BitForce SC - full custom ASIC

[fuuka]

With that trade-in offer I suspect that this thing will be *very* expensive, although I hope they can do something along the lines of the singles vs. mini-rig for a product lineup.

Of course all the little guys like me can just sell their singles to the highest bidder (for them to trade in)  

[Cablez]

I am supremely interested.  

I do wonder though if having an inflexible mining appliance is really that wise.  Couldn't necessary changes to the Bitcoin code render these pretty useless?  It's not like any of us can see the future.

[rjk]

Fuck NDAs, and fuck proprietary technologies. I'm proud to be supporting the first and only open-source ASIC creation spearheaded by Jason et al.

[ice_chill]

I am supremely interested. 

I do wonder though if having an inflexible mining appliance is really that wise.  Couldn't necessary changes to the Bitcoin code render these pretty useless?  It's not like any of us can see the future.

I thought Bitcoin code was fixed and public ? only the wallet changed ?

Also I wonder what they will do with the trade in equipment ? resell it ? then it would mean the SuperComputer is expensive enough to make it all worth while?

Also "Silent operation" in description, possibly water block used ?

[1l1l11ll1l]

I don't get the hostility towards BFL, especially calling is a scam all the time.

They had a concept, with calculated hash power, they pre sold it. The prototypes underperformed initial estimations, the told us, they lowered the price and refunded the higher price I paid.

That's natural progression, not a scam.

I reordered, it took longer than expected, but my additional units arrived. How is this a scam?

I've definitely enjoyed working with BFL, and will continue to be a customer. There's been plenty of bumps, but in the end, they've been delivering. That's not a scam.

[bitfury]

I don't get the hostility towards BFL, especially calling is a scam all the time.

They had a concept, with calculated hash power, they pre sold it. The prototypes underperformed initial estimations, the told us, they lowered the price and refunded the higher price I paid.

That's natural progression, not a scam.

I reordered, it took longer than expected, but my additional units arrived. How is this a scam?

I've definitely enjoyed working with BFL, and will continue to be a customer. There's been plenty of bumps, but in the end, they've been delivering. That's not a scam.

That is not plausible definition.... By logics you apply, then

http://i-mmm.com/en/index.php

is not SCAM either..... Because Sergey Mavrody pyramid pays everyone, paid out about $15 billion USD and still paying.... but often changes rules, but silll paying...

And because it pays, it is natural progression, and so one should invest there ? ;-)

Actually that scares even more than ASIC etc... That there's so many people bringing to Mavrody System cash :-)))))
Probably more than transacted in overall bitcoin history :-))) (not cap. but _transacted_, i.e. turnover)...

You can ask guy with nick 'pent' here :-)))))) He's now one of them :-))) However I thought he would NEVER join that system for example :-))))

[bitfury]

I am supremely interested. 

I do wonder though if having an inflexible mining appliance is really that wise.  Couldn't necessary changes to the Bitcoin code render these pretty useless?  It's not like any of us can see the future.

I thought Bitcoin code was fixed and public ? only the wallet changed ?

Also I wonder what they will do with the trade in equipment ? resell it ? then it would mean the SuperComputer is expensive enough to make it all worth while?

Well. Of course it is pretty possible to change BitCoin code. Writing exactly

if (height > NNNNNN) use_SHA512 else use_SHA256, trimming block chain.

And asking people to update clients....

BitCoin were built for people, not for miners to mine coins... And not for ill-gotten miners who would try to attack network. And of course people can change things, if current things are not OK for them.... These are not for machines, because there's always SOMEONE who pays, SOMEONE who receive payment.... payment processing system is just medium... If that medium will be screwed by ASIC - then users would simply switch to another one. This could be painful switch indeed. However most will be lost by these greedy people, who just buy and hold.... But greedy always loose eventually... In things like i-mmm.com ... Or getting robbed during revolutions, etc etc :-) Don't be greed, be useful :-)

[Fuzzy]

Interesting, but you must admit, it is a little weird to announce a new technology when you sill haven't filled a single MiniRig order yet.

Props for the buy-back/trade-in option tho 

[BFL]

Ngzhang said your specs were unrealistic. Shockingly he was right! You were 400% off on power.

Goat, you're a reckless troll with bad memory.

Posted by Ngzhang on: November 18, 2011, 10:00:58 AM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=38132;sa=showPosts;start=290

"sorry, i do think BFL are scamers. so i never regard BFL as competitors."  -  Ngzhang

[bitfury]

Interesting, but you must admit, it is a little weird to announce a new technology when you sill haven't filled a single MiniRig order yet.

Props for the buy-back/trade-in option tho 

They will work now truly hard to make Mini-Rig work like specified in specs... Not like it was with 20W/1Gh.... And probably would put more effort in cooling etc. (no fancy fans there)... I think you could be proud of them, when they will release it finally! And I am glad to be the one who pushed this. I love professional people and who are willing to work hard. Delivering 20 Gh/s / 2.5 kW instead of 25 Gh/s / 1.25 kW would not pass now, as there's competition and there's experience - so BFL can't go to public and tell: "oops, we did it again". So their buyers could say thank us as well for doing that.

[yjacket]

Interesting, but you must admit, it is a little weird to announce a new technology when you sill haven't filled a single MiniRig order yet.

Props for the buy-back/trade-in option tho 

They will work now truly hard to make Mini-Rig work like specified in specs... Not like it was with 20W/1Gh.... And probably would put more effort in cooling etc. (no fancy fans there)... I think you could be proud of them, when they will release it finally! And I am glad to be the one who pushed this. I love professional people and who are willing to work hard. Delivering 20 Gh/s / 2.5 kW instead of 25 Gh/s / 1.25 kW would not pass now, as there's competition and there's experience - so BFL can't go to public and tell: "oops, we did it again". So their buyers could say thank us as well for doing that.

I think you are overestimating what you personally have done.

On a side note, it amazes me that people are still hating on BFL. They made a unique design and have spent a tremendous amount of effort on it. I don't know if it's jealousy or w/e, but this is just silly. BFL has been proven to be a good faith actor in their endeavors and I appreciate what they have done for mining. The amount of hate they receive would really make a similar group of people reluctant to try and do business in this environment. That would be a loss for Bitcoin. Please think about that. It's not easy to design, sell, and support a product to a very heterogeneous group, especially as a startup. Please consider that.

[allinvain]

I suppose there is no chance of giving us a clue as to what this new ASIC based Single will cost?

[cyberlync]

following

[Epoch]

Interesting, but you must admit, it is a little weird to announce a new technology when you sill haven't filled a single MiniRig order yet.
Props for the buy-back/trade-in option tho  

They will work now truly hard to make Mini-Rig work like specified in specs... Not like it was with 20W/1Gh.... And probably would put more effort in cooling etc. (no fancy fans there)... I think you could be proud of them, when they will release it finally! And I am glad to be the one who pushed this. I love professional people and who are willing to work hard. Delivering 20 Gh/s / 2.5 kW instead of 25 Gh/s / 1.25 kW would not pass now, as there's competition and there's experience - so BFL can't go to public and tell: "oops, we did it again". So their buyers could say thank us as well for doing that.

Bitfury, your first post on the forums was 4 days ago, on the 23rd; what do you think you have done in those 4 days for BFL customers to 'thank' you for? Rhetorical question.

Let's keep the name-calling and posturing and hate minimized here, ok? We've all been wading through endless streams of BFL-hate since October. It's gotten pretty old. BFL has been shipping a good product and has indicated a 100% buyback program for their existing customers should they choose to migrate to the new SC technology.

I find their stance laudable. If there is anyone to 'thank' here, it is BFL.

[bitfury]

2 Epoch:

Simply - it took 4 days for BFL to evaluate that these Spartans seems to be competition. Don't you agree that with all current offers there's no price-wise competition to BFL ? We've got real about 200 gigahashes in prices less than currently mini-rig's promoted... Isn't it small breakthrough for these Spartans ?

Now show benefit for BFL buyers: BFL would work harder to give what they promised, because if they won't - there will be no excuse.....

Interesting, but you must admit, it is a little weird to announce a new technology when you sill haven't filled a single MiniRig order yet.

Props for the buy-back/trade-in option tho 

They will work now truly hard to make Mini-Rig work like specified in specs... Not like it was with 20W/1Gh.... And probably would put more effort in cooling etc. (no fancy fans there)... I think you could be proud of them, when they will release it finally! And I am glad to be the one who pushed this. I love professional people and who are willing to work hard. Delivering 20 Gh/s / 2.5 kW instead of 25 Gh/s / 1.25 kW would not pass now, as there's competition and there's experience - so BFL can't go to public and tell: "oops, we did it again". So their buyers could say thank us as well for doing that.

I think you are overestimating what you personally have done.

Then do it. Only time will tell. I wonder why nobody else did it before ? Probably because they did it with their
hobby time, not full time... Probably something else... Probably not many developers at all started this... But this is going
to be bigger... I suppose that with 28-nm pressure will be even higher !!!

And basically when there's no competition - you can do with your customers whatever you want... It is bad... It is so bad, that
to make mining farm we had to start basically from scratch... Because one guys offer 1 Gh/s for 20 W, other guys sells overpriced slow Spartans, another guys sells overpriced videocards....

On a side note, it amazes me that people are still hating on BFL. They made a unique design and have spent a tremendous amount of effort on it. I don't know if it's jealousy or w/e, but this is just silly. BFL has been proven to be a good faith actor in their endeavors and I appreciate what they have done for mining.

Can you quote any numbers ? In some verifiable way ? How many gigahashes they added to mining ? I suppose that would be nice stats on their web site "We added XXX Gh/s miners". That works... Not that in "project"...

The amount of hate they receive would really make a similar group of people reluctant to try and do business in this environment. That would be a loss for Bitcoin. Please think about that. It's not easy to design, sell, and support a product to a very heterogeneous group, especially as a startup. Please consider that.

Well. It's not personal hate... It's reaction to "ANNOUNCE FIRST, THEN DO"... Microsoft-way by the way... :-)))))) How many here loves Microsoft ? ;-) And how many uses ? ;-) They first tell everyone that their OS will be best, and then it crashes on presentation :-))))))))) I don't argue that such business model is alive, GREEDY AND PROFITABLE... But I personally hate such behavior, and many do either...

Is single prototype board costs too much ? You say they invested vast amount of time into it... Why then such epic !@#$ like 1 Gh/s for 20 W ? This is measurable on single prototype board... We're not talking about $15k device....

This gives clue, that they first wanted to see if there will be demand, and only then implement product... Isn't it ?

BY THE WAY, another interesting question - DOES BFL MINING WITH THEIR OWN EQUIPMENT

[tgmarks]

One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

[wildemagic]

One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD <grins>

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

[DILLIGAF]

I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready

Only way to get that pre-order money rolling in..

[seriouscoin]

I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready

Only way to get that pre-order money rolling in..

True that, and ppl still support such business tactics is beyond me

[DiabloD3]

Okay guys, angry neighborhood bastard mod here.

Tone down the trolling. Neither BitFury nor BFL have launched their respective competing products, and I think SC might give BitFury's extra optimized Spartan 6 rigs a run for their money. Also, as the founder of the Diablo Mining Company, I am looking at both projects in interest. We need competition for mining hardware, and you two right now are each others competition. Whoever makes it past 2mh/$ first doesn't win (but doesn't lose either).