http://www.pyramining.com/ - Discussion thread (no advertising here)

[rdyoung]

So right now I'll ask the question.  Now with the (sort of) competitor, CEX.io, which one is more profitable?  I'm thinking about invest some of my bitcoins, about 5 - 10 in one of these sites, which one do you guys suggest?

If I had to choose today, I would go with cex.

[rdyoung]

So right now I'll ask the question.  Now with the (sort of) competitor, CEX.io, which one is more profitable?  I'm thinking about invest some of my bitcoins, about 5 - 10 in one of these sites, which one do you guys suggest?

These things are very different, one is investing in the company and using a system to get others to invest into it. The other is a trading future contracts on mining. It depends, obviously CEX.io can be more profitable but it is more work. Pyramining does all the hard work for you, you just get the profits. Both depend on the difficulty.

You can however automate the reinvestment. They have an api and someone already put up a piece of software that interfaces with the api. I have been using it without issue since he released the alpha.

[Monkey1]

Its not an either or question.  You can split the investment and hence split the risk that one doesn't work out.  There is still the risk that the price plummets or that BTC fails, but that is always going to be there with any BTC investment.

[Lincoln6Echo]

@pyramining: Have you got a fixed delivery date for new asic generation?

[rdyoung]

Its not an either or question.  You can split the investment and hence split the risk that one doesn't work out.  There is still the risk that the price plummets or that BTC fails, but that is always going to be there with any BTC investment.

At the moment, it is an either or.
They are not equal.
I fully support pyra, however when you look at the #s, cex is the better option.
I would suggest you put the money in cex, if/when pyraminings ghs/btc is equal to or lower than cex, I would suggest either cashing out of cex, or investing earnings from cex in pyra.

[rdyoung]

@pyramining: Have you got a fixed delivery date for new asic generation?

He said by the end of january. So hopefully everything will go smoothly and by early jan he will start bringing hardware online.

[pyra-proxy]

investing earnings from cex in pyra.

At this juncture for the time being that would be my recommendation if desire to invest in both places.

[rdyoung]

investing earnings from cex in pyra.

At this juncture for the time being that would be my recommendation if desire to invest in both places.

It is pointless to invest in both at this juncture. He has activated another queue for pyra deposits. With cex they will start earning the minute they buy ghs.
Looking at this situation as you would decide where to invest usd/eur/gbp etc, the smart move at the moment is cex.
However even the ghs at cex are over priced. It is a market afterall, I would buy some ghs now to start earning and put some buy orders in at .06 and lower. That way they start earning now and earn even more when it inevitably drops further.

[easyMony]

There is some way to leave the system/site with investment and profits?

Regards

[rdyoung]

There is some way to leave the system/site with investment and profits?

Regards

Pyra?
No, he converts all deposits to cash to buy hardware.
There is no withdrawal option.

[pyra-proxy]

investing earnings from cex in pyra.

At this juncture for the time being that would be my recommendation if desire to invest in both places.

It is pointless to invest in both at this juncture. He has activated another queue for pyra deposits. With cex they will start earning the minute they buy ghs.
Looking at this situation as you would decide where to invest usd/eur/gbp etc, the smart move at the moment is cex.
However even the ghs at cex are over priced. It is a market afterall, I would buy some ghs now to start earning and put some buy orders in at .06 and lower. That way they start earning now and earn even more when it inevitably drops further.

I was just agreeing that depositing initial investment to cex and rolling earnings into pyramining is the better option of dual investment if it was to be done.  However, with that said I don't honestly feel that cex is overpriced until cointerra starts delivering and even then I'd still expect cex to demand a higher premium which is worth it IMHO if nothing else due to the convenience it offers.  There is no other source of mining on the planet right now which is as convenient as cex, the ability to get in and out, buy and resell hash rate at or near purchase cost is worth a premium up front cost.  If you take that convenience out and only compare buying direct hash rate mining equipment or any other group hash rate investment that exists then sure it's "overpriced" but the value of that convenience significantly outweighs the cost of all other mining options out there (at least until cointerra starts delivering IMHO).

Taking a mining source like cex and rolling earned BTC into pyramining is IMHO the best form of duality because your initial investment is far more liquid and you can theoretically reach ROI on the initial investment when you cash out even if you roll 100% of your earnings into pyramining, thusly pyramining is just an investment of profits.

All that said and done, what still really needs to happen is to see where pyramining is going to take it's service in the future and any restructuring that may happen to help increase the value and ROI on existing and new deposits, so if picking only a single investment between the 2, I'd say hedge investments into cex until these things are announced and implemented.  IMHO, the #1 priority for pyramining is to provide partial permanent ownership (30/70, 50/50, 70/30 ... whatever of deposits funneled into a permanent never reduced deposit), and #2 confirm and roll out boosted hash rates for all accounts + get the GHs to $ rate much closer to cointerra's offering as soon as possible because while cex can charge a premium for convenience I don't feel pyramining can afford to do that for some time at least until ROI time is greatly reduced.

Outside of those fundamental concepts, making the whole system more efficient with fee reduction, reduced transaction bloat (operating expenses from unnecessary wallet transactions and wallet size, transaction fees, etc are impacted here), and the addition of merged mining (as a way to increase overall bitcoin return or IMHO the best option would be to reduce/eliminate pyramining fees all together by allowing pyramining to use merge mined income to cover expenses, profits and upgrades) and finally reconsider p2pool which while the technology is outstanding and a noble pursuit by all in bitcoin the pool has fallen largely out of favor and thus it's market share causes such high variance that all users/pools backed by it are experiencing massive consumer dissatisfaction, to continue supporting distributed mining pyramining might want to take a look at eliopool, the distributed pooling software backing eligius which has a much higher hash rate than p2pool and thus more favorable variance rates or sadly revert back to a more direct mining pool of which ghash.io ironically would be an ideal candidate now that they are offering merged mining proceeds, 0% fee and one of the lowest variance pools out there at the moment.

[rdyoung]

investing earnings from cex in pyra.

At this juncture for the time being that would be my recommendation if desire to invest in both places.

It is pointless to invest in both at this juncture. He has activated another queue for pyra deposits. With cex they will start earning the minute they buy ghs.
Looking at this situation as you would decide where to invest usd/eur/gbp etc, the smart move at the moment is cex.
However even the ghs at cex are over priced. It is a market afterall, I would buy some ghs now to start earning and put some buy orders in at .06 and lower. That way they start earning now and earn even more when it inevitably drops further.

I was just agreeing that depositing initial investment to cex and rolling earnings into pyramining is the better option of dual investment if it was to be done.  However, with that said I don't honestly feel that cex is overpriced until cointerra starts delivering and even then I'd still expect cex to demand a higher premium which is worth it IMHO if nothing else due to the convenience it offers.  There is no other source of mining on the planet right now which is as convenient as cex, the ability to get in and out, buy and resell hash rate at or near purchase cost is worth a premium up front cost.  If you take that convenience out and only compare buying direct hash rate mining equipment or any other group hash rate investment that exists then sure it's "overpriced" but the value of that convenience significantly outweighs the cost of all other mining options out there (at least until cointerra starts delivering IMHO).

Taking a mining source like cex and rolling earned BTC into pyramining is IMHO the best form of duality because your initial investment is far more liquid and you can theoretically reach ROI on the initial investment when you cash out even if you roll 100% of your earnings into pyramining, thusly pyramining is just an investment of profits.

All that said and done, what still really needs to happen is to see where pyramining is going to take it's service in the future and any restructuring that may happen to help increase the value and ROI on existing and new deposits, so if picking only a single investment between the 2, I'd say hedge investments into cex until these things are announced and implemented.  IMHO, the #1 priority for pyramining is to provide partial permanent ownership (30/70, 50/50, 70/30 ... whatever of deposits funneled into a permanent never reduced deposit), and #2 confirm and roll out boosted hash rates for all accounts + get the GHs to $ rate much closer to cointerra's offering as soon as possible because while cex can charge a premium for convenience I don't feel pyramining can afford to do that for some time at least until ROI time is greatly reduced.

Outside of those fundamental concepts, making the whole system more efficient with fee reduction, reduced transaction bloat (operating expenses from unnecessary wallet transactions and wallet size, transaction fees, etc are impacted here), and the addition of merged mining (as a way to increase overall bitcoin return or IMHO the best option would be to reduce/eliminate pyramining fees all together by allowing pyramining to use merge mined income to cover expenses, profits and upgrades) and finally reconsider p2pool which while the technology is outstanding and a noble pursuit by all in bitcoin the pool has fallen largely out of favor and thus it's market share causes such high variance that all users/pools backed by it are experiencing massive consumer dissatisfaction, to continue supporting distributed mining pyramining might want to take a look at eliopool, the distributed pooling software backing eligius which has a much higher hash rate than p2pool and thus more favorable variance rates or sadly revert back to a more direct mining pool of which ghash.io ironically would be an ideal candidate now that they are offering merged mining proceeds, 0% fee and one of the lowest variance pools out there at the moment.

I base cex being overpriced on time to produce a positive roi. I also run simulations on reinvestment @ different percentages and price points. I also base it on btc returned, not its conversion into fiat. @ at average difficulty increase of 25% and ghs priced where it is, it never returns a positive roi from mining.
Now that is obviously a close to worst case scenario, and it doesn't account for the inevitable leveling off of increase in difficulty.

Here is a spreadsheet I have been using.
I didn't create it, but it is sweet.
http://goo.gl/xrLswh

I do agree with you in splitting it between the two, but why would you lock money in pyra now, when you could get a return now from cex, and when the new hardware is brought online, then start bringing the money into pyra, I have no doubt that pyra will bring the ghs/btc lower than cex at some point. Cex is a market driven price, as long as the customer base keeps growing, the price will hold as more people get in.

[ptc4131]

Anyone tell me what happend with Pyramining??

I Deposit some BTC on 2013-11-16 13:21:01 UTC, but until now my deposit status "queued".

[artbatista]

New infrastructure:   ~ 21.7GH/s/BTC

@ 400$/btc thats 18.43$/GHS.

And his deliveries are GUARANTEED, He is not waiting in a preorder que with who knows how many other people in front of him with an unknown delivery window.

In other words, HE KNOWS that he will get hardware delivered and when that will be.

I invested again in September and he applied my new deposit at the OLD rate, despite having specifically said here (in this thread) that all new deposits would be at the ASIC rate.

I've been trying to get a reply from him for over 5 weeks now, still no response.

I would seriously think very, very hard before investing one Satoshi in Pyramining.

Art

To play devils advocate here.... You did get the "asic" rate.
The rate before asic implementation was 11mhs/btc
After asic it went to 222.89/btc

Pyramining did do a poor job of explaining things.
But as I have posted previously, we are subsidizing the fpga investors.
FPGA outweighs first round asics by 4/1. Thats why the rate is so low.
But as pyramining has posted this will turn to an advantage, as asics get cheaper and more efficient we will all see our rate increase.

The day I invested, the pyramining website said "new infrastructure: 2.5 GH per BTC"

When I previously invested (months ago) it was before ASIC and I got the same 268 MH per BTC I got after ASIC. I don't see how that can possibly be right.

Anyway, at this point, if pyramiding would take a moment to reply to my now months old attempt at reaching him I would accept any ruling he makes. I am just pissed now that I have utterly ignored.

Art

[rdyoung]

New infrastructure:   ~ 21.7GH/s/BTC

@ 400$/btc thats 18.43$/GHS.

And his deliveries are GUARANTEED, He is not waiting in a preorder que with who knows how many other people in front of him with an unknown delivery window.

In other words, HE KNOWS that he will get hardware delivered and when that will be.

I invested again in September and he applied my new deposit at the OLD rate, despite having specifically said here (in this thread) that all new deposits would be at the ASIC rate.

I've been trying to get a reply from him for over 5 weeks now, still no response.

I would seriously think very, very hard before investing one Satoshi in Pyramining.

Art

To play devils advocate here.... You did get the "asic" rate.
The rate before asic implementation was 11mhs/btc
After asic it went to 222.89/btc

Pyramining did do a poor job of explaining things.
But as I have posted previously, we are subsidizing the fpga investors.
FPGA outweighs first round asics by 4/1. Thats why the rate is so low.
But as pyramining has posted this will turn to an advantage, as asics get cheaper and more efficient we will all see our rate increase.

The day I invested, the pyramining website said "new infrastructure: 2.5 GH per BTC"

When I previously invested (months ago) it was before ASIC and I got the same 268 MH per BTC I got after ASIC. I don't see how that can possibly be right.

Anyway, at this point, if pyramiding would take a moment to reply to my now months old attempt at reaching him I would accept any ruling he makes. I am just pissed now that I have utterly ignored.

Art

Reread my last post. I have explained why we are getting the measly 2xxmhs instead of ghs per btc.
Your misinterpreting the #s on the site.
new infrastructure is the price/btc he is paying for new hardware. The current infrastructure is our individual piece of the pie.

Again. Current infrastructure was 11mhs before asic.

[rdyoung]

Anyone tell me what happend with Pyramining??

I Deposit some BTC on 2013-11-16 13:21:01 UTC, but until now my deposit status "queued".

He has more hardware on order so he is not activating any new deposits until the new hardware starts to arrive.

[Tittiez]

Anyone tell me what happend with Pyramining??

I Deposit some BTC on 2013-11-16 13:21:01 UTC, but until now my deposit status "queued".

Wait for new hardware to arrive. There isn't really money to be made right now anyway.

[birkomester]

IS this worth it?

[pyra-proxy]

IS this worth it?

This is not an easy answer right now.  Bitcoin ROI is slow at the moment, but with the BTC exchange rate going to the moon and back and back again and again, people here have seen their investment value in fiat also go to the moon.  If you're twitchy with your BTC in trading/selling it to fiat this service is very valuable treated as an "interest bearing savings account", but if you're looking for quick BTC ROI then there are many other options which are better at the moment.

[chenchunyu88]

you'll never get your BTC back if you don't refer people. it's not even buying any new hardware.