 2014. I'd like to know your opinion about this.

[Lincoln6Echo]

@ pyramining:  How about a collaboration with Friedcat? He is in Gen 2 or Gen3 development right now. With his  Immersion Cooling project you can build more compact rigs and reduce the influence of thermal hotspots. Which Process is planned for next gen ?

[pyramining]

With his  Immersion Cooling project you can build more compact rigs and reduce the influence of thermal hotspots. Which Process is planned for next gen ?

I was already considering immersion cooling with 3M products, but for the current infrastructure it didn't give much benefits considered it's cost. Maybe with higher performance chips it may be worth it.

@ pyramining:  How about a collaboration with Friedcat? He is in Gen 2 or Gen3 development right now.

I will try to get in touch with him to see if he is available for partnering.

[symbot]

I also have some personal funds that I want to invest into Pyramining. Actually I could buy ~2.5TH/s more, but I think it wouldn't make sense right now: we would add too little hashing power with current technology. What I have in mind is to wait for the 2nd gen ASICs to be available and invest with it, for the benefit of everyone. By that time I expect that difficulty will start to stabilize. I expect it would be around February 2014. I'd like to know your opinion about this.

Good to have you back, and good to hear that you are fully committed to the project.  I agree that adding another 2.5TH/s doesn't make sense right now.  We need better, more efficient technology to get ahead of the curve a bit if we are going to be able to pay off past deposits.

Mining is getting a bad name as an investment right now, and I think the pace of difficulty increases will have to slow down eventually.  It might not happen soon, but I think the best strategy is to start investing in new tech when everyone else stops investing.

[klee]

KnC would be a good choice because they are based in EU like you...

[pyramining]

KnC would be a good choice because they are based in EU like you...

KnC could be an option, but not at the price they are selling right now. I already tried to establish a contact with them, and I have just been ignored. Let's wait until the market stabilizes and the various pre-orders will be served.