http://www.pyramining.com/ - Discussion thread (no advertising here)

[Squeaker]

Yes... it is still variance... and regardless of if you're on P2Pool, or a centralized pool, you're still going to be doing the same percentage of the hashpower for the whole network...

and yes... you're going ape-shit... the impression I have been getting from you this whole time is that you think the sky is falling, and you're running around like Chicken Little, in desperation, with only a limited understanding of what is actually happening around you. From the very first post I saw about you pushing to go to that pool.

How much has the total network hashpower gone up in the past 90 days that you referenced? And you're focusing so hard on an outlier, that may not even be an outlier now with today's network hashpower relative to our hash rate.

Also, much of that time on P2Pool, has been without Pyramining's hashpower included, as the mining hardware has been offline for a while. It is coming back online now, which will change things for P2Pool by a measurable degree.

Sorry, bud... but at no time during our back and forth, did I feel like we were having an "intelligent debate"... so that feeling was, unfortunately, one-sided on your part.

I'll end my participation on this particular topic, here.

Have a good weekend.

=squeak=

[rdyoung]

Yes... it is still variance... and regardless of if you're on P2Pool, or a centralized pool, you're still going to be doing the same percentage of the hashpower for the whole network...

and yes... you're going ape-shit... the impression I have been getting from you this whole time is that you think the sky is falling, and you're running around like Chicken Little, in desperation, with only a limited understanding of what is actually happening around you. From the very first post I saw about you pushing to go to that pool.

How much has the total network hashpower gone up in the past 90 days that you referenced? And you're focusing so hard on an outlier, that may not even be an outlier now with today's network hashpower relative to our hash rate.

Also, much of that time on P2Pool, has been without Pyramining's hashpower included, as the mining hardware has been offline for a while. It is coming back online now, which will change things for P2Pool by a measurable degree.

Sorry, bud... but at no time during our back and forth, did I feel like we were having an "intelligent debate"... so that feeling was, unfortunately, one-sided on your part.

I'll end my participation on this particular topic, here.

Have a good weekend.

=squeak=

What this all comes down to is the simple fact that you are ok with a payout every few days and growing as the difficulty increases.
Would you be ok with a payout every 7 days? How about once every 2 weeks?
I am not ok with that, having that much time between payouts slows down compounding.
I am invested in several other cloud mines that payout once a week, thats fine. But with this p2pool node the time between blocks and therefore payouts is increasing at a very rapid pace.
You will never convince me to be ok with a payout at an unknown and growing interval.

I was arguing, and your words backed me up, that the intervals between blocks are getting longer. How long until the outlier is 7 days? How long until its 14? This is what bothers me, I am for supporting p2pool, and don't you dare attempt to assume what I do and don't know. You obviously can't comprehend my point about technical analysis and because of that you assume that I have no idea how mining works. You are so full of yourself its not funny.

Here is how our discussion actually went.

ME: I prefer apples over oranges
You: Oranges are fruit too, if you dont like oranges man up and deal with it.
ME: Oranges are too acidic for me
You: Oranges are acidic, just deal with it.

[coinnewbit]

woah squeaker and rd it looks like you guys have some things to sort out, but could someone give me ( nd many others who invested far more than me) an expanation why pyra is only intermittently updating? He could just post something here to reassure us 

[rdyoung]

woah squeaker and rd it looks like you guys have some things to sort out, but could someone give me ( nd many others who invested far more than me) an expanation why pyra is only intermittently updating? He could just post something here to reassure us 

Nothing to work out.
I am arguing that the intervals between payouts is getting longer because p2pool.info's relative size to the network while he keeps screaming variance and deal with it. Thats how a toddler has a debate, not an educated, intelligent adult.

As for pyramining, he is known for his lack of communication skills but as gektek said, while pyra is notoriously quite while he is working he always comes through on what he says.

[matthewh3]

I'm all for staying with P2Pool to help decentralisation.  If you mine 24/7/365 then the variance will even its self out. 

[rdyoung]

I'm all for staying with P2Pool to help decentralisation.  If you mine 24/7/365 then the variance will even its self out.  

I am too, my concern is the size of this node. If there is another larger node that would give us faster block times I am fine with moving.
Again, its the ever increasing average time between blocks here that has me concerned.

Take a look at p2pool.info/luck we have been less than 100% as compared to the rest of the network since the end of january, this node is mining less btc than expected. How is this not concerning to anyone but me.
Can anyone else that knows how to read charts chime in here?

[Krak]

I'm all for staying with P2Pool to help decentralisation.  If you mine 24/7/365 then the variance will even its self out.  

I am too, my concern is the size of this node. If there is another larger node that would give us faster block times I am fine with moving.
Again, its the ever increasing average time between blocks here that has me concerned.

Take a look at p2pool.info/luck we have been less than 100% as compared to the rest of the network since the end of january, this node is mining less btc than expected. How is this not concerning to anyone but me.
Can anyone else that knows how to read charts chime in here?

Node size doesn't matter. Every node connects to each other and comes up with the combined hashrate displayed on p2pool.info. If any of them find a block, they all split the reward. P2pool.info itself has no miners on it, it's just a site for displaying statistics from the p2pool network.

No, variance is not worth worrying about because it can go either way at any time. There's no way of predicting it with any pool.

[rdyoung]

I'm all for staying with P2Pool to help decentralisation.  If you mine 24/7/365 then the variance will even its self out.  

I am too, my concern is the size of this node. If there is another larger node that would give us faster block times I am fine with moving.
Again, its the ever increasing average time between blocks here that has me concerned.

Take a look at p2pool.info/luck we have been less than 100% as compared to the rest of the network since the end of january, this node is mining less btc than expected. How is this not concerning to anyone but me.
Can anyone else that knows how to read charts chime in here?

Node size doesn't matter. Every node connects to each other and comes up with the combined hashrate displayed on p2pool.info. If any of them find a block, they all split the reward. P2pool.info itself has no miners on it, it's just a site for displaying statistics from the p2pool network.

No, variance is not worth worrying about because it can go either way at any time. There's no way of predicting it with any pool.

So your telling me that the entire p2pool network is only hovering around 200ths? That is extremely hard to believe.
According to blockchain.info/pools p2pool accounts for 1% of the network, currently is around .5% so where is the remaining .5%?
Does blockchain only show 1%+ or is there something else going on here.

[Krak]

So your telling me that the entire p2pool network is only hovering around 200ths? That is extremely hard to believe.
According to blockchain.info/pools p2pool accounts for 1% of the network, currently is around .5% so where is the remaining .5%?
Does blockchain only show 1%+ or is there something else going on here.

Blockchain.info is notoriously unreliable for displaying block origins so I wouldn't base anything off of that. And yes, the hashrate displayed on p2pool.info is the entire BTC p2pool network or at least the ones running a new enough version to connect to the rest of the network.

[Squeaker]

I'm all for staying with P2Pool to help decentralisation.  If you mine 24/7/365 then the variance will even its self out. 

Which was my entire argument.

=squeak=

[Squeaker]

So your telling me that the entire p2pool network is only hovering around 200ths? That is extremely hard to believe.
According to blockchain.info/pools p2pool accounts for 1% of the network, currently is around .5% so where is the remaining .5%?
Does blockchain only show 1%+ or is there something else going on here.

Blockchain.info is notoriously unreliable for displaying block origins so I wouldn't base anything off of that. And yes, the hashrate displayed on p2pool.info is the entire BTC p2pool network or at least the ones running a new enough version to connect to the rest of the network.

And, there are some other P2Pool BTC 'networks' operating too... usually privately between friends... p2pool.info probably won't show them, as they aren't linking up with the primary network, while blockchain doesn't distinguish which p2pool nodes are connected to each other. It only considers, that the block was found by a p2pool node.

=squeak=

[Monkey1]

Getting back on track, I support a move to one, or several large pools to reduce variance.  I am aware of how variance works, but at this stage in the game, I would prefer regular payments rather than the possibility of 1 per week.

Also, a quick question for Pyramining.  I have several chained accounts.  The top two accounts are chained, with nothing above the top one.  I deposited exactly the same into each account and this was held for new hardware.  Now both accounts have been activated and both have the same allocated hashrate?  Surely the top account should have more as it should have a percentage (either 15% or whatever has been implemented for new deposits) from the account below and the second account should have less (due to giving up 15% or whatever to the account above)?

When you previously stated that things would not change for old accounts and the rules would be published before being enacted, I assumed that the % hashrate being passed up would continue.  Is this not the case?

[rdyoung]

Getting back on track, I support a move to one, or several large pools to reduce variance.  I am aware of how variance works, but at this stage in the game, I would prefer regular payments rather than the possibility of 1 per week.

Also, a quick question for Pyramining.  I have several chained accounts.  The top two accounts are chained, with nothing above the top one.  I deposited exactly the same into each account and this was held for new hardware.  Now both accounts have been activated and both have the same allocated hashrate?  Surely the top account should have more as it should have a percentage (either 15% or whatever has been implemented for new deposits) from the account below and the second account should have less (due to giving up 15% or whatever to the account above)?

When you previously stated that things would not change for old accounts and the rules would be published before being enacted, I assumed that the % hashrate being passed up would continue.  Is this not the case?

Thank you, someone else who understands where I am coming from. I would rather give up the theorized extra BTC from p2pool to gain stability and daily if not more often payouts. Here is my thought, leave say 10ths with p2pool and split the rest between eligius, ghash and find another pool that could benefit from the hashpower boost. I add ghash because they are now only 25% of the network plus they merge nmc/dvc/ixc, if and when they get closer to 50% I would support leaving them for awhile till they drop again.

As I understand it, the bonus hashrate is not added to the account, its from the earnings from the account below.

[inaltoasinistra]

If he uses gbt (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getblocktemplate) is possible to use Eligius but keep the mining power in hand of Mr Pyramining

[rdyoung]

If he uses gbt (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getblocktemplate) is possible to use Eligius but keep the mining power in hand of Mr Pyramining

This is very nice and basically removes the need for p2pool.

[Monkey1]

so any update?

[rdyoung]

Yet another 4day 9 hour round and no block found.

How this kind of spacing between blocks/payouts is ok with anyone is beyond me.
Pyramining: Can we please move a different pool/s????
Leave some with p2pool and move the rest to eligius, ghash etc.

On the 26th of march you posted that payouts could start in a few days, that was 2 weeks ago and p2pool has found 8 blocks since then.
Something has to change. P2pool has been earning 87.9% of the btc we would have earned on another standard pool.
Please do something about this.

[seventie]

we need another pool
no p2pool.
please do something so we get our btc

[coinnewbit]

please pyramining change to other pools

[Squeaker]

:facepalms: