[ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official

[Gizfreak]

as it say on their forum ... the launch should be in March ... so it gotta be in the next week i guess

Together with the whitepapers yeah. I also read something like that.

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[seasonw]

So, does the whitepaper ready yet? It is end of March now... 

[fbarcelo]

I receive a message encouraging me to join discussion, but couldn't find any news here.

Any update about the project?

[Sandrine89]

Hi everyone! We're releasing the white paper this week. You will be notified on this thread, no worries.
We will also communicate more details about our presale very soon.

[Gizfreak]

Hi everyone! We're releasing the white paper this week. You will be notified on this thread, no worries.
We will also communicate more details about our presale very soon.

Looking forward to it

[koubiac]

The NeuCoin white paper is ready for review

The NeuCoin Project just released its technical white paper: “NeuCoin: the First Secure, Cost-efficient and Decentralized Cryptocurrency”. It is available as a PDF version on this link: neucoin.org/en/whitepaper

We hope that this white paper will spark the first honest and fact-based debate on the pros and cons of the two main consensus mechanisms used in peer-to-peer cryptocurrencies: proof-of-work and proof-of-stake. Bounties will be awarded for constructive feedback, see below for details.

Our white paper gives an in-depth analysis of the following elements:

Bitcoin faces mounting problems: mining consolidation, higher transaction fees in the long run if transaction volume doesn’t scale dramatically, and a misalignment of interests between corporate miners and Bitcoin holders.

The Proof-of-Stake consensus mechanism solves these problems thanks to two major changes:

• It rewards miners based on number of coins owned rather than amount of electricity and computing resources spent - effectively replacing the operating costs of proof-of-work mining with the capital costs of holding coins;
• Mining rewards are proportionate to number of coins owned and time held, making them akin to “interest payments” on the miner’s coin holdings.

Thus far, Proof-of-Stake has been dismissed by much of the crypto community based on the umbrella objection that there is “nothing at stake.” What is meant is that since proof-of-stake mining does not consume any outside resources (electricity, computing power), miners have no costs, so nothing prevents them from endlessly trying to commit double-spends, or mining on multiple branches, no matter how low the odds of success. Since there is “no cost” to behaving maliciously, proof-of-stake systems are unsecured and can’t even reach consensus. They ask, “how can you have security without paying anything for it?”

What proof-of-work proponents are neglecting to see is that proof-of-stake security does have a cost: the capital cost of acquiring and holding coins. The brilliance of proof-of-stake is that it turns all coin owners into security providers, and requires any would-be attacker to purchase a large amount of the currency to attempt an attack, which would be an attack on his own wealth.

Besides ignoring the reality of capital costs, proof-of-stake critics are also prone to depicting scary-sounding attack vectors against proof-of-stake - grinding through the blockspace, rewriting history with old private keys, long-range, pre-programmed double spends - without explaining the details of how these attacks would be conducted or demonstrating mathematically that they have more than an infinitesimal chance of success. The truth is, these attack vectors do represent valid areas of concern, so it is interesting to ask why the critiques are always theoretical and never concrete.

Perhaps by leaving the critiques abstract, without even mentioning Peercoin, NXT, Bitshares, or Blackcoin, etc., with all their different parameters, the point is made that proof-of-stake’s “nothing at stake” flaw is fundamental and nothing can be done to fix it. Or it could simply be that analyzing the odds of success of a given attack vector against a specific proof-of-stake implementation isn’t worth the effort. Besides, none of the existing proof-of-stake coins have published substantial rebuttals to the various critiques.

NeuCoin’s design answers the “nothing at stake” argument

To choose the parameters and features of its own design, NeuCoin began by researching and mathematically modeling all the potential attack vectors against a proof-of-stake cryptocurrency: double spends, history revisions, grinding attacks, and preprogrammed attacks. In the end, NeuCoin believes that it was able to architect a proof-of-stake design that defeats all these attacks and addresses all “nothing at stake” issues.

There are three critical elements to its design:

• High mining incentives: NeuCoin provides much higher mining rewards than existing proof-of-stake currencies in order to maximize the percentage of coins being mined at all times. The odds of success for all attack vectors in proof-of-stake are based on the percentage of staked coins that the attacker controls, so it is paramount to maintain a high percentage of all coins staking across time, which existing proof-of-stake coins fail to do. To further bolster mining participation, NeuCoin reduced minimum stake age to one day (from 30 days in Peercoin) and abandons the use of coin age as a factor influencing the probability of generating a block.
• Redesigned stake modifier: NeuCoin chose to adapt a version of BlackCoin’s stake modifiers, which floats over time, rather than use Peercoin’s design, which permanently fixes the stake modifier after the initial modifier interval. NeuCoin chose this design because Peercoin’s design is susceptible to preprogrammed long-range attacks. Moreover, the modifier interval and selection interval parameters were substantially adjusted to minimize the threat of grinding.
• Duplicate stake punishment: NeuCoin uses a client version developed by Michael Witrant aka “sigmike” (core developer of Peercoin and Technical Advisor to NeuCoin) that not only detects duplicate stakes so that honest nodes can reject them, but also punishes nodes that broadcast duplicate stakes by rejecting all blocks broadcast by the dishonest miner.

We hope to gather comments and questions from the crypto community as we consider this to be the first draft of our white paper. This work is meant to be useful for the crypto community as a whole and to highlight that there is a strong alternative to Proof-of-Work.

White paper bounty program:

NeuCoin bounties will be awarded by the NeuCoin Code foundation for all constructive input, both positive and critical, you will find details here: http://forum.neucoin.org/t/white-paper-bounty-program/
Valid contributions will be expected to be submitted at forum.neucoin.org 

[RealMalatesta]

NeuCoin bounties will be awarded by the NeuCoin Code foundation for all constructive input, both positive and critical, you will find details here: http://forum.neucoin.org/t/white-paper-bounty-program/
Valid contributions will be expected to be submitted at forum.neucoin.org 

In other words: Millionaires will distribute some crumbs...

[Sandrine89]

Also, here is an important update about our presale, it will begin in April 2015.
We'd like to give the crypto community the time to review the white paper - which is quite a piece to digest - before beginning the presale.
The precise date and all necessary information will be disclosed soon, I'll keep you updated as soon as possible.
If you have any questions, please ask away!

For more information on this, you can also join us here: http://forum.neucoin.org/t/presale-timeline

[BitcoinFX]

I have read the white paper for NeuCoin and whilst it is technically and historically comprehensive I found it to be somewhat lite on the economics.


3 Billion NeuCoin Pre-Mine

1,000,000,000 NeuCoin = Growth Foundation = i.e. Them

1,000,000,000 NeuCoin = Utility Foundation = i.e. Them and us ? Giveaway survey coins are allocated from here ? and/or ...

" Using an innovative proof-of-stake (PoS) design and economic model, NeuCoin is the first digital currency that will be strategically distributed to all participants who help increase its utility, growth and value:

    Some given for free to get consumers started with zero friction - and more awarded for recruiting new users
    Some given to companies that make NeuCoin more useful, such as content providers that accept micropayments in NeuCoin, exchanges, and processors
    Some sold to investors, with proceeds used to fund user acquisition and utility development "

  400,000,000 NeuCoin = Code Foundation i.e. Them ?

  200,000,000 NeuCoin = Founders "0.2 billion retained by founders for $1 million of work invested" - N.B. based on the pre-sale valuation of $0.01 = 1 NeuCoin  the Founder's got a 50% discount i.e. $0.005

  200,000,000 NeuCoin = Angels "0.2 billion sold to strategic angel investors for $1 million cash invested" - N.B. Again, based on the pre-sale valuation these Angels got a 50% discount i.e. $0.005

  100,000,000 NeuCoin = Seeders "0.1 billion sold to initial seed investors for $250,000" - N.B. Seeders got a 75% discount on public pre-sale value i.e. $0.0025 per NeuCoin

" In contrast to virtually all previous digital currencies with pre-mines, all NeuCoins held by the founding team, seed and angel investors are subject to strict re-sale provisions for five years (each of these holders may only sell 2% of their holdings per month in the first year, 3% per month in the second year, 4% per month in the third year, 5% per month in year 4, 6% in year 5). "

Are these strict re-sale provisions including or excluding all or any PoS interest ? How can this be verified ? At the initial 100% PoS rate this is potentially irrelevant, even without including the discounted value !

 

  100,000,000 NeuCoin = Public Pre-sale @ $0.01 = 1 NeuCoin (i.e. 1 million USD)

Thus, valuing the pre-mine at 30,000,000 USD

PoW "5 million coins per month during year 1 will be awarded through PoW scrypt mining."

   60,000,000 NeuCoin = Total PoW NeuCoin supply over 12 Months


NeuCoin Public Pre-Sale is less than < 3.33% of the total coin base

NeuCoin Total PoW equates to less than < 2% of the total coin base


So, " NeuCoin’s design answers the “nothing at stake” argument" , although we might conclude that our "something to stake" is a very slim piece of the NeuCoin pie indeed and that this is fixed from the outset.

However, NeuCoin could actually make for a very stable currency in terms of maintaining value in comparison to say Bitcoin.

Even with the initial 100% PoS percentage if the NeuCoin team is successful in attracting new NeuCoin'ers to the currency and building upon said utility, as they have put forward, then NeuCoin could hold its value overtime quite well and may potentially increase in value long-term as the PoS interest percentage return declines.

I don't see NeuCoin being a high or fast return investment though, as from what I have modeled I think anyone buying into the pre-sale would be very lucky to even double their investment within the first year on the basis of the above.

[BitcoinFX]

So, do the developers think that asking Scrypt miners to contribute hashing power for less than < 2%  of the total pre-sale (and PoW) coin base is actually a viable option for return ?

Is what effectively equates to a more than > 94% pre-mine really workable moving forward and in the long-term ?

Will the developers themselves buy or mine NeuCoin on this basis ?

 

[TrackCoin]

What about activities of Neu..

[Blazed]

Another pre mined cash grab yay. Let's see how many people dump coins into this crap   it amazes me how many suckers buy into this stuff every time.

[tbearhere]

Pos only?

5 million coins per month during year 1 will be awarded through PoW scrypt mining

Scrypt ... well that leaves 99% of us out. Darn scrypt algo. 

[provenceday]

so when can people mine this?

[RealMalatesta]

so when can people mine this?

As soon as they found enough braind dead who will do it.

[kahir]

any news

[Jewell]

Hi, this is Dan, one of the NeuCoin Project’s founders. I wanted to chime in with a few points.

First, I’m very encouraged to see the enthusiasm for NeuCoin from a lot of people here! Thank you! Sandrine will keep making posts on this thread but we'd also love to welcome you to our forum at neucoin.org (http://forum.neucoin.org/) where there are a lot more questions and answers.

Second, to the few who are calling this a "scam" (Sandrine told me not to speak to trolls but…) try visiting the People behind NeuCoin (http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#people) on our wiki - it speaks for itself. 

Third, heads-up that we'll be publishing a 25-page draft white paper on our PoS solution in the next couple weeks. It will be the first time that anyone in the community has comprehensively and mathematically addressed the objections commonly raised to PoS designs. We're looking forward to feedback on it.

Your pirce for this IPO is to high. Too big ammount of coins.


100 000 000 000 neucoins = (0,01 $ after 10 years) 1 000 000 000 $ -> small protif to early adopters - if you name the community. The cryptocurrencies with big ammount failed many times in 2 last years.

[tempus]

Who missed the train to lose his BTC in XPY can bury his money here.

[funxyzeit]

"Strategic executives", "Strategic Angels"
Exactly the reason to stay away from this. Satoshi would be turning in his bed/grave.

Make no mistake - these exec's are only interested in one thing.  No prizes for guessing what...

[Sandrine89]

Hi everyone!

Bitcoin FX, sorry it took me so long to get back to you about your questions, as they’re all relevant to any cryptocommunity member interested in the NeuCoin project. Here are a couple answers, if you feel I haven’t answered all your questions or would like me to develop a few points, let me know, I’ll be happy to do so.
I believe these answers will also address a couple other questions asked on this thread.

Are these strict re-sale provisions including or excluding all or any PoS interest ? How can this be verified ?

The crypto community will definitely be able to verify that the sale restrictions are respected - we will give you more details about this soon. The re-sale provisions are including PoS interest, though we will publish a detailed explanation of how this will be managed so that there is no misunderstanding.
Keep in mind that there is absolutely no interest for the founders or angel investors in not abiding by the sale restrictions, as it would create immediate distrust in the community and thus harm NeuCoin's short and long term value - which is not in the founders' and angels' best interest.

  100,000,000 NeuCoin = Public Pre-sale @ $0.01 = 1 NeuCoin (i.e. 1 million USD)

Thus, valuing the pre-mine at 30,000,000 USD

The initial presale price of $.01 equates to a market value of $30 million for the total supply of 3 billion NeuCoins that will exist at launch. However, at a price of $.01, it is important to note  that Coinmarketcap.com will initially indicate NeuCoin’s market cap at just $1 million, because Coinmarketcap.com lists currencies by “available supply” and the only NeuCoin available for sale at launch will be the 100 million NeuCoins sold in the presale (the rest are either sale-restricted or held by foundations). This will rank NeuCoin as number 33 in terms of market cap, with a lower valuation than coins such as Clams, ShadowCash, DNotes and CoinoUSD.

To clarify: NeuCoin’s market cap will be listed at $1 million by available supply vs $30 million by total supply. By comparison, Ripple is listed at $285 million by available supply vs its $890 market cap by total supply, and Stellar is listed $13 million by available supply vs its $270 million market cap by total supply.

Even with the initial 100% PoS percentage if the NeuCoin team is successful in attracting new NeuCoin'ers to the currency and building upon said utility, as they have put forward, then NeuCoin could hold its value overtime quite well and may potentially increase in value long-term as the PoS interest percentage return declines.

I don't see NeuCoin being a high or fast return investment though, as from what I have modeled I think anyone buying into the pre-sale would be very lucky to even double their investment within the first year on the basis of the above.

You will be able to gain very high interests on the coins you either buy through our presale or mine, thanks to our high PoS rates. These PoS rates were designed this way so that they can reward early adopters - and actually provide an interesting return on their investment.

Is what effectively equates to a more than > 94% pre-mine really workable moving forward and in the long-term ?

Our pre-mine, the 2.4B NEU donated to the three non-profit foundations, is actually what will enable the NeuCoin Project team to fund useful applications for NeuCoins and acquire mainstream users.
The Foundations will sell parts of this pre-mine to fund micro-payment platforms and incentivize the building of an ecosystem around NeuCoin
The Foundations will distribute some of this pre-mine for free to consumers in exchange for them to try using the currency (through our freemium model) or to learn about NeuCoin
This pre-mine will be totally distributed over time, and will be so in a completely transparent manner.

Don’t hesitate to ask any other questions, I’ll get back to you in a more responsive manner!