Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker

[adamstgBit]

you might say i have a funny way to hedge.. but if i win the bet i will get 3BTC +  buy back below 15 maybe even below 10 fuck that would be sweet  

[oakpacific]

you might say i have a funny way to hedge.. but if i win the bet i will get 3BTC +  buy back below 15 maybe even below 10 fuck that would be sweet  

But once you start making correct predictions, people would not go easy on you anymore.

BTW：I don't think this is hedge.

[adamstgBit]

you might say i have a funny way to hedge.. but if i win the bet i will get 3BTC +  buy back below 15 maybe even below 10 fuck that would be sweet  

But once you start making correct predictions, people would not go easy on you anymore.

even a broken watch is right some of the time, i think ill win this bet...

[sublime5447]

I'm just pissed off because i sold on BOTH bear traps....

Why would you be pissed? Who cares you made good moves in my opinion. It might edge higher but what do you care you hedged against system failure. If you bought in at 5, 13, 17 and sold off at 22 you made a good call. It was a hell of a dip followed by hell of a bounce. Everyone should know that this is not the price. I sell coins to the public. I talk to almost every person I come in contact with about BTC not one person has said they have heard of it before. I have handed out around 300 business cards and explained what it is and what it is used for, not one person bought BTC from that. We I first started selling BTC on ebay the price was 13.5 or so and i had a lot of customers come on board the week before it started this run up sales had been slow.

As for btc being useful, what a crook of shit. There is no market for btc or availability. Who in their right mind believes people are out there using bitcoin as a convenience? Who thinks that it is end users who are driving up the price? Adam is 100% correct when he says it is the little fish that make the market, because in the end all that matters is if people like it and use it. So let sum it up.. people cant get it, dont know what it is, dont know why you would need it, think that is a scam, think that it is pyramid scheme, and the only people after it are customers on the SR and greedy assholes.    

I can never figure out why would people who claim they simply do not believe Bitcoin would have a future stay in this forum and waste their time here in the first place, are there not enough forums on the internet, or is it the old shit spouted by people like Nagle, that they simply could not sit back watching people losing their money without giving their advice?

You have it all wrong I love btc. Check out my stores on facebook bitcoin friends and litecoin friends. I have lost sleep thinking about a world were the money power was returned to the people. That is why I am hating right now. Because of the experiences I have had on OTC and dealing with scammers (about 5 a day) between ebay and facebook. I believe in the idea, to me it is all about changing the world, that's why I bitch and complain, about speculators, scammers, hoarders, and douches. Because ever third of forth customer tells me how they were scammed or how someone tired to scam them. They get to me a lot of times and are mad and disgusted and say I just need this one fucking coin and them I am done with BTC. So, know I am a believer in the idea and hate seeing you guys ruin it.   

[Crypt_Current]

you might say i have a funny way to hedge.. but if i win the bet i will get 3BTC +  buy back below 15 maybe even below 10 fuck that would be sweet  

But once you start making correct predictions, people would not go easy on you anymore.

even a broken watch is right some of the time, i think ill win this bet...

& the more often the watch is looked at, the more chances it has to be correct!  

[Crypt_Current]

I'm just pissed off because i sold on BOTH bear traps....

Why would you be pissed? Who cares you made good moves in my opinion. It might edge higher but what do you care you hedged against system failure. If you bought in at 5, 13, 17 and sold off at 22 you made a good call. It was a hell of a dip followed by hell of a bounce. Everyone should know that this is not the price. I sell coins to the public. I talk to almost every person I come in contact with about BTC not one person has said they have heard of it before. I have handed out around 300 business cards and explained what it is and what it is used for, not one person bought BTC from that. We I first started selling BTC on ebay the price was 13.5 or so and i had a lot of customers come on board the week before it started this run up sales had been slow.

As for btc being useful, what a crook of shit. There is no market for btc or availability. Who in their right mind believes people are out there using bitcoin as a convenience? Who thinks that it is end users who are driving up the price? Adam is 100% correct when he says it is the little fish that make the market, because in the end all that matters is if people like it and use it. So let sum it up.. people cant get it, dont know what it is, dont know why you would need it, think that is a scam, think that it is pyramid scheme, and the only people after it are customers on the SR and greedy assholes.    

I can never figure out why would people who claim they simply do not believe Bitcoin would have a future stay in this forum and waste their time here in the first place, are there not enough forums on the internet, or is it the old shit spouted by people like Nagle, that they simply could not sit back watching people losing their money without giving their advice?

You have it all wrong I love btc. Check out my stores on facebook bitcoin friends and litecoin friends. I have lost sleep thinking about a world were the money power was returned to the people. That is why I am hating right now. Because of the experiences I have had on OTC and dealing with scammers (about 5 a day) between ebay and facebook. I believe in the idea, to me it is all about changing the world, that's why I bitch and complain, about speculators, scammers, hoarders, and douches. Because ever third of forth customer tells me how they were scammed or how someone tired to scam them. They get to me a lot of times and are mad and disgusted and say I just need this one fucking coin and them I am done with BTC. So, know I am a believer in the idea and hate seeing you guys ruin it.   

"you guys"?
speculator != scammer, at least not always ... 

[oakpacific]

I'm just pissed off because i sold on BOTH bear traps....

Why would you be pissed? Who cares you made good moves in my opinion. It might edge higher but what do you care you hedged against system failure. If you bought in at 5, 13, 17 and sold off at 22 you made a good call. It was a hell of a dip followed by hell of a bounce. Everyone should know that this is not the price. I sell coins to the public. I talk to almost every person I come in contact with about BTC not one person has said they have heard of it before. I have handed out around 300 business cards and explained what it is and what it is used for, not one person bought BTC from that. We I first started selling BTC on ebay the price was 13.5 or so and i had a lot of customers come on board the week before it started this run up sales had been slow.

As for btc being useful, what a crook of shit. There is no market for btc or availability. Who in their right mind believes people are out there using bitcoin as a convenience? Who thinks that it is end users who are driving up the price? Adam is 100% correct when he says it is the little fish that make the market, because in the end all that matters is if people like it and use it. So let sum it up.. people cant get it, dont know what it is, dont know why you would need it, think that is a scam, think that it is pyramid scheme, and the only people after it are customers on the SR and greedy assholes.    

I can never figure out why would people who claim they simply do not believe Bitcoin would have a future stay in this forum and waste their time here in the first place, are there not enough forums on the internet, or is it the old shit spouted by people like Nagle, that they simply could not sit back watching people losing their money without giving their advice?

You have it all wrong I love btc. Check out my stores on facebook bitcoin friends and litecoin friends. I have lost sleep thinking about a world were the money power was returned to the people. That is why I am hating right now. Because of the experiences I have had on OTC and dealing with scammers (about 5 a day) between ebay and facebook. I believe in the idea, to me it is all about changing the world, that's why I bitch and complain, about speculators, scammers, hoarders, and douches. Because ever third of forth customer tells me how they were scammed or how someone tired to scam them. They get to me a lot of times and are mad and disgusted and say I just need this one fucking coin and them I am done with BTC. So, know I am a believer in the idea and hate seeing you guys ruin it.   

Pfft, and I know it's far easier to be contacted by scammers on the internet(those who have never received a Nigerian 419 letter are free to raise your hands, not to say in the real world you can never spoof a real store checkout counter) than in the offline world, so doing business on the internet must have been ruined as well, Jesus.

And yeah, you listed hoarders and speculators along with scammers, I don't even know what to say.

[sublime5447]

I'm just pissed off because i sold on BOTH bear traps....

Why would you be pissed? Who cares you made good moves in my opinion. It might edge higher but what do you care you hedged against system failure. If you bought in at 5, 13, 17 and sold off at 22 you made a good call. It was a hell of a dip followed by hell of a bounce. Everyone should know that this is not the price. I sell coins to the public. I talk to almost every person I come in contact with about BTC not one person has said they have heard of it before. I have handed out around 300 business cards and explained what it is and what it is used for, not one person bought BTC from that. We I first started selling BTC on ebay the price was 13.5 or so and i had a lot of customers come on board the week before it started this run up sales had been slow.

As for btc being useful, what a crook of shit. There is no market for btc or availability. Who in their right mind believes people are out there using bitcoin as a convenience? Who thinks that it is end users who are driving up the price? Adam is 100% correct when he says it is the little fish that make the market, because in the end all that matters is if people like it and use it. So let sum it up.. people cant get it, dont know what it is, dont know why you would need it, think that is a scam, think that it is pyramid scheme, and the only people after it are customers on the SR and greedy assholes.    

I can never figure out why would people who claim they simply do not believe Bitcoin would have a future stay in this forum and waste their time here in the first place, are there not enough forums on the internet, or is it the old shit spouted by people like Nagle, that they simply could not sit back watching people losing their money without giving their advice?

You have it all wrong I love btc. Check out my stores on facebook bitcoin friends and litecoin friends. I have lost sleep thinking about a world were the money power was returned to the people. That is why I am hating right now. Because of the experiences I have had on OTC and dealing with scammers (about 5 a day) between ebay and facebook. I believe in the idea, to me it is all about changing the world, that's why I bitch and complain, about speculators, scammers, hoarders, and douches. Because ever third of forth customer tells me how they were scammed or how someone tired to scam them. They get to me a lot of times and are mad and disgusted and say I just need this one fucking coin and them I am done with BTC. So, know I am a believer in the idea and hate seeing you guys ruin it.   

Pfft, and I know it's far easier to be contacted by scammers on the internet(those who have never received a Nigerian 419 letter are free to raise your hands, not to say in the real world you can never spoof a real store checkout counter) than in the offline world, so doing business on the internet must have been ruined as well, Jesus.

And yeah, you listed hoarders and speculators along with scammers, I don't even know what to say.

Maybe a little harsh, but all are market destroyers. @Adam "In addition, you preserve capital by selling your security when it starts downtrending. You don't know where or when a downtrend might end" Barbara Rockafeller. If I had held that long I would have sold too.   

[oakpacific]

I'm just pissed off because i sold on BOTH bear traps....

Why would you be pissed? Who cares you made good moves in my opinion. It might edge higher but what do you care you hedged against system failure. If you bought in at 5, 13, 17 and sold off at 22 you made a good call. It was a hell of a dip followed by hell of a bounce. Everyone should know that this is not the price. I sell coins to the public. I talk to almost every person I come in contact with about BTC not one person has said they have heard of it before. I have handed out around 300 business cards and explained what it is and what it is used for, not one person bought BTC from that. We I first started selling BTC on ebay the price was 13.5 or so and i had a lot of customers come on board the week before it started this run up sales had been slow.

As for btc being useful, what a crook of shit. There is no market for btc or availability. Who in their right mind believes people are out there using bitcoin as a convenience? Who thinks that it is end users who are driving up the price? Adam is 100% correct when he says it is the little fish that make the market, because in the end all that matters is if people like it and use it. So let sum it up.. people cant get it, dont know what it is, dont know why you would need it, think that is a scam, think that it is pyramid scheme, and the only people after it are customers on the SR and greedy assholes.    

I can never figure out why would people who claim they simply do not believe Bitcoin would have a future stay in this forum and waste their time here in the first place, are there not enough forums on the internet, or is it the old shit spouted by people like Nagle, that they simply could not sit back watching people losing their money without giving their advice?

You have it all wrong I love btc. Check out my stores on facebook bitcoin friends and litecoin friends. I have lost sleep thinking about a world were the money power was returned to the people. That is why I am hating right now. Because of the experiences I have had on OTC and dealing with scammers (about 5 a day) between ebay and facebook. I believe in the idea, to me it is all about changing the world, that's why I bitch and complain, about speculators, scammers, hoarders, and douches. Because ever third of forth customer tells me how they were scammed or how someone tired to scam them. They get to me a lot of times and are mad and disgusted and say I just need this one fucking coin and them I am done with BTC. So, know I am a believer in the idea and hate seeing you guys ruin it.   

Pfft, and I know it's far easier to be contacted by scammers on the internet(those who have never received a Nigerian 419 letter are free to raise your hands, not to say in the real world you can never spoof a real store checkout counter) than in the offline world, so doing business on the internet must have been ruined as well, Jesus.

And yeah, you listed hoarders and speculators along with scammers, I don't even know what to say.

Maybe a little harsh, but all are market destroyers. @Adam "In addition, you preserve capital by selling your security when it starts downtrending. You don't know where or when a downtrend might end" Barbara Rockafeller. If I had held that long I would have sold too.   

This gonna be exactly the kind of people who will flock into this world without regulations, think about the "Wild West". There is no access restriction, so why shouldn't the bad guys, and the most adventurous people come? You can't have it both ways. If you are hating it because it's not what you expected, you probably just put your hopes up too high.

[sublime5447]

Maybe so but I would say I am short term pessimist long term optimist. I think the idea is sound, just lots of obstacles to overcome. I knew when I decided to get into BTC that it was going to be full of thefts, drug attics, gamblers, and speculators, but so is life. I guess the real root of the problems is I dont like people.   

[molecular]

The silly thing is, we're already at a new all time high in market cap and every penny upward just increases it. This has happened while adam has been trying without any success to talk the price lower.

$32 is meaningless, BTC is already worth more than it was then.

$32 is not meaningless. $32 will trigger all kinds of journalists opening their mouth and blabbering about how bitcoin is an attack on the banks and nationstates of the world by dangerous drug gamblers in alpaca socks. Those are going to be the same dudes that said "bitcoin is dead" in fall 2011.

[molecular]

you might say i have a funny way to hedge.. but if i win the bet i will get 3BTC +  buy back below 15 maybe even below 10 fuck that would be sweet  

Doesn't a hedge work the opposite way of the main gamble?

[Spaceman_Spiff]

you might say i have a funny way to hedge.. but if i win the bet i will get 3BTC +  buy back below 15 maybe even below 10 fuck that would be sweet  

Doesn't a hedge work the opposite way of the main gamble?

Yes, I believe this is called 'doubling down' instead .

[oakpacific]

you might say i have a funny way to hedge.. but if i win the bet i will get 3BTC +  buy back below 15 maybe even below 10 fuck that would be sweet  

Doesn't a hedge work the opposite way of the main gamble?

Yes, I believe this is called 'doubling down' instead .

I said same thing before, Adam has got some cute interpretations of certain financial terminologies.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

you might say i have a funny way to hedge.. but if i win the bet i will get 3BTC +  buy back below 15 maybe even below 10 fuck that would be sweet  

Doesn't a hedge work the opposite way of the main gamble?

Yes, I believe this is called 'doubling down' instead .

I said same thing before, Adam has got some cute interpretations of certain financial terminologies.

Indeed 

[molecular]

While we're at it. Can someone explain to me how hedging works in general? If you hedge against a bad outcome of a bet/gamble, doesn't that hedge also anihilate the good outcome?

[Spaceman_Spiff]

While we're at it. Can someone explain to me how hedging works in general? If you hedge against a bad outcome of a bet/gamble, doesn't that hedge also anihilate the good outcome?

I believe the term "hedging" is also used for strategies in which you make sure that your loss never exceeds a certain amount ( for example in case of a short), but I am no expert.

[oakpacific]

While we're at it. Can someone explain to me how hedging works in general? If you hedge against a bad outcome of a bet/gamble, doesn't that hedge also anihilate the good outcome?

Normally you would use options, there is also so-called "risk-free hedging" strategy  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-Scholes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_hedging



As for Adam's bet, I think he should bet against what he believes to be the trend, i.e, if he sells he should bet for the price rise, etc.

[Gyrsur]

"Der Begriff Sicherungsgeschäft, Kurssicherung oder Hedgegeschäft (kurz Hedging; von engl. to hedge [hɛdʒ], „absichern“) bezeichnet ein Finanzgeschäft zur Absicherung einer Transaktion gegen Risiken wie beispielsweise Wechselkursschwankungen oder Veränderungen in den Rohstoffpreisen. Die Person oder Unternehmung, die eine Transaktion hedgen möchte (auch Hedger genannt), geht zu diesem Zweck eine weitere Transaktion ein, die mit der zugrunde liegenden Transaktion gekoppelt ist. Dies findet gewöhnlich in der Form eines Termingeschäfts statt. Ein perfekter Hedge eliminiert jegliches systematische Risiko, ist aber in der Praxis fast unmöglich."

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgegesch%C3%A4ft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_(finance)

EDIT: Sorry for german language but in my opinion it is better explained there.

[oakpacific]

I think someone is trying to use Mt.Gox as a escrow service.