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Author Topic: ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁  (Read 349407 times)
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MLM: Many Layers of Misery


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February 09, 2017, 10:15:18 AM


It's pretty easy to check the boxes yourself

1) No public mining address / no user selectable pool.
A cloud mining company that wont let you direct the hashrate to your pool of choosing and cant prove its actually mining bitcoins itself, is very likely a scam. There is no reason to hide mining address or not sign blocks. None.

FAIL

2) No endorsement from any asic vendor
Asic vendors will gladly make a simple post to show the company in question is a significant customer of theirs. Its free advertisement for them and it helps their customer grow their business, so there is absolutely no reason they wouldnt. If a (cloud) mining company cant get any asic vendor to post such endorsement, you should assume they dont have any hardware to mine with.

FAIL

3) No relevant pictures of their hardware and datacenter
There is no reason not to provide such pictures, except of course, if there is nothing to take pictures off. Mind you: pictures can be faked. Picture dont prove current ownership. So like all criteria listed here, by themselves they are by far insufficient proof.

PASS

4) Open ended IPO / fractional reverse mining risk
Unless the cloud mining is operated by the asic vendor himself, you can not sell an unlimited amount of hashrate. Hardware takes (usually a long) time to order, arrive and deploy. Any company that doesnt limit sales or make public how much hashrate they sold vs what they have (provably) deployed should be considered  suspicious.

FAIL

5) Referral programs and social networking
Referral programs, especially ones that pay almost 10%, are a huge red flag. The mining market is cut throat with razor thin margins. No real company can afford to pay 10% referrals on below market cloudmining prices. Referral programs almost always serve only to feed the ponzi and provide financial incentive to posters to lie about the true nature of the company. Never trust anyone with a referral link in their sig.

PASS/FAIL*

6) Anonymous operators
If the operators are hiding behind whoisguard, provide no provable identity and especially when, like in some cloudmining cases, they use demonstrably false ID or company registration information, you have to be nuts to trust them with your money.

PASS

7) No exit strategy
If you cant sell your position, you cant get your money out. Thats the ideal case for a ponzi and allows it to run for a  long time.

PASS1

8 ) Bonus point for "guaranteed profit"

PASS


On the face of it then, they do pretty well.
*The pass/fail on this is because Dragon seem to have changed their structure since appearing to be a naked MLM product, as described here in June last year.

So that's the trees, what about the wood?
Things have changed a lot in the two years+ since Puppet started this thread. Difficulty and price have sky rocketed and as you full well know from Genesis discussions, the main question about cloud mining is the ratio of gross earnings to maintenance deductions, and whether a contract or agreement has any convertable value.

Dragon don't detail what their maintenance charge is (would probably be a good idea to add this to the list as question 9).
1They do say that they offer the option to take delivery of your mining equipment. How this works if you buy a small contract is unclear. What would they deliver against a 540 Gh/s redemption?

Also since this thread started the MLM industry has discovered bitcoin mining. It's an ideal product for them in a lot of ways: they can baffle newbies with science, then offer to take care of all the difficult bits for you ("just give us your money"), payment in bitcoin allows them to hide, ROI's can be unofficially promised but never materialise, and they can just cancel contracts or make them unprofitable by adjusting 'costs' or terms without any legal comeback.

Dragon seems to be organized by a large South African based MLM operation with a pretty checkered track record.

Would I invest in a Dragon cloud mining contract?
I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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February 09, 2017, 12:50:15 PM

Thanks

Get a HUGE 3% discount with promo code: MOON @ Genesis Mining
https://www.genesis-mining.com
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February 11, 2017, 05:58:52 AM

As an ex-victim of cloudmining (HYIP), I think https://www.1hashmining.com is 99.99% a ponzi scheme. It shows up as a banner @ coinmarketcap
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February 14, 2017, 11:21:20 PM

As an ex-victim of cloudmining (HYIP), I think https://www.1hashmining.com is 99.99% a ponzi scheme. It shows up as a banner @ coinmarketcap

Yes, https://www.1hashmining.com looks like classic Ponzi system.
Probably most popular amoung scams website script, anonymous (impossible to confirm) location of headquarters and data centers.
Of course ridiculous interest rates and return on investment. 1.75% - 2.75% per day is impossible even with free electricity right now.
To run that farm, they would have to pay extra to that business, and I doubt that it is a charity.

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MLM: Many Layers of Misery


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February 20, 2017, 12:56:15 PM


Hardly worth dignifying with a post about, but just to get it in the search as a scam, please note mininghub.io /org and associated site way2cash.com (lol) are total garbage.

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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February 26, 2017, 07:41:17 AM

HashNest.com bitcoin cloud mining platform on BITMAIN. All cloud hash base on antminer. Electricity fee falling down to $0.07/kwh now

BITMAIN brand means credit protection.

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March 23, 2017, 03:20:46 AM

It's been a LONG time already since miningsweden collapsed; it should be moved to the "collapsed ponzi" list.
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March 23, 2017, 10:29:18 PM

It's been a LONG time already since miningsweden collapsed; it should be moved to the "collapsed ponzi" list.

It's been long time already when someone who know how fake "cloud mining services" looks like.. Even Poppet - who open this thread is not here. Information, and fresh thinking is our force against this kind of scams. If you see any kind of scam, just let us know!

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May 04, 2017, 06:28:33 AM

Has eobot been confirmed to be legit?

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May 05, 2017, 08:35:47 AM

Has eobot been confirmed to be legit?
The website still seems to be up but the fact that the service might still be runnin is no confirmation that it's in any way legit. Eobot could very much likely be a long running scam. Not to say that "cloud mining" isn't a feasible model to defraud bitcoin newbies with a seemingly legit business model.



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May 06, 2017, 10:12:06 AM

Still waiting for my payments or my boards from Ltcgear  Grin  Grin  Grin

Fucking "Chris aka Beekeeper" , biggest scammer ever  Undecided
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May 06, 2017, 10:17:24 AM

Please wake up people there is no online investment to earn money from only real world companies which have websites are real.
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May 07, 2017, 08:19:26 AM

i am interested in mining as newbie and this thread is easy to understand.
mining at this point is not wise? or is it better to wait for later moment when price is higher.
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May 07, 2017, 11:08:03 AM

i am interested in mining as newbie and this thread is easy to understand.
mining at this point is not wise? or is it better to wait for later moment when price is higher.

Are you interested in mining (doing it yourself), or cloudmining (having equipment hosted by others) ?

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May 07, 2017, 06:07:16 PM

Has eobot been confirmed to be legit?
The website still seems to be up but the fact that the service might still be runnin is no confirmation that it's in any way legit. Eobot could very much likely be a long running scam. Not to say that "cloud mining" isn't a feasible model to defraud bitcoin newbies with a seemingly legit business model.

On Eobot there is Visa Card Payment option, it seems to be valid - so the company seems to be valid (and not so profitable -> so the company seems to be valid  Smiley ).

Delete my negative trust, pls.
smartbitcoininvestor
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May 12, 2017, 09:58:08 AM

Has eobot been confirmed to be legit?
The website still seems to be up but the fact that the service might still be runnin is no confirmation that it's in any way legit. Eobot could very much likely be a long running scam. Not to say that "cloud mining" isn't a feasible model to defraud bitcoin newbies with a seemingly legit business model.

On Eobot there is Visa Card Payment option, it seems to be valid - so the company seems to be valid (and not so profitable -> so the company seems to be valid  Smiley ).

Eobot has been running for 4 years now and has its own dedicated mining pool and faucet. Would these two services combined with cloud mining make it legit?

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May 12, 2017, 10:06:33 AM

What about hashflare? I think they are big enough to deserve to being
considered here. I guess general opinion is that they are legit..
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May 13, 2017, 06:35:25 AM

Has eobot been confirmed to be legit?
The website still seems to be up but the fact that the service might still be runnin is no confirmation that it's in any way legit. Eobot could very much likely be a long running scam. Not to say that "cloud mining" isn't a feasible model to defraud bitcoin newbies with a seemingly legit business model.

On Eobot there is Visa Card Payment option, it seems to be valid - so the company seems to be valid (and not so profitable -> so the company seems to be valid  Smiley ).

Eobot has been running for 4 years now and has its own dedicated mining pool and faucet. Would these two services combined with cloud mining make it legit?
Nope
What about hashflare? I think they are big enough to deserve to being
considered here. I guess general opinion is that they are legit..
OP is AWOL for a long time, hashflare hasn't shown any signs of legitimacy based on his criteria though. The fact that it's been running for a long time doesn't make it a good candidate for being legit. There aer many examples of schemes that collapsed and went away with user funds.



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brobbel
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May 17, 2017, 02:40:29 PM

What about hashflare? I think they are big enough to deserve to being
considered here. I guess general opinion is that they are legit..
OP is AWOL for a long time, hashflare hasn't shown any signs of legitimacy based on his criteria though. The fact that it's been running for a long time doesn't make it a good candidate for being legit. There aer many examples of schemes that collapsed and went away with user funds.

But they invite you to visit their mining rigs. So yes, they are legit. Profitable? That's another story, but they do mine.
JessicaG
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May 18, 2017, 12:50:25 PM

What about hashflare? I think they are big enough to deserve to being
considered here. I guess general opinion is that they are legit..
OP is AWOL for a long time, hashflare hasn't shown any signs of legitimacy based on his criteria though. The fact that it's been running for a long time doesn't make it a good candidate for being legit. There aer many examples of schemes that collapsed and went away with user funds.

But they invite you to visit their mining rigs. So yes, they are legit. Profitable? That's another story, but they do mine.

Kindly note, though that they do invite to visit their mining rigs, that this is not the same as being legit (!)   Smiley

I have seen a few posts from people saying they were thinking about paying them a visit, but never actually saw a comment of one who actually had done so  Wink

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Tor Integrated & Secured
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